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- [00:00]
Chris Cuomo
Comedians can make pretty good social critics, and I have one that you are going to want to know about. I'm Chris Cuomo. Welcome to the Chris Cuomo Project. Ami Kozak. There are few spaces as hot and as difficult to navigate as there is when it comes to the Israeli Palestinian conflict, but really bigger, just Israel. Israel is under attack, literally and politically. And we're seeing that here at home in America, let alone in the Middle East. Ami has a really interesting take as a super sophisticated, sophisticated, smart Orthodox Jew who uses humor through these really uncanny impersonations that he does to dig into arguments about anti Zionism and anti Semitism. And it's a really interesting approach to a really controversial space. So I wanted to talk to Ami about the growth he's seen in his following and what he thinks matters and what he believes is going to come next. And it got pretty deep. Ami, thank you for taking the opportunity.
- [01:11]
Ami Kozak
Good to be with you, Chris. Thank you for having me.
- [01:13]
Chris Cuomo
Why are you all over my for you page?
- [01:17]
Ami Kozak
Well, I work very hard to be undeniable in the algorithm, so I'm a force to be reckoned with out there, and I hope I can bring you some levity in this cool, crazy time.
- [01:27]
Chris Cuomo
So you got a lot of different talents.
- [01:30]
Ami Kozak
Thank you.
- [01:31]
Chris Cuomo
My oldest, who's a musician, turned me on to you as a basist, and then I realized that you have become somewhat of a political satirist. What did you. What motivated you to enter this space and what are you about in this space?
- [01:51]
Ami Kozak
So, yes, actually, it's so interesting you discovered me as a musician, which is weird. The universe has interesting plans for us. I've been a musician for over 15 years, professional musician, producing music for film and television. I play in a band called Distant Cousins. And a couple of years ago I got into the comedy space making content first on TikTok. And when everything shut down during COVID and all the live shows shut down, I kind of doubled down on that and was making a lot of content, impressions, bits and sketches. And then fast forward. I was able to build a comedy audience on that. I moved from LA to New York a couple years ago and got into the standup world. Then came October 7th. Now, I wasn't always overtly political in my comedy. I always saw it as a place to just come and laugh, you know, fun for everyone. But I mean, I wasn't shy about my political opinions, but it wasn't overtly that. But then after October 7th, you know, everyone had this October 8th moment, and I'm an Orthodox Jew. I Have family in Israel. I have friends in Israel. But I found myself in a world where entertainment alone didn't suffice, given that we can only entertain each other in a world where everybody respects each other's basic human decency. And I felt like there was a very big moral confusion that took over, particularly the west, after October 7th in not being able to identify the good and evil in that situation. So I took to my platform and spoke out about it. And turns out that my ability to provide some moral clarity on the issue was very helpful in clarifying for a lot of people. And I continue to be outspoken about that, about Israel, about anti Semitism as I see it today. So it's kind of a fusion of those two. And I thought it was a departure, but it kind of brought me full swing into a whole world of things.
- [03:25]
Chris Cuomo
How old are you?
- [03:26]
Ami Kozak
38.
- [03:27]
Chris Cuomo
How much has your following grown since October 7th?
- [03:33]
Ami Kozak
So initially, it took a little dip, and I discovered that apparently I had a whole fan base of people who like Jordan Peterson impressions, who like bass guitar, and who like comedy, but also like Hamas. So I was like, that's a strange, strange sliver there that I didn't realize was following me. But, you know, you lose about 15,000, then you gain, you know, 30,000 more, and you're able to really deepen your relationship with the community. You find out who your real people are. And, yeah, I found that. Thankfully, I wasn't tied to a lot of brands who were cowardly about not wanting me to speak out about Israel. I was pretty independent and just kind of speaking what I felt was true and authentic and couldn't avoid this topic in the world that we found ourselves in, where it felt like things were just kind of broken and needed that kind of repair. And it's been growing since. And both the comedy and using the comedy in a satirical way, because I feel like you can comment on something and shed truth about it, but comedy has a good way of really shining a bright, bright light on what is wrong with a situation.
- [04:34]
Chris Cuomo
Yes, it's definitely an ingredient. It just should be a condiment, not an entree. It should be like salt or cumin. It shouldn't be steak, which is what a lot of our politics has become. When you say you're Orthodox, is that newfound depth of faith, or have you always lived this way and what does that mean for the uninitiated?
- [04:59]
Ami Kozak
The uninitiated. I have always been a modern Orthodox Jew. So modern Orthodox, meaning we keep Sabbath, we keep kosher. I live in a community of modern Orthodox Jews. We also go to movies. We're familiar with pop culture. We learn both science, math, technology in schools and Judaic studies. So it's always this kind of marriage of both secular subjects and traditional Jewish subjects. And learning to balance that into an integrated life is what it means to be a modern Orthodox Jew, where you don't have to throw out your traditional values, but you don't have to throw out modernity. E you can find a balance. And I've always been that way, along that path. And I think for a lot of people, especially Jews in the Diaspora outside of Israel, I was very grateful to have had that foundation, because for a lot of people in the Jewish community that I know that didn't have that, they found themselves wondering, like, am I a part of this world that is now hated or that is now being demonized? What does it mean to me? And having that foundation and being able to articulate why I care about these issues, I very, very grateful to have that foundation and that education. And for me, it just sort of reignited a sort of sense of Jewish consciousness and it moved everybody a little bit. So even for me, who was already very much in this world, it was very hard to be insincere after October 7th. Everything felt very real. Everything felt almost biblical. If you were ever cynical beforehand about talking about spiritual issues or religious issues, somehow it did not feel cynical anymore. It didn't feel fluffy or it felt meaningful and infusing things with meaning and purpose. I think for a lot of people, and including myself in the Zionist and Orthodox community, but also outside of that, it was sort of this call, this awakening to fulfill yourself with a little more meaning and direction.
- [06:39]
Chris Cuomo
Do you feel that the needle is moving away from being pro Israeli of seeing attacks on Jews and towards being against what Israel is doing in Gaza and that it's not anti Semitism to be against what Israel is doing and to think Bibi Netanyahu is a war criminal and that this is a genocide.
- [07:06]
Ami Kozak
Listen, 18 months to 20 months into a conflict where you've been bombarded by the optics of war, which any war, just or unjust, would look comparable, would look similar. There is no war in history, the most just war in the world that everyone would get behind that wouldn't have images like this. When you see this and you see it for 20 months, and if it's October 8th, if it's November of 2023, I find it a little less forgivable for you to not know who the good guys are and the Bad guys are. And I still maintain that Israel's on the right side of this, and I'd make that case. But if you're coming to this after being bombarded by propaganda, by manipulation, by distortions of information, and you don't know anything about this, I can have a little bit of grace and sympathy for people who are just kind of seeing bombardments of horrible images of war. And they should be empathetic. They should. It's natural for them to feel for human suffering. We don't want them to have the opposite reaction to that. But I make it a habit to make sure that I clarify who's accountable for that suffering. And it's undeniable to me that as we talk about this issue, there are hostages still in Gaza. Hamas has yet to surrender. They initiated this recent military campaign that brought on this war. Everyone who's perished in the last year was alive on October 4th, 5th and 6th. We must never forget that. And then you can get into military critiques, tactical critiques, what's more effective? But you must never forget what the standard is in a war, and that is victory over your enemies who are evil. Hamas is evil. The regimes that fund it is evil. They stand for values that are antithetical to the Western world, that are antithetical to all those people who want to stand up for innocent, suffering Palestinians, but they align themselves with people who perpetuate that suffering. And I kind of make two distinctions there. And so I don't judge someone who's coming into this not knowing anything about this conflict or the region, and all they've seen is human suffering. It's a very easy thing for them to get pushed into believing something not true. So I try to make distinctions and be discerning between the sort of movable middle that is swaying and people who are bad actors and nefarious actors out there. Also, whether it's public opinion or not, at the end of the day, right is right and just is just. And if we go by only public opinion and public opinion alone to determine morality, well, morality is not always popular, and the good guys are not always popular, so that can't be the driving force. But I do what I can to be the conduit, to try to provide some clarity.
- [09:26]
Chris Cuomo
As this goes on, it seems that the needle is moving. Specifically in the Democratic Party. It seems that that was always the home of most Jews politically. And now it seems like the populism there sees Israel, but also Jews, as more of the white establishment and the oppressor class.
- [09:52]
Ami Kozak
Well, you know, Jordan Peterson always used to talk about how Jews are their canary in the coal mine. You know, it's like, well. And he points out that in a Western society that's collapsing upon itself, if you look at the enemies of the United States and the west, they can't necessarily defeat us militarily, but what they can do is turn a society against itself. It's sort of an old Soviet tactic whereby you can turn a population against itself to lose faith in its own morality, to lose faith in its own moral superiority to regimes that are far less moral and less just and do not protect human rights. So Israel is sort of, to me, that first step. You can paint it in this oppressor, oppressed narrative. You see prosperity, you see power, you see a high standard of living. They must be the bad guys. And I actually think a lot of this stems from the university apparatus by which you have all these administrators and professors who are the intellectuals in society and they feel that they should be running things, that they should have more power, that they should have more control. And who's the first testing ground for that is impressionable young students who when they get to school, say, oh, plot twist. America's the bad guy, Israel's the bad guy. The west is actually evil. Did you know? And they play into this kind of seductive narrative that flips all of their traditional values of the students and makes the administrators in the professoriate class feel powerful. And because the last people they can influence before they go out into the world are these students. And you see that now, students who protest in the streets and align themselves with regimes that would not protect their rights to do so in those countries. And this sort of, this fetish, it has to be a lot of what I call fu mom energy. It's a lack of gratitude, it's looking at all these things that they have all this prosperity and they sort of want to turn around and resent the world that's blessed them with that. A lot of these people protesting are in fact, you know, upper middle class, college educated graduate school students. And I think that as it turns on Israel, it's really a deeper thing about turning against countries that are powerful, countries that are prosperous, that have high standards of living. And there's a resentment because if you believe the world is inherently unjust, right, and exploitative, then none of that stuff can be achieved legitimately. It's all moral relativism. No country, no culture is better than another. And so there's a seductive nature to that. Unimpressionable young minds to want to flip the script. And at the end of the day, I think if you have integrity and tell the truth as you see it, in the long run, you will succeed. And you know, I don't. I am concerned and I have my eyes on it. But my impulse isn't to be hysterical. I kind of, you kind of stay the course even through the storm.
- [12:24]
Chris Cuomo
What's the line between anti Zionism and antisemitism?
- [12:30]
Ami Kozak
So I think that it's an interesting thing because it is possible to possess certain anti Semitic ideas or perpetuate anti Semitic ideas without necessarily realizing it. Because antisemitism is such a deep historical hatred, it goes back such a long way, for thousands of years, for millennia, that when you don't realize the pattern that you're falling into Jewish control of, you know, when you see it on the far right, you know, the banks behind the media, you know, if there had never been a holocaust or pogroms or inquisitions, we could look at that in a vacuum and say, okay, it's interesting that these narratives are there. Where do they come from? But as Jews, you know, we have these antennas on because we've seen this play out before in recent history. And so there's like the far right version of it and we've seen it happen. And I'm all for, I'm not one of these people who was sort of on the left calling out every criticism or every societal ill as attributed to racism or anti Semitism. I think even a lot of Jews on the left who were of the left kind of jumped on that bandwagon. And I think the term anti Semitism therefore lost a lot of cultural power. But that doesn't mean that when we do see it, because we're so reactionary to not wanting to be part of cancel culture, we don't call out basic lack of human distancing and racism and antisense. When we do see it, I think we can walk and chew gum at the same time. Back to your question. Anti Zionism and anti Semitism. Look, you know, if you're against all nation states, if you don't believe in the right for self determination for any people, for the Japanese and Japan, for Indians in India, for Chinese in China, if you don't believe in any of those self determinist movements, then you, I guess you can be consistent and say no peoples have the right to self determination or ancestral indigenous rights or connections to their homeland. But if you just focus on Israel and you only criticize Israel and you're not bothered by any of the far worse actors in the world that commit far worse human rights abuses. If you exclusively focus on Israel for your criticism, that's one sign that it crosses the line. The other thing is that critiques of Israeli policy, critiques of Bibi Netanyahu, ask any Israeli in Tel Aviv if they're anti Semitic. It would be ridiculous. Part of Israeli society, Israeli press and Israeli protest culture is about dissent and criticizing Israel as a government, criticizing policy. But that's not what most of these people do. They want to destroy, destroy the only Jewish state on earth and they want to dismantle it. And they won't be satisfied for anyone else. And some of them hide behind, oh, I'm just against foreign aid, but really, you don't go screaming about foreign aid to Pakistan or Egypt or any other country. Somehow the singular scapegoat, as has Jews have been as a people throughout history, the singular scapegoat manifested in the form of a state is the Jewish one. When there's 20 some odd Arab states and 50 some odd Muslim states. If you look at the Middle east, the Arabs pretty much won. And there's one sliver of the side of New Jersey and that animates the world like nothing. You know, it's. That's where it crosses the line for me. And it's very obvious that if you just kind of zoom out from bird's eye view, what's really going on.
- [15:36]
Chris Cuomo
Support comes from smalls. Listen, they're not just pets anymore, okay? Fur fam is a real thing. If you've got a cat, it's not just a cat. It's basically your kid. Okay? Maybe even more than that. We won't get into it. But here's the point. We want to take care of our fur fam. And that starts really and ends in terms of the major influence you have on their lives with two things. Food and affection. Okay, now affection is up to you. Food is where Smalls comes in. They have taken the time to make sure that the food isn't crap.
- [16:16]
Ami Kozak
Cat food.
- [16:17]
Chris Cuomo
Food is often garbage. And now you can also expand from just Smalls regular diet to treats and snacks. Eight out of ten plus have said that they have seen positive changes in their cat's health and in their behavior and their zeal to eat. What are you waiting for? Give your cat the food they deserve. For a limited time because you're a crazy Chris Cuomo project listener. You can get 60 off your first smalls order, plus free shipping. Just go to smalls.com cuomo 60 off smalls.com cuomo free shipping again smalls.com cuomo I wish it weren't BB in power right now, even though he is arguably especially suited to conflict. You know, he was in such deep water before this and for good reason and you know, he was being investigated for heavy shit for good reason. And I think that it would have been a different set of politics if there was someone who was regarded as less hostile. But you don't get to choose people in the mix. You know, you just, you, you, you, you go with where you find it. And I do believe there's a couple litmus tests you identified one which is is there any other country that you think shouldn't exist? And the second one is have you ever called on Hamas to end the war?
- [17:59]
Ami Kozak
A lot of people are not who claim to be speaking on behalf of Palestinians, are not pro Palestinian or pro a Palestinian state or pro Palestinian self determination. They are anti Israel, they are anti a Jewish state. And in fact most of the Palestinianism that Anat Wolf talks about, which is the movement that Israel's been combating against, is about one side wanting to live as a Jewish state and the other side not wanting that country to live as a Jewish state and to be dismantled. There was no efforts to create a Palestinian state between 48 and 67. So this has always been about destroying Israel, not about creating Palestine. Now, now I'll push back a little bit on the Bibi thing. Not because I'm stumping for Bibi in any way. First of all, I think that's very disrespectful to talk about me, Bibi Netanyahu, the Prime minister. I think that is incredibly disrespectful that you say that. Chris, I've always appreciated your advocacy, but to call me out for being, I mean this is just ridiculous. So we are in a war rising lion. But I will say this, Bibi, you can talk about the minutiae, the granular details of Israel in terms of policy, in terms of who's in charge, which party, but those are all marginal issues and it doesn't really put enough emphasis on the fundamental issue. If you took out every, if you uprooted every community in the west bank, in Judea and Sumeria, if you got rid of Bibi and put in a far left party, all of the enemies of Israel would still exist and want to destroy it. Iran would still be funding terror to try to destroy Israel. Hamas would still be there. Hezbollah would have still been there, Bibi or not Bibi. Because again, again, if you had two rational actors who both want the same things and were acting as moral equals in this conflict. You could say one is more of a barrier and doesn't want and one doesn't. But the whole peace process delusion rests on the assumption that Israel and its enemies in Hamas are moral equals, that they both want the same thing, but they don't. If you took Bibi out of the equation and put in a different leader, you remember all the people slaughtered, a majority of them on October 7th were peaceniks. They were activists. They hated Bibi. It made no difference to the Hamas terrorists who took them hostage, village, raped them, killed them, burned them alive. I think if you took Bibi out, that is just not the fundamental issue. We can disagree or agree on his policies, but that's a conversation we have internally amongst, you know, people who share Western values. And I. I just don't think that would do anything. The real issue that needs to be addressed is the unwillingness of the Palestinian side to accept living alongside a Jewish state. Look at all the leaders in the Arab world or in. In Gaza, who is. Who has. Who has risen up and spoken about coexistence and peace. And we blame Bibi as the extreme guy or the people Shmulch and Ben gvir. I'm not saying I agree with all of them, but they are just not representative. So it's a matter of degree. It's just not representative about what Israelis want versus I think, unfortunately, what a lot of seemingly Palestinians would want is to not live alongside the Yahud, the Jewish state.
- [20:46]
Chris Cuomo
Perception in politics is often reality. And if you're explaining, you're losing. And I think that that's why I see the needle shift in terms of the optics. And then I think that's also being reflected in something I've seen you start to act on, which is what's happening on the left in this country. What bothers you about it so much? And I've talked to people, you know, at News Nation. I didn't cover my brother's race because obviously it would make no sense. But I have been open in telling people that I was not liking the prospects of my brother running as a Democrat. Although, you know, he will argue very strenuously. He is. I would just argue that the party has left him and you be better off running against the party. But these are his choices in his life. I just support him and love him.
- [21:36]
Ami Kozak
You don't tell me what to do, Chris. You don't tell your brother what to do. Sorry, I don't know if that's accurate.
- [21:41]
Chris Cuomo
I tell you what, I think that you are 15% too high. But you have the intonation.
- [21:47]
Ami Kozak
Okay, okay, so a little lower. Okay, you know better than I do you certainly a little Jewish, but I can't. Well, I can't help that I'm not Italian. What can I tell you?
- [21:56]
Chris Cuomo
We do sound Jewish. I proudly, you know, my close cousins, close cousins, all Italians and Jews where I grew up, I have two Jewish brothers in law, a family that I choose. Many are Jewish. When people have said to me, you know, you're an ally, so I can't take you seriously, I say, no, I'm definitely an ally. If you're asking me whether or not I think Jews have the right to exist within their own country, yes, I am an ally to that cause, as I am for any ethnicity and their place of domicile. But what do you see happening in the left that has you exercise and has you using your platform form to go after what's being promised? What bothers you about it?
- [22:36]
Ami Kozak
Well, I mean, if I'm taking an analytical approach, when I watch it, I think that people have seen a Trump victory and the continuing loss of establishment, moderate, centrist candidates in the Democratic Party. And they're looking at it going, you see, every single time you try these establishment candidates, the tried and true of the baby boomer generations, the politics of the 90s and early 2000s, we lose the. And I know that a lot of people were celebrating the sort of woke burst bubble of Trump's victory in 2024. I was too. But when you look at New York City and you see, wait a minute, there's also the populist element, there's the emotional resonance. That's why Trump is so popular. His charisma, his persuadability, his ability to connect with the audience. And that unfortunately, it's powerful, but it's not based in necessarily like principles and ideas are a platform. It's based on charisma and it's not even based on ideology. But if you pair that charisma with the wrong ide, then you get a lot of danger. Then you get your Hugo Chavez and Maduro and Mamdani. And a lot of times we've called a lot of Democrats socialist, Dick. We've called them leftists and Marxists. And here's a guy who's saying, I am one. So that's, I guess, the silver lining. We're not exaggerating here. We have a real socialist. You have the AOC far left, part of the movement that's saying it's our turn, we're gonna get our victory. Now look how the populism on the right worked, it's gonna work on the left. And I think people are seeing that. And it's very, I mean, socialist ideas are always seductive. They always work on young minds who don't have experience growing up in the world and paying taxes and doing those things and being not educated. Coming out of the university, you have now a whole base, you have a whole demographic of people who've been educated and indoctrinated to believe, to ignore the atrocities of the 20th century of socialist and communist regimes and say, hey, these all sound like fresh new ideas, even though they are old, recycled, long debunked, immoral, evil ideas. And so, so that's what I see happening, that they're going to double down and we're going to see an AOC type AOC 2028, because they're going to see what Trump was able to do. They're going to get rid of all the woke stuff and all the culturally divisive stuff and say we're for the people. Because Trump was able to claim the people. And I find that weird that they call it working people when I think billionaires often work very, very long hours to build their empire.
- [24:56]
Chris Cuomo
But it's just, it's division. And I think one of the things that is troubling about it is, and I had a problem with this on the maga side, I still the cultivation of white fright and what I see on the other side. I don't think it's a coincidence that AOC says the minimum when it comes to Israel, that AOC says perfunctory things that are very hollow in terms of the personal sense of her passion about it when she talks about anti Semitism. And I think that I don't know enough to say that the guy who beat my brother in the primary is anti Semitic, but he hangs out with a lot of people and gives shelter to a lot of ideas that are anti Semitic. And a lot of his followers say and traffic in really ugly things that are absolutely anti Semitic. And what do you make of that in terms of what it represents? And do you think it's just about the Jews or the Jews getting caught up up in the reaction formation to the establishment?
- [26:06]
Ami Kozak
So the difference between right wing antisemitism and left wing antisemitism is really one thing. On the right, you could just say you hate Jews. You can just come out and say it. Because in that audience, in that Far right woke right world. That's acceptable socially, and it's part of the identitarian white nationalist ideology. And there's nothing contradictory there. But if you go to the left, which is supposed to be for minority rights and it's supposed to be for protecting marginalized communities, you first have to do one maneuver. You have to make Jews not part of that group that you swear to protect and stand with. So what do you do? You call them Zionists, right? You put them in this category of Zionists and you use all the same language as the far right, dirty Zionists. The Zionists controlling the media, the Zionist media. It's not the Jewish. You just use one word and you change it. You can say all the same things the far right Nazis do, but now you're an enlightened liberal leftist and you can say all those things. So you can do that. And then when it comes to violence against Jews, violence against Zionists, you don't condemn those actions or the people responsible. You condemn concepts. Hate has no place here. Violence has no place here. And Mamdani does a lot of very sneaky things. He'll say, I have no problem with Jewish people. I just apologize for, make excuses for and evade and obfuscate for those who do hate Jews. He won't condemn Hamas. He won't condemn October 7th. Remember October 7th. It's so interesting. There's a few linguistic tricks he does, and you have to pay really close attention. For one thing, he condemns concepts like hate and violence. Who wouldn't condemn that? But then he. He called October 7th a war crime. The horrible war crime of October 7th. How interesting. What does war crime imply? It implies that there was a war already going on, and then Hamas was just kind of part of it. And they. And sure, like good states and bad states can commit war crimes within a war, but there wasn't this current military campaign in war yet. They initiated an aggress against Israel very clearly, but he calls it a war crime. There's another thing, you know, and intifada means different things to different people. Excuse me. There was an actual first and second intifada. What was the second intifada? Suicide bombs in Israeli malls and cafes and buses. These are real things that happen. And you need two things. For the society to crumble and for evil to prevail. You have the evil forces, and then you have those who tell you they aren't really evil, they aren't really happening. They make apologies for them. If you have to do it in the west on the right Evil can just rise like. Like that, unapologetically on the left. There's a few maneuvers you need to do to just sneak it by people. Oh, you're not fighting. You know, we're not anti Semitic. We're actually virtuous. We're condemning the own. We're condemning Israel, the. The Zionist entity. You can call it all of these things so that you can maintain your identity and coverage as a left wing, enlightened liberal who stands for human rights and in the name of human rights, destroy Israel. You see how convenient that works? So they just have one little mechanism, but they're all parallel ways of thinking. Woke ways of thinking, you know, know, and collectivist ways of thinking. And yeah, anti Semitism completely animates it. Even when he gets pressed on specific questions. I think Israel does have the right to exist as a state with equal rights. What's the implication that Israel and the people within Israel don't have equal rights? So he's already making an accusation even of his defense of Israel. He won't arrest violent criminals in the streets of New York City, but he will arrest Bibi Netanyahu. And he is a socialist and he wants to seize the means of production. And he's anti Israel. Israel. If Hamas invaded Israel and slaughtered everybody, I think at the end of the day, he would side with the fact that it is resistance and that it's justified. I think he would talk about the reason this happened. We need to talk about the context of why this happened. When people are oppressed for so long, this is what they have to do. This is what he would do. There's no question he'd make every excuse in the world for it. And if a Zionist wearing an Israeli flag was attacked in New York City or they were kicked off the subway for being Zionist, would his hate task force prosecute that as hate crimes? I think he would be marching right alongside them.
- [30:01]
Chris Cuomo
How do you explain Bernie Sanders, a Jew from Brooklyn, feeling the same way?
- [30:05]
Ami Kozak
Well, of course. Look, Chris, look, we could talk about this because now you've set me off and I'm very pissed off about this. You called me a Jew from Brooklyn, but I'm barely Jewish. I look Jewish. I certainly act Jewish as it's portrayed in media and then portrayed in the movies. But look, I hate to judge people's personal identities, but if we're being honest here, what does Bernie Sanders Judaism really mean? What does his Jewish identity really mean? Does he belong to a Jewish community? Is he married to a Jewish woman? Does he have a Jewish family? Does he practice Judaism?
- [30:35]
Chris Cuomo
No.
- [30:36]
Ami Kozak
So if all of those things aren't.
- [30:37]
Chris Cuomo
There, when he had to admit it in the. I was one of the ones who was pushing him on it. You know, I was one of the ones who was pushing Bernie to run originally. Not because I was an advocate of his ideas, but I felt that, you know, we would have benefited, the conversation would have benefited, and you need to have ideas, even if they're a little bit exaggerated forms of what's possible. I think it informs for sure, you know, the kind of balance of ideas, the spectrum of ideas. And I was like, instead of just coming on my show and talking about it all the time, Bernie, why don't you run? He was like, nobody wants to know what Bernie Sanders is saying about these things. And I would say to him, that's a weird Vermont accent you have. Do you think that's going to sell in America? And he finally got forced to say it. Never forget his face. Yes, yes, my mother and father were Jewish, and yes, I am a Jew. I have. That is the religion. Yes, I am Jewish. But. And then he ran away from it.
- [31:36]
Ami Kozak
But there's a lot of people. Look, at the end of the day, I try not to judge other people's level of Jewishness. But if we're. If they're only using their Jewish identity to criticize Israel, if that's the only time their Jewish identity is relevant to them, is to hate on the Jewish people or the Jewish state, then I'm sorry, that doesn't count. You don't get to claim that you're.
- [31:57]
Chris Cuomo
Jewish to you, but it has to count to me. Like when Dave Smith is.
- [32:01]
Ami Kozak
But it does. It doesn't mean you're representative.
- [32:03]
Chris Cuomo
He says, and I'm Jewish.
- [32:04]
Ami Kozak
Yeah, I know, but that, that, it doesn't mean, first of all, you're representative of a community that you're connected to or that you speak on behalf of, because the Jewish community at large isn't really that connected to you. You're not really engaged with. You're not a part of it. You don't practice Judaism. You just put on a tallit and a prayer shawl when you go to the protest, if you're on the far left. And for Dave Smith to say, like, you know, Jews have no reason to be paranoid. Jews have a history of paranoia. It's like, you know, you might be revealing that you're not as sensitive to what has happened to the Jewish people historically or grown up with Holocaust surviving grandparents and deep entrenched Jewish tradition and value and Jewish Values. If none of those things really matter, attitude or a part of your life, then what you say does not hold that much water just because you are technically Jewish. At the end of the day though, I'm judging the arguments and I get that to non Jews. What you do is you provide a lot of COVID for people who want to hate on Israel and don't want to seem anti Semitic or hold to their old double standards. And you can say, you see, well, this Jewish person, I mean, the biggest critics of Israel, from Norman Finkelstein, he's also a Jew, but he hates Jews. You know, all these people, people I want to have. I don't want to talk about this now. I'm upset and now I need to go to the bathroom. Where's my medication? Okay. He's the biggest critic of Israel, Biggest critic of Jews. It is possible to say something that is an anti Semitic idea. To have a notion that you're perpetuating that is anti Semitic and still be a Jewish person. Like your technical ethnicity doesn't determine whether the idea you're perpetuating is an anti Semitic idea. It doesn't make you self hating. I don't like those arguments that are thrown at Dave Smith or, or anyone else to say he hates Jews or he's a self hating Jew or a capo. I sort of understand the emotional resonance of that and where it's what it's motivating it, but it's a little unproductive. It's not always true. I judge the ideas and I like the, I engage on arguments. But if someone comes at me and says but he's Jewish, just like, but I'm Jewish. So does that make all my arguments defending Israel correct? No. Just because I'm Jewish doesn't mean my pro Israel stance is valid. And Dave's anti Israel stance is not validated by his Judaism either. He's technically Jewish. Cool. I'm technically Jewish. I'm probably a lot more religious, observant and connected to the Jewish community than a Dave Smith or Bernie Sanders. Fine, kind of irrelevant. But if you're going to try to use it as a wedge to prevent criticism, then I object.
- [34:18]
Chris Cuomo
What do you make of his arguments and of people who are using him within the pod world as proof of the truth about the Middle east and what America's posture should be.
- [34:30]
Ami Kozak
So, you know, I try to, I've engaged with Dave on a few occasions. We spar on Twitter a little bit. Twitter doesn't bring out the best in people, but it's, it's a little playground, a little nasty piece of road rage group chat energy. But we have also debated, you know, legitimately on this topic. I think he's a formidable. I think he helps make pro Israel arguments sharper. I think a lot of people who do criticize Dave unfortunately result to a lot of ad hominem attacks. And he's not shy to respond in kind, as, you know, if you attack him, he'll attack you back. I try not to ever even go there, but I do think you keep it to the arguments. My issue is whenever he does say, how about my arguments? Then I counter with an argument. He says, way to misrepresent my position. And I'm like, what do you want? I'm like, each time, so what's the argument? But I take it as it is. I'm. I'm really for the philosophy of, of sticking to the arguments and not the person making the arguments. And don't try to people criticize his comedy. People criticize this. I think that's all unproductive and it doesn't add to the conversation, but I think it does help you to kind of refine those arguments. And, and look, at the end of the day, he has his positions, and I think those are healthy debates to engage with. Where I have some ethical objections to what he's done is when he's gone on sort of the podcasts of those actors that I think are bad faith actors or really true unapologetic anti Semites like Jake Shields or people in that world. If you're going on those conversations and you're doing it uncritically, and at the end of that conversation, a person like Jake Shields feels better about his Jew hatred and his Israel hatred because you've affirmed that his beliefs are not unfounded. Well, you know, that's morally questionable then.
- [36:12]
Chris Cuomo
That's how Dave gets paid. But that's what he's doing. He didn't exist before maga. He didn't exist before COVID paranoia and conspiracy theories. And whether he wants to translate it this way or not, a lot of what he says about the Middle east is, is articulated through a conspiratorial lens.
- [36:35]
Ami Kozak
But my main thing though is that, I mean, I'd been following him before this with reason. And in the libertarian thing, I was also kind of libertarian at one point in terms of economics and things like that. So I've been aware of him. But yeah, certainly the bigger audience since the 7th has happened. But, you know, I mean, I'm building an audience too. We're in this space. So I don't really fault him for that. And I give him credit where credit is due, but he has maximum condemnation for the Zionist side and minimum grace and maximum, you know, sympathy and apologetics for the anti Zionist side and. And a ton of grace for that. So, like when. When somebody on these pro Israelite says something, man, are they evil.
- [37:11]
Chris Cuomo
Yeah, but that's because that's how he gets paid. That's why he keeps showing up on Piers Morgan. You have to be extreme in the media these days. There is no nuance, there is no context. That's why I actually think you found, you know, your ability to do impressions. I don't know if you've always had it or it's something that you've been developing, you know, in this new pursuit that you're doing, but that really allows you to get around the problem that everybody else faces, which is the absolutism. Dave Smith doesn't have any. What you call grace. It's not grace. I mean, you can call it that.
- [37:46]
Ami Kozak
But it's a posture. I do think Dave legitimately believes what he says. He's an anarcho capitalist. He does not believe in nation states at all. All. And so therefore he says that, but.
- [37:55]
Chris Cuomo
He lives in one. He's a libertarian, which is just code for saying that you're smarter than other people, because libertarian has never won an election, has never run anything. You can't even tell what it would look like as an exercise of power. So calling yourself that means what? I want government out of my life. Yeah, okay. Unless you need it, right?
- [38:14]
Ami Kozak
Yeah.
- [38:14]
Chris Cuomo
And then you want your life.
- [38:16]
Ami Kozak
There's the philosophical arguments about anarcho capitalism or manism, all minorism, all those kinds of things. But I think, think what's sort of the blind spot here is, is it's weird to be against nation states but want to facilitate the creation of a very hostile one right on Israel's border. And in any event, I do think he genuinely, as far as he goes, at least when you engage with him, it's always helpful to accept that someone believes what they're saying and that they're coming in in good faith. That's the only way to really engage with things. Having said that, you were making this additional point about, you know, because everybody's. I mean, I do think that I try to be discerning on who's out there in good faith and making arguments and who's out there and making attacks and is hateful, you know, so I kind of draw the line there. And just because someone benefits, I mean, I'm a capitalist. And if someone benefits from the idea, if someone is getting a lot of benefit out of espousing their ideas and people value it, then I'm all for it. People try to say, you are a Zionist shill. Look at this. He's doing it for this. He's doing it for this. But you know, at the end of the day, if people like what I have to say and they resonate with it, that's great.
- [39:13]
Chris Cuomo
Support comes from Cozy Earth. Look, I use it. I dig the bedding and I dig the leisure underwear. Bamboo sheets. The technology is great. That viscose bamboo helps you stay cooler in the summertime, warmer in the winter time. But it's also so much more sustainable than what we're usually destroying to make our textiles. It washes really well, it's soft, it's durable, and I like that it's made out of bamboo. And you know, the way you sleep is going to affect your mood. Mood. The more comfortable you are when you get into the bed, the more you're going to want to go to sleep. The longer you're going to sleep, the better you're going to sleep and the better you're going to be when you're awake. I'll tell you what I also like, especially when it's so hot and humid at this time of year, night sweat's not as big a thing with this new bedding for me for Cozy Earth. And I think it's because it helps keep me cool. I use it. That's all you need to know. Okay. I'm very picky about what I have in my house. And I can have whatever I want. And I choose to have Cozy Earth. What I like about it best, and this may be weird, but some of you will probably identify. I like the way it wears when you wash it. It's gotten softer. There's no of that threadbare deal, you know what I mean? Like, it hasn't like weakened in the, in the corners. And that really matters to me. Durability matters. I clean my bedding a lot. And the leisure wear, same thing. I really like it. It's held at just shape, especially in the waistband. Here's what I also dig about Cozy Earth. They really believe in their product. They give you a 100 night sleep trial. 100 nights. It's over three months. Okay. And you can do it right now. Right. Which is like it's on the. Especially on the East Coast. It's so nasty at night, so hot. And humid. You can go to cozyearth.com and use the code Chris. And you will get up to 40% off the best selling temperature regulated sheets, the apparel and more. Okay, Trust me, you're gonna feel the difference literally the first night. What is your big fear and what do you think your level of effectiveness is in dealing with the maga mirror movement on the left?
- [41:21]
Ami Kozak
The mirror mirror on the left. Well, like you said about the impressions in the comedy, like it's fun because it does allow you to shine light on an absurd and a truth. It's one thing to just say that something's happening, but people can't. And people might agree with you, might not. They might see what you're saying, but they can't help it if they laugh. And if they laugh at something, you're hitting a nerve that they subconsciously already know to be true. The absurdity of watching a Tucker Carlson interview, that he's trafficking in confusion, in inconsistency and incoherence. And I could say that and I can accuse him of such a thing. And fine, you might be able to evidence it, but if you can do it in a satirical fashion, I think it's it, it, it rings a lot more resonant and it hits a nerve in a very much more effective way. And it's a lot more fun. It's more fun to do. You know, I like it all like at all. Like, I, I don't really believe that. I mean, I love Chris Cuomo. I also, I detest Chris Cuomo. I mean, he's a great guy and he's one of my best friends, one of my greatest friends actually. But I also hate him. I like him, you know, So I just think that it hits a certain nerve. But as far as the left mag, I mean, what you're seeing is a problem of like, I think for a long time the far left played identity politics. They said the biggest, most important thing about you is group identity is paramount. And therefore because of that group identity, you must believe certain things and you fall within a certain place in the hierarchy. And then the, and Jordan Peterson said this five years ago. He was like, if you keep playing this game far left, you're gonna get a reaction on the far right and you won't like it, it won't be pretty. The identitarian right will come up and that's exactly where we end. All are now we have woke, right identitarian politics, which says we're going to play that game now. And unfortunately in this far left, woke and Far right, woke, the Jews never fit neatly into the category because they're the ultimate scapegoat. On the right, they're not considered white, they're considered interlopers, they're controlling everything. And on the left they're considered Zionists, colonialists, oppressors. And they don't fit into that narrative either. Now, the woke and the sort of Islamist extremists who detest America, they both have that in common, right? They both hate the west, they both hate America, they want to see it destroyed. So there's a common enemy there on the far left and sort of the Islamic fundamentalism and the extremism. But on the far right, they're supposed to love America, they're supposed to love the military, they're supposed to love capitalism. So what do they do? Ah, we do love those things. But the Jews have co opted all those things. The global, the globalists. Globalists have stolen our country, right? They, they are controlling capitalism, the banks, they're controlling media, they are dragging our military, who we love, into foreign wars. It's not like America has any agency of its own. It's all Bibi. Everybody was for the war in Iraq on the Republican side, on the Democratic side, across the world, rapids of mass destruction. But only Bibi Netanyahu solely came and testified. We will spread democracy in the region. And that was the only thing that no one could help themselves. It was all Bibi. So you see, there's a convenience there in finding the Jew as the ultimate scapegoat. Suspend this way throughout history. It's kind of interesting and fascinating why, but it's almost biblical. God told us this was going to happen. So whatever, we'll take it.
- [44:27]
Chris Cuomo
Where do you think this goes?
- [44:33]
Ami Kozak
Yeah, I'm not a prophet. I, you know, I mean we're in a world now where you just, you never saw certain things coming. We never saw Covid coming, we never saw Trump coming. There's a lot of things that I don't put anything past believability of what's possible. Possible. I hope that as people get exhausted by certain things. I think we're at a point now where during the woke leftist dominant culture, you couldn't say anything, you couldn't joke about anything. And I saw Barry Weiss spoke about this recently. Now we're in the anti woke pendulum swing where you should say everything and anything be transgressive. And we're at a point now, now where beforehand you couldn't accidentally, you know, quote a racial slur. And now Kanye can release heil Hitler. And it's. And everyone's talking about. Even decent people are like, well, it's kind of catchy. What's he trying to say here? And I'm like, guys, you are culturally broken. There's a difference between art and reality. Kanye's an actual anti Semite in real life. That's why the song is really, truly problematic at its core. Django Unchained would have been a very different movie in terms of how it was received if Quentin Tarantino was an actual racist in real life. But he's not in the form of art. He's expressing a certain world and creating a certain world in which that exists. And we can make that distinction, but people's brains are broken now. The world is upside down. And we look at a song like Heil Hitler by Kanye west, and some people say, hmm, you know, what do we want out of our culture? This is interesting. What's it mean? And I think the things you can say about Jews now, not because of anti cancel culture, but. But because of a lack of decency, we have lost that. So I'm hoping.
- [46:10]
Chris Cuomo
And we're so hyperbolic. So for instance, and I've been warning people about this, and it's too late now. Calling Trump Hitler every five seconds, calling Ice Nazis. You know, this is all coming from the left all the time. And it cheapens. Absolutely. And makes it easier to put those labels on things. And now that's what we're doing, seeing.
- [46:33]
Ami Kozak
And we're reaping what we sow a little bit of the backlash against that. But I think we have to remember, it's like Douglas Murray was like, you know, when the flare goes up in your victory, you see who's around, you know, and we have to make sure to be aware of too much. You know, he's seeing like, okay, we. Is this what victory looks like against the woke?
- [46:50]
Chris Cuomo
A bunch of Murray on the podcast with Joe Rogan and Smith was a real low point for me because it was such a Rorschach test. And I was really upset about that. Not because I have any interest in any of the measures or metrics that are used specifically in the podcast world for success, you know, owning, destroying, breaking, bodying, all that bullshit. But Douglas Murray made it so clear that Dave Smith, Joe Rogan, a lot of these kind of comics turned commentators are. Are really inches deep in their understanding of what they're talking about, and they're opportunistic in their rhetoric. And yet it was all through the looking glass. It was all, oh, well, Joe just let them talk. No, Joe didn't know what the fuck he was talking about, so he had to sit there and listen. And he used Dave Smith as a proxy for his own brain. And Dave couldn't be anything but petty in the face of Douglas Murray. And then, you know, Douglas, who, you know, I've known a long time. I mean, he's not a friend. I just. I know his work, and he's clearly right about just about everything he's talking about. But then he took on this condescending tone that wound up defeating the purpose of the intellectual superiority, because he came off like a fucking asshole and made Smith look like a victim, which emboldened him to his victim group, which believes that the aggrieved. And it was just a complete Rorschach test. And it really bothered me that something that could have been meaningful was reduced to nothing but advantage.
- [48:31]
Ami Kozak
Well, look, what I'll say about that whole conversation was like, you know, at first, watching it, I'm a big fan of Douglas Murray. I've always appreciated his work and his voice of clarity. It's been incredible. And initially watching it, I was like, this is just great, because for so long, I've been watching Dave Smith on various podcasts making these arguments, and there's very little pushback. So it was nice to see that. But I do think Douglas loved Douglas, but he made errors on tactics, not on substance. But he made a few very significant tactical errors. As far as, what, the categorization of Joe Rogan and. Or these people as opportunistic. Like, I just think, like, we are putting too much stake in the fact that Joe Rogan is a comedian and a podcaster who's built an enormous audience and become the most successful in his field, having honest conversations and doing what he does. But we expect that he has to have the right point every single time along the way. And I don't think that's necessarily so fair. Like, even if he's talking to Daryl Cooper, I don't know if Joe Rogan is aware of who David Irving is in the way. Douglas, that Murray, right, knows who David Irving is. I think he's talking to Daryl Cooper. He's been listening to Daryl Cooper in other contexts for seven years. I think what Douglas could have done is gone and said, look, Joe, listen, I don't know who Daryl Cooper is like, and just sort of conceded, I don't know who he is in these other contexts. You very well could have benefited from his podcast. But that episode you did where he spoke about World War II. Here's what's wrong with that. Here are the David Irving revisionist historical arguments that are being presented to you that you might not be aware of. And I think it allows an opening of that message to be received without you trying to, you know, you're getting on the podcast saying you shouldn't talk about things you're not an expert in. And you yourself don't necessarily know much about Darrell Cooper or Ian Carroll. You set yourself up for a trip prior there. So admitting that you don't know who these people are, but these things that they are saying are really dangerous, problematic, they could have gotten through that a lot quicker and then gone to the substance of Israel, Palestine. Now, when the whole you've never been moment was a powerful moment, because I think, think let's remember the whole conversation about experts. Joe and Dave appeal to experts all the time. Joe is an expert in, say, mma, right? And that kind of commentary. And if somebody's bullshitting, he makes whole videos on Instagram back in the day of fake karate, of fake martial arts, and laughing about it because he knows taekwondo in martial arts, so he can spot the bullshitter. So they have no problem appealing to experts in fields that they're not experts in. Dave Smith appeal appeals to other experts when it supports his narrative. Wesley Clark, General McChrystal, math. He will always pull those kind of experts when they support his point of view. Fair enough. The you've never been moment, this is really important. Instead of just exposing that as a moment to say, okay, so you have perceptions and I have observations. That moment was just sort of exposing that Dave is sort of a commentator from a distance who's reading articles and headlines and looking at footage. And Douglas has been there on the the ground. But the missed opportunity after that moment was to say, okay, you have perceptions, I have observations of what I've seen. Tell me what you think, I'll tell you what I know, and we'll see where we can build from there. But instead, I think both echo chambers in this argument were kind of pushed further away. And for someone already on the pro Israel side, I felt very represented by what Douglas was saying and the case he's making. And I was very happy to see that, and it was very satisfying. But I noticed that what was happening was the two different anchor chambers of the movable middle were getting pushed further and further way. When there is an opportunity, when there is an opportunity to say, like, you probably have all these perceptions about it, but instead of making someone feel smaller, you could say, Look, I've been there. Like, I've seen these things. Tell me what you think. Like, as a. And the truth is, maybe Douglas was frustrated because he just wanted to talk to Joe and didn't even want this. So I don't know what was going on behind the scenes, but it was just that in that moment, there's an opportunity to build where you could easily take the bait of. And the truth is, he's saying that, like, effectively, the argument is, is you guys. Imagine you release a comedy special and then somebody reviews the comedy special and hates on it. Come to find out, he never goes to comedy clubs, never performs comedy, is just reading headlines about you or a New York Times article. I mean, they're always appealing to articles about Israel from Israeli sources. And then it's like, hey, does every New York Times article that gets written about America, you believe because it's an American article, but you're very willing to, you know, shit on Israel because the, you know, because the press is Israeli. So I just think you can find ways to build consensus, even in areas you disagree. And I get why it's challenging and difficult. And I did feel very represented in a lot of ways. It took me time to unpack where sort of the fallout was from that conversation. I think in the end, everyone's going to be okay. Douglas is going to be okay. He's an incredible advocate, an incredible spokesperson of truth in these scenarios. But that was also a, you know, Jordan Peterson said incredibly choppy waters, you know, and you did what you had to do, you know, so it's like that. But I still think at the end of the day, it's good that that conversation happened as opposed to just Douglas going on solo and Dave going on solo. Like, that's not a bad thing.
- [53:18]
Chris Cuomo
Like, if there's there, that's definitely the way to do it.
- [53:21]
Ami Kozak
Yeah. So I thought it was good.
- [53:22]
Chris Cuomo
You needed somebody who could be a fair broker, like Christiane Amanpour, you know, even if she trends towards. Unless you're Mitt Romney being anti. Right. Anti Bibi. So that there can be a real referee. That's the weakness of Rogan. The positive is he's got a huge platform. Platform. And people get to go there and talk for a long time.
- [53:44]
Ami Kozak
Sure.
- [53:44]
Chris Cuomo
And the weakness is they're unchecked.
- [53:47]
Ami Kozak
Yeah.
- [53:48]
Chris Cuomo
And that, I think that is a metaphor for the blessing and the curse of the pod space.
- [53:53]
Ami Kozak
And people want Joe to be a journalist.
- [53:55]
Chris Cuomo
He.
- [53:55]
Ami Kozak
He. He never said he was. He never claimed to be.
- [53:57]
Chris Cuomo
He's talking to people, you Know what? There's something a little convenient about that, because he has opinions, he wants things that he says to be taken as truth. He wants to be able to propagate other ideas. And there's a responsibility that comes along with, you don't have to be a journalist. But he says and repeats a lot of stuff that is bullshit and he should know that. And the idea of, well, I'm not a journalist, well, but then what's the responsibility of the platform? Then maybe you should have a little black box warning at the bottom of your screen that says, none of this is to be taken for the truth of the matter asserted as the lawyers did with Tucker Carlson during the Dominion lawsuit.
- [54:38]
Ami Kozak
Right. I mean, at the end of the day, it's sort of like Joe is sort of the mirror of explaining what sort of the representing what the average, every man is perceiving of world events and engaging with them. There are certain things he knows a lot more about, there's certain things he doesn't know that much about. But doing it the way he's been doing it has clearly been working for him in terms of building up an audience of people that really connect to authentic conversation, warts and all, sloppiness and all. And I think the antidote to that is to engage with those arguments, correct those arguments, arguments, talk to him, talk to other people and just have more. That's a sunlight's disinfectant kind of thing. There are people, if he did have on that I would think were more morally questionable and should know better. Some people have told that line. I think the Ian Carroll moment was like, whoa, haven't you seen what this guy's saying on Twitter? But again, there's a little bit of a blind spot for conspiracy theory that I think Joe enjoys talking about. And then at the very end, he might have slipped in that whole Epstein stuff. So. And I think also if you're not part of the Jewish community and know the history of antisemitism really deeply of how this stuff, stuff starts incrementally, like, we're not trying to fall for the trap of calling everything anti Semitic and then it losing its power, which I think sometimes has that effect on people like Joe. But we also know that this stuff, politics is downstream from culture. And if you incrementally chip away at the Overton window of what's kind of acceptable ideas to talk about, I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to say them legally, but what we deem as kind of morally reprehensible or should be confronted and called out. That stuff can happen. And the next week he had Jordan on who tried to talk to him about it. He had Jordan Peterson on. So I always appreciated that he's been open. And I think post October 7, we are very aware and hypersensitive of it. Having seen this wellspring of anti Semitism. Let's remember Joe had on Abby Martin pre October 7th, he had on Roger Waters once upon a time. This is not so new. We're just hyper aware of it because the times have shifted and we're hyper aware of the danger that the Jewish community and the Zionist community and Israelis face on a daily basis, certainly. And so it just. It hits a nerve in a different way now in this context. I'm not sure if Joe is as aware of that. Um, and I just do what I can to put that word out there so that hopefully more people are aware.
- [56:40]
Chris Cuomo
The Overton window is let alone where he is within it, but he is in a platform right now that pretty much makes him the window pane. Are you working on an impression of me?
- [56:53]
Ami Kozak
I am, but I have to, like, lift so much more weight to really get it. Because your arms are like three times the size of mine.
- [56:59]
Chris Cuomo
Yeah, I crush you like a bug, which is a problem. My size isn't the problem. It's that I've done nothing but study self defense for the last 20.
- [57:06]
Ami Kozak
Okay, well, fair enough.
- [57:07]
Chris Cuomo
I think that what you're doing adds to the conversation. I think it's clever, I think it's brave, I think it's controversial. And I wish you well. And I am glad to tell my audience they should check out what you're doing as critical thinkers because it's food for thought. And I wish you well, Ami.
- [57:26]
Ami Kozak
Thank you so much, Chris. They can follow me on Ami Kozak. The podcast is called Ami's House Podcast. I appreciate talking to you. Thank you so much for having me on. Good to be with you.
- [57:35]
Chris Cuomo
Foreign. He's funny. He can't do me. I don't know about his Andrew impersonation, but I'll tell you what, he's definitely resonating. His following keeps expanding because it's getting hotter and hotter in the Middle east and we're feeling it back here at home and it's being reflected in our own politics. So what did you think? Send me your questions and comments. Check them out if you want to. I appreciate you for subscribing and following here at the Chris Cuomo Project Project. Thank you for watching at News Nation, AP and 11p. Eastern every weekday night. Thank you for subscribing at the substack. And I will if you pay, answer your questions and get your questions to the people that I interview there. Wear your free agent gear. Wear your independence. Let people say you're not about party. You're not some patsy. You're a critical thinker. You're an independent.
- [58:22]
Ami Kozak
Let's get after it.