The Chris Cuomo Project

Episode: Michael Eric Dyson & Gary Vee on Jesse Jackson and Algorithms
Date: February 22, 2026
Host: Chris Cuomo
Guests: Michael Eric Dyson, Gary Vee (Gary Vaynerchuk)

Episode Overview

This episode of The Chris Cuomo Project focuses on the passing and legacy of civil rights leader Reverend Jesse Jackson, featuring an in-depth, heartfelt conversation with Dr. Michael Eric Dyson. The second half segues into a broad examination of social media's effects on society and personal accountability, in conversation with entrepreneur Gary Vee. The episode wraps up with Cuomo fielding live calls on topics ranging from terminology in discussing sexual abuse cases to political transparency and the Epstein scandal. As always, the discussion is candid, passionate, and punctuated by Cuomo’s signature irreverence and drive for honest conversation.

Segment 1: Remembering Reverend Jesse Jackson

[00:00–11:00]

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• Jesse Jackson’s Unique Legacy

  • Dyson immediately contextualizes Jackson’s importance—not just as Dr. King’s successor in the civil rights movement after 1968, but as an international figure who stood for more than just Black America.
    • “He emerged as the heir apparent to Reverend King... and then emerged in the aftermath of that.” (Dyson, 00:34)
  • Jackson’s efforts to build economic power and inclusiveness—via the Rainbow Coalition—are emphasized.
  • Dyson shares personal anecdotes, including being present with Jackson in London after Nelson Mandela’s release, showcasing Jackson’s global respect.
    • “I saw him on that international stage, and... how many noted politicos from around the world... expressing profound admiration for Jesse Jackson.” (Dyson, 02:32)

• Jackson’s Personal Qualities

  • Cuomo and Dyson highlight Jackson’s physical and intellectual vigor—high eloquence, poetic resonance, and unwavering commitment to causes like voting rights.
    • “He was a man who only knew one speed that is full ahead with full force.” (Dyson, 04:34)

• Jackson’s Activism in Later Years

  • Even into his late 70s and 80s, Jackson remained fiercely involved, including risking arrest for protest efforts.
    • “Even into his late 70s and early 80s, he was determined never to be a relic or an ornament.” (Dyson, 04:34)

• Lessons and Succession

  • Cuomo shares a memorable last encounter with Jackson, who tells him, “Don’t be precious. You’re not there for them,” emphasizing legacy over personal comfort (05:56).
  • Dyson suggests Rev. Al Sharpton is the logical heir to Jackson’s mantle, outlining their decades-long connection.
    • “There’s no question that the man to whom that mantle is passed... is Reverend Al Sharpton.” (Dyson, 08:32)

Notable Quotes

• Michael Eric Dyson [02:10]:

  “Jesse Jackson became the heir apparent and then emerged in the aftermath of that. But when he ran in 1984 and 88 for the presidency, he proved... that it was for poor white working class people who were white as well.”

• Chris Cuomo [05:56]:

  “With great men, you take what you can get... It was so important to him that you fought what he saw as the good fight. He was not a party person... He was a real one. And what do we do with the loss?”

• Michael Eric Dyson [08:34]:

  “The significant figure who has inherited what Reverend Jesse Jackson has been about is Reverend Al Sharpton.”

Segment 2: Gary Vee on Social Media, Algorithms & Personal Accountability

[14:11–24:06]

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• Social Media as a Reflection, Not a Determinant

  • Gary Vee reframes platforms and algorithms as mirrors of users’ own search and engagement patterns.
    • “The algorithm responds to what you're consuming... So I view it as a blank vessel that is an exposure of your mindset at the moment.” (Gary Vee, 15:42)
  • He encourages individuals to seek out positive content and observe how their algorithm shifts in response.

• Personal Responsibility vs. Blame Culture

  • Gary stresses that people are quick to place blame rather than look inward. He urges moving “from pointing fingers to pointing thumbs.”
    • “We've become incredibly good at pointing fingers instead of thumbs.” (Gary Vee, 16:23)
  • Suggests people actively engage with content categories like happiness and hobbies to change their digital experiences.

• Political Content & Algorithmic Dangers

  • Cuomo challenges Gary Vee's optimism regarding the algorithm's neutrality, arguing that in political categories, platforms promote outrage and divisiveness.
    • “You are correct until we get into the category of politics. Because... the algorithm poisons them with outrage and provocativeness.” (Cuomo, 18:51)

• The “Sink vs. Well” Metaphor

  • Gary Vee describes his approach as focusing not on “the sink” (the daily noise and outrage) but “the well” (long-term, foundational improvement in people’s lives).
    • “I’m not going to do what I think everyone's doing, which is spending all their time on the sink. I'm going to spend all my time on the well.” (Gary Vee, 21:10)

• Constructive Focus

  • Gary Vee believes working on people’s self-esteem and financial literacy is more powerful than engaging in performative politics or outrage.

• If He Had a Magic Wand...

  • Gary Vee would have humans love each other like they love dogs.
    • “I would create a magic spell that took the way people feel about dogs and make it flip into them feeling that way about their fellow human.” (Gary Vee, 23:31)

Notable Quotes

• Gary Vee [16:23]:

  “We've become incredibly good at pointing fingers instead of thumbs.”

• Gary Vee [21:10]:

  “I'm not going to do what I think everyone's doing, which is spending all their time on the sink. I'm going to spend all my time on the well.”

• Gary Vee [23:31]:

  “I would create a magic spell that took the way people feel about dogs and make it flip into them feeling that way about their fellow human.”

• Chris Cuomo [21:10]:

  “God damn, it’s a piece of genius. So that’s what I’m talking about. Not on the sink, on the well.”

Segment 3: Listener Calls – Language, Transparency, and Cultural Accountability

[25:54–40:00]

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• On Language Concerning Sexual Abuse Victims

  • Caller Susan (Lansing, MI) urges Cuomo to use “young women” versus “girls” when discussing certain sex crimes. Cuomo responds that broad language is deliberate to capture full wrongdoing, not minimize it.
    • “The reason I say it the way I say it has purpose behind it. ... It's just wrong. If they're 17, it's definitely illegal and absolutely wrong... I want as broad a net as possible.” (Cuomo, 27:08–28:43)

• On Political Transparency & Epstein Files

  • Barb from Michigan questions why politicians, including Trump, have not released all information related to Jeffrey Epstein.
    • Cuomo draws a line between criminal and reputational issues. He emphasizes that the real unresolved question is “Who knew? Who protected him? Why did it go on?” (Cuomo, 30:41–32:02)
    • “That is not a DOJ conversation... But it is a conversation, and you’ve got to take it away from them.” (31:50)

• On QAnon and Pedophile Conspiracies

  • Kathy, another caller, claims QAnon “was on to something” regarding pedophile rings. Cuomo sternly rejects conflating QAnon and Epstein:
    • “QAnon is a bunch of psychos where they take a little bit of something that could be true, mix it with an unknown, and create an impossible. Okay?” (Cuomo, 36:24)
    • Explains that without a trial, “we may never know what [Epstein’s operation] really was.” (Cuomo, 37:09)

• On Epstein’s Death & Accountability

  • Both Cuomo and Dyson express incredulity at how Epstein could die in custody, but Cuomo criticizes the politicization and exploitation of the issue.
    • “That doesn’t mean he was murdered. That’s what pisses me off about Bongino... And there is a virtue and a vice in that, okay? I ultimately come down on the side of it being a vice.” (Cuomo, 38:54)

Notable Quotes

• Chris Cuomo [27:08]:

  “I do not deserve your criticism for not being respectful of the situation and who's involved... The reason I say it the way I say it has purpose behind it.”

• Chris Cuomo [36:24]:

  “QAnon is a bunch of psychos where they take a little bit of something that could be true, mix it with an unknown, and create an impossible.”

Memorable Moments

• Dyson’s Portrait of Jackson

  • Dyson’s eloquent, personal recollections of Reverend Jackson, especially the international impact and his enduring activism, are emotional highlights (02:32–04:34).

• Cuomo’s Story of Jackson’s Advice

  • The anecdote about Jackson putting his hand on Cuomo’s head, offering advice not to be "precious," is vivid and poignant (05:56).

• Gary Vee's “Sink vs. Well”

  • A metaphor for focusing on deep, long-term impact over getting lost in the churn of the moment (21:10).

• Magic Wand Wish

  • Gary Vee wishing people could love each other as reflexively as they love dogs—a moment both whimsical and deeply insightful (23:31).

• Cuomo’s Pushback on QAnon Logic

  • Cuomo’s fiery rebuttal of QAnon claims and insistence on rigorous, fact-based conversation stands out as direct and unapologetic (36:24).

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:00–11:00] – Michael Eric Dyson reflects on Jesse Jackson’s legacy
• [14:11–24:06] – Gary Vee on social media, algorithms, and personal responsibility
• [25:54–40:00] – Listener calls on language in abuse discussions, the Epstein case, QAnon claims, and broader societal accountability

Tone and Language

• Chris Cuomo: Frank, passionate, sometimes confrontational but always striving for intellectual honesty and depth; never shying from hard truths or personal vulnerability.
• Michael Eric Dyson: Eloquent, historically and philosophically rich, both intellectual and deeply personal.
• Gary Vee: Direct, optimistic, practical, and motivational, with a focus on agency and self-betterment.

This episode provides a multifaceted conversation about leadership, legacy, media, accountability, and how we engage (and often fail to engage) constructively with tough issues—as individuals and as a society.