02.12.25 Finding A Side Gig / Finances: Teach Your Children Well

Summary

The Clark Howard Podcast: Episode Summary
Title: Finding A Side Gig / Finances: Teach Your Children Well
Release Date: February 12, 2025
Host: Clark Howard

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Introduction

In this episode of The Clark Howard Podcast, host Clark Howard delves into two primary topics: the burgeoning trend of side gigs in today's economy and the critical importance of financial education for children. Alongside these discussions, Clark addresses several listener questions, providing personalized advice on a range of financial matters.

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Finding a Side Gig

Overview:
Clark begins by exploring the increasing prevalence of side gigs among Americans seeking extra income. He reflects on how side jobs have evolved from traditional part-time roles to diverse, app-based opportunities.

Key Points:

• Evolution of Side Gigs:
  Clark notes the shift from seasonal or part-time jobs to a myriad of app-driven gigs, such as food delivery and transportation services. He highlights the flexibility and variety these gigs offer but also cautions about potential downsides.

• Legitimacy and Earnings:
  With the rise of app-based work, Clark emphasizes the importance of discerning legitimate opportunities from scams. He warns listeners to be vigilant against apps that promise high earnings but may solicit personal information or hidden fees.

• Tax Implications:
  Clark discusses recent changes in tax reporting for income earned through apps like Cash App, Venmo, or PayPal. He advises freelancers to accurately report their income to the IRS to avoid penalties, even if some earnings were gifts from family or friends.

Notable Quote:
Clark Howard at [03:15]:
"You’ve got to be so cautious and careful with gig work. The thing being scammed is not nearly as common though, but the promises of income you'll earn aren't really great."

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Finances: Teach Your Children Well

Overview:
Shifting focus, Clark underscores the necessity of incorporating financial education into children's upbringing. He laments the lack of standardized personal finance education in schools and urges parents to take an active role.

Key Points:

• Current Education Gaps:
  Clark points out that while some colleges mandate personal finance courses, many high schools do not, leaving a substantial portion of the population without essential money management skills.

• Parental Involvement:
  He encourages parents to model good financial behavior and engage in ongoing conversations about money. By doing so, children can learn practical financial skills suited to their developmental stages.

• Age-Appropriate Learning:
  From teaching unit pricing in elementary school to discussing savings and investments in high school, Clark advocates for a progressive approach to financial education tailored to a child's maturity.

Notable Quote:
Clark Howard at [17:00]:
"I want you to teach, I want you to do it. And you know, if it changes some of your habits to be better things along the way, even better."

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Listener Questions and Clark's Advice

1. Lynn from Oregon: Managing Elderly Parents' Healthcare

Question:
Lynn struggles to find a primary care physician for her elderly parents and is torn between moving them closer or managing their care from a distance.

Clark's Advice:
Clark acknowledges the nationwide shortage of primary care doctors and criticizes concierge practices that overpromise but underdeliver. He recommends exploring alternative healthcare providers like One Medical and hiring a geriatric care manager to devise an optimal care plan.

Notable Quote:
Clark Howard at [07:27]:
"One Medical has, in a lot of cities, they have an office of geriatric specialists that attend to people that are Medicare eligible."

2. Kathy from Washington: Repair Costs for Toyota RAV4

Question:
Kathy is debating whether to invest in costly repairs for her 2011 Toyota RAV4, which has been in multiple accidents and now has significant paint and radio issues, with plans to sell the car in a year.

Clark's Advice:
Clark advises against spending over $1,000 on cosmetic repairs for an older vehicle. Instead, he suggests opting for affordable paint jobs to improve resale value and considering aftermarket radio upgrades to enhance functionality without breaking the bank.

Notable Quote:
Clark Howard at [12:46]:
"I think it is time to move on. And I don't know that you necessarily fix those items, but if you did, I would do one of the cheap aftermarket paint jobs."

3. Lexi from Florida: Debit Card Locking Anomaly

Question:
Lexi noticed her debit card was locked, yet she successfully withdrew cash from an ATM using Apple Wallet. She is concerned about the security implications.

Clark's Advice:
Clark confirms that a locked debit card should prevent ATM withdrawals and advises Lexi to contact her bank’s customer service to investigate the discrepancy. He highlights the importance of understanding the bank’s card security features and suggests verifying settings related to point-of-sale transactions.

Notable Quote:
Clark Howard at [15:37]:
"If you have it set for zero dollar for what's called point of sale, that would be using it as a card anywhere other than at an ATM."

4. Krista Lori from South Carolina: Soaring Life Insurance Premiums

Question:
Krista is concerned about her life insurance policy’s premium jumping from $46 to $680 per month after 2036 and seeks alternatives.

Clark's Advice:
Clark recommends evaluating the duration of coverage needed and considering purchasing a new level term policy before the current one expires. He explains that delaying could lead to higher premiums due to increased mortality risk and suggests exploring term lengths that align with her financial obligations.

Notable Quote:
Clark Howard at [23:34]:
"It's going to take away this fear of this cliff 11 years from now as long as you're healthy because then you may not even be healthy enough to qualify for a good level term insurance policy."

5. Paris from Florida: Considering a New Credit Card with Existing Debt

Question:
Paris, with a good credit score but existing debt in collections, asks whether she should apply for a new credit card offering attractive terms or focus on debt repayment.

Clark's Advice:
Clark advises that despite the temptation of beneficial credit card offers, Paris should prioritize paying off her $4,000 debt to improve her financial standing and credit score. He suggests using tools like Credit Karma to monitor her credit and cautions against accumulating more debt.

Notable Quote:
Clark Howard at [25:43]:
"If you’re okay to go ahead and apply, go ahead right now. Get the card. Use it sparingly. Your real effort needs to be paying off this $4,000 because it will hang over you."

6. Anonymous from Texas: Annuities vs. Brokerage Accounts

Question:
Anonymous, a high-income earner with significant savings, wonders whether to invest additional funds in annuities or taxable brokerage accounts.

Clark's Advice:
Clark suggests that annuities are generally not suitable for individuals in their late 20s with substantial investments. He recommends continuing with diversified investments in index funds and maintaining robust tax-advantaged accounts, emphasizing the importance of diversification and cautioning against over-reliance on employer stock plans.

Notable Quote:
Clark Howard at [27:48]:
"Annuities have no role in your life. And the immediate payout or longevity annuities, those are not till you’re retired."

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Conclusion

Clark wraps up the episode by reiterating the value of personal financial education and the importance of making informed decisions tailored to individual circumstances. He encourages listeners to continue seeking knowledge, leveraging resources, and maintaining financial discipline to achieve greater financial stability and freedom.

Final Thoughts:
"There is no one right answer. And there are people who say, you know, I do exactly what you say. Please take what I say as an opinion. And there are times that what I give is straight out fact. There are other times that they are questions with nuance, with answers that have nuance as well. So take it as one piece of learning that you can put to work in your life."

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Takeaways

1. Side Gigs:

   • Explore legitimate app-based opportunities cautiously.
   • Be aware of tax obligations related to gig income.

2. Financial Education for Kids:

   • Parents should proactively teach children about money management.
   • Age-appropriate lessons can build a strong financial foundation.

3. Listener Advice:

   • Tailored solutions exist for managing elderly care, vehicle maintenance decisions, debit card security, life insurance planning, credit management, and investment strategies.
   • Personal circumstances dictate the best financial actions.

4. General Advice:

   • Stay informed, prioritize debt repayment, and continue investing wisely.
   • Utilize available resources and seek professional guidance when necessary.

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By addressing contemporary financial challenges and providing actionable advice, Clark Howard empowers listeners to navigate their financial journeys with confidence and clarity.

Transcript

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[Clark Howard]

It's my pleasure to welcome you here to the Clark Howard you know. Our mission is to serve you with advice and information that empowers you to make better financial decisions in your life. In today's episode, so many of us as Americans are taking side jobs to make some extra cash. My own son is driving for one of the food delivery companies. How do you figure out if the gig work is legit and if it pays enough to be worth doing? Also, I consider what I do being a teacher and I wish that our education system routinely taught practical money advice to kids, you know, episodically through the years they would get the kind of content that they could absorb at their ages. And I want to talk about how I do it if I were you as a parent since so often this is not available. But right now I want to talk about how common it is today for people to do some kind of side work. And what did that used to mean? It used to mean you picked up some kind of side job where you would do something for a company, work seasonal retail or pick up a shift at a restaurant or whatever. But today it's endless. I mean you need to get flat screen TV hung in your home and you can't figure out how to do it. There are all these apps. You can hire somebody to come out and do it and you hope they know what they're doing but anyway they'll do that. And there are apps that people pick up app based work for so many different things and obviously the biggest are transportation related and delivery related. And I've noticed how much Amazon is using people driving their own vehicles now doing app based work doing deliveries for Amazon, not in an Amazon truck or anything like that. There's so many things you can do. But at the same time, you got to know that because this is so common has become a common area of scams. And you've got to be so aware about crooked supposed apps that promise you you're going to make all this money and they then are trying to steal either personal information from you to steal your identity, or amazingly often with these apps that they need some kind of fee from you for a background check or whatever it is, and then they go radio silent on you. So know that you got to be so cautious and careful with gig work. The thing being scammed is not nearly as common though, is the other thing that the promises of income you'll earn are not really great. And as I've talked about with my son doing deliveries for Uber Eats, he can't be an Uber driver or auto insurance won't permit it and he's too young anyway to be an Uber driver. He's doing the Uber Eats is that you learn what's lucrative and what's not, what job you should take, what job you shouldn't take. And that's part of making it worth your while and worth your time to use these apps. If you've got some kind of side gig, though that's not app based and you've been getting paid through, let's say cash app or Venmo or PayPal or whatever. And last year there was this huge scare about Everybody getting these 1099s for any amount of money you receive on any of these apps. It was anybody $600 was going to get them. You could even be getting $600 from a family member or friend. Then it's going to generate a 1099. So that lunacy didn't happen and it was suspended for a year. And this year is you're getting 1099 from last year. They'll only go to people who earned more than five grand or received, I should say, more than five grand on the apps. And when you're doing your tax return, let's say you weren't doing any kind of work with them, you still have to report it and then back it out. Back it out as a process where you report that, Yeah, I got $5,500, but it was money from my dad or whatever it was that was not earning from a job. So you report it and then back it out of your income. Because if you don't report it, the IRS is going to send you a bill for tax for that. But you can avoid that simply by even though you don't just Throw it away, you report it and then it's a fairly simple procedure using tax software to then back out that income. So you've told the IRS, yeah, I got this. You attached the 1099 but you don't pay tax on it. If you did make the money from doing something though, and in past years you just kind of pocketed the money. That's not going to work this year if you earned five grand or more from some kind of side thing.

[Listener]

Okay, we'll go to questions. Lynn in Oregon says this. I'm trying to move my very elderly parents from another state to a graduated care facility, assisted living, memory care, et cetera, near me. However, they both have an array of health problems and many specialist physicians they've seen for years. I've been calling around in my state to try to line up a doctor and can't even find a primary care physician taking new patients. One place that said yes was an independent practice that charges $2,100 per year per person for for concierge medicine. However, I went to trustpilot.com and this company got terrible ratings and that's the name of the company. People complained they didn't get the 247 access to doctors as promised and still had long wait times. Clark I'm so afraid to move my parents near me and risk their health with no relationship to good local doctors and long wait times for serious medical conditions is the alternative that I just keep flying out of state every month to check on them and get them in home help that I have to manage from a distance. I I'm their only child and nearing 70 myself. This is becoming unsustainable help. I need advice. Thank you Clark.

[Clark Howard]

Lynn, this is something that is happening to so many adult children with aging parents who now need significant care. You experience the frustration so many fellow Americans are having all around the country and regardless of your parents being elderly, that finding a primary care doctor now has become like a needle in a haystack. We have a severe shortage of primary care doctors in the United States. So a lot of people who are Medicare eligible like your parents are ending up finding that the only people who really want them now are concierge practices that you pay an annual fee, usually 1500 to, believe it or not, as much as $5,000 a year to have access to a doctor. But what's happened is a lot of these services have over promised like you saw when you read reviews of the concierge practice. You were looking at the promises of same day appointments and access 24 hours a day and all that. That was a bunch of marketing hui and it's not really happening. They want those annual fees. They don't want to provide the services necessarily. They promise. I have been in One Medical for a while, which is kind of not really concierge practice, but it's practice available from Amazon. In fact, they now call it Amazon One Medical. And you're in Oregon, they're in Portland, they're nowhere else in Oregon. So I don't know what part of the state you're in.

[Listener]

And you used to be in concierge medicine.

[Clark Howard]

I used to be in concierge medicine because my heart problems and cancer and I left concierge medicine because I was finding what you were reading on reviews that I was not getting access. And so why was I paying money? So now I pay minimal money each year, 100 something dollars, I think it's 199, I think for the one medical. And I've been very, very happy with how that's working. And for me traveling, I've been to One Medical offices around the country when I've been under the weather somewhere else in America. It's not perfect either. Medicine is not perfect. But One Medical has, in a lot of cities they have an office of geriatric specialists that attend to people that are Medicare eligible. And if you are in Portland, you could check that out. The other possibility that I've read about is finding a np, a nurse practitioner or a physician assistant who has a specialty in geriatric medicine and would be available for having your parents in their patient load and then they're able to be traffic cop, refer to the specialist, deal with the multiple medical conditions your parents have. But the one thing I wanted to say as an alternative you mentioned, oh, so what do I do? Do I leave them in their house elsewhere and go see them once a month and deal with having home health aides come in and all that. Or what? You did not say, what about finding a graduated care facility where your parents live now they already have their specialists or you know they are and you travel to them instead of relocating them by moving them into a graduated care facility where they are. This is a very difficult area. My suggestion on top of this, hire a geriatric care manager. That's what they're called technically, right? Geriatric care manager to assist with helping you with coming up with what is the best care plan for your parents and what's the best placement for them.

[Listener]

Kathy in Washington says, my husband and I have a 2011 Toyota RAV4. It has nearly 150,000 miles on it. It has been in three accidents. A deer ran into the passenger side, a pickup slid into the passenger side and it just got rear ended. It is now in the repair shop. While at the repair shop, my husband asked about repainting the hood as the paint has issues. It looks like someone threw acid on the hood.

[Clark Howard]

What?

[Listener]

This is the only place the paint has done this kind of decaying. The auto body shop said it would cost between 800 and $1,200 to repaint. The radio also has issues. We've replaced it three times. It works, but the display is inconsistent. Sometimes one can see the info and other times it has a display of some weird characters. It would be nearly $1,000 to replace the battery. A lot in labor. We'd like to sell the car in the next year or so. I say we leave the car as is. Be honest about the radio. The pain is obvious. My husband disagrees and thinks we should pay to get the car more perfect. Your thoughts? Clark is my husband's go to for everything and we never do anything without Clark's podcast approval.

[Clark Howard]

Well, Kathy, thank you very much for.

[Listener]

That and sorry about that.

[Clark Howard]

And I'm thinking about man, you usually I'm talking to people about Toyotas and 2011 Toyota with 150,000 miles. It's just a baby.

[Listener]

Baby.

[Clark Howard]

It's, it's. I mean, it hadn't even made it into junior high yet because they are so crazy reliable over the long haul. But you've had really bad luck here. Three wrecks. You got this electrical problem that nobody seems to be able to fix that is most visible on the radio. You got this hood that's all discolored. It's got all these miles. It's 14 model years old at this point. I think you have the body shop finish the work and when the time comes that you want to sell it, you sell it. If you got a paint job on a vehicle that's almost 15 model years old, I would go to one of the chains that does the no frill paint jobs and paint it there for a lot less money than a really highly skilled body shop would do. It wouldn't be worth the money to spend more than a grand to paint the hood of that vehicle.

[Listener]

Also, I know there was a paint recall on Toyota RAV Force at 1 point. I don't know if you can still do it, but definitely look up to see if you're part of that recall.

[Clark Howard]

Good job.

[Listener]

Yeah. And you go to nhtsa.gov for that. Right. NHTSA and you'll see if there is.

[Clark Howard]

A paint recall and how long it would last and all the rest. But I lean towards you in this case, even with it being a Toyota, that RAV4 has had a rough life and I think it is time to move on. And I don't know that you necessarily fix those items, but if you did, I would do one of the cheap aftermarket paint jobs on it if you wanted it to be more presentable for sale. The radio thing, I'm stumped on that. I wonder if you instead of putting in a replacement Toyota radio, you went and had a independent, you know, a third party radio put in it that had the ability to stream or whatever that would make it up to date music wise and make it more appealing for a buyer. You'd enjoy it for another year or whenever you're going to sell it and then you dump the vehicle.

[Listener]

Lexi in Florida says I went to the bank today to withdraw cash. I used the ATM at the drive through to access my account. I tapped my digital debit card from my Apple wallet onto the NFC reader, entered my PIN and the amount that I wanted to withdraw. I retrieved my cash, counted it and drove away. After I drove away, I realized that I never unlocked my debit card before getting the cash. I was under the impression that locking your debit card will reject any attempt to make a transaction at any ATM or at an in store, in person, online. I logged into my account to double check and my debit card was indeed locked the entire time. How was I able to get cash out? Is this something I should be concerned about?

[Clark Howard]

Yes. Yes. So just because you use your Apple Wallet to get money at most financial institutions, if you have card lock in effect on your debit card, it will not work at the atm, should not work at the atm. I see you're with bank of America. You know, I know with bank of America they're a little squirrely about the protections with a lock. But my understanding of it is just because you used Apple Pay or somebody else used Google Wallet, it should not have allowed that withdrawal with the lock. I think you need to talk to bank of America customer no service and find out. Now there is another thing that some financial institutions and banks, credit unions offer. It's where you have it set for zero dollar for what's called point of sale. That would be using it as a card anywhere other than at an atm. And I guess that's a slight possibility, but I think there's just some problem that happened at bank of America and you need to see if you can get to the bottom of it there because it's something I've not talked about except when people ask me questions is I call the debit card the Visa MasterCard debit card piece of trash, fake Visa, fake MasterCard because the lack of consumer protections. So if you're only going to use it very rarely and your financial institution offers you the ability to lock the card so even if it's stolen, a criminal can't use it, take advantage of that. It's to your best protection. Coming up ahead, something that would really help a lot of people is if we offered sustained personal finance education as our kids go through the educational system at all different ages. But it's kind of hit or miss on that. So what can you or I do.

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[Clark Howard]

Clocks in, LinkedIn makes it easy to post your job for free, get qualified candidates and manage them all in one place. Plus LinkedIn extends the reach of your job post by allowing you to share it with your network and hiring managers that add a hiring frame to their LinkedIn profiles. Receive two times more qualified applicants. Go to LinkedIn.com achieve to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. I'm really excited that it's become more and more the thing that in order to graduate from college a lot of colleges require that you go through personal finance education that it's an age where people are already having misadventures with credit cards. They're trying to understand how loans work. You can teach about retirement accounts. I mean, for people of the 18 to 24 year old group who go to college, this being part of the game is great. But then we've got such a large percent of Americans who don't go to college, who go to technical school or do who knows what, they don't have the access to this. And it's pretty rare in high school that personal finance education is taught. And it's one of the most valuable things for life you could have. I remember years ago there was an expert I used to have on TV who was a brilliant financier. Before we were shooting or after, he'd asked me personal finance questions that showed he knew nothing. He knew the big picture and big money and all that, but knew nothing about everyday finance. And he was a PhD but never learned anything about the everyday kind of money stuff we talk about, which is so well taught in the school system. I mean, I started teaching my kids basics about money when they were in elementary school. My kids all knew what unit pricing was by the third grade because they were getting enough math in school that could teach unit pricing. There's so much age appropriate stuff that can be taught. The most elementary things in elementary school, more in middle school, and then absolutely in high school. But that's been my wish for forever. And it's just hit or miss. So that brings you to the table. You as a parent, you're the one who's got to take the time to teach your children age appropriate about money. Let's face facts. A lot of parents aren't comfortable doing it because they're not that comfortable with how they've been handling money. Use that as part of the teaching. Say I wish I knew at your age what I want you to know now so you don't make mistakes like I made mistakes you're willing to share with a kid. Age appropriate are valuable because kids generally look up to you and so they can learn so much from you. When you're out shopping, when you're out doing things, when you're trying to make decisions about this, that or the other, talk to them about it. It's not a conversation. We know that doesn't work with the birds and the bees. It especially doesn't work with money. So take the time to talk repeatedly. And when your kids ask you a question that's about money, take the time to answer it and try to understand why they're asking it. I know it'd be great if it were part of curricula. Generally it's not. So under your Own school of mom and dad or mom or dad. I want you teaching, I want you doing it. And you know, if it changes some of your habits to be better things along the way, even better.

[Listener]

Krista Lori in South Carolina says I have a life insurance policy that will end in the year 2036. Right now my monthly rate is $46 a month.

[Clark Howard]

Gotta be level term, right?

[Listener]

Yeah, for sure. At the end of this 20 year policy I was told that my term life policy rate would go up to $680 a month.

[Clark Howard]

Think about that. That's 11 years from now. It goes from a flat 46amonth to 680amonth.

[Listener]

This is a super outrageously high premium. If I'm still in good health and living before this policy ends, what should I do as an alternative and or should I make this change now?

[Clark Howard]

Okay, I absolutely love this question. The only thing I wish we knew is how old you were, Laurie, to know what the insured need period is for you. So 20 year policy. Usually people buy a 20 year policy because they have young children, minor child, they want to make sure they have money to get them to adulthood. But what about living costs and all that that calls for a longer term if you're extremely healthy still you may want to today buy a new 20, 25 or 30 year policy. What's the period of time Laura, you're trying to insure with that level term insurance that will cover you for the lion's share of your working lifetime. So while you're healthy, you go ahead and buy that you could at that point is going to have a higher premium because you're nine years into it. You've got more mortality risk for the insurer. But it will take away this fear of this cliff 11 years from now as long as you're healthy because then you may not even be healthy enough to qualify for a good level term insurance policy. So this would be the time to go ahead and replace it or add to what you have with a new level term.

[Listener]

Paris in Florida says I've recently become a follow of your podcast and love the information you provide. Talk about super helpful. I was hoping you could help me. I'm 31 years old and have no credit cards. At the moment I'm only an authorized user on my mom's Chase bank credit card. I have a credit score that is in the lower seven hundreds and was interested in possibly getting a credit card of my own. Discover has an amazing promotion on their new card called the Discover It Cash back card. My question to your show is do you think it's wise for me to get a credit card of my own? Especially because this particular card is offering a 0% intro APR and pretty awesome benefits. And if not, what should I be more focused on financially is I have debt that is under $4,000 in collections at the moment. Thank you and God bless you.

[Clark Howard]

Thank you very much and thank you for your compliments about our show. So I don't know how recently you looked at your credit score. Once a collection item posts to your credit report, you'll go into a penalty box. Your score is going to go down a fair amount. You're not going to be able to qualify for new credit. If it's a medical debt collection and it's less than a year old, it's not posting on your credit report yet. And I'm not trying to get you to be irresponsible, but go ahead and apply for a card now. The Discover IT Cash Back card is a very good card. Knock on Discover is not accepted everywhere. But as they're running these ads full tilt during the TV season, they were running them that discovers accepted 99% of places whatever TV season to you, meaning football.

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Football.

[Clark Howard]

That's the only TV season there is. Is football season now coming to? It's over. It's over. There's spring football.

[Listener]

Okay.

[Clark Howard]

Anyway, so if it is a medical debt, you got to pay that thing. And with that amount of debt, it will really, really harm you over time. I'm assuming that's what it is. If it's not medical debt, I don't know why it hadn't already devastated your score. I want you to go to creditkarma.com set up a Credit Karma dashboard, see what's on your credit reports. You'll be able to see those. See what your scores are. If you're okay to go ahead and apply, go ahead right now. Get the card. Use it sparingly. Your real effort needs to be paying off this $4,000 because it will hang over you.

[Listener]

Anonymous in Texas says, I know annuity is a cuss word on your show, but you've said in the past that you will occasionally make exceptions for immediate payout annuities and longevity annuities. When do you recommend that someone even consider these? I'm fortunate to be a very high income earner and I currently max out my backdoor Roth IRA, 401K, HSA and ESPP.

[Clark Howard]

Wow.

[Listener]

I'm wondering if using extra cash and savings from the proceeds of my ESPP or my equity compensation would be better served in a taxable brokerage account and buying an S&P 500 fund, one of the annuity options mentioned previously, or something else entirely. I am 27, have no debt and have about 350k in my various tax advantaged accounts. I know. Don't pass out. Don't pass out. Thanks for everything you do. Listening to you at my desk during my first internship was the reason I've become such an aggressive saver. And I credit my current financial stability to your guidance on dollar cost averaging and sticking through market rough patches without panic selling.

[Clark Howard]

Okay, first of all, oh my goodness, Anonymous27 having saved already more than a third of a million dollars, you're doing, you know, all the Alphabet soup, the ESPP for People aren't familiar. It's an employee stock purchase plan that's available where Anonymous works. Annuities have no role in your life. And the immediate payout or longevity annuities, those are not till you're retired. It's like creating your own pension for yourself. So keep doing what you're doing as to whether you should be doing the employee stock purchase plan or you're better off doing a investable brokerage account going into index funds. The thing with the employee stock purchase plan is everything rides on the company and how well they do. So it takes away diversification. But you're already doing all the other things, fully funding a 401k, doing a backdoor Roth IRA. That means you make a lot of money. Not eligible to do a regular Iraq, doing an hsa. You got great diversification. Just keep doing what you're doing. And I'm very impressed. Congratulations. And this concludes today's podcast. I hope that you've learned something today that's useful to you that you can put to work in your life. You think of some of the complexity of the questions I was asked. There is no one right answer. And there are people who say, you know, I do exactly what you say. Please take what I say as an opinion. And there are times that what I give is straight out fact. There are other times that they are questions with nuance, with answers that have nuance as well. So take it as one piece of learning that you can put to work in your life along with really complicated situations with other additional research you do, because I want you empowered with knowledge so that you take charge, take control, so that you can save more and spend less and avoid getting ripped off. And I'll see you on Valentine's Day. Hope that you have a great rest of today.