02.03.25 The Net Worth Gap For Renters Vs Buyers / Valentine Diamond Deals

Summary

The Clark Howard Podcast: The Net Worth Gap For Renters Vs Buyers & Valentine Diamond Deals

Release Date: February 3, 2025
Host: Clark Howard

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Introduction

In this episode of The Clark Howard Podcast, host Clark Howard delves into two major topics: the stark net worth disparity between renters and homeowners in the United States, and emerging trends in the diamond market ahead of Valentine's Day. Alongside these discussions, Clark addresses several listener questions, offering practical financial advice and consumer insights.

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Segment 1: The Net Worth Gap for Renters vs Buyers

Timestamp: 01:04 – 07:29

Clark Howard opens the episode by highlighting new data that reveals a significant net worth gap between renters and homeowners. According to recent statistics, the average renter in the United States holds approximately $10,000 in net worth, whereas the average homeowner's net worth nears $400,000—a staggering 40-fold difference.

Key Points:

• Income Disparity: Part of the gap is due to renters generally having lower incomes compared to homeowners.
• Forced Savings Through Homeownership: Owning a home acts as an automatic, albeit inefficient, savings mechanism. Over time, homeowners build equity through mortgage payments, which contributes significantly to their net worth.
• Investment Returns: While real estate typically offers lower net returns compared to investments in companies, the consistency of mortgage payments ensures continuous equity buildup.
• Behavioral Insights: Clark emphasizes the importance of developing disciplined savings habits, akin to the automatic nature of mortgage payments, to bridge the net worth gap for renters.

Notable Quote:

"Buying a house is a forced method of saving. Not the most efficient method of saving, but it’s a forced method of saving. Because all through the years you’re building up equity."
— Clark Howard [03:45]

Conclusion: Clark advises renters to adopt automatic savings strategies through retirement or investment accounts to emulate the wealth-building benefits homeowners experience.

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Segment 2: Listener Questions and Advice

Clark Howard addresses several listener queries, providing actionable advice on various financial and consumer issues.

Question 1: HVAC Maintenance Agreements

Timestamp: 07:29 – 09:49

Listener: Janet from Georgia questions the value of costly HVAC maintenance agreements, which have recently risen to $855 annually.

Clark's Advice:

• Private Equity Concerns: Many local HVAC companies have been acquired by private equity firms, leading to increased maintenance costs and pressure to sell unnecessary services.
• Recommendation: Shop for a new HVAC contractor if maintenance fees double, as private equity ownership often results in diminished service quality and higher costs.

Notable Quote:

"Once it changes from local ownership, family ownership, to private equity, nothing good happens to you with a heating and air conditioning company."
— Clark Howard [08:10]

Question 2: Lump Sum Pension Distribution

Timestamp: 09:49 – 11:54

Listener: Gary from Montana is apprehensive about receiving a large pension lump sum via standard mail and inquires about wire transfers.

Clark's Advice:

• Verification: Confirm the legitimacy of the distribution method, though it appears to be a standard process from the University of California.
• Financial Planning: Consult with a fee-only financial planner to determine whether a lump sum or monthly payments are more beneficial for long-term financial health.

Notable Quote:

"That's crazy that you're talking about the University of California system, a huge operation, and they're still sending a pension distribution by check in 2025."
— Clark Howard [10:23]

Question 3: Diminished Value Claim After Auto Accident

Timestamp: 11:54 – 15:27

Listener: V from Texas shares her experience after being involved in a T-bone accident and her difficulties in filing a diminished value claim with her insurance.

Clark's Advice:

• State Regulations: Investigate Texas state laws regarding diminished value claims by contacting the Texas Department of Insurance.
• Next Steps: If permissible, pursue the claim through official channels rather than relying on the Better Business Bureau, which may not assist in such cases.

Notable Quote:

"Start with the Texas Department of Insurance to see if diminished value claims are recognized in your state."
— Clark Howard [13:24]

Question 4: Paying Off an Auto Loan vs. Savings

Timestamp: 24:26 – 26:06

Listener: Brent from North Carolina seeks advice on whether to pay off his 4.49% auto loan now that his savings rate is declining below the loan's interest rate.

Clark's Advice:

• Optimal Strategy: If the savings rate falls below the auto loan rate, prioritize paying off the loan to eliminate higher-interest debt.
• Exceptional Rate: Brent's 4.49% loan is notably low, especially compared to average rates for new and used vehicles, making his situation favorable.

Notable Quote:

"If savings rates become really puny, just do what you said—pay off the auto loan."
— Clark Howard [25:15]

Question 5: Timeshare Fees and Exit Strategies

Timestamp: 26:06 – 30:30

Listener: Andy from Ohio discusses his sister-in-law's exorbitant timeshare fees and seeks advice on how to exit the agreement.

Clark's Advice:

• Avoid Defaulting: Stopping payments can severely damage credit and lead to legal consequences.
• Utilize Wyndham Cares: Encourage contacting Wyndham directly through their official channels to explore potential exit solutions.
• Understand Market Dynamics: Timeshares are often difficult to exit due to limited resale markets, making it crucial to approach exit strategies with caution and informed decisions.

Notable Quote:

"The worst thing to do is just stop paying. Or maybe worse—get ripped off by one of the scammers."
— Clark Howard [29:00]

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Segment 3: Valentine Diamond Deals

Timestamp: 18:24 – 30:30

As Valentine's Day approaches, Clark shifts focus to the diamond market, revealing significant shifts favoring lab-grown diamonds over traditionally mined ones.

Key Points:

• De Beers' Inventory Issues: De Beers, the diamond industry's largest player, is currently holding $2 billion worth of unsold traditional mined diamonds due to a surge in affordable lab-grown diamonds.
• Cost and Quality Parity: Advances in lab diamond production have made them chemically identical to mined diamonds, with manufacturing costs decreasing and production scaling up, leading to competitive pricing.
• Consumer Shift: Consumers are increasingly opting for lab-grown diamonds, influenced by ethical considerations and better deals.
• Personal Anecdote: Clark shares his experience of purchasing lab-grown diamonds for his wife, highlighting their beauty and affordability compared to larger mined diamonds at higher prices.

Notable Quotes:

"Labor diamond manufacturing is clean room kind of manufacturing. Almost like when they make computer chips. There's no abuses I've heard of anywhere."
— Clark Howard [22:06]

"If you buy her a real diamond, let me tell you, these things are a deal and they look great."
— Clark Howard [22:20]

Conclusion: Clark encourages listeners to consider lab-grown diamonds as a cost-effective and ethically sound alternative to traditional diamonds, especially with the upcoming Valentine's Day celebrations. He debunks myths propagated by the jewelry industry and emphasizes the economic advantages of lab-grown options.

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Final Thoughts and Resources

Clark wraps up the episode by reiterating his commitment to providing free, one-on-one financial advice through the Clark Consumer Action Center. He invites listeners to visit clark.com/cac for personalized guidance on saving more, spending less, and avoiding financial pitfalls.

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Notable Resources Mentioned:

• Clark Consumer Action Center: clark.com/cac
• Wyndham Cares: Accessible via wyndhamdestinations.com
• Financial Planner Referrals: Available at clark.com

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Closing Remarks

This episode of The Clark Howard Podcast offers valuable insights into the financial disparities between renting and homeownership, strategic financial decision-making, and emerging trends in consumer markets. By addressing listener concerns with practical advice and shedding light on evolving industries, Clark continues to empower his audience to make informed financial choices.

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For more episodes and financial advice, visit clark.com and subscribe to The Clark Howard Podcast on your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

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[Clark Howard]

It'S my pleasure to welcome you here to the Clark Howard Show. You know our mission is to serve you with advice and information that empowers you so you make better financial decisions in your life. And remember that when you're trying to make a decision affecting your wallet. We've got great resources content advice for [e-mail] I am so proud of our hard working team that all they do is try to give you advice that will empower you to act in your own best interest for your wallet. In today's episode, I got a counterpoint to something I've talked about recently about renting versus Buying. I've talked twice recently about the advantage of renting right now instead of buying a home and what matters over the long term. I want to give a different perspective. Also, Valentine's Day is just around the corner. I want to share some great news for you. If you're in the jewelry market, specifically diamonds and I want to share with you a deal I got recently for my wife for her birthday, which she is beyond ecstatic about. So this is not great what I'm going to tell you. There's new data out that shows what kind of money people have as a net worth who are renters versus people that own a home. These numbers are really uncomfortable for me to share with you because specifically lately I've talked about the difficulty for a first time homebuyer buying a home and how right now renting is so very much cheaper than buying a home. But when you look at people that Roughly more than a third of people rent. The other 60 low 60% own or buying what they live in. The average renter in the United states has roughly 10 grand of net worth. The average homeowner in the United States has a net worth of near $400,000, 40 times as much. So where is that gap? Part of it is that overall renters have a lower income overall than people buying a home. But that doesn't account for this full gap. What accounts for this gap in part is that buying a house is a force method of saving. Not the most efficient method of saving, but it's a forced method of saving. Because all through the years you're building up equity. Most people on a 30 year mortgage, so very slowly at first, in later years quicker, you're building up equity in your life, you're building up net worth in your life. Doesn't happen right away, it's very gradual. And real estate has a lower net return over time. The averages show pretty clearly than investing in companies. So if you look at returns from people going into simple retirement plans at work or doing your own Roth IRA and you're in target retirement fund over the years, those are going to have much higher returns than what you earn from a house. But here's the thing, you don't pay your mortgage, you don't stay. So the mortgage, overwhelmingly people get that paid every month. It forces you to save money for your future. As inflation carries the value of the home higher, your payments over the long term bring the balance lower. That difference is the equity, the net worth you have. So there are a lot of people, for very practical reasons, not because of what's going on with the housing market right now, who it's better in their lives to rent. Maybe they're not settled in a particular place in the country and so they're renting, they're going to move somewhere else, whatever. Here's the hard part. You close this gap for people of equal incomes when you methodically save money for your future in a investment plan at work or retirement plan at work in your own Roth ira. That's the key that is missing for so many people, that if you look at middle class Americans, there tends to be very little money saved in retirement accounts, investment accounts, even in regular savings. The wealth that they develop over time in most of the middle class is from that forced savings in a home. What I'm saying to you is know that's consumer behavior, that's our behavior is humans. And you got to swim against that tide. And if you need to develop wealth, which is great to have, it means you develop that automatic habit. Just as somebody pays a mortgage every month, you do automatic deposits into the retirement plan at work or into your own Roth ira. You create what's the equivalent in your own life of automatic wealth building, like somebody has with a mortgage. So it doesn't have to be owning a home. But for many people, that's the easiest, most direct path over the long haul to build wealth. Otherwise, you got to make yourself do it.

[Listener/Caller]

Okay, we'll go to questions. This one's from Janet in Georgia. I understand how Clark feels about extended warranties and maintenance agreements. Does he recommend a service maintenance agreement on H VAC units? Mine has just increased to $855 annually.

[Clark Howard]

Yeah, this is a huge profit center. Let me tell you what's been going on around the country with, let's say you've been with a heating and air conditioning company for a long time for maintaining your heating and cooling in your house and the systems in your house. A lot of these local heating and air conditioning companies have been bought up by private equity. And what the private equity owners are doing is they are paying for the purchase by running up the cost of these maintenance agreements and by forcing the repair people to become salespeople. And so they may, depending on how much pressure they're under, they may find that they're being pushed to recommend a repair you don't need, a replacement you don't need, or whatever. This is a big problem in the heating and air conditioning business. So first, back to your initial question. Heating and air conditioning service contract is different than buying an extended warranty at an electronic store. This is something that you need to maintain. And truth be told, we forget to do that. So having a relationship ongoing with a heating and air conditioning contractor you trust is great. But what's important is you want to know if suddenly the annual fee went from 400 to 800, was there an ownership change? And you'll find often that there was. And so you may need to shop for a new H VAC company because you're in harm's way now with a private equity owner, nothing good happens to you with a heating and air conditioning company once it changes from local ownership, family ownership, to private equity.

[Listener/Caller]

And I always keep filters in my home that I buy separately so I don't have to buy them from them when they come to change. You know, changing the filters is really easy to do. Just as an aside, that saved me some money. Gary in Montana says I have a large pension from The University of California, which I want to receive as a lump sum distribution. The only way to receive it is as a check through the mail. They send it via regular US Mail and it's not certified. I am very nervous about a check in the mail for a large amount. Is there any way to get a wire transfer? They are also not set up for me to pick it up at their office.

[Clark Howard]

Okay, first of all, that's crazy that you're talking about the University of California system, a huge operation, and they're still sending a pension distribution by check in 2025. Are they kidding? Is for you. You don't have the worry or the risk they do. So the only thing you would face is a little delay if the check gets stolen in the mail. Gary, I want to go back to something else though. You're taking the lump sum instead of taking a payment for life before you execute that decision. Unless it's irrevocable and you've already done it. I'd love for you to sit down with a fee only financial planner. Not one that wants to manage your assets, but one who you pay a fee for his or her advice. We have organizations you can get Referral [e-mail] and see whether the math of that pension is better for you to receive it as a monthly check or better for you to receive it as a lump sum. But it is kind of lame that they would send it with a check in the mail for what would be a very, very large amount of money. But know that you don't bear the risk. The state of California does.

[Listener/Caller]

V in Texas says I was T boned in an auto accident after shortly returning from deployment.

[Clark Howard]

Oh, my goodness. Yeah, you're on deployment, fighting for our country, putting your life on the line. You come back and then you're T boned. Well, thank you for your service to our nation.

[Listener/Caller]

Luckily, I stopped and took pictures and it was obvious I was not at fault. I have USA Insurance and I did inquire with them after the accident. From the pictures, they confirmed I was not at fault and they would take care of me. Or I can file with the person who hit me their insurance. And then they put the insurance.

[Clark Howard]

Yeah, you did it. Exactly right down the line.

[Listener/Caller]

I inquired with the other insurance company and for the most part they took care of me. After a much increased supplemental claim, their initial estimate utilizing an app was very low. I have a 2022 Chevy Bolt, so I was very limited taking it to a shop that was certified Chevy shop. Sure the repairs were not perfect on A bright white car, but it was good enough. I tried to file a diminished value claim toward the end but they would not even entertain it stating that the car was fixed at a shop of my choice and they wouldn't do anything else.

[Clark Howard]

That has nothing to do with diminished value. By the way.

[Listener/Caller]

I'm thinking of filing a BBB complaint. Anything else you would suggest? My husband and I are in the Air Force and have been in for almost 20 years. I'm an immigrant and we are both very grateful to serve in the world's greatest Air Force. Thank you. And keep being our financial and life mentor.

[Clark Howard]

Well v thank you. And you say you're in Texas now. So the Texas Department of Insurance is who you need to call to see if law in the state of Texas gives you a right to seek diminish value. Certain states diminished value is either something that has been instituted through the court system or through legislative process. No idea whether diminished value is a standard and customary practice with insurance or is legally required in the state of Texas. I would start there and let's see if there is a valid normal claim for diminished value in the state of Texas. Because your vehicle, after being T boned and having major repairs to it, will never have the same value as it had before, even after it's repaired. And the idea of insurance is you're supposed to be made whole. You're not without a reasonable payment for the loss in value in your vehicle. And that's why in many states diminished value is part of the claims process. But if it's not in Texas, then they get away with it and you do not receive the amount of money you should and you were harmed from the accident you didn't cause. So start there. Let's see what you find out and then you proceed. The Better Business Bureau in a circumstance like this will not be of help. And coming up ahead, I want to tell you the diamond market is going two ways at once and we need to talk about it. Because with Valentine's Day coming up, people's birthdays, things like that, there's stuff you gotta know.

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[Clark Howard]

If you're looking at buying your sweetheart a diamond of any type, it could be. It could be an Engagement ring, It could be a necklace, it could be a bracelet, could be earrings, whatever. Got to understand the changes going on in the diamond marketplace. And nowhere more around the world than in the United States. De Beers, which is the biggest player in the diamond market, is sitting with a very, very large unsold inventory of traditional dug out of the earth diamonds. According to the Financial Times of London, they're sitting right now with $2 billion worth of diamonds that they, as a wholesaler, cartel type organization, can't get anybody to buy in the diamond business. And the reason is that consumers, one by one are seeing the much better deals on lab diamonds than on dug out of the earth diamonds, chemically identical and the lab diamonds. Because the production of lab diamonds is skyrocketing around the world and the cost of manufacturing a lab diamond has fallen. So much as production methods have improved that the price gap between a dug out of the earth diamond and a lab diamond, it's like never been like this. For my wife's birthday, I bought her from one of the lab diamond sellers. Each year is one and three quarter carat, so not quite two carat diamonds. Total weight, three and a half carats, 13 quarters each year. They are so beautiful and so sparkling that I got her these for. Oh my goodness, she's gonna know. Somebody tells her it was a thousand bucks. So she's wearing them after her birthday and her mom is going crazy about these diamonds, that they're just magnificent. And so I call my father in law, I said, you got to get Martha a set of these earrings. She just is crazy about me. He said, well, they were a lot of money, weren't they? I said no. And I've got a referral voucher.

[Listener/Caller]

Martha's worth it.

[Clark Howard]

That cuts $200 off the price. Hopefully she doesn't hear this from anybody. So she got them for $880, something like that. They're just sparkling beautiful. Same week I see from Costco, they're selling one carat total weight diamond stud earrings, one carat. This was three and a half. And the Costco ones were much more money for the one carat than the lab ones for three and a half carat. I mean the market is not equivalent anymore and you cannot tell the difference because there's not a difference. They are chemically identical. And so you don't have to worry about. What was that stuff they used to call them? Blood diamonds. Yeah, you don't have to worry that there's some war going on and an 8 year old boy is living Underground in dangerous circumstances, digging out diamonds and all that. These are made in a factory. Doesn't sound as.

[Listener/Caller]

It could still be bad, but probably not as.

[Clark Howard]

I mean, no, no, the, the diamond manufacturing is clean room kind of manufacturing. Almost like when they make computer chips. There's no abuses I've heard of anywhere. But I just want you to know that the price difference is so extreme now that there's now ads I'm seeing during football and my TV's about to go dark dead till September or late August if I watch the Week 0 college games. Anyway, all these ads saying buy her a real diamond. I just love this. That the jewelry industry is terrified of the truth. And so now they're trying to create this perception that you're cheaping out and you're buying somebody something inferior if you buy a lab diamond instead of a dug out of the earth diamond. No, let me tell you, these things are a deal and they look great.

[Listener/Caller]

Duke in Georgia says, I received a modest payment through Venmo from the Verizon Administrative Settlement Administrator. Is. Is this legitimate or a scam?

[Clark Howard]

It's legit. The money people are receiving. You said a modest payout. I've been hearing funny amounts because people thought from the settlement notices they were going to get like 100 bucks or something like that. People are getting $3, $5, whatever Verizon was allegedly. They settled this without admitting allegedly cheating people by having undisclosed junk fees on their monthly cell phone bill. They settled the case. And so many people made claims or were eligible in the pool that the $100 became a couple of dollars. So Verizon paid the settlement, the lawyers took their cut. Consumers have their money, but there was nothing in it that compelled Verizon, that I'm aware of, to stop charging hidden junk fees. So just know that with a cell phone bill, what matters isn't what they tell you the monthly bill is. It's what they're actually billing you is what counts. So the payment you're receiving is the real deal.

[Listener/Caller]

Brent in North Carolina says, I bought a new vehicle last month with a 4.49% loan for 48 months.

[Clark Howard]

That's fantastic.

[Listener/Caller]

They didn't have a 42 month loan option from my credit union. My savings rate from my online savings account is on its way down and likely to drop below the 4.49% very soon.

[Clark Howard]

Yeah.

[Listener/Caller]

Should I pay off my auto loan when my savings rate drops below the loan rate? Is there a benefit to keeping the loan payments as is if it's not earning as much as the interest I'd pay on the auto loan. Some context. If I pay off the auto loan, I'll still have plenty of rainy day money left to last six to nine months if I needed to pay for an unexpected expense. I max up my Roth 401k, contribute heavily to my kids 529 accounts and a Vanguard brokerage account. My mortgage is at 2.375% with only five years left.

[Clark Howard]

Okay, this is a great story, Brent. What should you be doing when interest rates do fall on savings to a point that there's a clear ongoing gap? Yeah. You take that savings account money, you blow out the auto loan, you're done. Now your auto loan at 4.49 other than 1 that the manufacturer is subsidizing because yours is actually from the credit union. That's the lowest rate I've heard from anybody in a long time. The typical new vehicle buyer is going out the door with a 7% new vehicle loan. Used vehicle loans are in double digits now on average. That's a fantastic loan you've got. But if savings rates become really puny. Yeah. Do just what you said.

[Listener/Caller]

Okay.

Andy in Ohio says, I recently discovered your podcast and I'm loving it as well as your website.

[Clark Howard]

Thank you.

[Listener/Caller]

You are like the consumer Reports magazine brought to life.

[Clark Howard]

Oh, Consumer Reports hates hearing that.

[Listener/Caller]

On a recent episode you were talking about how horrible talk timeshares are and it really caught my attention. My sister in law has been a member at this big time share.

[Clark Howard]

Well go ahead and say it because I've talked about them in the past.

[Listener/Caller]

Club Wyndham for a long time and the fees have gradually increased over time to $2,000 a month.

[Clark Howard]

You sure that's not a year?

[Listener/Caller]

It's got to be a year. Says that is not a typo. I'd never heard of anything costing that much. Who would buy this from her? She says she still has a lot of points. Points even after using some for a trip to Hawaii recently. Her husband said to just stop paying the monthly fees and forget about it.

[Clark Howard]

No.

[Listener/Caller]

What happens if she does that?

[Clark Howard]

Yeah, her credit will be ruined. She may get sued. You don't just walk away from paying Andy. But I'm glad I had you say Wyndham because Windham is really worried about all those sites out there that are trying to get people to contact them and they scam you or they charge you all kinds of terrible fees to try to get out of your timeshare. Wyndham actually on their website has a thing I think they Call Windham Cares. Is that what it's called? Krista? Wyndham Cares. And don't know yet till you talk to them if they really do care. But they don't want people to just stop paying. They don't want people to go to these third parties and I think it's worth hearing them out what they'll do, what the requirements would be to relieve her of her obligation on the timeshare. Now your sister in law may love it, she may love having the Wyndham thing, she may hate it. So if she loves it, I wouldn't talk to her about it. But if you know she's really frustrated by it and maybe would like to get rid of it, then this is what I would recommend.

[Listener/Caller]

I think she is frustrated because she said her husband told her to just stop paying.

[Clark Howard]

Well, because the fees are high.

[Listener/Caller]

Yeah.

[Clark Howard]

So then mention to him, go look at the website yourself, the wyndham site, wyndham destinations.com and then along the top, one of the last things on the right hand side is Wyndham Cares. Click on it and let me see what shows you what they put here.

[Listener/Caller]

Great products these are that they have to have this whole thing.

[Clark Howard]

Well, I mean the timeshare thing is terrible. Here it is. Travel preferences or finances change when they do. Wyndham Cares is here to help you find a solution that works for you now and into the future. So you may be wondering what's in it for a timeshare seller like Wyndham or any of the other well known brand names. They don't care about reputational harm. Many times what's in it for them is they get your stuff back in inventory, they turn around and sell it at retail again to somebody else. And that would be a good way potentially for exit. Who knows if they're going to charge all kinds of ripoff fees or whatever, but at least try that first. The worst thing to do though is just stop paying. Or maybe worse. Worse is to get ripped off by one of the scammers. But the thing with timeshares is, I've always said like a broken record, it's not whether you love your timeshare or not, it's what happens when you don't love it anymore. They're not something you can easily dispose of. And that's what makes timeshares a defective product because they're easy to buy, but they don't have a real market to sell when you want out.

[Listener/Caller]

And you can always rent one from people who want to get out. If you really want to.

[Clark Howard]

Or you can buy one from somebody where they pay you to take it over after they paid 20, $30,000 to buy it, they want out so badly they'll pay you to take over their.

[Listener/Caller]

Obligations with whatever fees.

[Clark Howard]

You are stuck with it. Terrible, you are stuck with it. But the worst is to pay the retail for it up front and then pay all the huge fees over time with no way to exit. At least if you get paid to take it over, you go in with your eyes open and you know you're paying all those fees but you didn't pay anything to enter the obligation. If that's some kind of positive. And enough about timeshares, you know this is the time of year during February ugly where people are much more susceptible to buying a timeshare. If you live in the part of the part of the country with really terrible weather, winter looks like it's never going to end. And Andy, you're talking about living in Ohio where you've got that thing that looks like ceiling tiles over your head for months with the gray skies and the cold and all that. It feels like when is spring ever coming? You're more susceptible, more vulnerable to being taken in a timeshare pitch. And the thing to do is to understand just taking a vacation when you want to, where you want to go beats owning a timeshare every day of the year. And I hope you have great, great rest of your week and today and know all week long we have free one on one advice for you from a member of the team Clark Consumer Action center. Something we've done since, well this is our birthday. February of 93 is when we started providing free one on one advice and guidance. To get that go to clark.com cac and every day know what we're here to do for you. Give you ideas to save more, spend less and don't ever let anybody rip you off. See you Wednesday.