03.17.25 Pay Less For A Vehicle / Power Bills: Smart Meters Vs Regular Meters

Summary

The Clark Howard Podcast – Episode Summary: "Pay Less For A Vehicle / Power Bills: Smart Meters Vs Regular Meters"

Release Date: March 17, 2025

In this episode of The Clark Howard Podcast, host Clark Howard delves into two significant financial topics: strategies to purchase vehicles more affordably and the implications of switching to smart meters for managing power bills. The discussion is enriched with listener questions, providing practical advice on a range of consumer-focused issues.

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1. Affordable Vehicle Market Trends

Clark Howard begins by addressing the shifting landscape of the automotive market. Following supply chain shortages during the COVID-19 pandemic, automakers became accustomed to selling high-end, option-laden models, resulting in dealer lots brimming with premium vehicles that remain unsold.

“Automakers got addicted to selling high end models optioned out and those vehicles are sitting there unloved...”
(01:30)

He explains that this oversupply has led dealers to seek incentives from manufacturers to move these high-end models, creating an opportunity for consumers to purchase more affordable vehicles.

2. Consumer Reports’ Recommendations

Highlighting the importance of informed car buying, Clark references the annual Consumer Reports Auto Buying Guide, which identifies reliable and affordable vehicles. He provides specific examples of recommended models that offer good value for money:

• Nissan Sentra: Retailing between $18,500 to $19,600, significantly below the MSRP of $21,500.
• Subaru Crosstrek and Forester: Starting around $25,000.
• Toyota Camry: Starts at $28,000.
• Ford Maverick Pickup Truck: Begins at $27,000.
• Toyota Highlander Hybrid and RAV4 Plug-In Hybrid: Higher-end models priced at $46,000 and $44,000, respectively, praised for their exceptional fuel economy.

“Consumer Reports recommends that are more affordable. They recommend a Subaru Crosstrek that starts at 25 grand...”
(04:15)

Clark emphasizes the guide as an essential resource for prospective buyers to evaluate vehicle options based on reliability and value.

3. Costco Auto Buying Program

Introducing the Costco Auto Buying Program, Clark highlights its benefits for consumers seeking a transparent and hassle-free car purchasing experience. This program enforces a non-negotiated pricing policy, eliminating common dealership tactics like pressure selling and hidden fees.

“Costco has terms and conditions that the dealers have to live by non negotiated price. No games, no gimmicks, no cons...”
(07:45)

He praises the program for its straightforward process, allowing buyers to know the vehicle cost upfront and ensuring dealers adhere to fair practices. Clark directs listeners to a guide on his website for more information on leveraging this program.

4. Dealing with Dishonest Dealers

Clark warns listeners about unethical dealership practices, specifically addressing a tactic known as "roofing your keys." This involves dealers intentionally losing a customer's car keys to prolong the sales process and pressure the buyer into an unfavorable deal.

“Roofing is a trick that car dealers use. Not all car dealers, just crooked ones...”
(09:15)

He advises consumers to negotiate deals online to retain control over the buying process and avoid falling victim to such deceitful maneuvers.

5. Listener Questions and Advice

The episode features several listener questions, each tackled with Clark’s characteristic practicality:

a. Car Repair Decision: Catalytic Converter Replacement

Listener: Steve from Connecticut
Issue: Whether to replace a catalytic converter costing up to $3,350 on a high-mileage 2006 Honda Accord.

“If you spend three grand on this catalytic converter, how many months payments is that on a typical vehicle loan? You know, four.”
(10:40)

Advice: Clark suggests that the vehicle’s value exceeds the repair cost and recommends proceeding with the replacement, especially if the car is mechanically sound otherwise.

b. Electric Vehicle Trade-In Considerations

Listener: Dwight from Maryland
Issue: Timing the trade-in of a 2021 Model X for a 2025 Gen 2 Rivian 1S amid depreciation concerns and existing incentives.

“Do we know how many miles the Model X has?”
(13:17)

Advice: Clark advises consulting the Consumer Reports on Rivian's reliability and considering the depreciation trends of Tesla vehicles. He suggests waiting for a used Rivian if concerned about rapid depreciation but acknowledges the benefits of current incentives for new purchases.

c. Avoiding Scams After Public Complaints

Listener: Mark from Florida
Issue: Nearly falling victim to a scam after publicly complaining about Hertz on social media.

“I thought I was okay because I had initiated contact, but then I realized I hadn't.”
(14:54)

Advice: Clark highlights the dangers of exposing personal grievances publicly, as it can attract scammers. He recommends using reputable organizations like Elliot.org for executive-level contacts at problematic companies to resolve issues without falling prey to fraud.

d. Smart Meters vs. Regular Meters

Listener: Sally French
Issue: Evaluating the benefits and drawbacks of smart meters for managing power bills.

“Your power company likely has installed what are known as smart meters at your residence...”
(19:49)

Advice: Clark explains that smart meters offer time-of-use pricing, which can be advantageous for individuals who can shift their energy usage to off-peak hours. However, for households with high daytime energy consumption, traditional plans might be more cost-effective. He underscores the importance of assessing one’s lifestyle and energy usage patterns before deciding.

e. Home Safety Devices from State Farm

Listener: Ken from Michigan
Issue: Considering the installation of TING fire safety devices offered by State Farm.

“Take the ting. The ting.”
(26:58)

Advice: Clark endorses the TING devices for their ability to provide early warnings of electrical fire hazards, enhancing home safety without additional insurance discounts.

f. Term Life Insurance for Spouse

Listener: Kimberly from Tennessee
Issue: Whether to purchase term life insurance for a spouse who had a recent heart attack.

“At 69, the term life policy that will normally be available...”
(27:27)

Advice: Clark advises evaluating the financial necessity of the policy, considering factors like potential income replacement. He notes the challenges of obtaining affordable coverage at older ages and recommends consulting with a life insurance agent to explore options.

g. Long-Term Disability Coverage

Listener: Nick from Iowa
Issue: Deciding on supplemental long-term disability insurance given existing employer-provided coverage.

“...you may be able at a very low additional cost with the existing policy to add on that additional 10%...”
(30:29)

Advice: Clark suggests maximizing employer-provided disability benefits before considering supplemental policies. He recommends directing additional funds towards savings or a Roth IRA if supplemental insurance premiums are prohibitively expensive.

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6. Conclusion

Clark Howard wraps up the episode by reiterating the importance of informed financial decisions, whether it’s purchasing a vehicle or managing energy costs. He encourages listeners to utilize available resources, such as the Consumer Reports Auto Buying Guide and the Costco Auto Buying Program, to enhance their financial well-being. Additionally, he reminds listeners of the free one-on-one advice available through the Team Clark Consumer Action Center for personalized financial guidance.

“I hope that you have learned something that will help you pack a punch in your wallet...”
(32:45)

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This episode offers valuable insights into making smarter financial choices in vehicle purchases and energy management, supported by practical advice and real-life listener scenarios.

Transcript

[Megan Coyle]

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[Clark Howard]

It's great to have you here on the Clark Howard Show. Our mission is to serve you with advice and information that empowers you so you make better financial decisions in your life. And today I'm going to begin with what for most of us is the second largest purchase we make several times over our lifetime. And that's automobiles, vehicles, SUVs, whatever you want to call them, cars. There are ways to get cars for less money with less hassle than most people pay. And also it's becoming more and more common around the country that our power provider offers us smart meters and different time of use, time of day use, power plans. When are those a good idea? When are they a bad idea? We're going to talk about that. So just the other day I talked about the movement and the housing market and that we're at a pivot point in the housing market, the largest thing we spend money on. And today I want to talk about a trend that for the first time in years is your friend in the vehicle market. So the automakers got used to being fat and happy during the supply chain shortages during the COVID years and refused to acknowledge in their internal meetings and their planning that the market has shifted. And that's why for most brands, the dealer lots are packed with product new vehicles to sell, but with a problem the automakers got addicted to selling high end models optioned out and those vehicles are sitting there unloved and dealer groups are pleading with the manufacturers change the product mix and give us incentives that'll move those vehicles that are sitting unloved on our lots off those lots. That's why here we are in March of 25 and a lot of dealers are still trying to move the metal of 24 model years. I mean, they got a problem with inventory. That's your friend. But the other thing that shifted is automakers are rediscovering selling some more affordable vehicles. So I've been looking online to see what affordable vehicles are actually selling for. And the shocker was there are even some limited numbers of new models that are retailing out in the upper teens. And Consumer Reports every April publishes its annual auto buying Guide. And the advance information of it. And some people or subscribers have already gotten that issue now shows there are some affordable vehicles that also Consumer Reports recommends and also pass their reliability tests. I'm going to give you an example of a brand that is unloved in the United States right now. Nissan. They've got the Sentra, which is a sedan that the manufacturer suggested retail price is like 21 5. And I was seeing them available online at 18, 5 to 19, 6 from dealers. And Consumer Reports says, hey, this is a deal on a new vehicle. Think about the average used vehicle right now costs 27, 28,000. And here you have a brand new vehicle selling for around 20, plus or minus. Gotta shop around. I'll talk about that in a second. And that's just an example of vehicles Consumer Reports recommends that are more affordable. They recommend a Subaru Crosstrek that starts at 25 grand, Subaru Forester that starts at 25 grand, a Toyota Camry that starts at 28 grand, and the Ford Maverick pickup truck that is a has been a hot item in the marketplace since it was introduced, that starts at 27 grand. They love two particular Toyotas. The midsize Toyota Highlander hybrid, which is a lot of money, starts at 46 grand. And the RAV4 plug in hybrid starts at 44. So these are vehicles that get crazy good fuel economy but are much more money. If you're looking to keep the prices down though, or you're looking to try to figure out what used car you should buy, what new vehicle would be more affordable. I encourage you so much to either buy the physical copy of the Consumer Reports annual Auto Buying Guide or if you want to see the electronic version, a lot of times your library makes the electronic version available for free or you can buy one time use of it to have the information on buying a vehicle. It is the best source I know. And the Consumer Reports annual Auto Buying Guide is your friend. You know what else is your friend what has I think become the largest car buying program in the United States, the Costco auto program. I actually got a friend to join the Costco auto program when he was buying a new vehicle a couple of months ago because he'd been complaining to me about what it had been like at the dealership. What the Costco program does is it's such a powerful seller of products and has a more affluent customer base that the Costco auto buying program works this way. Costco has terms and conditions that the dealers have to live by non negotiated price. No games, no gimmicks, no cons, no grind, no weird pressure. No roofing your keys. You remember what roofing. You ever heard me talk about roofing keys tell you that in a second. Anyway, Costco program, you know up front what that vehicle is going to cost before you ever have to set foot at a dealer. And it is a clean buying process. If it's not at a dealer, you report them. Costco hears enough complaints about a dealer, they're kicked out for real. And because the Costco buyers come with the ability to buy and their sales are quick and easy, dealers crave having that buyer base. And we have a [e-mail] how to take advantage of the Costco car buying program now. Roofing your keys. Gosh, it was funny because I was talking with somebody brought it up yesterday. So roofing is a trick that car dealers use. Not all car dealers, just crooked ones. Unfortunately there are still some crooked dealers. So you go there, you're looking at a vehicle and they're going to praise your used vehicle to see what they'll give you as trade in. And then you decide you're not going forward with anything there and gosh, they can't find your keys. What happened to your keys to the car you went there in? And so the expression roofing comes from back in the old days they would literally throw your car keys on the roof and not be able to find them. Supposedly to keep you there and put you through the grind and wear you out, get you hungry and thirsty and get you to sign for a new vehicle or a new to you use vehicle you didn't really want. Yep, things really do get that dirty at some car dealers. And it is the fifth most common complaint we get to the Team Clark Consumer Action Center. The way dealers that are dishonest may try to rip you off. You got to be aware, you got to be wary. And the best thing let's say you don't want to do the Costco thing still you Negotiate your deal online. You make your deal online. You never, never, never, not ever make your deal at the dealer. Because remember, you're on their home field, their home field advantage. You want to maintain home field advantage by being hard to get, doing your shopping from your home.

[Sally French]

All right, here's a question from Steve in Connecticut. And this relates to cars. We have a 2006 Honda Accord EX with 227,800 miles on it. It's not our baby, it's not our primary car. It needs to have a new catalytic converter at a cost of between 2,900 and 3,350 to be able to pass Connecticut emissions and be able to renew its registration. We have no other problems with this car. Do you think it would be worth the cost of repair? If we don't repair it, we would be looking to replace this car in May of this year. Historically, this model is lasting over 300,000 miles.

[Clark Howard]

Yeah, and, and this car would have a value still significantly higher than the cost the catalytic converter. But catalytic converter money is like throwing money down a rat hole. I mean, you got, you'll get not $0.01 additional value out of your Honda Accord when you do eventually sell it with that new catalytic converter versus not having it. Because there are so many states and areas that don't have emission testing, you'd be able to sell that vehicle into one of those. But not having a payment, you think about, okay, so if you spend three grand on this catalytic converter, how many months payments is that on a typical vehicle loan? You know, four.

[Sally French]

Oh.

[Clark Howard]

So all you have to do is get four more months out of the Cord Ex and you're pretty much even with having done the catalytic converter on it. And since the car is so mechanically sound, other than catalytic converter problem, I think you'd be making a good decision to do the catalytic converter. Also, you say you drive it very little. Many states have an exemption when there's an emission problem. If you can prove mileage of less than maybe 2500 miles a year. I don't know how few you're driving it now per year, but you should see if Connecticut has an exemption for low mileage vehicles. Low mileage use vehicles like 200 miles a month or less of driving. If you can get the vehicle registered and avoid having to replace the catalytic converter.

[Sally French]

Dwight in Maryland says, I've been a listener for years and have benefited immensely. Thanks for keeping this going. I have been an EV owner since 2016 when I bought my first Model S. I'm planning to trade in my 2021 Model X for a 2025 Gen 2 Rivian 1S, but I am struggling on when to make the switch. If I buy now, I can take advantage of Rivian's incentives including a 1.99% financing for a dual max performance.

[Clark Howard]

That's going to be an expensive Rivian you're looking at.

[Sally French]

Though I would prefer to wait for a used gen 2 R1s. I am concerned about the trade in value of my Model X dropping substantially. Should I wait until the late spring to make the switch to a used R1s or swing now with the current Rivian incentives for a new one while taking advantage of my Model X's current value?

[Clark Howard]

Do we know how many miles the Model X has?

[Sally French]

PS no, but he said PS. My 2016 Model S is still kicking at 163,000 miles. Do you think Rivian's will hold up?

[Clark Howard]

Go read. I was just talking at the top of this about the Consumer Reports annual issue. Read what they say about Rivians. They're fun, but read Consumer Reports reliability report and stuff on the Rivian before you go forward with the R1s. Second thing, the value of Tesla already they took big hits in the first 24 months. They depreciate generally more than other vehicles based on the cycle of when you bought potentially in 21. So I don't think you have to worry as much from here these number of years later that you've got a certain flatlining to the depreciation of your ex moving from here. And so if you want to wait for a use Rivian, I think you'll be rewarded because I don't think the value of your ex will decline at any large rate month by month by month that you would wait. On the other hand, if you just love the R1s, you want to get one. They've got the 2% financing, 1.99 rounded up to 2 and you can afford to do it. Have a great time.

[Sally French]

Okay. This came in from Mark in Florida. It's a cautionary tale. I engaged Hertz via X about an issue we had with tolls and then I didn't like the way they responded. I went public on X with my dissatisfaction. Then I got a response from a different Hertz account asking me for the details and the reason for my dissatisfaction. I responded to them in a dm. They asked me for my phone number where they could reach me. I gave it to them. Within the next five minutes I got a call from I think it was a 234 area code. The caller ID said something like customer support. It didn't say anything about Hertz. I spoke to them. They asked again for the details of the incident and I told them why I was unhappy. They were very solicitous and said they were going to make it right and they were going to give me a refund. Somewhere there I got suspicious. Then they said they were going to give me a link to download an app. That really set off alarm bells. And because I realized I didn't know who these people were, I said, can we do this without me downloading an app? His initial reaction was, yes, we can, but it's going to delay your refund by 60 days because we're going to have to do it by email. He said, do you want to be delayed 60 days? I said, yeah, that's okay. I can wait. Then he got annoyed and hung up. And I realized I'd come very close to being scammed. I thought I was okay because I had initiated contact, but then I realized I hadn't. At least not with these people.

[Clark Howard]

Yeah, and thank you. I really appreciate you posting this because what happened once you went public on X with your complaint about Hertz, then you were fair game for people out there and a scammer went after you hard. So with Hertz, I can tell you by experience that we've heard from so many people, Hertz is a true customer no service organization. In fact, Hertz might win an annual award for customer no service. So with Hertz being so proud to treat people so badly who have problems with them, the one thing that I think may help is an organization I mentioned from time to time, elliot.org that has what they call executive level contacts at certain companies and they'll tell you if they are able to get results. That way it gets you outside the customer no service bureaucracy and may get your problem resolved with them. And I'd love to hear back from you if you try the elliot.org method of contacts that they can get you to and see if that does get this problem solved with Hertz that till this point has been unsolvable. And yes, maybe we should come up with our own hall of shame of companies with customer no service. Who knows? Coming up ahead, smart meters versus regular power meters at your house, smart plans versus dumb plans. What should you be doing?

[Don McDonald]

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[Megan Coyle]

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[Megan Coyle]

This episode is brought to you by Indeed.

[Clark Howard]

When your computer breaks, you don't wait for it to magically start working again. You fix the problem. So why wait to hire the people your company desperately needs? Use Indeed sponsored jobs to hire top talent fast and even better, you only pay for results. There's no need to wait. Speed up your hiring with a $75 sponsored job credit@ Indeed.com podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Your power company likely has installed what are known as smart meters at your residence or your small business. Smart meters initially started appearing a good long while ago that eliminated the labor cost of meter readers for power companies and other utilities have put in that kind of smart meter. It means that they can read your meter remotely and don't have to dispatch someone. And that was what they meant first long ago by smart meters. But then things morphed and today's Smart meters can charge you for power by time of day, even minute by minute, because what you and I don't focus on is behind the curtain. What a power company pays for the power they sell to us changes depending on what kind of contracts they're in. Second by second, minute by minute, whatever. So more and more power companies are offering you and me the ability with these smart meters to pay time of use. And with us, it's not really possible for us to be able to with our busy lives to watch what power costs the power company minute by minute. But there are general patterns, general trends. And so a lot of power companies now offer time of use where? In the afternoon and hot parts of the country from like 2 to 7 in the afternoon, usually starting about May day through till October 1, depending on where you are in the country. From 2 to 7, the cost of power is through the roof and then before 2 o'clock, after 7 till about midnight, power is a much more reasonable rate. And then midnight to like 5, 6 or 7am Power is really cheap, maybe even free. Free to you. So that's the most common, and I'm simplifying these time of use things. Then, in addition to having the time of use, they may have a regular plan that just sets rates by typically time of year. And so during high demand periods, you pay more per kilowatt because it's costing them more to supply the power. But I don't mean by hour of the day, I mean just time of year. So which should you be in? Depends on your lifestyle. If you're gone all day long and you put in like a nest or any other kind of smart thermostat, and you turn the temperature way up in your home during the peak hours that they're charging the crazy high kilowatt cost per kilowatt, then a smart meter would work for you. If you're gone during those hours anyway, off at work or whatever, why should you be paying a price that would not benefit you? So you're the kind of person, you put in that smart thermostat, you drive down your consumption during those five or so hours of the day, you're going to save a lot of money on your power. What about a family with kids, huh? Forget it, Forget it. Doing a smart meter and a thing where people are in or out of the house, you got millions of loads of laundry to do and all that, a smart meter will be the death of your wallet. If you go on the smart plan that has the peaks and the off peaks, the roughly 8% of people who drive an electric vehicle. These time of use plans are fantastic because you, with your home charger, if you have one, you set the vehicle only to charge during the hours that you're paying a penny a kilowatt or you're having free overnight power or whatever, and then you're running your vehicle. Your energy costs for your vehicle go to near zero. You gotta know your circumstance to see if it's worth it for you to go on time of day, time of use plans. Otherwise, the simple regular plan is the smarter choice. Do you have a smart meter at your home?

[Sally French]

No, I do not. I tried. The power company had a program that I tried and it did not work in my favor, so I stopped using it.

[Clark Howard]

So I used one for four years where it was a different kind of thing they offered. I got a lower rate if I would allow during the summer that they could take control of my air conditioner during hot days, hot afternoons, and send the temperature soaring in the house. Let me tell you, Lane and the kids were not happy with me. I was much happier with my wallet because, yeah, you'd sweat a little, but it saved us a ton on our electric bill because of how much power companies pay per second for power during peaking times.

[Sally French]

I mean, I could handle that during the day in the summer, but overnight I needed to be like an ICE locker, and I would never do that, honestly. Ken in Michigan says you need to.

[Clark Howard]

Have the ICE batteries when those become available.

[Sally French]

I do. I do. State Farm is offering TING fire safety devices to monitor my home and electrical system for free. The system uses a 24.7wi fi connection to talk with Tang. And it's supposed to provide early warning of potential electrical fire hazards. There's no insurance discount associated with it. Is this a good idea? And is there anything I should be aware of before signing up?

[Clark Howard]

Take the ting. Take it from State Farm. My insurer requires it and doesn't pay for it. State Farm is paying for it. You take the ting because, I mean, think about it, what it does. It's going to let you know that there's a potential fire hazard with some part of your electrical or also notify, get you, you know, get early fire response if there is apparently a small fire going on in your home. I think the ting thing is, is great.

[Sally French]

Take the ting. The ting.

[Clark Howard]

Take the ting.

[Sally French]

So many. Okay. Kimberly in Tennessee says, should I purchase a term life insurance policy for my spouse? He had a heart attack in October of 2024.

[Clark Howard]

Oh, I hope he's okay.

[Sally French]

He is doing fabulous and went from £256 to £220. I'm not working currently and he is retired. He will be 69, I'll be 60. This is our second marriage. We were both widowers. We have a will and zero debt. Any guidance you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

[Clark Howard]

All right, so number one, awesome. You have no debt. The purpose of the insurance is replacement of income for the survivor. And 69 retired having had a heart attack. Insurance is very difficult to obtain. But then there's also what is the purpose? Does your husband have a pension that ceases that you'll no longer have that household income at the time of his passing? So if your life would face a financial hazard, in addition to your heart suffering over the loss of your husband, if your finances would really be in trouble, then there's an insurable needle. Whether that insurable need is insurable at 69 with a heart attack requires you to get a life insurance agent to see if it's possible to buy an affordable term life insurance policy. Now at 69, the term life policy that will normally be available if it is medically underwritten, meaning that they say okay, will write this policy will generally be at that age what's known as an annual renewable term, that the insurance price would go up each year as what's known as mortality risk increases as we age each year. A level term policy that I usually talk about for people in their working years is not generally something you can purchase in retirement, particularly approaching age 70. But the real question is, is there a need for replacement of income at the time of his death? What do you lose? I know your heart, but what do you lose financially at the time either or of you pass away? And that brings the other thing for you. At age 60, do you need a life insurance policy to protect him if you are outlived by him by some chance? What money would he need from you in order to pay for life moving forward?

[Sally French]

Nick in Iowa says my question's about having enough long term disability coverage. My employer offers long term disability as part of my benefits and it has 60% income replacement until age 65. What should I consider for supplemental long term disability? Is it needed based on what I have through work, I've gotten some quotes and I've noticed a large increase in premium between having a 5 year benefit versus having it last until age 65. I would love to hear from you on what considerations should be looked at when adding this policy.

[Clark Howard]

So Nick, great question from you about disability insurance. I'm almost never asked about disability insurance. Even though we're three times more likely to be disabled and unable to work in our prime working years than we are to pass away during those years, people are much more likely to have life insurance, not have disability. Congratulations that you work for an employer who's looking out for you and provides disability insurance to you as part of your benefits package. It's great. So the company that provides the disability insurance through your employer may offer the ability for you at much lower cost than you buying a supplemental disability insurance policy from somewhere else. They may offer you an option to add on Normally people by disability 60% disability 70% and 70 is usually where it ends up is the cap on what you can buy. In most states you may be able at a very low additional cost with the existing policy to add on that additional 10%. But because the supplemental is so expensive to buy elsewhere, if you cannot add on that additional 10% through your employer plan, I'd rather see you take those premiums and build them up over time in a rainy day account and a Roth IRA instead of buying a separate supplemental policy. Because the 60% disability policy till age 65 is already getting you most of the way there and your dollars would be more efficiently spent now going towards savings or going into my beloved tax free Roth ira. And I want to thank you so much for joining us on today's episode and I hope that you have learned something that will help you pack a punch in your wallet and know that if somebody is taking advantage of you, you have a money question you're trying to figure out. Whatever we offer one on one free advice 30 hours each week from our Team Clark Consumer Action center. You can see everything you need to know about getting that free one on one advice. If you go to clark.com cac and it's just one part of our empowerment zone so that you are in a position to save more, spend less and avoid getting ripped off. Have a great day.

[Unknown]

Today's episode is sponsored by Smart Travel, a new podcast from NerdWallet. I'm Megan Coyle. And I'm Sally French. We're NerdWallet travel writers who help you turn dreamtrips into trips you can actually afford. Because, let's be honest, dreamtrips are usually synonymous with spending money. But my dream is to not spend much money at all. That's where Smart Travel comes in. We break down the best ways to stretch your travel dollars, whether it's scoring an upgrade without selling your soul decod loyalty programs so you can actually get something out of them, or figuring out if that ultra discount airline ticket is too good to be true. It usually is. And while we're at it, we'll show you how to turn canceled flights into lounge dinners and free hotel stays. Spoiler it involves a lot of patience and a little bit of research. But don't worry, we've already done the heavy lifting. Because being financially savvy doesn't mean you have to skip out on an adventure. It just means you're the genius who paid less for it. Each week, we bring you travel news, expert insights, and even some of our own travel wins and mishaps, all so you can travel more while paying less. And hey, you'll even have some fun along the way. So if you're ready to make your travel budget work harder and smarter, follow Smart Travel on your favorite podcast app. First stop SmarterTravel. See you soon.