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- [00:01]
A
Ten years from today, Lisa Schneider will train in her office job to become the leader of a pack of dogs as the owner of her own dog rescue. That is a second act made possible by the reskilling courses Lisa's taking now with AARP to help make sure her income lives as long as she does. And she can finally run with the big dogs and the small dogs who just think they're big dogs. That's why the younger you are, the more you need AARP. Learn more at aarp.org skills Want to.
- [00:30]
B
Hear from one of the best brains in politics? Good, because that's who I have. I'm Chris Cuomo. Welcome to the Chris Cuomo Project. It's certainly not me. I'm talking about Mark Halperin. He now has these two booming businesses in digital media all around the political landscape. He's got his concierge politics, where people pay for big money for his newsletter and his conference calls where he is on. And all these people join in all these power players to listen to what he sees on the political landscape. Okay? And then he has a really cool business I think for the rest of us called two way, which is where people, anywhere they are, get to interface with people in the media and in politics and ask them questions and kind of a way of engendering more productive conversation. And I wanted Mark to come on. We worked together for a long time at ABC News and I've been watching his development on the independent level and in the digital space. And I wanted to talk about the takeaways from this election for all of us from one of the best minds in the business. Support for the Chris Cuomo Project comes from Shopify. Now here's why we all need this. I'm trying to sell my free agent gear, right? But how? How do I get it out to people? How do I make sure that it is an efficient and accelerated process to manage my inventory, the transactions and just where I'm putting them and how I'm getting them? That's Shopify. Shop pay is their product and it boosts conversions, meaning the rate of people seeing my offer to buy versus actually trans transacting. They can boost it up to 50% meaning way less carts going abandoned. So upgrade your business and get the same checkout untuck it uses. Sign up for your $1 a month trial period at shopify.com chrisc all lowercase Chris C go to shopify.com chrisc upgrade your selling today. Where shopify.com Chris C support for the Chris Cuomo Project comes from Factor Notice how the days are shorter but the to do lists keep getting longer. What are you supposed to do? Factors no prep, no mess. Meals Man, I gotta tell you, as we have gotten into the macro game and people are worried about the quality of their nutrition, you gotta start looking at factor Breakfast, to dinner, anything in between. Factor has easy, nutritious options to keep you fueled and feeling your best. You want your routine or you want to mix it up? It doesn't matter. Factor has you covered. They got 35 different delicious meals every week and over 60 additional convenience options that you can add to your box. Like what? Keto cookies, pressed juices, smoothies. So don't let the shorter days slow you down. Stay energized. America's number one ready to eat meal service is Factor. Head to FactorMeals.com Cuomo50 and use the code CUOMO50 and you'll get 50% off your first box, 20% off your next month. That's code CUOMO50@FactorMeals.com Cuomo50 50% off your 1st box, 20% off your next month while your subscription is active. Support for the Chris Cuomo Project comes from Oracle, even if you think it's a bit overhyped and I don't, AI is going to be all over. Whether it's self, dr, cars, molecular medicine, business efficiency anywhere. AI needs a lot of speed and computing power. So how do you compete without costs? Going crazy? Time to upgrade to the next generation of the cloud Oracle Cloud Infrastructure OCI OCI is blazing fast and it's a secure platform for your infrastructure, your database, application development, plus all your AI and machine learning workloads. OCI costs 50% less for computing and 80% less for networking, so you're going to save money. Thousands of businesses have already upgraded to oci, including MGM Resorts, Specialized Bikes and Fireworks AI, and they're offering to cut your current cloud bill in half if you move to oci for new US customers with minimum financial commitment. Offer ends 1231 24. See if your company qualifies for this special offer. Just go to oracle.com CCP for the Chris Cuomo Project Mark Halperin it's been a long time. Very good to see you. Very happy for the success that you're having on your own.
- [05:21]
A
Good to see you sir. I'm very happy for you. I wish I were as tan as you, but otherwise I feel okay.
- [05:27]
B
I don't know how much of the tan is tan and how much of it is my long Covid histamine response that reddens me up. I don't know, it depends.
- [05:36]
A
Whatever, whatever it takes. You've got color hypertension.
- [05:40]
B
So let's remind the few in this space that don't know where you are and what you're doing. Now, how has Mark Halperin established himself within digital media as a resource, a clearinghouse, a community for people who wanna know the inside scoop on what's happening in our politics?
- [06:05]
A
Well, I've got two businesses. One is for the wealthy and because the price point's so high, called concierge coverage. You can go to my Twitter account and see how to, how to access that. And that's a daily newsletter and a series of private conversations. But the business I'm really focused on building now is called Two Way, and that's for everybody. And it's a place to have the kind of conversations that you have where people from around the country can interact with political figures, journalists, politicians, strategists, but also hear from real people. And to interact in a way that is meant to have Trump supporters listen to Harris supporters and Harris supporters listen to Trump supporters. And rather than getting angry about it, learn from it. And Two Way is an extraordinary community of people who, some of them, they're not all moderate centrists and independents. A lot of them are very far left or very far right, but they're interested in having civilized, long conversations under our watch. Word of peace, love and understanding for you there.
- [07:05]
B
I've known Mark forever. We worked at ABC News together at a long time when it was a hegemon in the news business entirely populated with the greatest in TV journalism's history. And Mark was the political go to then. But now you're able to do what you couldn't do at a news organization which is to define the how, the modalities, the culture. And do you believe that conversation has come back into common appetites?
- [07:42]
A
I think for a lot of people it has. They might like TikTok, but they also relish the difference that comes from an hour long conversation. Most two ways are an hour long and they're serious in substance. Our average view time on YouTube is over 20 minutes. That's a long time for most people in this current media environment, but it exists because as you suggested, people want conversation, they want sophistication, they don't want to be dumbed down. And with respect to our friends in cable, a lot of cable is dumbed down. It's not as sophisticated as you hear if you went into a Manhattan bar or a Green Bay diner or a Colorado Daycare Center. It's more sophisticated. So whether you're talking about Joe Biden's acuity level or Donald Trump's lack of self discipline, people want a real conversation about that. And they don't want it to just be elites. They want it to be a broader based conversation. And again, that's why I think we continue to grow pretty rapidly, because it's a unique product. It's not one way, it's two way. Because people can talk to and back with people they see on tv, people whose work they read or who they hear on podcasts.
- [08:53]
B
Time is always a factor, how much time people want to spend on something. But I think tone and substance is what I'm hinting at a little bit more. I talk a lot about how conversation is the cure, not just because it's alliterative, but the division has just gotten exhausting. Right. We got Thanksgiving coming up and everybody's talking about who they're not inviting. And it just seems to me that just from a pragmatic standpoint, it seems like division's kind of run its course. Like people can only get so angry in that there is an emerging appetite to listen to people and talk with people you do not agree with.
- [09:33]
A
Yeah, I would say you're absolutely right. Two Way is pretty new. One of the most heartening things that's happened so far is we've had so many of our Harris voters say, I'm less upset than my friends who voted for Harris. And I'm less upset because I've listened here to long conversations with Trump supporters for months about why they were voting for Donald Trump. And they weren't white nationalists and they weren't Nazis, they weren't fascists, and they weren't people who wanted big tax cuts because they're rich. They're people who had problems with the Democratic Party and who saw in Donald Trump what he had on offer, better solutions. So it's. It's not about Kumbaya, although I'm for that, too. It's about understanding intellectually, emotionally, as Americans. What? Why? Why things seem so different to two different people. You and I both know so many people who can't imagine voting for Donald Trump. And I find it hilarious how many people I meet in Manhattan, in Washington, I say, what friends do you have who voted for Trump? And they say, none. None. That's incredible. And they said, well, maybe, maybe I do. I just don't know. Well, if you do, you should find him and talk to them and try to understand, because he won and Even if he lost. You know, I say this to people, and I said it during the campaign. Trump's going to get 47% of the vote. He might get 50, but he's going to get at least 47. You should be intellectually curious as an American as to why those people are about to do something that you say you can't imagine anyone doing.
- [11:10]
B
Now, the answer. Let's start with what the answers are and kind of do a regressive analysis on it. The main answer you'll get is, that's right, Mark. 47% of this country is racist, sexist, bigoted, and now we know it, because Trump has won twice. What do you say?
- [11:30]
A
I don't know what the percentage of Trump voters who are racist and bigoted are, but it's not a majority. It's probably not a very high percentage at all. And again, just look at some of the people who voted for Trump and ask yourself, do you really think they're racist and bigoted? Trump derangement syndrome is a serious thing. It's very difficult for the people who don't like him to accept any flaws in the Democratic Party, which is one of the main reasons I think they lost. But to accept any of the positives in Donald Trump, and I think it's important for Trump supporters to say, as many of them do, our guy's flawed. Don't like the fact that he sat there on January 6th. Don't like the way he belittles people. Don't like the way he manages his mouth or his staff. They're willing to acknowledge that almost to a person, even people who work for him on the left, if you say, well, wasn't it a problem that the administration did nothing for three years about immigration? Or isn't it a problem that the president's mental acuity decline was so obvious and everyone around him said, we can't keep up with him. He's so sharp, they won't acknowledge it. And so I think part of the problem for the left is to say we can't imagine really, that everyone who voted for Donald Trump is a racist or fascist or bigot. It just. It can't be true. So we need to think about whatever the percentage is who fit those descriptions, and it's not big. What were the other reasons? Because most of them did not vote for Donald Trump because they're bigots.
- [13:10]
B
The second level of resistance is, oh, I'll tell you what the reason is. People like you, Cuomo, you normalized things that Trump did that would be completely Unacceptable in anyone else. One of my friends who's a big brain, very smart guy, said, no, no, no, it's not that. People know what Trump is about and voted for him anyway. They don't accept how he is. They accept it. They rule it out of theirs. And that's because it's been normalized and that's a problem. Do you agree with that?
- [13:45]
A
Yeah, I say all the time, the only thing harder than politically defeating Donald Trump is covering him as a journalist. He is very difficult to cover. It's impossible to not to some extent normalize him because of his skill and the rapidity with which he, the repetitiveness with which he does outlandish things. Lies, belittles, breaks norms that are not proper to break. I don't mind breaking norms that are not improper to break. It's difficult because the first three letters of news are new and on the 12th day he lies. It's very difficult to convince yourself as a journalist. Well, he lied for day 12, so it's the biggest news of the day. It's a real challenge. And I don't minimize the complaints of those on the left who say you do not call him out proportionate to the outrages. I don't minimize that at all. But what I also say is you're the party of a conspiracy with the press to cover up the Commander in Chiefs of the United States mental decline. That's a lot of normalizing. After he speaks to a dead congresswoman, you pretend it didn't happen, you make it a two day story and you never bring it up again. That's normalizing something that's super dangerous. More dangerous than Donald Trump and Mar A Lago. And when Democrats want to say, what about ism? Sure. No two situations are the same. I gave you one example of how Joe Biden is normalized. How about no press conferences? How about no interviews with the New York Times during the entirety of his term? How about normalizing that? How about normalizing? I could give a thousand examples. The point is no one's covered perfectly. Trump is particularly hard to cover. But you cannot blame the press for undercovering Donald Trump. I think what you can blame the press for is for covering him so hard that you force voters into the arms of Donald Trump. We had people on 2, 8 throughout the year who said, I don't like Donald Trump, I've never voted for him. I voted for Biden last time. I'm voting for Trump this time because the press coverage of his legal cases, trying to keep him off the ballot of The Vice President of the United States. He's talking about normalization, saying that Donald Trump said good people on both sides, that Donald Trump said there'd be a bloodbath in America if he won. These are in her stump speech every day. They're falsehoods, they're lies. They're simply not true. I don't know if she knows they're not true or not. But again, you talk about normalization, that normalization produced votes for Donald Trump.
- [16:33]
B
Yeah, I think that's the correct synthesis. The people. I know a lot of people who voted for Trump. I got a ton of shit for writing in my brother. I just believe it was funny how many people were upset about that. Of course, all on the left. The Trumpers don't care because they won. But my point was the choices are unacceptable to me. America should do better than Trump and Harris. And I knew she was going to win in New York City anyway. I mean, even though she got a record low since Dukakis, I think the synthesis that you make is proper. Because it's not that people look at Trump and ignore what is so fucking obvious about him, because we cover it all the time. It's that they say, you know, the people who are outraged by him are really not that much better than him. These politicians lie. They use the system to their own benefit. They used it against him. They say he's a threat to democracy, and then they subverted democracy with how they picked Harris. You know, there is a feeling among people who don't love how Trump is, who also don't love who's telling them how bad Trump is. I think that's part of it also.
- [17:37]
A
Yeah, I think I totally agree with what you said. There's one exception, which is convincing tens of millions of people that the election was stolen in 2020. I consider that to be egregious and of a magnitude of destruction to our democracy that may be unmatched in the last 30 years. Outside of that, I can point to things that Democrats did that again. It's hard. It's hard to argue that they've got clean hands.
- [18:10]
B
And look, I would have no problem saying back to you. Well, then, other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
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A
Absolutely.
- [18:16]
B
He disqualified himself.
- [18:18]
A
It's egregious.
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B
And I agree. I have said many times here, News Nation, anywhere else, I think Trump has disqualified himself from consideration for President of the United States. That's my call, not yours. Not what I have to do for the audience. I gotta be fair. So when you look at this election, even though I would suggest that Democrats should have been able to beat Trump in this election, especially when you look at how the polls weren't really off. They just lost every close call that there was in the Electoral College. What is your take on what the lessons are for the Democrats?
- [18:54]
A
Well, I think there's some, there's some idiosyncratic things. Joe Biden should never have run. He really shouldn't have run in 2020, but he certainly shouldn't have run for reelection and she shouldn't have run when, when Joe Biden called her and said, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm not going to run, maybe Steve should have said, you know what, I'm not going to run either because I can evaluate my capacity to beat Donald Trump in 100 days and I'm not the right person. There may not be someone better, but I know it's not me.
- [19:22]
B
Why, why would she, why should she have thought that?
- [19:24]
A
Well, not because she's a woman and not because she's not white and not because she shouldn't be ambitious, because she should know herself as well as I do in terms of knowing her. And I don't know her all that well. I've known her a long time. She's not good at making difficult choices under pressure. That is the job description of president and presidential candidate. And she should have said, this is going to require a lot of very difficult decisions about how to talk about the Biden Harris record. The biggest vulnerability Joe Biden had, besides his loss of acuity and his age was our failed record. Anyone else isn't going to have to defend the Biden Harris record. Maybe Pete Buttigieg would a little, but not the same way. And she should have said to herself, I think I'm not good at making difficult choices under pressure and trying to figure out how to explain why the country should vote for me as part of an administration where they think the country's on the wrong track is going to require making a lot of difficult decisions under pressure and I shouldn't do it. That's what I think she should have done. So those are two lessons. He shouldn't have run and she shouldn't have run. I think the bigger issue, and people say it's economics, it's this, it's that. Ronald Reagan talked about a three legged stool. One leg was national security, one leg was economics, one was social, cultural. I think the Democratic Party has allowed Donald Trump to take the majority position on all three legs. Now national security has flipped from the Reagan days, because now the dominant position is end the forever wars. But I think she got caught up in the forever wars and being tagged with that. To economics, inflation, obviously, but also an economic theory of the case. It wasn't really discussed very much by the press, but Joe Biden had brought the economy back by spending a ton of money and having all these government programs. A lot of Americans don't like that. And then on the cultural stuff, yes, abortion, better for the Democrats, but some of these other issues, trans immigration, which is also of course an economic issue. The Democrats let Donald Trump become a centrist. I would say the biggest failing of the media in covering Donald Trump and it lulls the Democrats into this. Of all the failings, they say he's just appealing to his extreme MAGA base. Well, it turns out the extreme Maga base is 50% plus. Okay, the extreme MAGA base, yes. A lot of what he talks about, including the dog whistles, appeals to people who consider themselves maga, but on the three legged stool, stop the forever wars, deal with inflation, close the border, more energy production, less regulation, no trans athletes in women's sports. On all those issues, Donald Trump is not appealing to the extreme mega base. He's appealing to the center. And so the lesson for the Democrats is figure out that in fact you've moved so far to the left on all three issues that you can't compete even against someone as unpopular as Donald Trump. And how are you going to have positions on those three legs that are in fact more appealing to the American people?
- [22:40]
B
Do you think if it wasn't Trump, it was Haley, that she would have won and Buy More?
- [22:49]
A
No, I think she would have lost.
- [22:51]
B
Had to be Trump didn't have to.
- [22:53]
A
Be it just running for, you know this well, running for president is not as easy as it looks. And these people like Gretchen Whitmer or Governor Newsom or Governor Murphy or Ron DeSantis, like just being a governor or just being a senator and having some presence on the national stage does not mean you can build the aircraft carrier, raise $2 billion, have issued positions, hire the people, go on different media. It's not as easy as it looks. And I think if you look at Nikki Haley's performance, Look at Ron DeSantis performance, look at Gretchen Whitmer's performance, I can't tell you that they'd be good. Donald Trump was one for two. Now he's two for three. That's hall of Fame batting average. And until you prove you can do it, my assumption from watching many people try and fail, you can't do it.
- [23:51]
B
That's interesting, because I had been wondering. Trump is so unpopular, there's so many people who really didn't want to have to vote for him. Just think about it. All the campaigns that you and I have covered, the idea. Imagine the proposition being like, God, I really don't want to have to vote for this person, but I think I have to. I mean, that is a very unusual standard for people. You know, usually it's like a 50.
- [24:20]
A
Plus split, and it makes it easy to say, if it had been Nikki Haley or any other Republican, they would have won easily. I don't know what states they would have won that Trump didn't win. You know, I don't think Nikki Haley was going to win New Jersey. And again, it's like an athletic competition. They're not played on paper. This is why people who do these models, these political models who know nothing about either campaigns or politics are playing at a level of abstraction that I think makes their models silly. It's about the blood, sweat and tears and the guts. I'll personalize it. Your dad was an incredible politician. He was an incredible governor, incredible civic leader. He toyed. He toyed in 1992 with running. He had a plane on the tarmac ready to fly him to New Hampshire. He might have been spectacular, but we'll never know because he never tried. And it's not the same as anything else.
- [25:16]
B
I agree, and I'll take it a step farther. One of the things you have to have, I think, to win, if you don't have this, you can't. If you do, you still may lose. You have to believe you're the best person. And that is absolutely a form of arrogance. No matter what good place, it's coming from my father. I mean, you knew him, but my father did not have that. The worst thing you could do was compliment that guy. He was pathologically humble, and he did not think he was good enough to be President of the United States. And I remember people saying to him, even in 88, wow, look at this guy Clinton, who ran, you know, and then in 92, Clinton's running, well, you think he's better than you. And he would literally wince like it was something that's for him to decide. That's for him to decide. I decide for me. I'm governor of New York. I have a responsibility here. I don't know about those ambitions. And he did the same thing with the Supreme Court. Now, just for a little Cuomo lore, that's where Father and son divided on both levels, Big brother and me. My father should have said yes to the Supreme Court. His reasoning for not doing it was, I'll never be able to make a speech again. And even I, as a little pisser at that time, was like, that's bullshit. These guys speak. You know, he knew Nino Scalio. You know, he knew Nino, Nino Scalio. Well, he gave speeches all the time, that guy. And that was a mistake. But you are right. You gotta think you can do it. And people underestimate that. I guess the theory of the case is that the grievance movement, the desire for disruption, is what carried Trump. And that was going to be there whether it was him or not. And if it had been somebody who was more palatable, it may have even been a bigger wave.
- [27:05]
A
I just don't think anyone else in the party right now captures that movement, energizes it, gives it voice the way Trump does. And Nikki Haley sure doesn't. Maggot does not like Nikki Haley. You know, there are other leaders of the MAGA movement, but Trump is. I've often said, and I take heat sometimes for saying it, Trump's the second best presidential candidate I've ever covered after Bill Clinton. Better than Obama, better than Bush 43. And I say that because he is so unpopular, and yet he somehow has been able to win two of three and almost won the third because he has an incredible high human intelligence level, an incredible fingertip feel for the mood of the country, and a drive to win. That's vital. You have to wake up every day and say, what are the 10 things I need to do today to get elected president? And if one of the things on the list is you need to gnaw through the handcuffs that have you chained to a fence, you need to gnaw through the handcuffs and Trump will do it. And I don't think there's any evidence that Nikki Haley or Ron DeSantis or Gretchen Whitmer or Gavin Newsom will gnaw through those handcuffs. Maybe someday they will, but I haven't seen it yet.
- [28:14]
B
Support for the Chris Cuomo project comes from 120life. I've already told you, I believe in this because we have high blood pressure in my family, and we have gotten it under control. And part of the reason is 120Life. 120Life helps you manage blood pressure. And by the way, it's not just for high blood pressure. It's also beneficial for those with diabetes. It's a very valuable tool for overall health it's endorsed by hundreds of doctors, trusted by health care professionals, hundreds of doctors recommending it. It provides visible, measurable changes in blood pressure. How do you know? You just use a simple monitor. You can buy one at the drugstore and you track it yourself for a limited time. If you try 120Life, you will save 20% off. Use the code CHRIS20 at checkout at 120Life.com 120Life offers a risk free trial with a full refund. If you don't see lower numbers in just two weeks. Two weeks you get your money back. How do you lose? And it tastes good. So it's not like you're going to not enjoy the process. Go to 120lif.com and use the code C H R I S20 and you get 20% off. There's nothing to lose except your high blood pressure numbers. Go to 120life.com and use the code CHRIS20. You get 20% off and free shipping. Today, support for the Chris Cuomo project comes from AG1. So holidays, you know what happens? You fall off the grind, you fall off the routine. That's why AG1 has been with me for so many years. Why? Because it's simple. You're one and done. It's just a scoop in some water for me, warm water. But you can put it in anything you want. And just like that, you've absorbed all the nutrition that you need to keep you on track. And AG1 is running a special Black Friday offer for all of November. So this holiday season, try AG1 and think about giving it to somebody else. The holidays are a great time to get yourself into better shape to focus on yourself, your family and doing what you can to do your best. And AG1 is part of that, certainly for me. And that's why they've been a partner for so long. And like I said, every week of November, AG1 will be running a special Black Friday offer for a free gift with your first subscription in addition to the welcome kit with vitamin D3K2. So check it out. Drinkag1.com CCP for the Chris Cuomo Project. See what gift you can get this week. That's drinkag1.com CCP what do you think the Democrats should do in this incoming administration to best improve their position?
- [31:01]
A
Well, I'm not in the business of advising candidates or parties, so I'll say this. The point of politics is not more politics. The point of politics is governing to improve the real lives of real people. So I hope that at least in the initial days and months, they'll look for opportunities to work with the administration and the majorities of the Republicans in Congress to find common ground to make the real lives of real people better. Immigration, access, housing. There's a number of areas where I think they could find common ground. And they should challenge Donald Trump and they should do it based on ideas along those lines. I'd like to see all governors, including the Democratic governors, treat their states as what was called in the 90s, laboratories of democracy, where they come up with innovative ideas that other governors can copy and can and can maybe make federal programs where that's applicable. I really do believe that we're better off if both parties look to be aggressively competing for the other side's votes. And that means the Democrats can't be the far, far left party that they've become.
- [32:18]
B
Yeah.
- [32:19]
A
Doesn't mean I don't like. I don't like progressives or I'm not interested in their ideas. But they've never been this left wing. They're substantially to the left of 1988 when Michael Dukakis lost.
- [32:31]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [32:31]
A
And Bill Clinton brought them back to the center with a range of more moderate positions.
- [32:35]
B
Yeah. Look, my father is, you know, he was mentioned numerous times at this convention. This is not his party. That cat was all working class all the time.
- [32:46]
A
Yeah.
- [32:46]
B
And anything that had to do with money in the system he thought was obviously poison and everything on culture, I mean, even though he was, you know, a noted Catholic, he was all about keeping it out of other people's lives. Keep it out. You know, and I agree with you so much on this one point, if for no other reason that they keep. The Democrats keep making the mistake of playing Trump slash the new GOP's game, which is like, for instance, opposition as a position. Like the idea of, we'll stop them, we won't do anything for them. We'll stop everything they do. That won't work for the Democrats. I think they should now, and they're doing it a little bit. Of course, Trump is tempting them to do it with Matt Gaetz and some of these other picks. I don't know that Lutnick as Commerce Secretary will freak him out the same way that Gates did. But they're taking the bait again and just attacking everything he does and everything he says and asking questions on the news shows. Not Democrats. But journalists are making a mistake also. How are you going to do the roundup? What about the families? What about this? They haven't even said what they're going to do yet. I had Homan on and he was like, well, no, I'm going to go after these. We believe it's 700,000, but the low number is 300,000. These people have felonies on top of the illegal entrance. I'm going after them. I said, well, that's not what Trump's saying. He said, well, I don't know what he's saying. I'm just telling you that that's the plan that we want to put into place. And that's what the President has said is okay. I think if they resist that, the Democrats and the media, too, by the way of just jumping on everything the guy says and wait for what he does, and on the political side try to collaborate as much, I think that's how everybody's best served, including their party interests.
- [34:26]
A
No, I agree with everything you said, Chris. You never once have heard Donald Trump or Joe Biden or Kamala Harris express outrage at people coming to this country illegally and committing crimes against American citizens. Never once. And most Americans are outraged. I haven't done a poll, but I bet if you did a poll and said President Trump wants to use the military to help deport people in the country who've come illegally and then committed a second crime against an American citizen, I think that probably gets 75% support. And so for these, just as a matter of politics and policy, for the media and the Democrats, without knowing the plan, as you said, but even if that's the plan, to scream hysterically about what a horrible idea that is seems to me kind of a mistake. Now, there may be civil liberties issues, there may be issues about the military that should be robustly, publicly debated, but to be hysterical about something that you said that hasn't happened yet, that would probably be popular seems like a bad idea to me.
- [35:29]
B
Yeah. And look, I get about not allowing the many, you know, America's about not letting the many to overrun the few. But you can't do the reverse either. You can't have the interest of the few be foisted upon the many. And you are right, they didn't do that because it was a narrative that they had to own. They had to own the status quo and they had screwed it up, especially on the border. They did not screw up the economy. Trump gets a pass on the economy because he gets to look at his administration without the pandemic. They never factor in the pandemic, but that's politics. And whoever makes the better case makes the better case. But I wonder, do you believe that this suspicion of him and his revenge agenda and all of the boogeyman that were waved in front of the MAGA voters faces? How much of that do you think comes to pass?
- [36:23]
A
I hope none. I don't really know. I mean, I've never covered an incoming administration about which I had so little sense of what would actually happen. I think if you look at his personnel pick so far, it's mixed as tea leaves as clues to understand what his agenda will be like. He wants to go down in history as a great president. He wants to be loved by the New York Times and loved by Vanity Fair as he always has. He wants to be on Mount Rushmore. He wants people to call him one of the all time great presidents. And so can he do that if his administration's about vengeance? Can he do that if he's constantly at war with the New York Times? I don't think so. So I hope that as lame duck who doesn't need a whipped up base after his nominees are confirmed very often I hope that he won't do any of that stuff and that the side of Trump that you and I have both seen, that's one of the most gracious and fun people who isn't interested in anything but bygones being bygones. I hope that's who the President is. But I can't rule out that it's closer to the Heather Cox Richardson conception of Donald Trump, who will use his four years to, you know, maraud through Washington and destroy the lives of those who he thinks wronged him.
- [37:53]
B
What is your best advice for the media in covering this administration? And what is your advice for concerned.
- [38:02]
A
Citizens for the media? It's as I said before, I think come clean on the failures of the last four years, the failure to the participation in a conspiracy with Biden administration to cover up his loss of mental acuity. Analyze the qualitative and quantitative data that exists about how unequal the coverage was, particularly the failure to hold Joe Biden and Kamala Harris accountable and the overreach on things like covering illegal cases against Donald Trump, which in some cases have some merit, but in all cases have fundamental flaws for the prosecution of a former president. So start by truth and reconciliation about the last four years and then cover him aggressively but fairly and ask every day, is what we're doing fair? Is this the way we'd cover a Democratic president who did the same thing, not harder, not easier? Those would be my basics. Purge the newsroom of liberals also would probably do that. Cover things fairly Be a lot of empty seats.
- [39:15]
B
Yeah, there'd be a lot of opportunity, a lot of open jobs. We'd have to. We'd have a lot of migrants into the news business.
- [39:21]
A
In terms of citizens, patronize the Chris Cuomo's of the world. Give them your consumer dollars that reward people who want to cover the country fairly without regard to party or ideology, but who do things that are both interesting and important to hold all powerful interests accountable to the public interest. Read a lot, listen a lot, be informed. Be open to your neighbor's point of view even if they support a different candidate. If you're on the left, don't be afflicted by Trump derangement syndrome. Don't tolerate people telling lies about Donald Trump when the truth is bad enough. Focus on the things that are true and worthy of consideration. Strong pushback. Give money to political figures who you think represent the future. That is not about tearing people down, but about building us all up.
- [40:16]
B
And sign up with two way.
- [40:18]
A
Sign up with two Way and then finally be an example for your kids. Teach your kids to be serious citizens and serious consumers of serious information and news and to recognize that they're part of their obligation as Americans, as human beings, as members of their community is to engage in the national town square in a constructive and non superficial way.
- [40:39]
B
What is the message at the Halperin Thanksgiving table this year or the Thanksgiving table that Halperin will be at?
- [40:47]
A
What is the message? Probably thank God daddy doesn't have to work so hard now that the election's over. It is.
- [40:57]
B
People do not know how hard it is, do they? And on top of you building businesses, which is not easy either. Look, it is good to see your success. I have been tickled for years listening to people discover you, especially on the concierge side and everybody wanting to get on your calls and hear what you're going to say. And it's great to see the success. I welcome you everywhere that I am. I'd love to bring you to the News nation audience. We're overweighted. Independent. Oh, one last thing on that. How cool was that that the first time in your and my careers independents or people who identified as that voted more that way than as Democrats and the same as Republicans. What does that mean? Last thing?
- [41:42]
A
Well, I mixed feelings about it. I like the fact that people are independent and not tied to the party. On the other hand, a lot of the strengths in American history of our democracy has come from our strong two party system. There are downsides to it, but there are some upsides as well. So I have mixed feelings about it. But I do think people it certainly at a minimum should put pressure on the Democrats and the Republicans to recognize that what they're selling is not particularly popular with tens of millions of folks.
- [42:08]
B
Mark Halperin, all the best to you with your concierge service for the big shots and two way, which is absolutely fundamental to getting us back to baseline where we have to be disagreement with decency. I'll see you soon, my friend. And happy thanks.
- [42:22]
A
Thank you. Happy holidays to you and your viewers and listeners and I'm very grateful to you for getting to visit. Thank you.
- [42:33]
B
So there you have it. We may not agree about the party system, but his analysis is something for any independent critical thinker, even though he he's got mixed feelings about independence, but that goes to how he feels about the need for the two party system. But you should be taking his stuff to head. I know everybody always says to heart, I say you take it to head as brain food about what he saw and what he doesn't see and think about it and what makes sense to you. What do you not agree with and why? Let me know and we'll get after it. As always, I'm Chris Cuomo. Thank you very much for subscribing and following. Very important. If you want it without the ads, I get it. You want the long Covid stuff. You want longevity stuff from my doctor who's killing it in that space. Weird thing to say about a doctor who's in the healing business, but there you go. All of it is right on the substack. But you have to subscribe. Following is not going to get you the content because I got to pay to make it and I want to use the money to help people get long Covid treatment who can't afford it. So think about subscribing. You get the podcast ad free and you get all that other stuff and my walk and talk series where I talk about ideas, about life and being your best self that I know work even if I don't work them for myself. And of course, I'll see you on News Nation 8:00 Eastern every weekday night. Appreciate you giving a place, an opportunity to have conversation as the cure, all sides of issues, everything discussed not as a food fight, not as a gotcha contest, but as an act of faith in a better future. All right, I'll see you soon.