A (4:11)

So the President of the United States has been pretty clear that he's not in the business of regime change. He's saying that the Iranian people have to rise, rise up. And there's some reporting that they're working with Kurds somewhat on the US And Israeli side to try to build them up. But do you believe that, you know, we're not seeing mass protests right now. We're not seeing what would look like the people taking that opportunity. Am I missing something or is there a context that matters?

B (4:44)

I think the important context, Chris, is timing. I think that the people of Iran have proven that they're not asking for their freedom or their country back on a silver platter. You covered it extensively. In January, they went out in their millions and more than 30,000 gave their lives for freedom. So I think that the people of Iran have proven that they're willing to fight for it. Just like, you know, the American founding fathers who fought for the freedom of the United States. The people of Iran too are willing to go to the streets. They're willing to give their lives for their liberty. But I think that they're quite clever about the timing of it. They're not going to go to the streets on any given day if they're going to face another massacre. So I think they're waiting, they're preparing, they're getting ready for the final battle. Prince Reza Pahdi, who called the people into the streets on January 8th and 9th, has told them, for now, stay home, take care of yourselves, make the necessary preparations. And when the regime's repressive apparatus has been sufficiently weakened, then it will be time to go back to the streets. And that's what's been the most interesting development in the past few days, Chris, has been the Israeli strikes and the continued strikes on the regime's Basij, which are basically street thugs who patrol avenues. They have checkpoints where they harass women for not covering their hair. They beat innocent bystanders. They prevent people from going to protests. So with those street thugs now being directly targeted today, with Ali Larijani, the person who was directly responsible for, for the January 8th and 9th massacre, being eliminated, we're getting closer and closer to that point. So the president is right. At the end of the day, the people of Iran will have to be the boots on the ground. They will have to rise up and take their country back. I think that they're waiting for the right moment to do so, and I do think that that moment is approaching.

A (6:34)

I'll talk to you about the role of the prince and your role, by extension, and what you believe is to come and why he wants to do that and why he's right to do that. But in terms of thinking through where we are. So you're saying they're waiting for their mom. There's organizing, there's activity going on. Okay, good. Which is the next question? Do they have a realistic chance, or do you have to pin hope on someone within the IRGC or the military saying, okay, we want to be part of the future. We're going to leave the regime behind, and would you trust that?

B (7:13)

Well, it's an excellent question, and indeed, I know we'll talk more about the prince in his vision later, but your question is a key part of how he sees the future and what he's actively working on. It's always been one of national amnesty, of avoiding the mistakes of transitions and regime change in our region. In the past, for example, the disastrous de Baathification process that we saw in Iraq, where the armed forces, the Republican Guard, the Ba'ath Party members, were just really in the first days of the fall of the Saddam regime, we're all sent home. You send home all the guys with guns, and those guys come back in a few days and they start to cause problems for you. So the transition plan that the prince and our team have put together is based on learning from mistakes from the past and ensuring that we don't repeat them. So he's called actively and repeatedly two members of the armed forces to defect, to join the people we saw in January. And we continue to see actually from the body of the armed forces, be it the police, even the irgc, the Basij people, refusing to show up to work, refusing to come into the streets and shoot their neighbors or their friends who are protesting. And I do believe that going forward, especially as more and more of the regime sort of arch criminals are eliminated, you will see an opening for some senior leaders who say, I don't want to go down with this sinking ship and I want to be part of a future Iran. And if they're willing to do that, the prince has said openly and repeatedly that they would be welcome to do so. Now, those whose hands are bloodied with the Iranian people's blood will have to pay, not in kangaroo courts, but in legitimate, transparent courts before the Iranian people for the crimes that they've committed. But there absolutely is an opening for those within the regime who want to leave to come and be a part of the future Iran. And the goal of the transition, that, as the prince envisions it, is stability and ensuring that those who want to be part of the solution can be. But the time to make that choice is limited. That choice is not one that lasts for weeks and months. They really have to make an ethical, moral, and national decision to decide that they're with the people and not with

A (9:24)

the regime, and to remind or maybe introduce people to the reality this regime is not organic to the country. What does that mean? When the Shah and the prince and his father, when that regime was deposed, these came in as insurgents. They are not organic to Iran. What does that mean and why does it matter?

B (9:54)

That's exactly right. I mean, we talk. So here's an example. We talk so much about the irgc, this. This. This terrorist organization that operates as a parallel military infrastructure in Iran. It doesn't even have the word Iran in its name. It's not the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, it's the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. From its very first days, this regime tried to. We're on the cusp of Nowruz, the Iranian New Year. One of the first things that Khomeini, the first supreme leader of this regime, tried to do was ban the celebration of Nowruz, an Iranian cultural heritage that has gone back 2,500 years, that transcends all Iranian religions. Iranian Muslims, Christian Jews, Zoroastrians, atheists, all celebrate it. But they viewed that. They viewed Iranian national identity and heritage as being in profound contradiction with their revolution. For them, it was not the Iranian revolution. It was the Islamic Revolution. And they didn't see themselves as being bound to Iran's borders. In fact, in the constitution of this regime, the regime and its officials are commanded to export the revolution. They see themselves as being the representatives of God on earth. They're not bound to Iran. In fact, they are commanded to try to overthrow neighboring governments and expand their revolution to those countries. So you're exactly right. It's not organic to Iran, and that's why people view it really as an occupying force. This is a very dark, dark parentheses in what is a beautiful history of Iran which has spanned 2,500 years. Iran, as you know well, is a diverse country, and it's been a Nation for 2,500 years. Unlike many countries in the Middle east, which were pretty much drawn up in the aftermath of the fall of the Ottoman Empire by the Brits and the French, I mean, Iran has existed as one nation with remarkable and beautiful diversity. And they've all been held together by their Iranian national identity. And that's what we're seeing a resurgence of now in the face of this regime.

A (11:57)

Support comes from the Freedom From Religion Foundation. Why? Because that doesn't mean that they're anti religion. That means that they are pro freedom, and that's the way our country works. We're a secular society. You can't have the government tell you what to believe. The First Amendment is not just about press. It's not just about protest, okay? You have the establishment clause in there, and that means that there is a clear line in our constitution between church and state. No faith gets to lead. We are not a theocracy. So how do we keep that from happening? When you look at these Christian nationalists and these fringe movements on the right, you need an advocate. The Freedom from Religion foundation is that advocate. They exist to enforce the boundary between church and state. Schools, courts, government. So all of our rights are protected because you don't get to force anybody to believe what you want them to visit FFRF US Chris, or just text my name Chris to 511511 and you can support the work of protecting our shared freedoms. So let's, let's flip it now. And the concern would be, you've had two generations of regime. The country is not as you remember it anymore. And while there are many people who oppose this regime, it's not all of them. It may not even be a majority. You got 90 million people. The regime has a lot of support. They've been in the streets also. And there's no guarantee that if the regime is taken out, it is replaced by something resembling a democracy.

B (13:45)

Well, I would disagree that it may not be majority. I think it's an overwhelming majority of Iranians who are against this regime. Of course it has some supporters. As you say, it's a huge country, 90 million people, even 5 or 10%. Let's say if this regime has support, it's 9 million people. It's a lot of people that we're talking about. And that's why the prince's narrative of national reconciliation is so important. The Iran that he's fighting for, the vision that he has, is one that in the future Iran, those citizens would be able to live peacefully as long as they are not taking up arms or trying to cause chaos or harass or attack their fellow citizens. So if they want to go in the future of Iran and vote for some religious, personal, religious party, they'll be well within their rights to do so. It's only within a national, democratic framework that all Iranians can live in peace and in coexistence. And I do think that after 47 years of brutal dictatorship and also brutal theocratic dictatorship, even the most pious of Iranians recognize that religious government is not the way to go. And that may be surprising for some people to hear about a country in the Middle East. But we have some of the most well known clerics in Iran. There's a gentleman by the name of Molavi Abdul Hamid. He leads the Sunni Islamic community in Iran. Iran's, as you well know, a majority Shiite country when it comes to its Islamic population. But this cleric in the Sistera Balustan province commands millions of supporters. And he now openly talks about the importance of secular governance. He effectively backed the prince's call for action on January 8th and 9th. So even among the pious, even among those who believe in the Islamic faith, in fact, perhaps especially among them, because they see what damage has been done to their faith by a theocratic dictatorship that has forced political Islam on people. They recognize that the solution to the future is secular democracy. And I think that that's something that the vast majority of Iranians are behind. And I think, again, they've proven it time and time again when they come

A (15:52)

to the streets, the fear of Islamism as opposed to of Islam, which is a distinction we're still struggling with in the west, certainly in America. Our current president, who's helping you outwardly and inwardly, was quoted as saying, islam hates us. And while it may not be a zealot theocracy, sympathetic population, it is overwhelmingly Muslim. And There is a concern that that leads you in one direction. You can't find me a state that is the majority Muslim, that is a democracy, and that doesn't have any of the problems that go along with Islamism. Why shouldn't that be a concern in Iran?

B (16:34)

I think it's because they've had, effectively Iranians have had this quite literally and it's terrible to say had that beaten out of them over the past 47 years. They have literally been beaten in the streets. Women have been beaten every single day for 47 years for refusing to cover their hair. Men have been beaten for showing their legs in public, for wearing shorts instead of long pants. So Iranians have been forced to suffer through four decades, nearly five decades of Islamism. And they've paid the price for it. And so they know the value even if they weren't alive prior to the revolution. They make a very simple comparison and see what the lives of their parents were like before and what their lives are now. And they clearly say, I want that. I want to be free. I want to be able to be a citizen of a country where I feel respected, where I feel I'm treated with dignity. And that's what's been lost for the past 47 years. But just a brief comment on the demography of Iran. It's very interesting to know and likely again because of the theocratic nature of this regime, it may not even be fair to say in the future that Iran is a majority Muslim country. We are seeing huge swaths of the country go towards different religions. There's been a huge rise in atheism. It is reported in some circles that the fastest pace of growth of Christianity anywhere in the world is in Iran. There are hundreds of underground churches. Unfortunately, pastors and secret worshipers are repeatedly and on a daily basis arrested. Some are even killed for the crime of so called apostasy according to the Islamic Republic. So we see a huge number of increasing Christians. There's of course still a Jewish population in Iran, many turning to the pre Islamic faith of Zoroastrianism. The Baha' I faith continues to be heavily, heavily persecuted. So I think after this many years of religious discrimination, the future of free Iran will really have a flourishing of so many faiths. And once again our hope is that those people, those citizens of the country, irrespective of their faith, will be able to live side by side in peace.

A (18:49)

It is a unique. Well, I think it's unique on one level because nobody ever gets asked, especially in that region, about, you know, if you were to go to Israel, for example. People aren't walking around celebrating Judaism and saying, hi, I'm a Jew, I'm a Jew. They are Israeli. They see this as territorial and ethnic and cultural. And yes, there's a religious component, but they're not the most religious society, although they do have their own problem with the Hasidim and their encroachment on the power structure there. Similarly, in Iran, you know, Cameron's not making this up. Six in 10 in the most recent surveys. And remember how risky it is to admit what they're about to admit. They say, I don't identify as Muslim anymore. That's how I was brought up. But that's not how I see myself. Think about saying that when you know this regime will kill you. So it's a pretty honest number. So 6 out of 10. So that is very unique. And it is a pushback against the concerns, even if they're ignorant ones in the west, about Muslim equaling extremism. So that is interesting. So now we go to the prince, and you have three levels of challenge there. The first one is, again, giving voice to what that population was even in the 70s and 80s. One of the challenges for the prince to overcome is he's a little friendly with the West. This guy's a little friendly with Israel, he's a little too friendly with America. And that is a real point of opposition for the prince. And does that speak to the big concern, which is, ooh, you guys are anti Western.

B (20:26)

Well, it's interesting, Chris, as I said at the beginning, it's shocking press for some people to understand how Iranians view this current military intervention against the regime. It also may be shocking for your viewers to realize, I think, how so many Iranians think about the United States and thinking, think about Israel after 47 years of anti American, anti Israel propaganda. I mean, students, everyday people in Iran are forced every day to go to school or at work and chant, death to America, death to Israel, death to the Shah, for example. And it's really been those three things which have made a resurgence in recent years, I would say. I don't know if there's polling about this, but probably there is no country in the Middle east where, where the United States and Israel are so popular as it is in Iran. And I think that's for multiple reasons, the first of which is those have been the two countries who have been willing to stand up to this regime. You don't see, for example, I don't know, the United Kingdom or France being particularly popular. In Iran, maybe there's a neutral view of them, but that's because Keir Starmer or Emmanuel Macron have not taken a particularly strong position against the Islamic Republic. If anything, they've been the main advocates of appeasing this regime. So there's something to be said for the fact that Americans and Israelis have so consistently stood up to this regime that the people say, we like that those guys are on our side. In fact, in the recent protests we've had in Iran, we see people painting over street signs and renaming them Donald Trump street or Bibi Netanyahu Avenue because they appreciate the fact that somebody's finally turning and hitting back at the people who've been hitting them for so long. So maybe in some circles, and maybe in the intellectual circles somewhere on Iran, but I really don't think that that's a concern. I was just talking to a family friend the other day who was finally, at some personal risk, able to escape Iran over the border and come out and tended to be a left leaning person in Iran and kind of the guy who has read all the books and knows everything, very erudite, very sophisticated, prided himself on his liberalism and said, I was so wrong because for so many years I thought that the Americans and the Israelis were, with their pressure on the regime, were helping it stay in power and we had to do some sort of reform. And I was so wrong. What I've seen, what I saw that they did to our countrymen on January 8th and 9th when they attached military style weapons on the top of cars and just slaughter people. The only way you can take that out is with the military intervention that we're seeing right now. So that may have been a concern at some time, Chris, but at this point, I frankly don't think it is. And I think people appreciate the fact that the prince, having lived for the past 47 years in exile, appreciates the Western values, and if anything, they're also inherently Iranian. Ancient Iranian values of human rights, of democracy. And they view him as someone who can bring those back to Iran.

A (23:40)

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B (23:59)

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A (24:00)

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B (25:35)

It's absolutely heartbreaking. It's devastating to see innocent lives taken like that. But there's a few things to say, the first of which is, as you said, unfortunately, the regime has dragged us to this point of conflict. In fact, the prince has for years said this. He's advocated for so long against military intervention. He said, if you continue to appease this regime, if we do not help the people of Iran rise up and overthrow the Islamic Republic, we will be forced into a situation of war. This regime with its nuclear blackmail, with its threats to its neighbors, is going to drag America and the region to conflict. And that's exactly what we saw happen. And unfortunately, it leads sometimes to tragedies like that. It's devastating. But that's where the Islamic Republic has brought us in. And you're also exactly right that the Islamic Republic is in fact trying to make things like this happen. So many photos and videos have come out of Basij, IRGC police trucks, in hospitals, in schools, in girls schools. That's where they're hiding their forces. They're almost inviting these attacks. And I have to give credit and appreciate the President and Prime Minister Netanyahu, who, from everything that we've seen, are taking as much caution as possible to avoid civilian casualties. It's really the regime that is inviting this and trying to have its own innocent civilians use as human shields and cause more chaos. But as you said, let's not forget that it was the regime that dragged us here in the first place.

A (27:12)

What do you say to Americans who are pro Iranian freedom, but see Israel as being an oppressor, and that now America has been duped by Israel. And even though they are bombing a regime which they will believe is bad, this is still bad that they're doing it because they are hurting the people. Is that a misguided sympathy?

B (27:36)

It's misguided. And I would urge anyone who thinks that way not to think about everything through your own narrow political perspective. Don't think about Iran just through the perspective of Israel. Think about it if you want, from your own perspective as an American, or if you want for a second put yourself in the shoes of an Iranian who says, as I've described, that they've been jailed, they've been tortured, they've been raped for 47 years and somebody is intervening to help. And it's been only two countries, we have to be honest, that have stood up to this regime, and that's been Israel and that's been the United States. So anyone is welcome, of course, to have their own view of Israel and its policies. I think the Iranian people's view is positive because it's come in and it's helped them in their time of need. When they were being slaughtered, only two countries stood up and said, that's not right. We want to help these people. And so if they have some negative views of Israel or bias towards Israel, try and put that aside and try and think besides the fact that I think that they're wrong. But try and think about it just from the Iranian people's perspective and what it means to them and why they've welcomed this intervention. Then secondly is think about it. If you want, just as an American, imagine what a free Iran would mean. Imagine what an end to all these decades of terrorism against the United States. I saw Secretary Rice the other day say on a podcast that something between 70 and 75% of the American soldiers who were killed in Iraq likely were killed by IEDs that can be traced back to the Islamic Republic. So this regime has not just waged war on the people of Iran, it's waged war on the United States for 47 years. Everyone will remember the very second thing it did after it changed the age of marriage for young girls in Iran to nine years old. It took American diplomats hostage at the embassy for 444 days. It's been waging this war ever since it came to power.

A (29:32)

Yeah, and killed a bunch of US troops in another country in Lebanon. They were able to find a way to insinuate themselves and do what they do best or worst, which is export terror the second level of pushback to the prince is he's a prince. And if they're going to move away from this regime and towards democracy, why would they stop at monarchy? It is a reminder of a past that was maybe not seen as toxic as the regime, but was also something that was scrutinized.

B (30:08)

So, three things to say there, Chris. The first of which is Iran has had a history of 2,500 years of monarchy. So it's something very familiar, intimately familiar to Iranians, and it's a desire of many people on the streets across the country. One of the most common slogans we heard in the protest was Javi Shah or Long live the King. The second thing to say is that there is no inherent contradiction between monarchy and democracy, particularly constitutional monarchy. You look at the United Kingdom, you look at Japan, you look at Spain, you look at Belgium, many of the most advanced democracies in the world, in fact, are all constitutional monarchies. It's not where you have a monarch making decisions about day to day policies, but rather a symbol of national unity. And particularly in a country like Iran, which is so diverse and which has had the institution for so long, that may be of value, but that's up to the people to decide. And that leads me to the third point, which is the prince himself is not advocating necessarily for the return of monarchy. What he is advocating for is a process. And what he has offered for is his leadership in the transitional period to free and fair elections in which the people of Iran will be able to go to the ballot box and decide first and foremost, do they want a constitutional monarchy as we see in the United Kingdom or Spain or Japan again? Or do they want a republic, as you see in the United States or France or Germany, that will be the Iranian people's sovereign right to make.

A (31:42)

The last level of pushback is the prince wasn't in power, his father was. But the father had a controversial reputation as well. There were allegations of human rights abuse. He had his own thug squad, the Scanza, and that that was wrong too. That's how the regime had a chance to get in, because the people were so disgusted by the Shah. Is that fair criticism?

B (32:10)

I don't think that's a fair description. Look, it goes without saying that any government, any regime, any leader is not above critique. Mistakes are not something that only opponents make. But I think it's very fair to say that the people of Iran, overwhelmingly, particularly the youth, those who didn't live at that time, have very fond appreciation for both the late Shah and And Reza Shah was the first found, the founder of the Pahlavi dynasty. One of the most common slogans we hear is Reza Shah, bless your soul. People are chanting. They're tattooing the face of the late Shah or Reza Shah or their signatures on their trucks, on their bodies, on elsewhere, because they viewed the late Shah and Reza Shah as synonymous with progress, with Iranian national identity, that what they did was for the betterment of the country. And that's why you see such high support for the prince and for his family across Iran, and particularly among the youth.

A (33:14)

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B (37:51)

All I can say about that is two things is the way to end the constant crisis and worry over the Strait of Hormuz is for this regime to finally be gone. We talked about its hostage taking. It's now trying to take the Strait of Hormuz hostage. When this regime is gone, Iran won't be synonymous with hostage taking. It'll be synonymous as it once was with peaceful relations, with prosperity in the Middle east, with ensuring that it can work with its regional partners, the Saudis, the Israelis and others. And as it relates to Lebanon, the reason that Lebanon is in this catastrophic state that it is to today is because of the regime in Iran. Hezbollah, literally the Party of God, as they call it, was created by the Islamic Republic to subvert Lebanese sovereignty, to build a state within a state to terrorize the Lebanese people and take that country hostage. And its bills have been paid by the regime in Iran at the expense of the Iranian people for the past 47 years. So the way to end the conflict and the crisis in Lebanon, along with the one in Yemen, along with the one in Iraq, all lead through Iran. And when the regime in Iran is no longer there to pay the bills for these terrorist groups and Iran can be a factor for stability, those crises will immediately fall by the wayside.

A (39:10)

Critics say, hey, you know, this was a revolution in 79 that led to the regime coming in. This was what the people wanted. They were upset at the Shah. They thought he was too Western, too oppressive. And there was a whole list of complaints. And it wasn't the Scanza. It was savak S A V A K was what was identified as his kind of thug squad. And that this was what the people wanted. So who is America to come in there and mess with what their own history dictated?

B (39:46)

Well, the people of Iran have been the ones fighting this fight. They're not asking America to fight their fight for them. They gave, as we discussed earlier, 30,000 young lives in the fight for freedom. And what they're asking for is help. They're not asking America or Israel or any country to determine their future for them. They're fighting for their own future. They're fighting to take their country back, to determine their own path going forward. But they're asking for help in that fight, just like Americans had the help of Lafayette and the French in the fight for their independence and their revolution. Iranians, too, are looking for fights. And they're thankful that they have the friendship and the support of the United States and Israel in their fight.

A (40:27)

Is it unfair to compare the Ayatollah to the Shah in terms of being a different flavor of the same ice cream?

B (40:35)

It's absolutely unfair. Those two could not be further from the truth. In fact, so many of the claims made about the SAVAK and what happened during the reign of the Shah, the Islamic Republic itself, in fact, when it came to power, commissioned a study by a gentleman called Emad Ibagri to Look into what they claimed were the mass crimes of the Shah. And they found out themselves that so many of the claimed tens of thousands of political prisoners did not even exist. They could only find several hundred people who had been killed during the reign of the Shah. More than half of them were armed militants who had been killed during shootouts with police. They had taken guns, bombs approached police or government offices firing. And so of course, in any situation, the police would shoot back. So the comparison is not one that is fair, it's not accurate. And I think again, you see on the streets of Iran, the people making the judgment, when they chant Long live the Shah, they're answering that very question.

A (41:38)

And the Prince is willing to go back to Iran, even though it will be a very volatile situation for a very long time. And for the regime and its sympathizers, life is cheap and there's big bloodlust. That is a huge risk he would be taking.

B (41:56)

Well, he's dedicated his life to Iran, to the service of his people, knowing that we would get to this moment. And in fact, he said in an interview with an Iranian Persian language television station beaming into Iran just two days ago that I'm not only preparing to come back to Iran, I'm preparing and prepared to come back to Iran even before this regime ultimately collapses, to lead the final battle against this regime. So he's given his life to this cause. He's dedicated 47 years in exile to fight for freedom. And he will be back. And he's willing to give even his life, as we all are in this cause.

A (42:35)

Cameron, thank you very much for the perspective and the analysis and the information about the Prince. I absolutely welcome the cause of freedom at the determination of the Iranian people. And I hope we get to see it soon.

B (42:50)

I hope so too. Thank you for your time, Chris.

A (42:59)

Really interesting to think about that, that you're so desperate for better that you're willing to have your home bombed and that you are grateful to America, to Israel, as the only two to step up and want to do something about this. But is it enough and is it worth it for America and will it really lead to something better? Those are very vexing questions, especially when you gotta balance what we're doing abroad with all we're not doing at home. These are tough, but it's easy to have sympathy and maybe we should for a people yearning for freedom. And America did have a hand in destabilizing the Shah's rule in the late 70s. Sure, they had helped install him. They had fought to keep him but they were also part of the destabilization, and that's why they were some animus towards America. Is that really over? I mean, these are tough questions. It would be a real political suicide mission for this administration to create change in Iran that winds up leading to something worse than what we have there right now. That's tough to imagine, but crazier things have happened. Who had President Trump bombing Iran on their bingo card? Not me. Thank you for subscribing and following. Thank you for being with us here at the Chris Cuomo Project and looking at YouTube for the subscription that works for you. You want to have FaceTime with me. You want to be in a group setting, ask questions, get specific answers, Whatever it is, there's a subscription for you. You want this ad? Free subscription for you. Check it out. And I'm wearing it because I am one. I'm a critical thinker. I'm different. I'm not some lemming pack animal. I'm a free agent. And you got to earn my vote. Not out of party fealty, but out of loyalty to my own principles and my sense of being an American. How about you? That's why I sell the merch. That's why I want you to check it out so we can crowdsource our contributions. It's not going to the Chris Cuomo Pizza Fund, I promise you that. And that we can then it away to people and causes we can all feel good about. I'll see you at News Nation 8pm midnight every weekday night. I'll see you in the morning on SiriusXM channel 124, 7 to 9 Eastern, every morning. And of course, the Chris Cuomo Project is always here for you. Thank you for giving me the opportunity.