The Chris Cuomo Project

Episode: What Really Happened in Venezuela (and What Comes Next)

Date: January 8, 2026
Host: Chris Cuomo
Guest: Rick de la Torre (former CIA chief in Venezuela)

Episode Overview

Chris Cuomo delivers an in-depth analysis of the recent U.S. military intervention in Venezuela that resulted in the removal and arrest of President Nicolás Maduro. Cuomo grapples with the legal, moral, and political complexities of the operation, challenging simple right/wrong narratives. He brings in Rick de la Torre, former CIA station chief in Venezuela, to clarify the on-the-ground realities and possible future scenarios for both Venezuela and U.S. foreign policy, highlighting the tension between pragmatic outcomes and foundational principles.

Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. Why Did the U.S. Remove Maduro?

Timestamps: [00:30]–[06:21]

• Two Competing Narratives:
  • Moral/legal critique: U.S. may have violated domestic/international law, risking a “might makes right” global message; concern over civilian casualties and lasting damage.
  • Realpolitik defense: Maduro was a despotic oppressor responsible for widespread suffering and exodus; removal seen as liberation by Venezuelans and a warning to adversaries (Hamas, Hezbollah, Russia, China).
• "You feel like you gotta pick one. I don’t think that’s the way reason works." — Chris Cuomo [02:56]
• Motivation of Trump administration: Described as an “easy win” for political optics, strength, oil, and regional messaging.
• Political hesitancy on the Left: Democrats are circumspect, wary of being seen as pro-Maduro, and recall the political fallout of past interventions (e.g., El Salvador).

2. The Contradictions in MAGA and America First

Timestamps: [06:21]–[13:00]

• Cuomo highlights Trump’s campaign promises: To avoid costly foreign entanglements and focus on the U.S., contrasting them with this intervention.
• "Once you start explaining, you’re losing in politics." — Chris Cuomo [10:42]
• Noting MAGA silence: Suggests the move contradicts core MAGA principles (non-intervention, focus at home), rendering supporters defensive or confused.
• Media manipulation and “outrage of the week” called out, referencing figures like Megyn Kelly:
  • "It’s about what gets the clicks and the follows and the revenue. That’s what it’s about." — Chris Cuomo [12:48]
• Complexity as a virtue: Cuomo urges listeners to resist binary, absolutist thinking.

3. Why Venezuela, Not Mexico or Others?

Timestamps: [13:01]–[20:38]

• Proximity as justification: Venezuela’s invitation to U.S. adversaries and its regional closeness distinguished it as a threat.
• Drug trade argument shaky: Mexican cartels are a larger problem than Venezuela’s; drugs were not the real motive.
• Moral and legal conduct matters: Even if the end is positive, “how you administer the law matters.”
• "This is exactly what President Trump campaigned against... Stay out of it. Focus on home." — Chris Cuomo [14:47]

4. On the Ground: After Maduro – Power, Stability & Opposition

Timestamps: [20:39]–[27:08]

• Cuomo interviews Rick de la Torre, former CIA chief in Venezuela:
• CIA assessment: It was better to keep elements of the old regime (e.g., VP Delsey Rodriguez) for stability, as opposition leaders are exiles.
  • “Someone’s still got to stay behind to turn on the lights…” — Rick de la Torre [20:58]
• Rick predicts the current regime remnants will be interim; hopes for swift transition to opposition leadership (e.g., Machado).
• Election legitimacy challenges: Even leading opposition (Machado) faced disenfranchisement; Guaidó’s reputation is mixed, opposition is fragmented and sometimes compromised.

5. Is This Good for the U.S. & the Hemisphere?

Timestamps: [27:08]–[32:41]

• Trump’s “in charge” bravado dismissed as political theater; boots on the ground seen as a disastrous non-option.
• De la Torre’s take: The outcome is “great for the region” and a game-changer, recasting U.S. leverage with Russia and China due to oil control.
  • “Right now, today, the United States controls probably more than half of the world’s oil supply.” — Rick de la Torre [30:22]
• Skepticism about oil numbers, but clear U.S. influence over oil pricing and supply going forward.

6. Was the U.S. Operation Legal?

Timestamps: [32:41]–[37:43]

• Cuomo’s challenge: Argues the action was legally dubious under international and even U.S. law—analogous to past controversial interventions.
• De la Torre’s response: Since Maduro was not recognized as legitimate president by much of the world (incl. U.S.), precedent exists (e.g., Noriega); surgical nature and criminal indictments of Maduro justify the action.
• "Just because the guy is indicted here doesn’t mean you can go get him somewhere else." — Chris Cuomo [37:49]

7. Monroe Doctrine (or 'Don Row Doctrine') & Precedent for Other Interventions

Timestamps: [37:43]–[45:07]

• Cuomo contextualizes with U.S. hemispheric policy history: Monroe Doctrine versus Roosevelt’s corollary (“the sheriff in the backyard”).
• Worries about escalation: If this is justified, who's next—Colombia, Cuba, Mexico? Warns against “hopscotch” interventionism.
• De la Torre sees Venezuela as unique: U.S. removed a regional platform for Russia, China, Iranian, and terrorist influences. Venezuela under Maduro was more actively menacing to U.S. interests than, for example, the Saudi government.

8. Complex Morality, ‘Ends Justify Means’ and Slippery Slopes

Timestamps: [45:07]–[56:51]

• Casualties and blowback: Debate over civilian deaths, accuracy of reports, and ethical trade-offs.
  • “It’s a good move until it isn’t.” — Chris Cuomo [52:21]
• Potential for future ‘domino effect’ interventions: Both agree against systematic militarized “regime change,” but acknowledge enticing U.S. power and influence.
• Pragmatism versus principle:
  • “Sometimes we have to pinch our nose and move forward.” — Rick de la Torre [54:33]

9. Final Takeaways & National Discourse

Timestamps: [56:51]–[End]

• Cuomo and de la Torre agree on the need for “critical thinking” and resisting social media-fueled tribalism.
  • “Our biggest problem, in my opinion in America right now is we have forgotten how to disagree.” — Chris Cuomo [56:58]
• Cuomo’s closing: Maintaining independence of thought, refusing to be “all in” on either side, and resisting social polarization.

Notable Quotes

• Chris Cuomo:

  • “I do not like what just happened in Venezuela.” [00:42]
  • “Once you start explaining, you’re losing in politics.” [10:42]
  • “Two things can be true at the same time. Things can be nuanced, things can be complicated, and that’s okay.” [12:56]
  • “If you want it easy, stick to board games, okay?” [17:23]

• Rick de la Torre:

  • “You’ve got to work with what you’ve got on the ground. So you, you pinch your nose and, and you work with, sadly with, with Delsey Rodriguez.” [21:09]
  • “This is a real game changer on a global scale, not just for the people of Venezuela, not just for the United States. But this changes our leverage with Russia, this changes our leverage with China.” [28:52]
  • “If the Saudi government was working with the Chinese to undermine us...I’d have no problem with it.” [54:49]

Important Segments & Timestamps

• Setting up the problem: The two narratives — [00:30]–[06:20]
• Trump’s motivations and political machinations — [06:20]–[14:00]
• U.S. strategic interests and proximity — [13:01]–[20:38]
• Rick de la Torre Interview (transition in Venezuela, stability, opposition, CIA report): [20:39]–[27:08]
• Impact on U.S.-Russia-China relations, oil control — [27:08]–[32:41]
• Legality of the intervention: domestic and international law — [32:41]–[37:43]
• History and precedent: Monroe and Roosevelt, and “who’s next?” — [37:43]–[45:07]
• Ethical questions, casualties, and practical consequences — [45:07]–[56:51]
• Reflections on polarization, critical thinking, and media culture — [56:51]–[End]

Conclusion

This episode offers a layered, challenging look at the U.S. action in Venezuela, refusing to reduce events to “right” or “wrong” and instead surfacing the complicated web of ethics, law, politics, and national interest. Cuomo and de la Torre examine motives, consequences, precedents, and the realities beneath headlines, urging listeners to go beyond partisanship and embrace critical, nuanced analysis.