What Really Happened in Venezuela (and What Comes Next)

Summary

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The Chris Cuomo Project

Episode: What Really Happened in Venezuela (and What Comes Next)

Date: January 8, 2026
Host: Chris Cuomo
Guest: Rick de la Torre (former CIA chief in Venezuela)

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Episode Overview

Chris Cuomo delivers an in-depth analysis of the recent U.S. military intervention in Venezuela that resulted in the removal and arrest of President Nicolás Maduro. Cuomo grapples with the legal, moral, and political complexities of the operation, challenging simple right/wrong narratives. He brings in Rick de la Torre, former CIA station chief in Venezuela, to clarify the on-the-ground realities and possible future scenarios for both Venezuela and U.S. foreign policy, highlighting the tension between pragmatic outcomes and foundational principles.

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Key Themes & Discussion Points

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1. Why Did the U.S. Remove Maduro?

Timestamps: [00:30]–[06:21]

• Two Competing Narratives:
  • Moral/legal critique: U.S. may have violated domestic/international law, risking a “might makes right” global message; concern over civilian casualties and lasting damage.
  • Realpolitik defense: Maduro was a despotic oppressor responsible for widespread suffering and exodus; removal seen as liberation by Venezuelans and a warning to adversaries (Hamas, Hezbollah, Russia, China).
• "You feel like you gotta pick one. I don’t think that’s the way reason works." — Chris Cuomo [02:56]
• Motivation of Trump administration: Described as an “easy win” for political optics, strength, oil, and regional messaging.
• Political hesitancy on the Left: Democrats are circumspect, wary of being seen as pro-Maduro, and recall the political fallout of past interventions (e.g., El Salvador).

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2. The Contradictions in MAGA and America First

Timestamps: [06:21]–[13:00]

• Cuomo highlights Trump’s campaign promises: To avoid costly foreign entanglements and focus on the U.S., contrasting them with this intervention.
• "Once you start explaining, you’re losing in politics." — Chris Cuomo [10:42]
• Noting MAGA silence: Suggests the move contradicts core MAGA principles (non-intervention, focus at home), rendering supporters defensive or confused.
• Media manipulation and “outrage of the week” called out, referencing figures like Megyn Kelly:
  • "It’s about what gets the clicks and the follows and the revenue. That’s what it’s about." — Chris Cuomo [12:48]
• Complexity as a virtue: Cuomo urges listeners to resist binary, absolutist thinking.

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3. Why Venezuela, Not Mexico or Others?

Timestamps: [13:01]–[20:38]

• Proximity as justification: Venezuela’s invitation to U.S. adversaries and its regional closeness distinguished it as a threat.
• Drug trade argument shaky: Mexican cartels are a larger problem than Venezuela’s; drugs were not the real motive.
• Moral and legal conduct matters: Even if the end is positive, “how you administer the law matters.”
• "This is exactly what President Trump campaigned against... Stay out of it. Focus on home." — Chris Cuomo [14:47]

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4. On the Ground: After Maduro – Power, Stability & Opposition

Timestamps: [20:39]–[27:08]

• Cuomo interviews Rick de la Torre, former CIA chief in Venezuela:
• CIA assessment: It was better to keep elements of the old regime (e.g., VP Delsey Rodriguez) for stability, as opposition leaders are exiles.
  • “Someone’s still got to stay behind to turn on the lights…” — Rick de la Torre [20:58]
• Rick predicts the current regime remnants will be interim; hopes for swift transition to opposition leadership (e.g., Machado).
• Election legitimacy challenges: Even leading opposition (Machado) faced disenfranchisement; Guaidó’s reputation is mixed, opposition is fragmented and sometimes compromised.

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5. Is This Good for the U.S. & the Hemisphere?

Timestamps: [27:08]–[32:41]

• Trump’s “in charge” bravado dismissed as political theater; boots on the ground seen as a disastrous non-option.
• De la Torre’s take: The outcome is “great for the region” and a game-changer, recasting U.S. leverage with Russia and China due to oil control.
  • “Right now, today, the United States controls probably more than half of the world’s oil supply.” — Rick de la Torre [30:22]
• Skepticism about oil numbers, but clear U.S. influence over oil pricing and supply going forward.

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6. Was the U.S. Operation Legal?

Timestamps: [32:41]–[37:43]

• Cuomo’s challenge: Argues the action was legally dubious under international and even U.S. law—analogous to past controversial interventions.
• De la Torre’s response: Since Maduro was not recognized as legitimate president by much of the world (incl. U.S.), precedent exists (e.g., Noriega); surgical nature and criminal indictments of Maduro justify the action.
• "Just because the guy is indicted here doesn’t mean you can go get him somewhere else." — Chris Cuomo [37:49]

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7. Monroe Doctrine (or 'Don Row Doctrine') & Precedent for Other Interventions

Timestamps: [37:43]–[45:07]

• Cuomo contextualizes with U.S. hemispheric policy history: Monroe Doctrine versus Roosevelt’s corollary (“the sheriff in the backyard”).
• Worries about escalation: If this is justified, who's next—Colombia, Cuba, Mexico? Warns against “hopscotch” interventionism.
• De la Torre sees Venezuela as unique: U.S. removed a regional platform for Russia, China, Iranian, and terrorist influences. Venezuela under Maduro was more actively menacing to U.S. interests than, for example, the Saudi government.

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8. Complex Morality, ‘Ends Justify Means’ and Slippery Slopes

Timestamps: [45:07]–[56:51]

• Casualties and blowback: Debate over civilian deaths, accuracy of reports, and ethical trade-offs.
  • “It’s a good move until it isn’t.” — Chris Cuomo [52:21]
• Potential for future ‘domino effect’ interventions: Both agree against systematic militarized “regime change,” but acknowledge enticing U.S. power and influence.
• Pragmatism versus principle:
  • “Sometimes we have to pinch our nose and move forward.” — Rick de la Torre [54:33]

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9. Final Takeaways & National Discourse

Timestamps: [56:51]–[End]

• Cuomo and de la Torre agree on the need for “critical thinking” and resisting social media-fueled tribalism.
  • “Our biggest problem, in my opinion in America right now is we have forgotten how to disagree.” — Chris Cuomo [56:58]
• Cuomo’s closing: Maintaining independence of thought, refusing to be “all in” on either side, and resisting social polarization.

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Notable Quotes

• Chris Cuomo:

  • “I do not like what just happened in Venezuela.” [00:42]
  • “Once you start explaining, you’re losing in politics.” [10:42]
  • “Two things can be true at the same time. Things can be nuanced, things can be complicated, and that’s okay.” [12:56]
  • “If you want it easy, stick to board games, okay?” [17:23]

• Rick de la Torre:

  • “You’ve got to work with what you’ve got on the ground. So you, you pinch your nose and, and you work with, sadly with, with Delsey Rodriguez.” [21:09]
  • “This is a real game changer on a global scale, not just for the people of Venezuela, not just for the United States. But this changes our leverage with Russia, this changes our leverage with China.” [28:52]
  • “If the Saudi government was working with the Chinese to undermine us...I’d have no problem with it.” [54:49]

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Setting up the problem: The two narratives — [00:30]–[06:20]
• Trump’s motivations and political machinations — [06:20]–[14:00]
• U.S. strategic interests and proximity — [13:01]–[20:38]
• Rick de la Torre Interview (transition in Venezuela, stability, opposition, CIA report): [20:39]–[27:08]
• Impact on U.S.-Russia-China relations, oil control — [27:08]–[32:41]
• Legality of the intervention: domestic and international law — [32:41]–[37:43]
• History and precedent: Monroe and Roosevelt, and “who’s next?” — [37:43]–[45:07]
• Ethical questions, casualties, and practical consequences — [45:07]–[56:51]
• Reflections on polarization, critical thinking, and media culture — [56:51]–[End]

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Conclusion

This episode offers a layered, challenging look at the U.S. action in Venezuela, refusing to reduce events to “right” or “wrong” and instead surfacing the complicated web of ethics, law, politics, and national interest. Cuomo and de la Torre examine motives, consequences, precedents, and the realities beneath headlines, urging listeners to go beyond partisanship and embrace critical, nuanced analysis.

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Transcript

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[Chris Cuomo]

Do you want to know what led up to what just happened in Venezuela? Why and what it was about, and what is going to happen next? I have real answers for you two ways. One, through my reporting and reasoned analysis of what has happened before, what I know about what's going on inside the Trump administration, and what is to follow. And I've got the guy who led the CIA on the ground in Venezuela for years. For perspective, I'm Chris Cuomo. Welcome to the Chris Cuomo Project. Now you must fight through, okay, this needing to be all one way that because arguably what America just did violated international law, may have violated domestic law, and may have sent a message all around the world that might makes right when you think it does. And for all of those reasons, I do not like what just happened in Venezuela. So that's one position. Trump sucks. The other position is say that to the Venezuelan people who just got freed from a despot, Maduro is a bad guy. He rigged and then stole an election that he lost anyway. He is not recognized as the leader by many in the international community. And literally almost a third of the population of Venezuela ran away or was sent away or was chased away because of him. So this was a good thing, no matter how it went down. And sometimes doing the right thing is worth it, even if you didn't do it the right way. That's the argument. And that comes along with a string of oh, and also. Which is, oh, and also we now have control of this massive oil reserve. Oh, and also we just sent a message to Hamas, Hezbollah, Russia and China that you don't play in our backyard. And also, this was done in a way that shows to the world how effective the American military is. Okay, so those line up. And what the problem is is that you feel like you gotta pick one. And I don't think that's the way reason works. And I can tell you why this happened. Okay? The number one reason that this happened is because President Trump was convinced by his people that this was an easy win. And, you know, they're not always right. This time they were militarily. Militarily. This went off exactly the way they told him it could. Now, they also, in my opinion, were deceptive about the cost here. You had some American military injuries, nothing significant, certainly not by the standards of what we've seen in the Middle east and has always been ignored back here at home with American blood being shed. But you killed Venezuelans. Not just Maduro's security, you broke their houses, you broke infrastructure. There was a price here. But that said, the reason that this happened is because Trump was told it would be an easy win and he liked the politics attached to it, that he looks strong. And I'm not speculating. I'm telling you, I know. How do I know? Because I speak to people in and around the administration all the time. I also speak to people in and around the power structure of the Democratic Party all the time. So I understand the state of play on how people are playing it. And I'll tell you something, the left is a little quiet here. And I understand why, even if I'm not endorsing it. Why? Because they learned from the El Salvador situation when they went all in on a guy who was accused of being a gang member from South America who got deported to El Salvador, and then the Democratic senator went down there and they were screaming about ice, which I believe are legitimate complaints about how ICE is doing the job, whether or not someone is here illegally and that is a crime. It doesn't mean, just like with Venezuela, that you go about justice any way you want to. But they learned a political lesson there, that you gotta be careful about what hill you want to die on. And do you want to be defending Maduro? No. He's a bad guy. And Democrats have been saying he's a bad guy. And the Trump administration was followed by the Biden administration that upped the reward for his arrest. There's also a reason that the Biden administration upped the reward for the arrest and didn't do what Trump just did. And it's not because they didn't have the same military capabilities. It's because they didn't think it was the right thing to do. Trump does. Why? I'm telling you why he was told this could be done easily will show everyone how amazing we are and that you look strong and this is a bad guy. And it sends a message to China and Russia to get out. Now, I have to tell you. Does it check all those boxes of success for the administration? Probably. From what we've seen so far, Russia has said almost nothing. And China Said, oh, we'll see you in court if any of our rights are violated, which was the weakest response they could have given. And a bad guy is gone. And Venezuelans are really happy. Now, here's my problem. This is exactly what President Trump campaigned against. Exactly. There is a big group of MAGA people who are quiet right now when they should be going crazy because this is foreign intervention. And you can make the same argument. Look, is Maduro and Venezuela a little bit more threatening than Saudi Arabia and a lot of other bad players, bad people that we do business with? Yes.

[Rick de la Torre]

Why?

[Chris Cuomo]

Proximity. Maduro's insistence on inviting in as many of our enemies as he could, the amount of people that he has punished within his own country. Again, I'll say it even again. Proximity. All right? Proximity really matters here. Now, however. Then why are you talking about Mexico? Listen, the president of Mexico is not Maduro, okay? It was a real election. She won. She's recognized as the principal. There's nowhere near the kind of reporting about her infractions against her own people like Maduro had. It's not even a close call. However, as a threat, you take the proximity, and Mexico is actually a fentanyl factory. And Venezuela's activities and drugs are nothing compared to Mexico's activities in drugs. And if it's really about drugs, then why would this have been your priority? Because it wasn't just about drugs. It wasn't. In fact, the drugs are the weakest part of the analysis. And even if you were right about drugs, even if you're right about all of it, how you administer the law matters. It just does. And I don't like how this looks. And it doesn't mean that I don't think it's great for Venezuelans there and who have run away because they had to and live here in America or elsewhere. I get why they're happy. I get why they wanted this guy taken out. That doesn't mean America had to do it, and it doesn't mean America had to do it this way. Okay, now, what's my. What's the problem with this argument? It's not satisfying enough to either side. Trump breaks the law, abuses the military, kills people in another country, takes their leader and comes home and talks about wanting to do it more and maybe putting boots on the ground to secure the oil. He is an authoritarian despot who breaks the law and is immoral. That is all that is allowed on one side. You say anything short of that or anything other than that, you're MAGA now, on the maga side, you say any of the things that I just said. And even though many people in maga, there are more of you who should agree with me about this being the wrong way to do it than on the left. I'll tell you why. Because you guys are xenophobes. You guys want us out. You are nativists. You want our concerns here at home to dominate. That's what America first means. The President campaigned more than any recent president on the simple premise of, man, do these guys fuck up foreign power and policy on a regular basis. We got to stay out. These places are sinkholes, man. Stay out of it. Focus on home. Bring the money back, bring the energy back, bring the troops back, bring the focus back. Let's focus in America. Now. That's another reason that this just happened in Venezuela. Why? Because it's so much easier for the President to pull off as a success than what's happening here at home. And yes, it violates a main promise of his. And look, you can argue nuance, but once you're explaining, you're losing in politics. So once you start explaining why this forum, an intervention, this use of military abroad, this was okay. This was okay. But other ones were not. Once you start explaining, you're losing and you are no longer what you said you would be about. And that should be resonating within maga. But you guys are stuck because you don't want to go sideways on Trump. But, man, you guys are finding more and more things that are hard to justify. And that's why Megyn Kelly, who's desperate to reclaim her MAGA chops, right? Because you guys are all mad at her for the Candace Owens stuff, all of the double speak and all of the bullshit. But I don't know why you're so angry. Don't you know what it's about for her? It's about what gets the clicks and the follows and the revenue. That's what it's about. That's why it's the topic of the week. That's why it's outrage of the week. That's why she's picking enemies. And then they go away. Because it's not about principle. It's not about conviction. So her saying I'm a yellow signal on what Trump just did in Venezuela, ooh, bold. Of course you should be a yellow signal or a red one. Why? Because it is anathema to MAGA doctrine about what to do and not do abroad. And she's trying to win you guys back and get away from what you're angry at her about. Just see it for what it is. Because that's the purity test that's killing us. Two things can be true at the same time. Things can be nuanced, things can be complicated, and that's okay. And this move in Venezuela is one of them. Bad guy. But arguably you just did a bad thing or you did it a bad way. No, you didn't. You got rid of him. He's a bad guy. And he was uniquely menacing to us. Okay, so who's next? If it was such a one off, why wouldn't the President say that? Now you know what the answer is? Because he's not thinking the way I'm thinking. He's not thinking. I really don't want to do things like this. And I'm going to say that this was really an extraordinary set of circumstances and that's why I did it. And I'm not going to keep doing it. He doesn't want to say that. Why? Because he believes in might makes right. He believes in it. He likes to look muscular and powerful and alpha. And to some, that's how this looks. And that's why it's like, well, would you put boots on the ground? I'm open to it. What about Mexico? What about Cuba? What about Colombia? I'm open to it. Now that makes his critics crazy and I understand why. But it's not Trump derangement syndrome. You do have to remember though, this is a guy who says things, doesn't mean he's going to do things. But he just did this. I know, I know. It's a. It's a tricky analysis. It's not easy to know he is unpredictable. And that is difficult to deal with in a president of the most of powerful of the superpowers. It's totally confounding. I totally get it. Look at my hairline. I get it, I get it. But what I also get is it's a new year. You got to have a new way of looking at situations other than absolutism. This is absolutely wrong. Or this is absolutely right because it winds up leading to no progress. And do I think he's going to keep doing this in different places? No, I don't. Why? Look, we're going to lose people. There's going to be international condemnation. It's not going to be this simple or this obvious. Okay. And there are a lot of bad guys in the world. And I thought America was getting out of the business of being its policeman. So when you look at Venezuela and you want to Say, was it right or was it wrong? You can answer that question either way. To me personally, this was good for Venezuela. It was not as good for America, even with the message sent to Russia and China. Because what if Russia turns around and takes Zelensky? What if China turns around and goes into Taiwan? Are we going to be able to say, hey, you shouldn't have done that? What moral standing do we have? I think that's an issue. Oh, yeah, but the oil. Listen, we got plenty of oil. It's a world market. If you really want to control oil, go after the Saudis. The Saudis, you know, the guys where everyone, except maybe for one from 911 came from, you know, the home of Wahhabism, the violent form of extreme Islamism that was born there and that they helped finance and export. You know, where Osama bin Laden got a lot of his money and ideas. You know, those guys, you know, the guys who killed Khashoggi, the journalist, and a lot of other people who have their women covered and all that other shit. Dave Chappelle says he's freer to talk. Yeah, talk about them and their women and their rules. See how free you are, Dave? But we're not going after them. Why? Well, they're far away. Okay? Because you can't just reach out and fuck with people from anywhere anymore. Right? China and Russia, you think their biggest threat was that they were playing in Venezuela. Venezuela. And trying to get that oil. You don't think what they're doing to us on social media, their ability to hack into our control boards and our power grid and make us all hate each other. You don't think that's more menacing and moral focus of theirs than this stuff? Look, if you want it easy, stick to board games, okay? If you want to look at geopolitics, if you want to look at policy, if you want to look at moves, you have to be open to things that aren't all one way, and Venezuela is one of them. And again, I am saying to you out of the box, I do not like why and how this went down. I don't. I don't think it's satisfying legally or morally. And yes, and probably more than anybody else on News Nation, I had the voices from Venezuela and former leaders of theirs saying this was a good thing. They're happy that this happened. But if you think it's that simple, you're not even looking at what's happening in our own government. Why is Trump saying we're in power in Venezuela? Why didn't he take out Maduro's government. Why didn't he install another one if that's true? Because it's not that simple. Because a lot of the people who you would put in as the opponents of Maduro aren't even in the country or they have problems of their own, or they don't have the capabilities to run the place and will lead to just more chaos. That's why they didn't install somebody else. It's not because that's not what we usually do. That's exactly what we usually do, is take out a bad guy. Usually we kill him or somebody else kills him who's affiliated with us or financed by us or helped by us or friendly to us. And then you put in a whole new group. That's what keeps happening in the Middle East. Right, but we didn't do that here. Why? Because it's more complicated than that. And I think you've got to be open to that on these issues. It can't just be that if I say, oh, the American military really went in and out there and got this done in a way that probably nobody else in the world could have. You're maga. No, I'm not. I just told you I don't like the way that this happened. It doesn't mean that the military didn't execute well. But it's an illegal order. No, it's not an illegal order to them. It may have been an illegal international law situation, but I can say that and not be an endorsement of Trump or his rationales or his policy. And at the same time, I can see why people in Venezuela are so happy about this and see that this may be a positive move for them, even though Maduro's regime is still in power. And that doesn't make me maga and it doesn't make me anti Maga. Although I am anti partisan. I'll be honest. I'm not just non partisan. I don't just not pick a side. I'm against the sides. You people are killing us. Our social media is just consuming our any kind of sense of collective conscience or of patriotism or of being a nation. It's just all division, all the time, on every level. And this issue is a perfect Rorschach test for it. And that's not how life works, and it's not how policy works, and it's not how the situation in Venezuela worked. Support for the Chris Cuomo project comes from quince. Now, what is quince? Quince is a fruit. But I'll tell you what else It's a brand and it is a tasty brand, especially when it comes to winter wear. If you go to quince.com cuomo you're going to get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. You're not going to need the returns as long as you get your size right. And I'll tell you why. Because they are dealing with cashmere and better fabrics and it's fitted. So if you don't like the boxy look, I remember this when it first came in because I was worried, because I am about the boxy look. But you know why? 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Quint.com Cuomo if you want to know what was happening in Venezuela before this and what Maduro was about, and this new classified report that came out from the CIA that made its assessment about why if Maduro was gone, America was better served and Venezuela was better served by leaving the regime in place than by kicking everybody out. That report just came out. The guy who was the head of the CIA in Venezuela for years, who knows the situations then and now is Rick de la Torre and he joins me for an interview where he's going to tell you why this happened and what happens next. Rick, great to have you. Couldn't have a better guest for this. There are reports that a classified CIA kind of look at what would be best post Maduro informed the Trump administration, was asked for by the Trump administration that you're better off staying with the VP and that there's some other heads involved in the regime that can help create stability. Better than going with Machado, Better than going with an outside opposition group. One, do you believe in that assessment? And two, do you agree with that assessment?

[Rick de la Torre]

Well, look, I think that kind of assessment distills a lot of variables, a lot of facts into something that's digestible, but it's a little bit more complicated than that. Right. You know, ultimately, when these things happen, when an operation like this occurs, right, you've got to still deal with the realities of what you've got on the ground. So you look around, you've conducted this a great operation. Someone's still got to stay behind to turn on the lights, right? Someone's got to turn around, keep the water and sewer systems working and keep some sort of peace amongst the country. So what do you do? Who are you going to go with? Yeah, obviously the exile community, the opposition leaders. But they're in exile, they're not in the country, they're in a third country. So you know, you've got to work with what you've got on the ground. So you, you pitch your nose and, and you work with, sadly with, with Delsey Rodriguez.

[Chris Cuomo]

So one, your suspicion is that this reported classified report is legit. And that sounds like the right assessment to you?

[Rick de la Torre]

I think, I think that that kind of briefing occurred. You know, obviously I'm not sure if that was the headline or the actual results of that kind of report of like, hey, you know, we're gonna do this and this is who we're gonna go with, right? You know, I think it's just making the best of a horrible situation.

[Chris Cuomo]

But it would explain why the administration has been open to Maduro's administration staying in place in the form of his vice president. The question for me is, okay, I get it, but I'm really crazy about any of this having happened in the first place. And if Maduro's so bad and you're going to go take him and his wife, why would you want any of his regime staying in there?

[Rick de la Torre]

The concern of, hey, let's go there, let's wrap them all up, let's, let's put them all in handcuffs. That's a perfect world scenario. And again we went there, we took down Maduro and his wife, they're in prison, there's still arrest warrants out for Vladimiro and for a deal, Stallo, that's still there, they're still wanted men. So, so I'm not saying that, that it's over and done with. You know, it's, it's a matter of, of, of timing, it's a matter of resources and, and everything Else that I just mentioned, right. Someone's got to run the place. So you're left with Dely. It's a really bad situation. It's not, it's not what everyone wants, but it's, it's just the reality. I don't, I, I think it's short lived, by the way. I, you know, I think, I think this is one of those things that within a few weeks, hopefully if things continue the way they are, we'll have someone else there that doesn't have this kind of problem of being a member of the regime.

[Chris Cuomo]

Why do you think that? And do you think that there is an in for Machado or do you believe that Trump doesn't like her because she took the Nobel Prize and didn't say it should be his?

[Rick de la Torre]

Yeah, look, I think I saw that story too. I don't buy that story. I think that, Come on, I think that's nonsense. It's a matter of realities. She's in Norway, right? She's not in Venezuela. Is she going to be in Venezuela? Yeah, sure. Look, and also what would happen, here's the thing, if we went ahead and took Maria Perino Machado and said, hey, Maria Carina Machado, you're now running this country, here's the door. What does that do to her and her legitimacy? Now keep in mind, her party won 80, 90% of the vote the last round, the last time around. But even then she had to run as vice president. And the only reason why she couldn't run as president was because Maduro made sure she wasn't on the ballot and did a whole bunch of goofy things with the election. So that's why she wound up being as vice president, not president. But even then the critics would claim, oh, but she was never president. So now how is she? So it's best to allow the Venezuelan community that's in exile, be a sport, to start coming back, have elections again where if she won 80% the last time, then now she should win at least 80 or 90% now in the new election and this time be elected as president. So all of those things I think bode well for her. It's a matter of making sure that it's done right. It's done right the first time. There's also a lot of options now too on the table. Oh my God, what was his name? He just blew my mind. The guy who was president last time.

[Chris Cuomo]

Guaido.

[Rick de la Torre]

Guaido, who was on before me last night, right? Great guy, Juan Guaido.

[Chris Cuomo]

He got a lot of hate by the way, on my comments on social media, a lot of people believe that he was corrupt, that he was chased out of the country for good reason. Now, could some of those people be Maduro plants? And does he have the sophistication to have a troll farm putting out messaging for him? Maybe, but it was pretty concentrated and more present in the interview with him than it was in any of the other clips I put out.

[Rick de la Torre]

Really interesting. Yeah, I'm not surprised about that. You know, I get your points about troll farms. I totally believe it. You know, those things exist. I think one of the challenges I had with, with the opposition, folks was that when you, when you looked at them, when you looked at all of them, right, There was no George Washington or John Adams or Thomas Jefferson in that group. You know? You know, a lot of these guys. A lot of these guys had a lot of ego issues.

[Chris Cuomo]

Yeah, right.

[Rick de la Torre]

A lot of them wanted to. To. To really just be in it for themselves. And the opposition for the longest time, sadly, was. Was being penetrated by. By Maduro and Cuban intel, and you guys easy to manipulate them that way. So it was always very difficult to find the diamond in the rough in that group. But look, Guaido and others have an opportunity now to deal in an open election.

[Chris Cuomo]

So let's pivot from why it's good for them to whether or not it is good for us as America. First, the proposition that the President said, which I dismiss as ego, and Trump being Trump, which is, we're in charge in Venezuela, we're running Venezuela. I'm open to having boots on the ground to secure the oil. These are all terrible ideas, in my opinion. Boots on the ground in Venezuela, as you well know and are about to inform the audience as to why you're asking for bloodshed. There are a lot of capable militarists, groups that will absolutely go ham on whoever is on the ground there, especially if it's American troops and us running Venezuela, seems completely counterproductive and cuckoo. What is your take on those assessments?

[Rick de la Torre]

Yeah, look, I think Trump's comments are more for others that are maybe wanting to take advantage of the situation. And also he's the kind of guy who doesn't want to take anything off the table. He said that he will never say, I will never do that because that's just not his style. Right, I agree. I don't think it's needed. I don't think American troops running the play, standing on every street corner or something like that, that's just not in the cards. I think I Do think it's good for us though, right? I do think all of this is good for us in the United States. I think it's great for the region. You know, like we've commented, yeah, Maduro is a horrible, horrible guy. He's no longer there. That's a good thing in itself. But this is a real game changer on a global scale, not just for the people of Venezuela, not just for the United States. But this changes our leverage with Russia, this changes our leverage with China. There's a lot more good things that come out of this.

[Chris Cuomo]

Why? Look, first of all, I give you some deference on that point. Not just because you understand the situation much better than I ever will, but China had a delegation on the ground. We America operates, extracts. Their response is we're willing to go to court to protect our interests. That is the weakest possible response. They could have offered. Right. They should have said one of two things. One, circa 1960, as Russia did, saying, we're going to help our friends in Venezuela. They need military help and we're going to give it to them. They could have said that they didn't and they could have said, I like your thinking here, and then gone into Taiwan and done the exact same thing. They didn't indicate either of those paths. And that was surprising to me. Was it surprising to you?

[Rick de la Torre]

No, no. Look, the Russians were pulling out already. They had moved their, the folks out of their embass couple weeks ago. The, the Cubans themselves. Same thing. Hey, you know, it's pay for play. Give us oil, we'll help you out. You have nothing to give us. We're turn our backs on you. And for the Chinese, it's all transactional. You know, it's all belt in the road. It's all our investments. They're not going to, they're not going to sacrifice any Chinese PLA soldier or anything like that to fight up against the Americans. Well, I think, you know, look, I think what I meant by, by it being real game changing is this. Right now, today, the United states controls probably 50 more than half of the world's oil supply. With counting Venezuela, that changes the dynamics of things. We could now see a future where a barrel of oil is less than 55 bucks. Or we could keep it at 55 bucks or 40 bucks.

[Chris Cuomo]

Now, where are you, Rick? In terms of the estimates of Venezuelan oil, I totally believe following the chain of reporting that of course it's going to be less because the reporting came from Chavez and then Maduro and they have no reason to Be accurate and to do anything but inflate it, to inflate their own, you know, their own relevancy. But do you share that assessment that they have a lot of oil, but it may be nowhere near the numbers that are being put out there?

[Rick de la Torre]

Yeah, I mean, it could, you're right. It may be what, maybe not the world's largest supply. Could be maybe the world's third largest supply or I'm looking at a total output capable output production. And I know that there needs to be significant investments in their capabilities to pump the oil out of the ground currently. But if you extrapolate from what they used to be running at and their capabilities when the machines were on and they were pumping out the oil, and at that time, I think the US was buying about 20%, was getting 20% of its oil from Venezuela. This is around the time that Chavez started to nationalize things. So whatever that ultimate number is, it's going to be huge. Right? And if we just accept the numbers at the moment, then that still puts us at the number one oil country now, which we were before. But in other words, we control a considerable amount of the world's oil supply. What that means is we now control what that price of oil can.

[Chris Cuomo]

We have more influence. I mean, it's not like we weren't in the oil game before. And it is a world market, which is why gas prices can't come down as fast as Trump promised, because there are a lot of different factors involved. But I give you that support for the Chris Cuomo project comes from Select Quote. Once you're adulting, once you've got people you're responsible for, it becomes is irresponsible to not think about how to take care of them. And when you got to take care of people, you got to have life insurance. Okay? I know it's a little scary. I know that people don't like to think about it. They think it means that something's going to happen. No, it means if something happens, you're covered. Okay? That's why I work with Select Quote. If you go to selectquote.com Chris C. All right, you're going to get a special deal, but more importantly, you're going to get the right service. And I'll tell you why. Select Selectquote is the right company, okay? Not only can you save more than 50% on a plan that they'll lay out for you by going to selectquote.com Chris C. It's not just about saving more than 50%, although that's pretty good on term life insurance. Selectquote.com Chris C. Will give you something else, which is what people who get paid to work best for you, not on how much they sell. Big distinction. Okay? Upselling is a big problem with insurance and right now costs are going up all over the place. So it's a good time to shop because it's not easy to get the best rate. At Select Quote you get veteran brokers who have been trained and who are not getting paid to upsell and that's huge. So whether you are in amazing shape and young, okay? And they can get you same day insurance because they can even waive the medical examination if you require. If you check certain boxes in terms of being young and fit. But no matter if you have a pre existing condition, they work with people that can price that in and still get you coverage. No matter what you need, Select Quote can be there for you and they do it the right way. And if you go to selectquote.com Chris C. It'll be even cheaper. So check out selectquote.com and remember that Chris C. And you'll get a better deal. So let's do some point counterpoint. Put on your citizen politically active person and not just your former CIA hat. This was very arguably illegal what America just did. The reason Biden upped the reward for his arrest was because America couldn't go in there and just take him. Because you need the side sovereign to give its consent for you to do that. This violates international law, arguably violates American law. You disagree?

[LifeLock Advertiser]

Why?

[Rick de la Torre]

Oh, completely. First of all, you're starting with the premise that you're accepting he's a sovereign leader and he wasn't. You know, he lost two elections. Most of the countries in the world never recognized him as being its sovereign leader. They actually recognized, excuse me, Hernandez and Maria Carino Machado. So not him. That's number one. The other thing too is we don't turn to Europe to provide us the guidance on what we should or shouldn't do when it comes to our national defense. There was a warrant out for his arrest and we've done stuff like this before. I know about drawing the comparisons to manuel Noriega in 91 in Panama. But here's a guy who was indicted under federal court and him and his wife and a few others, right? Biden himself was the one who put out a $25 million reward on his head. So what we've done is we doubled the reward. It went from 25 to 50 and then they acted on It. So look, it would have been different, I think, I think it would have been very different if it would have been a full scale Normandy style invasion. We took Maduro, we, we strung them up there in the center plaza, and then American troops stayed behind. That's a very, very different scenario than what occurred. What occurred here was a very surgical strike, military surgical strike. We went into a country that was not cooperating with the United States on matters of international law, of matters of stopping drugs. It would have been very different if the government of Venezuela said, hey, you know what? What? We agree this guy's not our leader, so we're offering him up to the United States. Take him. Okay. Obviously they're not going to do that because he's the leader, but we went ahead and we exercised, you know, that activity by, by arresting him and we took him back to court. Right. So now he's sitting in a New York jail cell and he's going to have his date in court.

[Chris Cuomo]

I know, but that doesn't make the arrest legal. And why not? Okay, here's why. Here's the argument. And again, this isn't just sophistry and it's not just playing to details. I get that if you are Venezuelan or South American, but living here in the United States or there, you see this as an unqualified good thing, he's a bad guy. There was a moral imperative and America did it. Okay, I'm saying put that to the side. Because even if it was the right thing to do, you still have to do it the right way. Way. And there is no example, except ones that are very legally dubious, where we've been sued for it and actually had people convicted in the past, although in absentia, they, you know, they, they never got hands on any Americans to hold them accountable. Where if the home country that you're going into doesn't say, yes, come on in, it gets very dicey legally, very quickly. Just because the guy is indicted here doesn't mean you can go get him somewhere else. And, and using the military to do it probably put a requirement on the President that he didn't satisfy until afterwards. So legally, I think that there is absolutely an open question. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some kind of international action. But now here goes to the second one. I got three points. That's the first one. The second one is this the Don Row Doctrine. I think one needs a little bit of background on what it sounds like, which is the Monroe Doctrine. Monroe Doctrine. You know this, of course, Rick, but For everybody else, Monroe Doctrine, President Monroe, leader of a weak country. Okay? America was weak at the time, and they were saying, please don't come into our backyard and colonize. Stop colonizing, please. Because we're trying to get our own footing. And it's really, you've done enough. And it's kind of a problem. It was. It was put out by him as a policy statement. It was never a law, and it never had any teeth because he didn't have any bite. Then you had what this is really kind of like, which is the Teddy Roosevelt corollary to the Monroe Doctrine, which is where Teddy, who was now in charge of a very different America, said, if any shit happens in my backyard, I love to fight. And I especially love to fight in South America. And. And I am spoiling for that. And I am the policeman, I am the sheriff, and if anything happens here, I'm coming. That's what this sounds like. Here's my problem with it. Okay? Let's say it makes your muscles puff up, it makes your chest puff up. And you're like, that's right. This is who America is, baby. All right, then, who's next? Now there's all these. Of course, Trump will never say no because of what you said. Stylistically, he just likes the options there. He thinks it makes him more dangerous, you know, more volatile. You know, someone who has to be taken seriously because you never know what he's gonna do. Okay, so now you have all these people saying, and Colombia should be next and Mexico should be next and Cuba should be next. I don't know how any of that is good for America, and least of which is that he promised to stop doing these kinds of things, that he had learned the lesson of going abroad and doing nothing but losing blood and treasure, and he would focus here at home. How do you deal with those, The Don Row Doctrine and what this was supposed to be about under President Trump?

[Rick de la Torre]

Well, you know, right off the bat, I tell you, you should have been. You would have been a great high school history teacher, right? I would have paid. I would have definitely paid more attention then. I think that the. The argument that the. That his usage of the Monroe Doctrine or his usage of saying, hey, Western hemisphere is our backyard, we want, you know, we want all those foreign powers out of our backyard. Especially obviously, the adversarial ones, the China, Russias, Iran's and others. The argument there is we kind of liberated Venezuela from being colonized not so much by us. Right? And definitely not by us. But being colonized by the Cubans, if you look at it, because it really was the Cuban government was the one that propped up and has maintained them in power even after Maduro lost elections. So the Cuban intelligence, and then. So if anything, the real colonizers there are is not China and Russia, but it's actually the Cuban government. So now we've hopefully taken that out of the equation and we're going to get the Venezuelans an opportunity to do things on their own, and we're going to stay by and make sure that's the case. There's no doubt. Look, he turned Venezuela into the launching pad had for the Russians, the Chinese, Hamas, Hezbollah, they were all working there. They were all there. Right? And they weren't just sitting there in Venezuela twiddling their thumbs and happy and content to be in Venezuela. No. From there they ran active operations against the United States in different parts of Latin America. And then they took advantage of our immigration policy when we had an open border border. And they made sure that people fleeing Venezuela and Colombia and other places had a real easy access into the United States. Not to mention what they've done on the Colombian border with the farc, eln, with seminar, Marketalia and all these other Colombian terrorist groups. Maduro, that's where he made his money, him and the Cartel de Soles. And that's what really made him an illegitimate leader. He allowed these terrorists were wanted in Colombia across the border, live in his jungles, run their criminal operations as long as they kicked up money to him and his generals. So now I'm wondering what's going to happen now, right now that the US Government is in Venezuela? What's going to happen with those terrorists in Venezuela? Are they going to go back to Colombia and what's Colombia going to do about it? Are they going to accept them open, do you think?

[Chris Cuomo]

Think. Would you be okay with America playing a little hopscotch around South America right now? And look, you could make the same argument that this is exactly what we were doing in the Middle East. The argument against the Middle east was always that's over there. Okay, so you don't have the that's over there argument as easily here because it is obviously much more proximate. But would you be okay with them saying, well, hey, by the way, this was Cuba, and the people in Cuba are pretty fucking oppressed and Castro's gone, but they're really not gone as a regime. So we're going down there and we're gonna get the Bay of Pigs.

[Rick de la Torre]

Right?

[Chris Cuomo]

Which will prove that Trump is better than Kennedy in his mind.

[Rick de la Torre]

Yeah, yeah, that's one way of looking at it. No, look, I don't think anyone's calling for that. I don't think anyone's okay with hopscotch diplomacy. Right. You know, we're gonna, we're gonna topple these one after the other. No, I, I, I don't think, I'm not right with it. I don't think anyone really is falling for that. We're just calling, you know, we're just calling balls of strikes, right? You, you, you can't, you, you can't put on the hat or the sash in this case, I guess in Venezuela.

[Chris Cuomo]

Is the pun intended there, Rick, ball and strikes. Because nobody was calling for the strike on Maduro either. And it happened.

[Rick de la Torre]

Right, but, well, I, yeah, I'll tell you one thing. Yeah. I was calling for a strike on, on Maduro, you know, for a while, just because of the danger that he, that he was, of what he, you know, what he was doing, you know, in the region and to ourselves. There's a lot of leftist organizations here in the United States.

[Chris Cuomo]

That's true.

[Rick de la Torre]

A lot of, a lot of, a lot of crazy. I'm not talking about leftist. I'm talking crazy leftists like, like, like the, you know, the, the anarchist types, right? The burn it down types that were getting, you know, their training and their funding and open arms from places in Venezuela. Well.

[Chris Cuomo]

Support for the Chris Cuomo project comes from Irestore. Now, are you into your hair? And when I say into it, I mean like keeping it and having it look as good as it can. I am all right. And I am a little slow on pharmaceuticals, so that's why I got into iRestore. The Revive Plus Max growth kit. It is a whole health care hair care lineup in one place. You got a thickening shampoo works. You've got a thickening conditioner, works. I know because I use them. They have the growth serum, the growth activator serum. And all I know is that my hair looked good and people said it while I was using the serum. And you have the advanced hair growth formula, which is everything you need in terms of the right vitamins, the right supplementation for healthier, fuller hair. Now then you have the turbo aspect of this, okay? Looks like a bike helmet, but it isn't, okay? It is the elite device. And I have to tell you, I did a lot of research on red light LED therapy. There is science behind it, okay? And I have to tell you, when I wear it and in the time I've been Doing this. There's no other reason that my hair, hair has stayed or even gotten a little thicker than all this stuff that I'm doing, right? Because I'm 55 years old. It's not like time, you know, it's like I'm growing into having more hair. If anything, I'm in the period where you start to lose it. So by working with Irestore, I think that I'm slowing it at a minimum and maybe just doing better for myself. It's a new year. It's a good time to try something new. Iris store is here to help, and they're having a big, big new year sale. Use the code Cuomo. Tell [e-mail] that I sent you. Cuomo sent you. And you can unlock an exclusive discount on the most expensive item, which is the Irestore elite. That's that LED light helmet that I use. All right, the code cuomoirestore.com tell them I sent you. I, I totally get it. You got plenty of crazy to go go around. I mean, I know the CIA doesn't operate within the American borders, but the idea of domestic terrorism should be real and realized certainly by this podcast audience. I talk about it all the time. The, the number one threat is, of course, far right, but you now have a recent spate of lefty violence far left. We got crazies all around. No question. I'm just saying my concern with this is. And again, I can't believe Trump. Trump has us in this situation because this is what he campaigned against, by the way. But if your arguments are taken seriously by the administration, well, then why didn't they do this in Mexico? Mexico is the gateway for fentanyl, not Venezuela.

[Rick de la Torre]

Look, hey, Morena party. And by the way, I suspect when Maduro gets some time with. Has some time with doj, just with DOJ attorney, and the deals start getting cut. And hey, what do you know? We're going to learn a lot more about the monies which politicians in Latin America and maybe, who knows, maybe here in the United States and elsewhere. Where has this money gone, right? Who else has benefited from this? I will say I suspect there's a lot in the Moreno Party that have. But again, that's an elected government, right? People show up at the polls, they vote, they honor those elections. Same thing in Colombia. I think Petro's a scumbag. That guy is horrible, right? He's a drug addict, a drunk, a real Marxist guerrilla. He's taken a country that was our closest ally in the war. Against drugs, in the fight against terrorists. And he's almost made it incontineuous, turning it into another Venezuela. And even then, I believe in the institutions of democracy within Colombia and I believe in the Colombian people and those institutions now in May, when the election is, will hopefully show that they're strong enough to withstand. Now, my opinion will change come May. The election shows that he doesn't like who won because he can't run again. But let's say he or he decides that he's going to stay and go counter to the Colombian constitution. Well, then at that stage my opinion is going to change very quickly. And there's no reason why we should tolerate this stuff now in the 21st century. We should should it.

[Chris Cuomo]

The president. The president would give you several reasons. The president would have given you several reasons before. In my opinion, what's really driving this, in my opinion, what's really driving this is a combination of Trump liking the might is right. He likes it. He likes that as a model. And two, he has problems domestically. It is no coincidence that the day after or two days after Venezuela, he's saying the stock market's up. Thank you for the tariffs. The tariffs are not why the stock market is up. They're a problem. Our economy for the majority of Americans is a problem when it comes to affordability. He knows it. This is easier for him. But this is a guy who would have cut you off a long time ago with these arguments. He would have been like, nah, nah, nah, unless they give us the oil, unless it's really easy, unless somebody else does the fighting, stay out of it. These places are all sinkholes. Look what happened in the Middle East. East, that was a big part of the MAGA coalition. He's got a lot of people in his base right now who just saw something that is not easy for them to defend. Even though Maduro's a bad guy, there are a lot of bad guys, Rick. We were supposed to stay out of that, that job of being the world's policeman.

[Rick de la Torre]

Right, but how can you compare what just happened a couple days ago to a full scale military invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan? I mean, it's completely different.

[Chris Cuomo]

It is completely different until it isn't. Also, look, it matters. I know it's a lowercase concern for a lot of people right now, but Venezuelans died and not just his protectors. And houses got broken up.

[Rick de la Torre]

Those are Cubans. Those are Cuban bodyguards.

[Chris Cuomo]

All right, fine, they got, they got killed. But look, there are all these reports coming out of civilians dying and being hurt. Now maybe Venezuela says we're okay with it, but the idea that it was bloodless isn't True.

[Rick de la Torre]

True.

[Chris Cuomo]

And it's a good move until it isn't. I just, I can't get past the, I can't get past the contradiction of what he said his policy was, which is stay out of it. I've heard him say there's scumbags all over the place. Scumbags all over the place, man. If you do a deal with them, you do a deal with them. Otherwise stay out of it. Just stick home. The more you do at home, the better. This is the opposite.

[Rick de la Torre]

Yeah, look, I think, I think in this case, and I agree with you in the sense of that transactional kind of president where what's in it for the United States? How do we benefit from this? And we've already talked about this, I think we've checked those boxes. But today, as of Monday morning, the world shifted in the sense of we no longer, longer concerned that much about the China, Russia threat coming to us from our own hemisphere. Right. We kind of got off that landing pad for them. And secondly, now we can control global markets when it comes to oil. So I know we were certainly energy independent before we got into this, but now we're controlling where there are places where they need to oil right away way. We've got a lot more control about that. What does that mean? To me that translates, now you've got more leverage when it comes to say negotiations with Russia on Ukraine. Right, right. You've got more leverage. You've got more leverage now when it comes to dealing in Southeast Asia with China too.

[Chris Cuomo]

Right.

[Rick de la Torre]

And notice they completely decimated the Chinese weapon systems within seconds. Right. Nobody knew the, the Americans were there. So everyone who's been buying Chinese arms, arms over the years and oh, this is what we're going to use to defend ourselves, they got sold crap. None of that stuff works.

[Chris Cuomo]

Why doesn't your argument extend as easily other than the sending a message about American military superiority over China, which I do think is a legitimate message that was sent. Why don't you make the same argument about Saudi Arabia bad people. Most of the guys on 911 were Saudis. Osama bin Laden was Saudi bad. They are the head of the snake. They are the home of Wahhabism. They have all this control over oil. Take them out. Take them out. Bad guys.

[Rick de la Torre]

Yeah, look, if this, I would, I would agree with you. If, if the, if the Saudi government, right, was, was working with the Chinese to undermine us or working with the Russians directly To undermine us. Look, I'm not one of these globalists, right? Certainly not. Right. There's no global sovereign. My value system is very different than say, someone from Saudi Arabia, definitely someone from China or Russia, the way I look at life. So we're not all the same. I do believe in right and wrong, but like you said, we make deals sometimes with folks that we don't want to make deals with. We have to pinch our nose and move forward. The Saudis aren't a physical threat to us.

[Chris Cuomo]

Us.

[Rick de la Torre]

They're not building a navy. They're not trying to take canals away or, or, or, you know, or enslave people with belt and road. So if the Saudi people have a problem with their system of government, okay, you know, let them, you know, let them voice that as best they can and do what they, you know, and do what they have to do. Right. You know, and I'm not calling for anything. I'm not calling for anything violent or anything like that, but I'm just saying that, that, that's just the reality of the world, right? It becomes our issue issue when it's targeted towards us. And that's what this guy was doing. So he can't play victim, right? You can't say, oh my God, Yankee imperialism. Look at what you guys are doing to me. But all the while, you know, he's letting you know, he's actively not letting, he's actively involved in having drugs come up into our country. You know, he's giving oil to our enemies. Right. He's providing them the resources to, you know, to spread their hate and violence throughout the rest of the hemisphere sphere. So, you know, if there were other world leaders doing the same thing, he would, he. That Maduro was doing. Yeah, I'd have no problem with it.

[Chris Cuomo]

Rick, I really appreciate your expertise, the depth of perspective and the arguments.

[Rick de la Torre]

It's not that deep.

[Chris Cuomo]

It is. It is for me.

[Rick de la Torre]

It's common, sensical in a lot of ways. Go on. Well, you know, you and I, we look at things the same way. We really do. We really do.

[Chris Cuomo]

Well, except you have decades of perspective of being on the ground and knowing the players and knowing what was behind what was behind what I learned about. So that's why I wanted you on. That's why I hope to continue our conversations. And look, it doesn't matter if I agree or disagree with the assessment. It's what the basis of it is and how that feeds our understanding of the situation overall. I mean, our biggest problem, in my opinion in America right now is is we have forgotten how to disagree and. Exactly. And either you are all in on Venezuela and this was the best thing ever or Trump is a Nazi and this was a huge violation and America is dead. And if you don't fit into one of those, they both hate you. So I'm happy to have you on. I appreciate your perspective and I look forward to doing it again.

[Rick de la Torre]

Yeah, anytime, brother.

[Chris Cuomo]

Now, do I agree with all of his assessments? No. Does that mean I know better than him? No, absolutely not. But I don't have to agree even if I don't have the experience that he does, because I'm living it and I have a right to my own opinion. But in hearing what Rick has to say, it can only help you understand the context of this situation and why the President decided to do what he just did and what the risks are with what it just did. And you even heard Rick say, hey, you better not keep doing this. This was a one off in his opinion. Is he right? We'll see. Now why don't I just have one side represented all the time? Because I don't think that's how you feed being a critical thinker. That's why I'm selling shirts that say critical thinker. Did you forget to get a present for somebody for Christmas after the holidays? Is there somebody you wanted to take care of? Not in a huge way, but just in a little way. Go to the store. Look at the link. Go to the store. I am different. What does that mean? Mean I'm not just going to gobble up whatever one side wants me to. I'm not just going to see things in a simple one sided way. Things are more complicated than that. It's not as easy as these people working you on social media want it to be. I am different. I am a critical thinker. There are all these great things there and different things that you love to wear. It's good quality stuff. It's not expensive. And remember what I want to do with the money, I want to use it. Crowdsource contributions to causes we can all feel good about. My like what? Like people helping the kids who are affected by the war in Gaza and elsewhere. Like people whose stories come to light about their need and how they're representative of a majority of families in this country and our ability to help one. And if you help one, you kind of put the message out there about what's happening to the many. So that's why I'm doing it. And I appreciate you in advance helping me do it by buying the gear and also wearing your own independence and showing that you're a free agent. Got a shirt that says that too. And that you are a critical thinker. That you're not another mouth breather, another lemming, someone who's just going to pick a side and go all in, all the time, in every way. Life's not that simple. Politics isn't that simple. And the more we try to make it that way, the worse things are getting. So thank you for subscribing and following. Thank you for being with me in this new year. I'll check you out on News Nation 8P and mid pitch night every weekday night. And I'll see you here in the Chris Cuomo Project. And I got some cool announcements coming up, so stay tuned.

[Rick de la Torre]

Hablas Espanol spries to Deutsch?

[Chris Cuomo]

Come on.

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[Rick de la Torre]

World.

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