The Chris Cuomo Project
Episode: "What Rand Paul Says the Epstein Files Really Reveal"
Date: November 20, 2025
Guest: Senator Rand Paul
Host: Chris Cuomo
Episode Overview
In this candid episode, Chris Cuomo sits down with Senator Rand Paul for a deep dive into two of the most contentious recent topics in U.S. politics: the release of the Epstein files and the sudden federal move to ban hemp at the behest of Kentucky Senator Mitch McConnell. Paul offers his unfiltered perspective on institutional trust, transparency, the influence of corporate interests, and what these developments reveal about the current state of American governance. The conversation also explores broader themes like personal liberty, political hypocrisy, and the enduring struggle to maintain democratic accountability.
Main Themes
- Transparency, Trust, and the Epstein Files
- The Federal Ban on Hemp vs. States’ Rights
- Hypocrisy, Special Interests, and Political Power Plays
- Personal Liberties and the War on Drugs
- Broader Reflections: Foreign Policy, Socialism, and the Debt Crisis
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Epstein Files: Transparency and Public Trust
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Senator Rand Paul views the “Epstein files” controversy less about individual revelations and more as a litmus test of public faith in government impartiality and justice.
"They represent this idea that people are distrustful of government and justice. They think that perhaps justice might be different if you're rich versus if you're poor."
(Senator Rand Paul, 01:57) -
Paul admits he hasn’t been deeply involved with the case, but supports maximum transparency to “get this behind us.”
"I voted a couple times for that. And now it looks like it goes to the President's desk..."
(Senator Rand Paul, 02:27) -
He is skeptical about dramatic new revelations:
"I don't know that there is going to be any earth shattering or groundbreaking revelation. I really just don't know."
(02:48) -
Both Cuomo and Paul worry that transparency won’t satisfy the public or restore trust:
"People are so convinced they're smoking guns in there... that they'll never be satisfied and this makes it worse?"
(Chris Cuomo, 03:12)"That's true of a lot of things in government. People will become more distrustful..."
(Senator Rand Paul, 03:24)
2. The Hemp Ban: Process, Hypocrisy, and States’ Rights
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Paul clarifies he didn’t “choose the moment” to make hemp a sticking point in the government shutdown and reveals McConnell stealthily inserted the ban after it had been previously removed, a move affecting 25 states with their own hemp laws.
"Mitch McConnell stuck this provision in after I had it removed in the summer... McConnell's law is now going to overturn Kentucky law."
(Senator Rand Paul, 05:15–06:13) -
He criticizes the hypocrisy in American vice laws:
"...this primitive notion that bourbon is fine, but, you know, THC is wrong... And then people from the Stone Age, like McConnell, who saw Reefer Madness in 1925 live at the matinee..."
(Senator Rand Paul, 06:29) -
Paul objects to federal overreach and points out both the alcohol and cannabis industries lobbied against hemp because they see it as competition.
"...alcohol saw it as competition, cannabis saw it as competition."
(07:00) -
On the damage the ban would do:
"It's a 25 billion dollar industry is going to be wiped out... Call Mitch McConnell and frankly, call some of the Democrats that voted to ban it, too."
(07:32)
3. Personal Experience & Policy Fairness
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Cuomo shares his personal preference for hemp-derived THC, highlighting the ban’s arbitrary and punitive effects.
"It has helped me not need alcohol... so many people with pain maladies... seem like all those people got a middle finger from this cabal..."
(Chris Cuomo, 10:40–11:32) -
Paul stresses that legal regulation protects consumers better than prohibition and recounts the political callousness he’s witnessed:
"Romney got the nomination and a young man... with MS... said, would you deny me the right to use medical marijuana... and Romney looked right at him and said, yep."
(Senator Rand Paul, 11:47)"Legal things are actually much better controlled than illegal things."
(Senator Rand Paul, 12:44)
4. Path Forward & Structural Hurdles
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Paul will propose federal legislation to let state frameworks stand, but admits it is difficult because of congressional inertia and special interest lobbies.
"...if your state has already passed a framework for hemp, that that supersedes the federal law. Now, traditionally... federal law trumps state law. But if you write a federal law that says specifically..."
(Senator Rand Paul, 13:52) -
He observes Congress lags public opinion by at least a decade on such issues:
"...it took probably 15 years after the public had already decided they were okay with this to have it become law."
(Senator Rand Paul, 15:51)
5. Broader Reflections: War, Socialism, and the State of Democracy
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Paul sees his mission as vital, particularly on issues of war and foreign intervention, lamenting bipartisan failures and the misuse of military force:
"If I'm not here, there aren't many people that will argue that most wars of aggression... shouldn't be fought."
(Senator Rand Paul, 19:47)"[On summary execution for drug crimes at sea:] When did the death penalty summary execution without a trial be the punishment for drugs? That's never been our policy."
(21:18) -
On socialism:
"The average person [in Venezuela's socialism] has lost 30 pounds because socialism doesn't produce enough food for people... But I'm not in favor of... taking them out just because they're socialists."
(Senator Rand Paul, 23:28)"[Sweden's] Corporate tax was 20% for the last 30 years. Ours was 35 until 2017. They have a safety net... but they tax the hell out of you. In the US... both parties... want a welfare state... but neither one... want to pay for it. And so we borrow."
(Senator Rand Paul, 28:18) -
On looming economic chaos from debt and monetary instability:
"[Ray Dalio] is right to worry about the chaos that comes... if a currency, particularly the world's reserve currency, were to lose value in a sudden fashion... It would be chaos in the streets."
(Senator Rand Paul, 30:29)
Notable Quotes / Memorable Moments
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Trust and Justice:
"People will become more distrustful of government on many fronts... the government hasn't been honest on a few simple things."
(Senator Rand Paul, 03:24) -
Personal Liberty:
"Who am I to tell somebody's mom or grandma... you can take Ambien, Percocet... but you can't take a gummy with a little bit of THC from a plant?"
(Senator Rand Paul, 06:57) -
On Political Process:
"The disappointing thing is that people are voting based on shirts and skins, but not on the debt being a problem."
(Senator Rand Paul, 04:45) -
On Prohibition and Safety:
"Legal things are actually much better controlled than illegal things."
(Senator Rand Paul, 12:47) -
On American Social Policy:
"Both parties... want a welfare state... and a warfare state, but neither... really want to pay for it."
(Senator Rand Paul, 29:30) -
Chris Cuomo on Transparency:
"The Epstein thing, the files have to come out. I don't like the rationales that are being offered up for why. I don't believe it's about the survivors, but that's my opinion."
(Chris Cuomo, 22:41)
Important Timestamps
- Epstein Files and Government Trust: 01:57 – 03:43
- Partisan Hypocrisy & Debt: 03:50 – 04:52
- Hemp Ban Process, State Rights: 05:15 – 07:48
- Personal Stories on Hemp, Policy Hypocrisy: 10:40 – 13:25
- Senate Dynamics and States’ Rights: 13:46 – 15:10
- Reflections on Liberty and Foreign Policy: 19:10 – 22:41
- Socialism, Welfare State Comparison: 27:47 – 30:48
Conclusion
In a freewheeling conversation marked by frank critique and wry humor, Cuomo and Senator Paul address some of the thorniest questions facing American politics: systemic distrust, legislative backroom dealing, and the slow, lobby-compromised evolution of national policy. Paul laments the state's overreach whether suppressing hemp or authorizing military action abroad, underscoring his libertarian belief in personal responsibility and skepticism of entrenched power.
His takeaway on both the Epstein files and the hemp ban: transparency and personal liberty are always the right answer—no matter how uncomfortable they make the powerful.
For listeners seeking a grounded, insight-rich perspective rarely heard on mainstream platforms, this episode provides both substance and spirited debate, revealing the tangled web of policy, politics, and principle behind the week’s headlines.