The Clark Howard Podcast

Episode: 09.02.25 – Ask An Advisor With Wes Moss
Date: September 2, 2025
Host: Clark Howard (absent in this episode)
Guests: Wes Moss (Financial Advisor), Krista DiBiaz

Episode Overview

This week’s episode centers on long-term investment strategy, retirement planning, and navigating the landscape of dividends, bonds, and the state of U.S. manufacturing productivity. Wes Moss and Krista DiBiaz explore practical tips for savers and investors, answering listener questions about asset allocation, Roth conversions, emergency funds, and more. Additionally, the duo delves into the future of American manufacturing and how innovation is impacting productivity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Wes is Still “In Love with Dividends”

[00:46 – 08:01]

• Dividends as the Unsung Hero of Investing

  • Wes’s Perspective: Dividend growth is often overlooked, but over time, increases in dividend payouts are an essential tool for outpacing inflation and building long-term wealth.
  • Historical Perspective: Their study shows that $10,000 invested in the S&P 500 in 1980 generated around $500 annually in dividends; by 2025, that annual income would have grown to over $7,000 due to dividend growth alone—even without reinvestment.
  • Quote:

    “If you were to boil it down to one reason we’re investing [it’s] to protect our purchasing power… if costs go up two times, we’re hoping our income goes up two times or more. And that’s what we’ve seen over the course of history.”
    (Wes Moss, 03:07)

• Bonds vs. Stocks over 45 Years:

  • Initial bond yields in 1980 were much higher than stocks (11% vs 5%). But over 45 years, stock dividends skyrocketed (~1,200% growth) while bond interest declined (~40% decrease).
  • 1980’s $10,000 in bonds grew to ~$14,000 with $682 annual interest today; in S&P 500 stocks, it ballooned to over $570,000 and $7,000 annual dividend.
  • Total Return Perspective: With dividend reinvestment, stocks returned 180x, bonds 18x, and inflation went up ~4x.

2. Listener Q&A: Asset Allocation, Risk, and Retirement Strategies

Q1: Why Invest in Bonds at All?

[08:19 – 13:16]

• Listener Joseph (FL) challenges bonds as “losers” versus stocks given growing money supply and inflation.
• Wes:
  • Admits bonds are “relative losers” but not total losers; they provide stability and can still beat inflation over time.
  • “They’re apples and oranges… Apples (stocks) bring more variety, flavor, and growth; oranges (bonds) are blander, but provide needed balance.”
  • Quote:

    “Even though over time we know stocks are far and away the winner—18x vs 180x over long periods—I think the oranges allow you to participate and spend more time with the apples.”
    (Wes Moss, 12:45)

Q2: ‘Dry Powder’ and Infinite Time Horizon

[13:16 – 17:03]

• Cynthia (OR): What asset allocation rule for retirees whose pensions and Social Security exceed their expenses?
• Wes: You have an “infinite time horizon” if never tapping into investments for basic needs; thus, you can invest as aggressively or conservatively as you want, depending on risk tolerance and legacy wishes.
• Quote:

  “If you have guaranteed income above your spending needs, then to some extent you have a forever time horizon.”
  (Wes Moss, 15:32)

Q3: Starting Retirement as a Self-Employed Individual

[17:03 – 21:41]

• MK (Mary Katherine), a 46-year-old self-employed hair stylist, asks how to invest a $35k CD and start contributing $100/week for retirement.
• Wes:
  • Recommends a Solo 401(k)—allows hefty contributions and investment flexibility.
  • Stresses the importance of stock market participation for growth: “You’re not going to get that 7-10% [annual return] in cash or bonds.”
  • Offers “big picture math”: $1,000/mo for 25 years at 8% = ~$1 million; even small contributions add up.

3. U.S. Manufacturing & Productivity: The New Frontier

[24:00 – 32:56]

• From Jetsons to 2025: Wes uses pop culture (the Jetsons) to illustrate that despite automation and tech advances, real productivity improvements are gradual, not futuristic leaps.
• Data Deep-Dive:
  • In 1950, the U.S. had ~20M manufacturing jobs. Today: 12.7M—but manufacturing output is more than double (output index from 40 to 100+).
  • Productivity surged 2–4% annually post-WWII (“green zone”), slowed from 1985-2010, went “anemic,” but recently rebounded to 2–2.5% (“back in the green zone”).
  • Factors: Robotics, AI-driven supply chain, data innovation, and “Mittelstand” (German: specialized mid-size companies)—especially in the Midwest.
  • Quote:

    “Maybe the old frontier is the new frontier… It could be hiding in the Midwest. I think that’s good news for the U.S. economy.”
    (Wes Moss, 32:32)

4. Rapid-Fire Retirement and Financial Planning Questions

[32:56 – 44:49]

• Joseph (NH), age 60, low savings, asks if he should cut 401(k) contributions to build emergency fund.

  • Wes: Roth IRAs (after 59½ and 5-year holding rule) can serve as an emergency fund due to penalty/tax-free withdrawals, but shifting more contribution toward Roth 401k is smart for flexibility.
  • Quote:

    “To some extent, your Roth 401k and a vintaged Roth IRA… that is, to some extent, an emergency fund in its own right.”
    (Wes Moss, 34:13)

• Patrick (AZ), age 58, wants to pay cash for a $300,000 house but preserve liquidity.

  • Wes: Don’t deplete liquid reserves; avoid early IRA withdrawals (penalties). Maybe split: use some cash, take a manageable mortgage; revisit IRA access after 59½.

• Sharissa (CA), wants to convert traditional IRA to Roth given a stable/higher future income.

  • Wes: Conversion makes sense if you expect same/higher tax bracket later. Break up conversions over a few years to avoid bumping into higher tax brackets.
  • Quote:

    “If your taxes are going to be as high or higher… this is the time to [convert]. So you’re right on it.”
    (Wes Moss, 42:07)

• Strategy: Always consult a CPA or tax advisor for personalized tax planning, especially for Roth conversions and considering “IRMAA” (Medicare premium brackets).

  • Wes’s strong recommendation:

    “Yes. Taxes are complicated… highly, highly influenced… You’ve got to go through the whole process to really get a clear picture. So yes, invaluable.”
    (Wes Moss, 43:41)

Memorable Quotes

• “Dividends grew at almost, let’s call it 6% a year, while inflation was at about 3.” (Wes Moss, 06:43)
• “Stocks are the far and away winner—18x vs 180x… but the oranges (bonds) let you spend more time with the apples (stocks).” (Wes Moss, 12:45)
• “If you have guaranteed income above your spending needs, then to some extent you have a forever time horizon.” (Wes Moss, 15:32)
• “Maybe the old frontier is the new frontier… hiding in the Midwest.” (Wes Moss, 32:32)
• “A Roth account is as good or better than a good old fashioned after-tax account, right?” (Wes Moss, 34:13)
• “Taxes are complicated… You’ve got to go through the whole process to really get a clear picture.” (Wes Moss, 43:41)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Dividends & Long-Term Investing: [01:11 – 08:01]
• Bonds vs. Stocks (Listener Joseph): [08:19 – 13:16]
• Dry Powder & Retirees (Listener Cynthia): [13:16 – 17:03]
• Self-Employed Retirement Planning (Listener MK): [17:03 – 21:41]
• Manufacturing & Productivity Discussion: [24:00 – 32:56]
• Rapid-Fire Q&A: Emergency Funds, Home Buying, Roth Conversion, CPA Advice: [32:56 – 44:49]

Episode Tone & Final Thoughts

The episode is friendly, practical, and optimistic, focused on empowering listeners with actionable financial advice. Wes and Krista's dynamic includes humor, personal anecdotes, and clear analogies (apples vs. oranges, Jetsons references), making the financial content accessible and engaging for all listeners. The consistent message: strategic, steady investing beats hasty decisions, and the importance of matching your financial plan to your risk tolerance, stage of life, and income certainty—always with an eye on taxes, inflation, and long-term growth.