Why is it that despite the success of individual circular business models, we simply aren’t seeing a wider shift across the entire economy? In this episode Lou is joined by the Ellen MacArthur Foundation’s Strategic Finance and investment team, Emily Healy and Joe Rodgers. Together, the team explores how systemic investing and capital orchestration could be the tools we need to take this transition forward, and look at where we are currently seeing this thinking brought into ‘on the ground’ demonstration projects.