The Chris Cuomo Project

Episode: "Ian Bremmer Explains the New World Disorder"
Date: October 7, 2025
Guest: Ian Bremmer (Political scientist and founder of Eurasia Group)
Host: Chris Cuomo

Episode Overview

In this episode, Chris Cuomo welcomes geopolitical expert Ian Bremmer to unpack the state of global disorder—from the intractable Israel-Gaza conflict to the crisis of American democracy, the role of social media, and the vulnerabilities that new technology brings. Together, they explore why America’s “world order” is crumbling, the consequences for ordinary Americans, and what it will take (if anything) to right the ship. Throughout, the discussion moves between major international flashpoints and the psychological, technological, and civic challenges present right here at home.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Has the World Given Up on Middle East Peace?

[01:25 – 11:45]

• Social Media and Outrage:

  • Cuomo expresses frustration that voices who once called Israel’s campaign in Gaza a “genocide” are now oddly silent about pressuring Hamas for a peace deal.
  • Cuomo: “It makes me wonder if this is more about advantage than it is about peace… more about outrage and venting than peace.” [03:12]
  • Bremmer: Social media doesn’t reward balance or reason—it rewards outrage.
  • Global leaders (Canada, UK, France, Australia) have been publicly urging Hamas to accept a deal, underscoring that meaningful voices are acting behind the scenes.

• The UN’s Role and Credibility:

  • Cuomo and Bremmer criticize the tendency to reduce complex institutions like the UN to clickbait headlines.
  • Credibility of global organizations suffers from "suspect" reports (e.g. declarations of genocide without broad international consensus).
  • Bremmer: Secretary General Guterres refused to call it genocide absent a clear ICC ruling. [07:01]

2. America’s Descent and the Role of Social Media

[09:09 – 16:00]

• Disruption of Reason:

  • Cuomo likens America’s trajectory to the fall of Rome, exacerbated by platforms that “monetize our worst instincts.”
  • Social media amplifies selective outrage—people care dramatically about Israel-Gaza, but not equally about atrocities in China, Syria, or Nigeria.
  • Cuomo: “The driving thing is I have been conditioned to care about this by social media and I have not been conditioned to care about any of the other things.” [11:45]

• Why the Israel Issue Hits Hard in the U.S.:

  • Bremmer: The U.S. is deeply tied to Israel, both as a primary ally and as a result of American accountability (voters, taxpayers). Thus, Israel-Gaza feels more pressing to Americans than comparable conflicts elsewhere.

3. The Changing Narrative Around Israel

[11:45 – 15:58]

• Shift in Global Sympathy:

  • Israel, once seen as the oppressed, is now viewed as the regional superpower (“by far the strongest militarily, technologically”).
  • Younger generations perceive Israel as the dominant, not the endangered; “Brand Israel has taken such a huge hit.”

• Antisemitism and Shifting Values:

  • Antisemitism, already at high levels before October 7, is tangling with this shift in sympathy.
  • Israel’s internal political changes (Netanyahu’s government, democratic backsliding) also strain the U.S.-Israel alliance.

  "Now in the last couple years, we've actually seen that Israel is by far the strongest country... It's put them in a position where they no longer are deterred even by Iran." – Ian Bremmer [12:50]

4. The Influence of Money and Lobbying

[18:04 – 22:30]

• AIPAC & Influence in D.C.:
  • Both fringes (right and left) claim Israel “masters” America through lobbying. Bremmer pushes back—many lobbies (NRA, tech, pharma, crypto) exert comparable, if not greater, influence.
  • Bremmer: “If you're going to make that argument, you should make it in the context of the nature of how consequential that money and that influence is compared to other things which they never seem to do.” [18:44]
  • Israel’s intelligence-sharing with the U.S. adds real security value, making the relationship more than transactional.

5. Why Did Israel Shun a Wider Coalition Response to Hamas?

[22:30 – 29:45]

• Cuomo: Israel refused outside help after October 7 because they wanted autonomy (“they knew they could do it themselves, and they didn't want anybody putting their foot on the brake”).

• Bremmer: Leadership matters—countries led by embattled leaders (like Netanyahu, under indictment) or coalitions with extremists govern differently, often to the long-term detriment of national and regional interests.

  "There are other countries that aren't led by an individual who is under indictment... Something happens to him if he's out of power." – Ian Bremmer [24:17]

6. Radicalization and the Cycle of Violence

[31:23 – 33:16]

• Israel’s hardline response radicalizes not only Palestinians but also young Americans and Europeans.
• Bremmer: “My point here is, Israel is radicalizing a generation of Palestinians, and Americans, and also Europeans.” [32:21]
• The consensus in Israel is that peace is impossible as long as Hamas remains, while continued violence ensures mutual radicalization.

7. Exiting the Crisis: Political Realities and Amnesty

[33:16 – 35:59]

• Bremmer: For peace, Netanyahu might need amnesty—allowing leaders to relinquish power without facing ruin, paralleling the dilemma with Trump in the U.S.
• Weaponizing institutions leads to escalation, lack of peaceful transitions, and "one-party state" risks.
• Ethical governance means making “climb-down” possible to avoid incentives for leaders to cling to power at any cost.

8. Tech, Drones, AI—and New Security Threats

[35:59 – 39:24]

• Drones and Asymmetric Warfare:

  • Future conflicts won’t be stopped by yesterday’s defenses like the Iron Dome.
  • Bremmer: “They don't know how you can have a rally in an open air stadium and not have a drone swarm that comes in and kills lots of people... Luck is not a strategy.” [36:21 – 38:07]

• AI Influence:

  • Companies like Palantir position AI as the answer to modern threats—a self-serving pitch, perhaps, but governments are buying in.

9. The Decline of Reason and Rise of Outrage

[39:30 – 43:27]

• Cuomo: "It is over in our democracy for any kind of premium on truth or eloquence or intelligence. And we are now in an age where a comedian in a hoodie can be in a box next to you and be like: 'Yeah, I don't think he knows what he's talking about.'" [39:35]

• Bremmer: The only responsible position is to remain authentic and focused on your own agency, despite the decay of institutions.

  "At the end of the day, you're responsible for being authentic to yourself. I can't be responsible for what other people do." – Ian Bremmer [42:16]

10. The American Democratic Malaise

[43:27 – 54:52]

• Facing Collapse?

  • Cuomo and Bremmer discuss coping with daily political chaos and the “flood the zone” media tactics of Trump and his allies.
  • Bremmer: “The problem we have is that the media companies ... and the algorithms are defining what matters for a lot of people, and those things don't actually affect them.” [49:39]
  • Social media is built to exploit users, not serve democracy.

• Personal Agency vs. Systemic Failure:

  • Cuomo: “When we leave it to the individual ... we really do need help and guidance.” [53:34]
  • Bremmer: The importance of community (family, church, city, state) remains, but federal leadership is absent.

11. Decline in Leadership & The Outrage Economy

[54:52 – 59:39]

• Failure of Moral Leadership:
  • The national conversation is dominated by “outrage machines”—individuals and media figures chasing clicks via conflict, not context or resolution.
  • Leaders on the local/state level (e.g. governors/mayors) show more technocratic, people-oriented leadership than those at the federal level.

12. The World’s Response: Building Resilience

[58:35 – 61:39]

• Rest of the World Moves On:
  • While the U.S. escalates domestic outrage, other global actors (Europe, Brazil, China, etc.) are creating resilience to American volatility—diversifying trade, investment, and military arrangements.
  • Bremmer: “So while the Americans are responding with this escalatory outrage, other countries around the world are saying, we don't want to fight. We're not going to escalate... We're going to try to create more resilience.” [59:53]

13. America’s Identity Crisis and the Future

[63:03 – 65:39]

• Identity & Legitimacy:
  • The U.S. is not, and will not be, a manufacturing powerhouse again. The service and tech economy leaves much of the population behind.
  • Bremmer: “The United States increasingly...don’t know what the country stands for. They don’t actually believe in the system or the leaders. And when you lose that legitimacy...that's not sustainable.” [63:47 – 65:39]

14. Social Media: The Big Threat & Remedies

[65:39 – 73:15]

• Section 230 and Regulation:
  • Cuomo: Tech companies are “publishers” via their curation and amplification, and should be held responsible, not shielded by old laws.
  • Bremmer: If content is algorithmically amplified, the platform is responsible; bots should never be verified or allowed to pay for influence.
  • More sophisticated rules are needed—much of what appears as “debate” is actually being shaped algorithmically and by bots, with increasing dangers from AI-driven impersonation and manipulation.

15. Everyday AI Threats

[72:26 – 74:13]

• Cuomo shares an anecdote illustrating today's vulnerability: A friend almost fell for an AI “voice deepfake” scam imitating his daughter.
• Bremmer (half-joking): “Fortunately, this is not a problem for young people because they don’t take phone calls.” [73:47]

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Social Media and Public Debate:

  • "It's more about getting clicks than it is about peace. It's more about outrage and venting and fomenting than it is about peace." — Chris Cuomo [03:12]

• On Israel’s Brand Shift:

  • "Brand Israel has taken such a huge hit. The Israeli cabinet members have told me this directly in the past weeks." — Ian Bremmer [14:00]

• On Choosing What to Care About:

  • "I've been conditioned to care about this by social media and I have not been conditioned to care about… any of the other things." — Chris Cuomo [11:45]

• On the Outrage Economy:

  • "Cuomo: ‘Even though you are an expert… it is over… for any kind of premium on truth or eloquence or intelligence... a comedian in a hoodie can be on equal footing.'" [39:35]
  • "Your ability to have voice, even Solzhenitsyn in the Gulag, was able to show they could not take away his humanity." — Ian Bremmer [41:51]

• On Soft Power and Legitimacy:

  • "Soft power does matter. Legitimacy is important. You do need friends." — Ian Bremmer [25:05]

• On U.S. Democracy’s Fragility:

  • "The challenge is much deeper. The Americans increasingly don’t know what the country stands for... That’s not sustainable." — Ian Bremmer [63:47 – 65:39]

• On Tech & Bots:

  • "If you are promoting it algorithmically, you are responsible for that... Bots cannot [be verified]. It should be illegal to verify a bot." — Ian Bremmer [67:07]

• On Everyday AI Risks:

  • (On the AI phone scam) "Wasn't her. It was AI… And it gives me the tingles now." — Chris Cuomo [73:30]

Conclusion & Takeaways

• The world order led by America is coming undone at home and abroad—driven by corrosive outrage cycles, weakening leadership, the amplification of social media, and new technological threats.
• Israel-Gaza is a laboratory for modern outrage, selective empathy, and the dilution of reason and accountability in global affairs.
• The U.S. no longer serves as the world’s stabilizing force or the democratic beacon it once aspired to be; both institutional and personal agency are under threat.
• Remedying this decline requires not just policy or leadership change but a fundamental reckoning with how society chooses, amplifies, and acts on information, especially in the attention economy.

Final words from Ian Bremmer:

“At the end of the day, you're responsible for being authentic to yourself... That matters.” [42:16]