03.19.25 Dealing With Debt / An Important Travel Warning

Summary

The Clark Howard Podcast: Episode Summary – March 19, 2025

Title: Dealing With Debt / An Important Travel Warning
Host: Clark Howard
Release Date: March 19, 2025

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Clark Howard, renowned for his expertise in personal finance, delves into two pressing topics in this episode: strategies for managing and eliminating debt, and a critical travel safety warning for solo travelers. Throughout the discussion, Clark provides actionable advice, shares listener questions, and underscores the importance of making informed financial and safety decisions.

1. Navigating the Complex World of Debt (00:54 - 06:41)

Avoiding Debt Scams

Clark begins by addressing the prevalent issue of debt scams that prey on individuals already struggling financially. He highlights the deceptive tactics employed by fraudulent debt relief services:

• False Promises: "People out there who promise to be a hero and promise they're going to clean up your debt for you... They're liars" (01:30).
• Payment Demands: Scammers often require upfront payments, sometimes in the hundreds or thousands, claiming they can magically eliminate debt.
• Ceasing Payments: A common scam involves advising debtors to stop all payments, which exacerbates their financial situation instead of improving it.

Legitimate Debt Solutions

Clark emphasizes the importance of seeking genuine support:

• Credit Counseling: "Legitimate help is going to require hard work on your part, and that's to go to a real, legitimate credit counselor" (04:10). He recommends organizations like the National Foundation for Credit Counseling (NFCC), which adhere to strict standards and can negotiate manageable payment plans.
• Debt Consolidation Caution: While consolidating multiple debts into a single payment might seem appealing, Clark warns, "People look at that as a lifeline... it's more rope to hang your finances" (05:00). He explains that without addressing underlying spending habits, debt can quickly accumulate again.
• Bankruptcy as a Last Resort: For those whose financial situations are dire, filing for bankruptcy may be necessary, though it’s seen as a last resort.

Key Takeaway: Effective debt management requires vigilance against scams and a commitment to legitimate, disciplined financial strategies.

2. Listener Questions on Debt Management

a. Handling Store Credit Card Replacements (Listener: Arnold, PA) (06:41 - 08:48)

Arnold in Pennsylvania seeks advice on replacing store-specific credit cards with new MasterCard and Capital One versions.

• Clark's Advice: He explains that transitioning to major credit networks (MasterCard, Visa) can positively impact credit scores. "It is to your advantage... MasterCard, Visa, Discover, American Express... they are treated very differently on your credit reporting" (07:13).
• Recommendation: Keep the new cards active to maintain available credit and credit mix, even if they are rarely used.

b. Managing High APR on Airline Credit Cards (Listener: Paul, FL) (08:48 - 11:41)

Paul faces a steep 29% APR on his Delta Platinum AMEX card, making monthly payments burdensome.

• Clark's Recommendation: Seek assistance from reputable credit counselors via nfcc.org to negotiate more favorable payment terms.
• Insight on Airline Cards: "Frequent flyer credit cards are the worst to run a balance on... they carry the highest interest rates" (09:26). Clark suggests considering cash back or transferable points cards for frequent travelers instead.

c. Deciding Whether to Close Paid-Off High-Interest Credit Cards (Listeners: Christina and Georgia) (11:41 - 13:27)

After paying off most of her credit cards, Christina wonders if she should cancel them or keep them inactive.

• Clark's Guidance: "You keep them because they stay active... they help your credit mix and credit score" (11:59). Closing cards can negatively impact credit scores by reducing available credit and altering credit utilization ratios. He congratulates her achievement and encourages maintaining the accounts in a locked state.

d. Travel Airfare Optimization (Listener: Logan, AZ) (20:22 - 24:20)

Logan seeks advice on securing the best airfare deals for a December wedding in Dublin, considering his fixed location in Phoenix.

• Clark's Strategy: Booking early for December travel can yield lower fares, especially before the peak Christmas period. "You should be able to find a deal around $500-$550 round trip from Phoenix" (22:02).
• Tools & Tips: Utilizing Google Flights alerts for multiple destinations and considering stopovers with airlines like Iceland Air for added benefits.

e. Identifying and Avoiding Pirate Streaming Services (Listener: Frank, FL) (24:20 - 26:02)

Frank in Florida inquires about a suspicious low-cost streaming service that accepts unconventional payment methods.

• Clark's Warning: Such services are typically pirate sites, illegally distributing content. "They are pirate sites... it's like back when we used to hear about people stealing music with Napster" (24:50).
• Recommendation: Stick to legitimate streaming platforms and utilize free, ad-supported services legally available.

f. Canceling a Misleading New Credit Card Without Hurting Credit Score (Listener: Donald, WI) (26:02 - 27:00)

Donald, with an excellent credit score of 820, wants to cancel a newly acquired misleading credit card without damaging his credit.

• Clark's Advice: Reject the card upon receipt if not needed, or close it while ensuring it doesn't negatively affect credit utilization ratios. "As long as you have sufficient available credit... no significant harm on your credit" (26:46).
• Additional Tip: Some issuers may offer to switch to a fee-free card, preserving credit benefits without the drawbacks of the unwanted card.

3. Critical Travel Warning: Protecting Yourself Abroad (13:27 - 20:48)

In an urgent segment, Clark issues a grave warning about increasing incidents of drink spiking and identity theft targeting travelers, particularly solo adventurers.

Nature of the Threat

• Criminal Rings: Sophisticated operations drug travelers to gain access to their personal belongings and financial information. Clark recounts a recent case where a criminal ring in New York used drug-induced scenarios to steal victims' identities and empty their bank accounts.
• Global Spread: While citing Brazil as a hotspot, Clark notes that such crimes are also emerging in Europe, Asia, and the United States.

Protective Measures

• Avoid Draft Beers: "Do not drink a draft beer. You want a bottle beer that the bartender opens in front of you" (19:00) to prevent tampering.
• Vigilance with Drugs: Recommends avoiding accepting recreational drugs from unknown sources to prevent being drugged and incapacitated.

Personal Impact

Clark shares a heartfelt story about a friend who fell victim to such a scheme, resulting in tragic loss, underscoring the real and present danger these crimes pose.

Parental Guidance

• Educating Young Travelers: Emphasizes the importance of parents educating their teens and young adults about these risks to ensure their safety during travels.

4. Budget-Friendly Wedding Planning: A Personal Anecdote (13:46 - 14:41)

Sharing a personal touch, Clark narrates how he and his wife assisted their daughter in planning a cost-effective wedding. By providing a set budget, the couple was able to create a memorable event without incurring exorbitant costs, subsequently saving leftover funds for a down payment on a home.

• Quote: "They were able to use it towards the down payment of the house" (14:21).
• Moral: Having a defined budget encourages mindful spending, preventing financial strain during significant life events.

5. Final Thoughts and Resources (26:02 - End)

Clark wraps up the episode by reiterating the importance of informed financial decisions and personal safety. He promotes his free resources available at clark.com and ClarkDeals.com, encouraging listeners to utilize these platforms for ongoing financial empowerment.

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Notable Quotes:

• "Legitimate help is going to require hard work on your part..." – Clark Howard (04:10)
• "People look at [debt consolidation] as a lifeline... it's more rope to hang your finances" – Clark Howard (05:00)
• "Don’t drink a draft beer... you want a bottle beer that the bartender opens in front of you" – Clark Howard (19:00)
• "As long as you have sufficient available credit... no significant harm on your credit" – Clark Howard (26:46)

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Conclusion

This episode of The Clark Howard Podcast serves as a vital resource for individuals grappling with debt and those preparing for international travel. Clark’s blend of expert advice, real-life examples, and listener interactions provides a comprehensive guide to overcoming financial hurdles and staying safe abroad. By addressing common financial pitfalls and emerging travel threats, Clark empowers his audience to make informed decisions that promote both financial stability and personal security.

For more detailed advice and resources, visit clark.com and engage with Clark’s community to further enhance your financial well-being.

Transcript

[Clark Howard]

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It's my pleasure to welcome you here to the Clark Howard Show. You know, our mission is to serve you with advice and information that empowers you so you make better financial decisions in your life. And you know, I want you to save more, spend less and avoid ripoffs. But what if you're already in a mess with your debt? How do you climb out without getting ripped off? We're going to talk about that and later. Oh, I have a danger out there I need to make sure you're aware of a warning for you when you travel. It's an important warning for all single travelers. So it's a cycle. And the number of people we're hearing from that are in debt with credit cards, whatever, but particularly with credit cards, is going through a cycle right now. And it's funny because. Funny ironic, not funny funny. Talked a while back about how many more people are in debt with credit cards overall. And then we're getting a reflection of that with the people we're hearing from. So I want to talk about a couple of things you got to know. So people out there who promise to be a hero and promise they're going to clean up your debt for you and they're going to do it magically. You just do the things they tell you to do. Pay them this money. Often it'll be in the upper hundreds or even in the thousands of dollars and they're going to wipe that slate clean for you. They're liars. They're liars and you end up in worse trouble than before. One of the techniques that these people will pitch you is stop paying on all your debt. Just Stop paying and everything's going to be great if you just stop paying. Let me tell you, that's not how it's going to play. Then the second scenario that is a big problem are phony debt counselors who will try to get you to pay them money up front, and they're going to counsel you into some kind of plan or supposedly negotiate for you. All that phony baloney. Then the third thing that's not a scam but seldom gets you out of debt is when people do debt consolidations where you got all these credit cards with debt, and they say, oh, we're going to just work it out where you'll have one easy monthly payment. And my experience over the years, it does not work. What does work? Well, okay, I'm going to get cold here, and I apologize, because we're dealing with something that's eating at you. If you have a level of debt that there's no way, you can see your way clear to paying, you're going to need help. Legitimate help is going to require hard work on your part, and that's to go to a real, legitimate credit counselor. Do not trust just because somebody's marketing themselves as a nonprofit. A lot of them are just scamsters hiding behind nonprofit status. One default you'll hear me talk about is nfcc, the national foundation for Credit Counseling that has standards that legit credit counselors must meet. And what they'll do is they'll see if they can work out a budget for you. If they can't, they will then go to bat for you with the people you owe money to and work out a payment plan. There's small administrative costs for managing the payment plan, but tiny money. And the goal is to get you out of debt. Now I'm going to. This is where it gets cold. People in the legitimate credit counseling business will tell you that a lot of times people don't come to them, not till the 11th hour, but the 12th hour, that the financial situation's too far gone. And that is, unfortunately, when it may become appropriate that you might have to file for bankruptcy. But I know the TV ads. And you think that's a first resort, that's a last resort to file for bankruptcy. But a payment plan, a legit payment plan from a legit credit counselor, if you can see your way to make it through, that payment plan will right the ship and get you out of debt. All right, so why do I hate consolidations so much? Because people look at that as a lifeline. I look at it as more rope to hang your finances because what tends to happen when somebody does a debt consolidation, the cards now have no balances on them, but there's been no change in what's going on in your life. So typically you're now having to make all those payments on that consolidation and creeping step by step, usually over within a year and a half the cards are charged back up and you have the consolidation. That's a train wreck. So takes hard work. If you've reached Armageddon financially, bankruptcy is there and is a potential clean slate. But none of this is the end of the world.

[Listener]

Krista okay, Arnold in Pennsylvania says I received notice from JCPenney and Kohl's that their cards are being replaced pennies by MasterCard and Kohl's by Capital One. I don't want to use either one because I already have a MasterCard and a capital One card. I use both store cards infrequently, so I'm not concerned with losing rewards. What's the best solution? Should I even activate the cards if I don't intend to use them or do I have to call the stores and cancel the cards? Is this a new trend with store cards? I'm sure other listeners are in the same situation and thanks for all you do.

[Clark Howard]

Okay, thank you for this question, Arnold, because this is a clear pattern that what are known as monolines credit card that's only good at a particular retailer or going the way of the dodo bird generally because the cards are expensive to run the programs the the store cards tend to have sky high interest rates on them. Not at all unusual to be 35, 36% on a store card and they tend to get more use if they're affiliated with MasterCard or Visa. You say with pennies it's becoming a MasterCard pennies card. Kohl's you say Capital One but you don't say is it still just only usable at Kohl's or is it a Capital One? Most often Capital One, although it could be a Visa, usually they're going to be mastercards. It is to your advantage, ironically enough, that the card no longer be a monoline card affiliated with one of the card networks. MasterCard, Visa, Discover, American Express, whatever are treated very differently on your credit reporting and in the mix of your credit score than a store only card. So it seems like a bad to you. It's actually a good even if you don't intend to use them. If you shop JCPenney and Kohl's it's potentially worth having for the discounts you get by having those cards, there's not an advantage to closing them.

[Listener]

Paul in Florida says, I love the show and consider you the patron saint of finance. I have the Delta Platinum AMEX card and my APR was just increased to 29% resulting in a minimum monthly payment of $736. What options do I have or should I do with this card? I have contacted them and they offered a long term financial relief program, but Even that is $635 for 48 months in the program. I'm thinking of reaching out to a consolidation company, but that would result in closing the account and a few dings on my already low credit score. However, making this payment will be very difficult month to month anyway.

[Clark Howard]

Paul, I'm really sorry you're this is a bad trap because frequent flyer credit cards are the worst to run a balance on. They carry the highest interest rates of any credit cards from a major issuer and they only work for people who can pay the balance in full, not occasionally, but every single month. That's obviously not the circumstance you're in and you're the perfect person to do what I just talked about and go to nfcc.org get with a legitimate credit counselor and they will have more negotiating power with American Express than you have coming up with a payment plan that works for you. One thing about when you go to a legitimate credit counselor, they'll not just look at this one card with amex, they'll be looking at your overall picture. You know, everything going on with your finances, your monthly obligations and all the rest. You'll be filling out a lot of paperwork to try to determine what's got to give in your budget or in your life to make your finances work more in your favor. And it's worth going through that process. I want to say something else about the airline cards. Because of the extreme valuation of airline frequent flyer points, the points from American, United and Delta are really not that great anymore to have and the cards are not that wonderful to have unless there are perks with them other than the points that make it worth having those cards. Otherwise they really are something that needs to go extinct in your life. The best cards to have if you are a frequent traveler is to look at the cards that the points are transferable to a variety of purposes, a variety of airlines, or just a simple cash back card.

[Listener]

Christina and Georgia says, I just recently paid off most of my credit cards.

[Clark Howard]

Congratulations Christina.

[Listener]

They all have very high interest rates. They are in the 30% range. My question is, should I cancel them or just keep them and not use them. Right now I have them locked and put away so that I do not use them.

[Clark Howard]

Yeah, you keep them because they stay active for a good long while is part of what makes up your credit mix and helps your credit score. You close them, ironically enough, you will impact lower your credit score potentially by a meaningful amount of points because the amount of your available credit, the percent of your available credit you're using represents roughly a third of what makes up your credit score. So you want to keep those cards locked away like you have them so you don't use them, but it will still help you in your credit standing and credit mix and credit score. And congratulations to you and thank you for sharing that you've been able to pay off these cards because that's inspiration to others who feel like they just can't get their arms around their debt. It happened step by step, month by month and you made it happen. I have more about how to to pay down balances on credit [e-mail] how I recommend you do it the most efficient way to get it done on clark.com coming up ahead. I got to talk about something that single travelers face that could cost you your life when you're traveling. I need for you to pay attention to this because it's a serious fast growing crime around the world.

This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Applying for Apple Card is quick and easy. Apply in the Wallet app today and see a credit limit offer in minutes subject to credit approval. Apple Card by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch Member FDIC terms and [e-mail] hey Clarkies, you liked it.

[Listener]

So much last time that we decided to play another Clark minute. And here it is.

[Clark Howard]

This is Clark Howard. Okay, get this. The average cost of a wedding now in the United states is around $36,000. That's a lot of money. And my wife and I came up with a plan for our daughters and with our first daughter to get married, it worked like a charm. What we did was we gave she and her intended an amount of money and then they could plan whatever wedding they wanted to or whatever money was left over. They were able to use it towards the down payment of the house. Let me tell you, they did a budget wedding. You know, if there is no incentive in a family for a couple to be careful what they spend on a wedding, you can blow a lot of money.

[Don McDonald]

Hey there Don McDonald from the Talking Real Money podcast looking for a source of honest consumer centric financial help. While obviously biased, I think you'll find that Talking Real Money is what you're looking for. My co host Tom and I have spent most of our careers helping people like you manage their money on radio, tv and podcasts. Joe from Stacking Benjamin's and Paul Merriman from Sound Investing both love Talking Real Money, and I'm pretty sure you will too. Why? Because we tell the truth about saving and investing based on decades of academic research, not a bunch of dubious hunches or mysterious premonitions. Talking Real Money is both a valuable education and a lot of fun. Plus, we answer your questions on almost every episode. So if you're looking for a better way to manage money and build wealth, look up Talking Real Money on your favorite podcast service, like this one. Ask your smart speaker to play Talking Real Money or go visit us online at talking real money.com this message is.

[Clark Howard]

Brought to you by Apple Card Apple Card is everything a credit card should be. It's easy to manage, built to be secure, and gives users up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase. The best part about Apple Card is applying is quick and easy. Apply in the Wallet app on your iPhone and see your credit limit offer in minutes subject to credit approval. Apple Card by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch Member FDIC terms and [e-mail] There was a criminal trial.

In New York recently that got a lot of coverage around the United States because this ring was targeting people in bars and slipping drugs into their drinks. Then they were using their faces on iPhones to unlock their phone and empty their bank accounts and brokerage accounts. Along the way, there were people who they put too much drugs in the drinks. People died. And the criminal ring, thankfully, was busted by hard detective work by police in New York. And the criminals are where they belong, behind bars. But this type of crime has spread around the globe and you as a traveler heading out, enjoying yourself with nightlife, whatever, you need to be aware. In fact, the State Department has issued a new warning about travelers repeatedly being drugged in Brazil. But it's not just Brazil. There are reports about this happening in Europe, in Asia, around the world, just as it's happened here in the United States. And you need to be very, very careful when you're out having a good time. So I have a simple rule, and that is even if you don't like beer very much, that beer is what you drink when you're out and about where it's popped open in front of you. Do not drink a draft beer. You want a bottle beer that the bartender opens in front of you so that you don't have to worry about something put in your drink. And if you do ever use recreational drugs, I can't act like people don't use those. You ever use recreational drugs and you meet somebody and you're hanging out with them and say, hey, you want to do whatever? Don't take any drugs that they're supplying because you could be set up. And the cases in Brazil that there are so many, unfortunately they've happened in Brazil. There are criminal rings targeting guys specifically, as also has happened in Europe. And you'll meet a woman in a bar and she'll lure you back to her place or the hotel you're staying at or whatever. They prefer to go to your hotel. I'll tell you why in a second. They drug you and while you're drugged, they take all your stuff. Your passport is worth a lot of money outside the United States. Passports, number one target they want to get from you. Of course. They get your credit cards, your money, whatever. Your iPhone, Android. Much more interested in iPhones, iPhone. People tend to have more money anyway, so know that this is a copycat kind of crime that is unfortunately really, really in right now with criminals. Parents. If you've got a teenager or 20something who's going off on an adventure with friends overseas, make sure you give them the talk, the eye roll talk that they're going to be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a certain naivete, particularly with late teens, early 20s, that puts them at risk. I mean, you think about how many generations of women have been warned about somebody putting something in their drink right now in addition to women. Guys, we got to pay attention to this because this is a real and present danger to your health, your finances, potentially your life. Okay, daddy Clark, time is over.

[Listener]

Well, and you, you knew someone that this happened to.

[Clark Howard]

Someone who died from the actions of one of these criminal rings. A really great person who at the prime of his life is deceased now because he was a victim of one of these criminal rings.

[Listener]

Super scary. I know. There's also things that you can buy where you can test your drink. People often cover their drink when they leave. I mean, just crazy.

[Clark Howard]

What's wrong with my beer suggestion?

[Listener]

I mean, that's. Yeah, whatever that bottle beer opened in front of you. Yeah. Okay, we'll go to questions now. Logan in Arizona has a travel question. My significant other and I are attending a wedding in Dublin in early December. Normally, I'm a big fan of going where the deal is, but Given that I have a fixed state and location, how can I get the best airfare? In a perfect world I'd use Points Chase or Amex. But I'm also happy to pay cash if that gets me the better price. Should I be looking at flights to other large European airports and then flying someone like Ryanair to Dublin? And should I be looking for deals to London and just sucking it up and going through customs and immigrations twice? Should I be trying to fly or drive somewhere else in the US First? Ultimately we only plan to stay for a day or two in Ireland for the wedding and and then we plan to stay spend the rest of our time neither Switzerland, Austria or the Czech Republic. My local airport is Phoenix, if that helps. Thanks for all you do in saving your listeners time, money and headaches with the airlines.

[Clark Howard]

Well Logan, congratulations that you have have to go to this wedding. So you have to go to Europe. But couldn't they have picked a better month to get married than December?

[Listener]

Well, that's good for your wallet though, right?

[Clark Howard]

It is really good for your wallet unless it's not too close to Christmas. If you're in the air by haven't looked at this year's calendar, no later than the 14th or 15th of December, you should get some of the lowest fares of the year. You're too early to buy those right now and going, you know, the old Scott's cheap flight. See I had to say it. Put out a list recently that found fortunately for you, that Dublin has lately been the best deal airport to fly to in Europe if I'm not misquoting what going said. But there have been deals one after another to Dublin and the best deals naturally are from the east coast, from Boston, where there's such a large Irish population. Any market served by Iceland Air where you can go via Reykjavik, have a free stopover in Iceland, what could be more fun in December and then to have a free stop over in Iceland if you want. But anyway, the deals for December, as long as you don't cross into that peak Christmas cycle, 15th or 16th of December, you're going to find very good deals even from out west, not having to come back east, you should be able to find a deal around 500, 550 round trip from Phoenix to get you to Dublin. But if a great deal comes along to one of the other airports, one of the other places you're going, Switzerland, Austria, Czech Republic, grab it and go, go to that and set up alerts to Prague, set up an alert to Vienna, set up an alert To Zurich, Geneva, whatever, as well as Dublin on Google Flights. And every time the fare moves, Google Flights will give you an alert. When the fare is what you want, go ahead and buy it at that point. But this should be, barring the peak of that Christmas cycle in December, this should be a real deal ticket, Frank.

[Listener]

In Florida, says Clark, While in Florida for the winter, some neighbors have been talking about a TV streaming service called a. Do you want me to say the name?

[Clark Howard]

Don't want you to say the name. Called something that's a stolen name named after pretending to be another company.

[Listener]

Ah, 1,000 channels, local channels, sports, movies, et cetera, for $160 per year. You pay through cash app, Bitcoin or Shakepay. They have a website and here's the website. Is this legit?

[Clark Howard]

Okay, Frank, let's think about this. The only way you can pay them is through cash app, Bitcoin or Shake pay. Do they sound legit? No, these are pirate sites. There are lots of pirate sites. People ask us about them all the time. This one I always have gotten a kick out of because they use the same exact name as a big company that is a legit company. And so people think, oh, this must be okay. They're using a media company. It's a media company's operation and it's completely. I mean, you can use it and you'll get the programming, but you're stealing it. Don't know that you'll suffer consequences for it. But this is like back when we 20 years ago used to hear about people stealing music with. Was it Napster?

[Listener]

Yeah, there's also like a lot of these channels are actually available for free that they, they promote. Like I have a Google television and Google TV on there is free. Not their YouTube TV that they own, but Google TV. And it just, it's a large collection of already available streaming TV channels online and free old TV shows.

[Clark Howard]

What we have on clark.com, we have our fast guide, free ad supported television. The amount of content now available for free legitimately. Just like what happened in music where with music, what really got rid of all the, the people stealing music was all these music services that you can listen in one form or another for free with ads has really become the thing in music for people that are cheap, like me to listen to the ads. I have free music and same thing in television.

[Listener]

Donald in Wisconsin says, is there any way to cancel a new credit card that I was misled into taking without damaging my credit score, which is 820 right now?

[Clark Howard]

Okay, so Donald got a brand new card. You don't have to accept it. When it comes to you, you can reject that card. You will still have the small hit for a hard inquiry. That will be very few points as long as you have sufficient available credit otherwise. And they kind you say, oh, this card's gonna do all these great things for you and you get it. It's a bunch of hooey. You can close that account and you will have no significant harm on your credit. Again, as long as you have sufficient available credit that your ratios remain good. What's your ratio that you're never using more than 30% of your available credit limit on credit cards. As long as you are staying below that 30% closing this card, you're good. And this card may have some kind of ugly annual fee. When you call to cancel, they may say why? You say, well, I thought it was going to do this. It doesn't. They may offer to convert that card to a fee free card that would keep your available credit in your mix and you'd be able to have that as an alternative solution. And thank you so much for joining us on today's podcast. Remember, we serve you around the clock. As I mentioned a second ago with our free streaming [e-mail] we have Clark Deals where you get the latest hot deals of the day and then for each we have a daily free newsletter, the Clark Newsletter and the Clark Deals Newsletter. The whole idea of these is to give you wonderful, I believe information that empowers you with knowledge so you can save more, spend less and avoid getting ripped off and have a great day.