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As Donald Trump’s administration continues down the path of self destruction, it is taking the rest of the American population down with it. The abandonment of international allies, treaties and norms, the political scientist Stephen Walt argues, will slowly ostracize the United States and give rise to a multipolar world order which will leave the country behind.

Walt, the Robert and Renee Belfer Professor of International Affairs at the Harvard Kennedy School and author of multiple books, joins host Chris Hedges on this episode of The Chris Hedges Report to chronicle what this decline may look like and how Trump’s policy choices are not unlike past empires in history.

The decline, Walt and Hedges emphasize, is multifaceted. On the one hand, Trump is motivated by personal gain for himself and his family, and on the other, petty grievances towards countries once considered allies. This policy pattern will isolate the U.S. as Walt says, “we’re already starting to see lots of countries who are currently accommodating the United States in the short term also looking to find ways to de-risk, to reduce their vulnerability, to create alternative structures to one in which the United States has the central role. This isn’t going to leave the United States completely isolated. We’re too big for that. But it’s going to mean a long-term diminution in American wealth, power, influence, and security.”

International politicians, such as Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney, have already begun to understand that rather than groveling to a toxic Trump regime, standing up for your citizens can ultimately pay greater dividends. “You are going to see other leaders realize that kowtowing to Trump doesn’t get you any good, may prompt something of a nationalist backlash in your own country as well. And that in fact, taking a more principled position, defending your own country’s interests, even in the face of American pressure actually will pay political benefits,” Walt explains.

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Host

Chris Hedges

Producer:

Max Jones

Intro:

Diego Ramos

Crew:

Thomas Hedges, Milena Soci, Diego Ramos

Transcript

Chris Hedges

The Trump administration reflects a sharp break with past U.S. administrations, not only in how it wields power at home, but how it wields power abroad. Not only do its domestic policies increasingly resemble those of all authoritarian states or dictatorships, but its foreign policies are also those chrematistic of authoritarian states led by all-powerful demagogues.

These policies are not strategic but mercenary. They seek short term gain over long term stability. They prey on weaker states, even if these states are long-time allies. The political scientist Stephen Walt calls this “predatory hegemony.”

Predatory hegemony demands tribute and obsequious deference, including the sycophantic flattering of Donald Trump, as well as deals that enrich him and his family personally, in order to do business. Because countries are bound by trade agreements and economic dependence to the U.S., this predatory hegemony works in the short term. But in the long term it is disastrous for the U.S. pushing countries into other orbits, most notably China, and leaving the U.S. isolated and reviled.

Even great powers need allies. Trump is shedding them one-by-one, imploding not only the world order set in place after World War II, but the financial stability, domestic tranquility and power of the United States itself.

Joining me to discuss the new world order rising from the ashes of the old is Stephen M. Walt, the Robert and Renee Belfer Professor of International Affairs at the Harvard Kennedy School. Professor Walt is the author of Taming American Power, Origins of Alliances, Revolution and War and The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy, which he wrote with the University of Chicago political scientist John Mearsheimer.

You spoke before Trump took office, kind of reflecting on where we were headed. I think you were pretty much correct on most issues. What is it that has surprised you over the last year?

Stephen Walt

Well, there’s several things that surprised me. First, I didn’t expect Trump to do as much in foreign policy as he’s done. I thought he would be focusing on all these domestic items. And certainly there’s been sweeping changes, they’re attempting the most radical transformation of American politics since the Civil War, maybe ever.

But I thought that would be where most of the focus would go and that foreign policy would be left to one side. But instead, you’ve seen an equally ambitious attempt to radically transform America’s foreign relations and done with surprising speed. So that surprised me.

I was also surprised, of course, by the complete absence of any Republican Party pushback on all of this, either at home or abroad, particularly given that a fair number of Republicans had been sort of traditional internationalists who wanted the United States to be engaged to exercise lots of global leadership. And they’ve been willing to go along with Trump’s wrecking ball operation here.

Chris Hedges

Well, there’s a kind of symbiotic relationship, the way he treats people at home — ICE, ignoring the rule of law, 96 court orders in the month of January against the operations in Minneapolis, which they just ignore, Pam Bondi. But it’s also reflected in the way he treats allies overseas, particularly in Europe. There does seem to be a kind of a uniformity into how he views power both abroad and both domestically.

Stephen Walt

Yeah, I think that’s right. And it goes really back to, I think, Trump’s basic worldview, the same worldview he exhibited throughout his business career, a sort of contempt for rules, contempt for laws. You can get away and you can do whatever you can get away with. A view that you’re either weak or strong. You’re either the victim or you’re the winner here.

And that’s certainly how he has treated domestic opponents — belittling them, threatening them in a variety of ways, the way he’s gone after media organizations, universities, anyone really who suggests that maybe he’s wrong about something. But that’s also been the way he’s dealt with the outside world. And what’s different about Trump as opposed to, I think, every previous American president is that he’s engaged in these predatory acts, not just towards adversaries, where you can understand you want to always try and get the better of a genuine rival.

Even when you’re cooperating with a rival, say in arms control, you’d kind of like to get a deal that’s favorable to you. But Trump’s done that with just about everybody, including some of America’s closest allies, where all of these relationships are supposed to be structured and arranged so that the United States is getting the lionR...