The Clark Howard Podcast: Episode Summary – July 15, 2025

Title: Ask An Advisor With Wes Moss
Host: Clark Howard
Guests: Wes Moss, Krista Dibiaz
Release Date: July 15, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of The Clark Howard Podcast, host Clark Howard teams up with financial advisor Wes Moss and co-host Krista Dibiaz to address critical financial topics that resonate with many listeners. The primary focus revolves around Social Security, target retirement date funds, and answering listener-submitted financial questions. The discussion aims to empower individuals to make informed decisions about their personal finances, ensuring a secure and prosperous future.

1. Social Security: Maximizing vs. Optimizing Benefits

Discussion Highlights:

Wes Moss delves into the complexities of Social Security, emphasizing that there isn't a one-size-fits-all answer to when one should begin taking benefits. He outlines the importance of considering personal longevity, spousal benefits, and the impact on retirement assets.

Key Points:

• Maximizing Benefits: To receive the highest possible annual Social Security payment, it's advisable to delay claiming benefits until age 70. This strategy maximizes yearly payouts but requires a longevity outlook of at least 12 years to recoup the benefits foregone by waiting.

  Wes Moss [01:40]: "If the question is how do I maximize my Social Security, the answer is that one is not an opinion. That's easy. You just work as long as you can work and then you wait as long as you can wait all the way to age 70 to start taking Social Security."

• Optimizing Benefits: Instead of solely focusing on maximizing, Wes suggests optimizing Social Security based on individual circumstances. This approach considers factors such as full retirement age (FRA), spousal benefits, and the necessity to preserve retirement assets.

  Wes Moss [02:50]: "My overarching thesis around when to take Social Security and how to approach it is to optimize your social, not maximize your social."

Rules of Thumb for Optimization:

1. Work Until FRA: Typically around age 67, continuing to work can delay Social Security benefits without penalty.
2. Spousal Benefits: Delaying benefits can enhance spousal payouts, acting as income insurance.
3. Preserving Retirement Assets: If withdrawing from retirement accounts at high rates threatens financial stability, taking Social Security earlier may be beneficial.

Notable Quote:

Wes Moss [09:06]: "You should take it as late as you can."

2. Addressing Retirement Anxiety and Financial Security

Listener Question: An anonymous listener from Illinois expresses fear about running out of money in retirement despite having substantial savings and a pension. The question probes whether this anxiety is normal or if both financial and behavioral counseling are needed.

Discussion Highlights:

• Prevalence of Financial Anxiety: Wes shares his research indicating that financial fears, particularly concerning uncontrollable economic conditions and the stock market, are prevalent even among those with significant assets.

  Wes Moss [11:24]: "The biggest fears in retirement, number one. And this actually creeps above health."

• Behavioral Counseling: Krista emphasizes the psychological aspects of financial fears, advocating for therapy to manage underlying anxieties.

  Krista Dibiaz [12:44]: "It is a psychological thing."

• Concrete Financial Planning: Wes suggests that creating a detailed financial plan can alleviate fears by providing clarity on spending needs and investment strategies.

  Wes Moss [14:38]: "It's part art and it's part science or it's part behavior."

Notable Quote:

Krista Dibiaz [17:14]: "If it's causing you to lose sleep, oh, you have underlying anxiety, why not? You know what I mean?"

3. The Advantages and Downsides of Trusts

Listener Question: Eric from North Carolina inquires about the benefits and drawbacks of placing a primary residence in a trust, including considerations like costs and the impact on financial instruments like HELOCs or reverse mortgages.

Discussion Highlights:

• Types of Trusts: Wes explains the difference between revocable living trusts and irrevocable trusts, highlighting their purposes and complexities.

  Wes Moss [18:00]: "The most common one is a revocable living trust."

• Advantages: The primary benefit of a living trust is the avoidance of probate, ensuring a smoother transfer of assets to heirs without court intervention.

  Wes Moss [19:51]: "You can essentially don't have to worry your heirs something happens to you. You don't have to worry about going to through the court process to have the asset change hands."

• Downsides: The main drawback is the cost associated with setting up a trust, though Wes notes that it is relatively affordable compared to the potential benefits.

  Wes Moss [19:52]: "The downside, the short answer is just cost."

Notable Quote:

Wes Moss [22:10]: "Trust, then they get more complicated. You have irrevocable trust that can be used more for protecting your assets from lawsuits or creditors."

4. Target Retirement Date Funds: A Critical Examination

Listener Question: The discussion shifts to target retirement date funds, with Wes offering a critical perspective while Krista provides a balanced view.

Discussion Highlights:

• Wes's Critique: Wes likens target date funds to "TV dinners" of the investment landscape—prepackaged and convenient but potentially suboptimal without customization. He argues that these funds may become overly conservative, allocating too much to bonds and too little to equities, which can hinder growth and the ability to keep up with inflation.

  Wes Moss [29:10]: "They almost get too conservative for my liking."

• Krista's Perspective: While acknowledging Wes's points, Krista aligns with Clark's appreciation for target date funds' simplicity and accessibility, especially for those in the accumulation phase of investing.

• Alternative Recommendations: Wes suggests balanced funds with a fixed allocation (e.g., 50% equities, 50% bonds) as a more tailored alternative that avoids the pitfalls of target date funds becoming overly conservative.

  Wes Moss [31:50]: "If you're a pure buy and hold investor, I actually would err towards the index mutual fund. Same cost if cost is equivalent."

Notable Quote:

Wes Moss [27:28]: "Target date fund, I think we all know what they do. They're a set it and forget it way to invest."

5. Strategic Decisions on Social Security Timing

Listener Question: Scott from Washington seeks advice on whether to draw from retirement accounts and let Social Security benefits grow until age 70 or to take benefits earlier at 62, considering potential job loss and reduced income.

Discussion Highlights:

• Balancing Withdrawals and Social Security: Wes emphasizes the importance of addressing immediate financial threats, such as potential job loss, before considering strategies like Roth conversions.

  Wes Moss [21:34]: "You got to take care of the big problems and the scariest problems first."

• Rule of 55: For those anticipating early retirement or job loss, utilizing the Rule of 55—which allows penalty-free withdrawals from a 401(k) if you leave your job at 55—can provide a safety net.

  Wes Moss [22:20]: "The rule of 55, meaning if you're at that company and you get laid off, it doesn't matter what you leave for, as long as you're 55 and you have a 401k plan at that work and they allow for this."

• Investment Growth vs. Benefit Delay: Wes cautions against relying solely on high investment returns to offset delayed Social Security benefits, noting the complexities in directly comparing investment growth to Social Security payout increases.

Notable Quote:

Wes Moss [33:05]: "You don't know when you're going to die. We don't know when we're going to die."

6. Saving for College and Retirement: Navigating 529 Plans and Roth IRAs

Listener Question: Drew from Alabama, a high-income earner, seeks advice on saving for his children’s college education through 529 accounts and the feasibility of converting unused funds to a Roth IRA.

Discussion Highlights:

• Understanding 529 Plans: Wes explains that 529 plans are designed specifically for educational expenses and come with strict conversion limitations to prevent misuse.

  Wes Moss [37:41]: "They make it so you can only convert up to 35 grand."

• Roth Conversions: Given Drew's high income, direct Roth IRA contributions are restricted. Wes suggests exploring Roth 401(k) options if available through his employer.

  Wes Moss [37:33]: "If you have the opportunity at work, I would think, Drew, you probably have a Roth 401k option too."

• Whole Life Insurance vs. Dry Powder: Clarifying misconceptions, Wes differentiates between whole life insurance policies and liquid assets ("dry powder") that can be utilized during retirement.

  Wes Moss [36:52]: "The trust itself allows the trustee just to say this is where this money goes."

Notable Quote:

Wes Moss [36:49]: "The main point here is that is not dry powder."

7. S&P 500 Fund vs. ETF: Choosing the Right Vehicle

Listener Question: A listener from Michigan, Ron, asks about the differences and benefits between investing in an S&P 500 mutual fund versus an S&P 500 ETF.

Discussion Highlights:

• Mutual Funds vs. ETFs: Wes compares mutual funds to sturdy yeti containers and ETFs to more accessible glass tumblers, emphasizing that both provide exposure to the same underlying assets but differ in trading flexibility.

  Wes Moss [39:44]: "They're still getting access to the same 500 companies at should be the same cost at 0.02 or 0.01% cost."

• Trading Flexibility: ETFs offer real-time trading and liquidity, allowing investors to buy and sell throughout the trading day. In contrast, mutual funds are priced once a day and are better suited for long-term, buy-and-hold strategies.

• Investment Strategy Alignment: For pure buy-and-hold investors, mutual funds may be preferable to avoid the temptation of frequent trading. Conversely, more active investors might favor ETFs for their flexibility.

  Wes Moss [41:39]: "You can do that in the fund version, ETF version. So if you find yourself, if it's helpful, if you're a pure buy and hold investor, I actually would err towards the index mutual fund."

Notable Quote:

Wes Moss [42:11]: "It's a little clunkier. You're not able to sell it midday."

Conclusion

In this insightful episode, Clark Howard, alongside Wes Moss and Krista Dibiaz, navigates through nuanced financial topics that are pivotal for listeners planning their financial future. From optimizing Social Security benefits and managing retirement anxiety to understanding trusts and evaluating investment vehicles, the discussion offers valuable guidance tailored to diverse financial situations. By addressing real listener questions, the episode underscores the importance of personalized financial planning and the delicate balance between strategic investment and psychological well-being.

Notable Closing Quote:

Krista Dibiaz [42:18]: "Have a great day."

Resources Mentioned:

• Submit Your Questions: www.clark.com/askclark
• Community and Newsletters: clark.com/newsletters

This summary provides a comprehensive overview of the episode’s key discussions and insights, equipped with notable quotes and timestamps to enhance understanding for those who haven't listened to the full podcast.