10.02.25 SPECIAL EDITION: A tribute To Financial Mentor Jonathan Clements

Summary

Podcast Summary: SPECIAL EDITION – A Tribute To Financial Mentor Jonathan Clements

Podcast: The Clark Howard Podcast
Host: Clark Howard
Guest: Jonathan Clements (archival interview)
Date of Interview: Circa May/June 2024 (originally aired October 2, 2025)

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Overview

This special edition is a heartfelt tribute to Jonathan Clements, a pioneering personal finance writer recently passed due to terminal cancer. Clark Howard honors his friend by rebroadcasting a candid, insightful interview from a year earlier, where Jonathan discusses lessons from his storied career, his evolving investment philosophies, and—most powerfully—realizations about life, happiness, and financial preparedness in the face of terminal illness. Their conversation blends personal vulnerability with practical, actionable advice on both money and the essential (but often avoided) topic of end-of-life planning.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jonathan’s Background and Approach to Money

• Jonathan was born in London, grew up in the U.S., then educated in the UK, acquiring a hybrid “pseudo English accent.”
• Became the Wall Street Journal’s personal finance columnist in 1994, known for relentlessly advocating indexing and keeping things simple for readers.
• Diagnosed with stage 4 genetic (not lifestyle-related) lung cancer at 61, he began openly sharing his experience, which garnered attention for his honesty and pragmatism about mortality.

Quote:
"I was known as the guy at the Wall Street Journal who just couldn't stop pounding the table for index funds... At the end of my career, I've become renowned for dying. It's a very strange twist."
—Jonathan Clements [04:20]

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2. Openness About Death and Its Social Taboo

• Both Clark and Jonathan note how most people are deeply uncomfortable discussing death, often using euphemisms instead.
• Jonathan’s matter-of-factness about his mortality is highlighted as both unusual and invaluable.

Quote:
"You talk about it like, yeah, I'm going to the market... most humans just can't... even if they know somebody's dying. Or they themselves are dying. They just can't utter the words."
—Clark Howard [06:23]

• Jonathan emphasizes it’s often harder for loved ones left behind, admitting:
  “If you’re the one that’s dying, in some sense, you have the better half of the bargain because you’re not going to be the one who is left behind.” [09:49]

• His philosophy: avoid despair, enjoy each day, and continue doing meaningful things for as long as possible.

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3. Reflections on Frugality, Planning, and Money’s Purpose

• Jonathan lived far below his means, saving “great gobs of money”—not just for himself, but for his family's future security.
• He dissects the myth that saving “too much” is wasted effort (“What if you die early?”), countering that money’s greatest gift is security and the ability to support others.

Quote:
"Money buys happiness, but not in the way that people think... The number one way it buys you happiness is it gives you a sense of financial security. If you want to buy happiness, don't spend it."
—Jonathan Clements [12:46]

• He finds deeper satisfaction using money for experiences with family and to create freedom in his days, rather than accumulating possessions.

• Post-diagnosis, he loosened his frugality for “special times,” e.g., booking a memorable trip with children and their families.

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4. End-of-Life Financial Planning: What Even Experts Overlook

• Jonathan admits that even he—the “cobbler”—wasn’t fully prepared:
  • Didn’t have all documents and accounts neatly organized.
  • Didn’t update powers of attorney or healthcare directives until after diagnosis.
  • Had extra credit cards, unnecessary complexity, and outdated paperwork.

Practical Steps Taken:

• Canceled unused/extra credit cards to ease estate tasks.
• Made spouse joint owner of accounts to avoid probate and ensure easy access.
• Consolidated retirement accounts (e.g., rolled solo Roth 401(k) into a Roth IRA.)
• Updated will and got necessary legal documents (power of attorney, healthcare proxy.)

Advice for Listeners:

• Prepare and keep a comprehensive list of all accounts, insurance policies, utilities, usernames, and passwords.
• Store crucial documents in a fireproof box (“My kids and Elaine all know where the box is…” [26:15])
• Don’t neglect digital access—keep cell plans temporarily active post-death for two-factor logins.

Notable Warning:
"Anything that you don’t throw out, your family is likely to think it is important."
—Jonathan Clements [27:53]

• Don’t burden loved ones with old paperwork, unnecessary tax returns, or personal effects.

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5. The Family Conversation and Its Difficulties

• Sat down with his wife and adult children post-diagnosis to detail what’s where and what to expect; found it took multiple conversations for them to absorb even basic financial concepts.

Quote:
"If you're a financial nerd, you probably do not realize what other people don't understand... Don't imagine you can sort it out with one final conversation..."
—Jonathan Clements [22:16]

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6. Emotional Planning: Legacy, Memories & End-of-Life Wishes

• He’s chosen cremation, wishes his ashes scattered in Philadelphia’s Schuylkill River, and requests a simple memorial stone near a favorite bench at his home. [30:44]
• Recommends sorting out personal effects and old letters/photos—to relieve family of emotional and practical burdens.

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7. The Purpose and Ethos of HumbleDollar

• Jonathan’s nonprofit website, humbledollar.com, aims for holistic, civil, and thoughtful discussions about money—intentionally nonpartisan and inclusive of all experience levels.
• He continues to write about end-of-life as well as broader financial issues, balancing acceptance with optimism as he travels and enjoys time with family. [31:54]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Facing Mortality:
  "I get up every morning and I say to myself, what is it that I want to do today that's going to make this a good day? ... I plan to keep doing [the things I love] right up until the end because this is the source of happiness for me."
  —Jonathan Clements [09:49]

• On Money:
  "The money that I've saved will end up making my kids feel more financially secure, will ensure that Elaine has a comfortable retirement—that's going to give me more happiness than... rushing off to the shopping mall..."
  —Jonathan Clements [14:19]

• Organization:
  "It used to be that after somebody died, they just watch the mail for a couple months and they'd figure out what the person had. Now nothing arrives in the mail... you need a list so that they know what there is because otherwise stuff is going to fall by the wayside."
  —Jonathan Clements [23:45]

• Acceptance & Hope:
  "I'm torn between acceptance of what's happening to me and the excitement that these trips and the future promise, and one undermines the other."
  —Jonathan Clements [31:54]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |:----------:|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:00 | Clark introduces the tribute and shares context for the interview | | 04:27 | Jonathan's personal and professional background, attitude about death | | 09:45 | Discussion of loved ones' fear, wisdom from facing mortality | | 12:40 | Jonathan's investment and savings philosophy, happiness and money’s true role | | 19:07 | End-of-life financial housekeeping—what he overlooked as a finance expert | | 22:16 | The family conversation: teaching loved ones, repetition needed | | 23:45 | The perils of digital-only records, importance of documentation for heirs | | 26:15 | Practical organizing: fireproof box, shared access, advice on digital security, joint accounts| | 27:53 | The importance of decluttering, not burdening heirs with “junk” or personal secrets | | 30:44 | Jonathan’s wishes for his final resting place, simplicity in memorializing | | 31:54 | HumbleDollar’s mission, his perspective on mortality, traveling while able | | 34:29 | Clark’s closing tribute and appreciation of Jonathan’s continued teaching |

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Tone and Atmosphere

• Candid, warm, and matter-of-fact, with frank humor: Both men speak openly about uncomfortable topics. Jonathan’s practical, unsentimental approach to death and money is counterbalanced by warmth, reflection, and flashes of humor.
• Inspirational and deeply human: The conversation offers actionable financial wisdom while underscoring the humanity beneath the numbers.

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Final Thoughts

Clark Howard closes by emphasizing Jonathan’s enormous legacy: a lifetime spent “empowering people,” demystifying finance, and—right through the end—offering lessons in both money and living. This episode is not only a technical guide for end-of-life planning but also a moving reminder to savor everyday joys and leave a clear, caring legacy for those we love.

Transcript

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[B]

I'm so glad to have an opportunity to present you a special edition of the Clark Howard Show. A year ago, a friend of mine was diagnosed with cancer. His name, Jonathan Clements. And Jonathan was an unusual man. I'm saying was because he has just passed away from cancer. And through his year plus from his diagnosis that was certain terminal form of cancer, he stayed upbeat pretty much to the end and never stopped teaching. So Jonathan and I, almost a year ago to the day, did an interview about the journey of his life and why his philosophies about investing only got stronger over time and the lessons he had to teach you and me about money. And I thought, you know what, what Jonathan said a year ago is so important, he would love it that beyond the grave, his words are still there being shared with you and to inspire you. So right now we're going to rerun as a special edition of our podcast and YouTube show, we're going to rerun that interview I did with Jonathan Clements a year ago. So without further ado, here is that interview. Today I have a unique privilege to have as a guest on this special edition of the Clark Howard show, the great, the one, the only Jonathan Clements, who is the premier personal finance writer, I mean really ever, in the United States. And Jonathan has had this special gift where he's been able to teach his fellow Americans about everyday money and complicated investment decisions in plain, simple English, the complete opposite of how the financial sector works. But this is a special visit with Jonathan because Jonathan got an ugly, ugly bit of news earlier this year. Diagnosed with terminal, essentially untreatable lung cancer that was genetic, not from being a lifelong smoker or anything like that, and has so many lessons that he wants to share with you about how you build financial security and how you deal with something we never like to talk about and that's facing our ultimate demise. But we all are going to someday, unfortunately, pass away. And are we leaving a mess behind for the people we love, or are we leaving things clean? So with that preamble, it's so wonderful now to be joined by Jonathan Clements. And as a fellow American, you should explain first why you have this pseudo English accent.

[A]

So, Clark, I was born in London, but my parents moved here when I was relatively young. But then I was dispatched back to boarding school in England where they beat the American accent out of me. That's what nine years at a British boarding school will do to you. I've been back in the United States since 1986, and slowly but surely the American accent has crept back in such that when I do go to the UK these days, they actually think I'm American. And I'm, I'm more than happy to be thought of as Americans, seen as there's something about the Brits that, yeah, I'm not that crazy about at this point in my life. In terms of my career and my diagnosis. Thirty years ago in 1994, I became the Wall Street Journal's personal finance columnist and I became famous or infamous or renowned for relentlessly advocating for indexing. I was known as the guy at the Wall Street Journal who just couldn't stop pounding the table for index funds. Here I am three decades later, and suddenly, at the end of my career, I've become renowned for dying. It's a very strange twist, but that is where I am. I was diagnosed with stage four lung cancer back at the end of May, and I've been writing about my diagnosis and some of the implications, financial and otherwise, ever since. And to my surprise, this has really caught people's attention. I've had a surprising amount of media attention. The New York Times wrote me up, the Washington Post asked me to write an article for them, and so on. And it really makes me scratch my head like, you know, everybody dies. And yet somehow being open about the fact that you are facing your own mortality seems to caught people's attention and created a lot of, lot of interest and a lot of curiosity.

[B]

I mean, extreme, because you talk about it like, yeah, I'm, I'm going to the market and I'm going to pick up some milk and some eggs. I mean, you talk about it with such a matter of fact nature, where most humans just can't really, even if they know somebody's dying. Or they themselves are dying. They just can't utter the words. They'll say things like if something happens to you or if something happens to me, I don't know what happens to me or happens to you means it's just something that is. It's so difficult for us as people to discuss. And you talk about it like, yeah, so I'm dying, so this is what's happening. And I think that is what has created so much interest because you face so openly what so many of us dread discussing and fear happening. And you're like, yeah, so I got unlucky. I got this bad set of jeans and I'm not going to be with you anymore.

[A]

So let me ask you a question, Clark, before I pick up on what you're saying, which is why is it you think that people don't talk about it? Why is it that, you know, they would rather talk about something else? Is it, is it denial about of death? Is it shame? What do you think it is?

[B]

Fear. Complete and total fear. I think that it is normal. I have always, I identify so much with what you're doing because I've always been pretty matter of fact about this and it freaks my wife and my family out. And my wife says, oh, there you go again, talking about when you're dead. And so I have always just looked at it as something, you know, I prepare for it. My wife is 15 years younger than I am and in her family, women in particular live to a hundred years older. Older. I know she's going to have a long time without me. So I've always thought about making financial decisions based on making sure she's okay when I'm not, when I'm gone. And so, you know, when I first heard from a mutual friend of ours about your cancer diagnosis and he was falling apart, to tell you the truth, he was just, just so upset. And I said, you know, this is going to happen to all of us. And he didn't appreciate that I was talking about that way. But I think, I think it's really important because you are laying out in simple terms, you know, I should have done this, I should have done that, I did this. Well, all that and just laying it out for other people and having them look at something they don't look at. That's what I think it is that that has struck such a chord. Particularly you talked about, you know, the Post and the Times Times doing a profile on you. The Post when you write because to people who work in your space, you know, writing about personal finance they're like, gosh, this is the best communication I've ever seen about taking care of yourself, your family, and their financial needs. So you ask me why. I think that's why.

[A]

So, coming to the. What you're saying about your wife, I've had the same issue with my wife, Elaine, which is she doesn't like talking about all of this. And as I've come to appreciate, you know, if you're the one that's dying, in some sense, you have the better half of the bargain because you're not going to be the one who is left behind. And, you know, for my kids and for Elaine, you know, the notion that there is going to be a life beyond me and they are going to be alone and they're going to have to grapple with the world on their own is indeed scary. Whereas, you know, I only get one half of that bargain. I get the pot up until I die. So, as I say, in some sense, it is the better part of the bargain. Added to that is, you know, I don't want to spend whatever remaining months I have in despair. I don't want to spend it being angry at my diagnosis. You know, I want to make the best of every day that I have. And I'm not going to have great days if I sit around and consumed with denial or with anger or with shame or with any of these other emotions. I get up every morning and I say to myself, what is it that I want to do today that's going to make this a good day? And actually, you know, what I discovered was I want to keep doing what I've been doing up until now. I love the work that I do. You know, I love hanging out with my wife, with my kids. I love, you know, exercising, going out in nature and so on. I love that first cup of coffee in the morning. You know, I love sitting down with Elaine at night and having a glass of wine. These are things that I've done my entire life and which I love doing and I plan to keep doing right up until the end because this. This is the source of happiness for me.

[B]

So you had planned for a life living to potentially 90 or 100, making sure you had your finances all around. And. And I am going to turn 70 next year, and I've never taken a Social Security check, and I'm waiting to the last possible minute to get the largest benefit. And anytime I talk about that, people get quite a. Quite a bit of feedback. People that are like, what are you doing? I mean, what happens if you Die a day after you turn 70. And you never took that money. You lost potentially eight years of receiving that money. And here you are, you've saved all these years with expecting a trend line to take you, a path taking you to 90 or 100, and you're going to make it into maybe, if you're, if you're lucky, into your mid-60s. You're 61 right now.

[A]

That's correct, yeah.

[B]

And so what do you say to people who say, you know, you did all this planning and, and you did all this, and you denied yourself all these things all these years and now you're not going to be able to have the fruits of any of that.

[A]

So, yeah, I was extremely frugal for most of my adult life. I mean, for 20 years, I lived in a house that was far less expensive and far smaller than I could afford. And that allowed me through those 20 years to save great gobs of money. I have a seven figure portfolio that will not pay for my retirement. It will pay for the retirement of my kids and my wife. That I am not going to enjoy that money. But I would say to you, Clark, you know, money buys happiness, but not in the way that people think. You know, you're not going to buy happiness at the shopping mall. How does money buy you happiness? Well, the number one way it buys you happiness is it gives you a sense of financial security. If you want to buy happiness, don't spend it. If you have the money, you'll have that sense of security that makes us happy, that gives us that sense of comfort that things are going to be okay in the future. So do I regret not spending much more in the past? No, not at all. Because I have this pool of money that makes me feel safe. On top of that, you know, I've long known that, you know, buying stuff for myself doesn't deliver nearly as much happiness as giving it to other people. So the fact that the money that I've saved will end up making my kids feel more financially secure will ensure that Elaine has a comfortable retirement that's going to give me much more happiness than having that money and rushing off to the shopping mall this afternoon. On top of that, when you think about what money can do for you, I think the two other things that I would emphasize is beyond giving you a sense of financial security, it can allow you to have special times with friends and family. One of the things that I did almost immediately after the diagnosis was to book a long weekend away with my kids and their families and with Elaine. We went away. And we had four special days together at an expensive resort. And yeah, it was expensive, not my normal frugality, but we all had a great time together. I think that's a great use of money. And the other thing that money can allow you to do is to spend your days doing what you love. And one of the reasons that I've been able to run the website that I do and write the books that I do and occasionally come on the Clark Howard show is because I managed to save a lot of money early on and I bought myself the freedom to spend my days as I wish. And that is, that is a great thing to have. You know, next time you go to the store or you look online at one of those shopping sites, think to yourself, okay, I could spend this money now, but wouldn't it be great if I save the money in 10 or 20 or 30 years down the road, I could choose to do anything I want during the day without reporting to a boss or anybody else. Isn't that so much better than the shoes you're about to buy?

[B]

How can I argue with that? And I mean, I think you're inspirational to people. Just hearing your attitude and everything you said about living on less than what you make. When we come back, I'd like to drill down to specifics. What are the things that you've discovered that, gosh, I thought, I mean, I, I've spent my career teaching personal finance. I thought I had it all together. And then when I got this diagnosis, I realized I should have done this, this, this, this and that. So let's talk about that straight ahead.

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[B]

Learn [e-mail] so, Jonathan Clements, I just can't thank you enough for continuing to serve people like you always have in a different way. Now, talking about all the things involved with end of life and, and your philosophies, the way you're thinking about things, absolutely no self pity. One of the things I, I really loved and one of the things you wrote is I don't need somebody to call me and tell me about what terrible things I have coming for me or how bad they feel for me. You know, you don't want a pity party at all. You, you want to use this time to continue to educate. And that is, that is really something. I mean, that is the ultimate in selflessness. So one of the things you alluded to in one of your articles on your website, humbledollar.com is that you realized when you got into the details of what you have to do end of life, that you thought you had it all buttoned up and you didn't.

[A]

It's absolutely true. You know, the, the cobbler has no shoes. I got back from the hospital and I started thinking, okay, I've got to make sure everything's in good shape for Elaine and for my kids. And I discovered that, you know, if I had keeled over, it would have been much more difficult for them to sort out my financial affairs than I had thought. Did I have a complete list of all the insurance policies? Did I have a list of my financial accounts? Was that all readily available for them? And the answer is no. And in the months since my diagnosis, I've done countless things to try to make things simpler for my heirs. For instance, I had four credit cards. I canceled two of them because I know it's much easier for me to cancel those credit cards than for them to do it after my death. Similarly, I made Elaine the joint owner on my various checking accounts so that, you know, when I go, they can immediately pass to her without going through probate or dealing with, you know, a lot of paperwork nonsense. I had a solo Roth 401k which had been funding for a number of years. I was like, I'm not going to fund this anymore. You know, I'm not, I'm not saving for the future anymore. So I rolled that into a Roth IRA so that, that was one less account that, you know, my executor would have to deal with after my death. I also got a new will. This is, this is really an admission clock. I didn't have a health care power of attorney or a durable power of attorney. I was like, I'll get that down the road. I've got that, got it in the, the months since my diagnosis.

[B]

Let me interrupt you there for one second on the, what you just said with the durable power of attorney for health care, the directives, all that, almost nobody ever does that or they, they go out of date. And what, what do you think that is? That you had not done one and that this is what you do for a living and almost nobody ever does those documents.

[A]

Maybe it's, maybe it's denial, maybe it's what you were talking about, fear of death. But you know, I always thought, well, there's still time to do that. You know, I'm only 61, I'm not going to die anytime soon. I don't have to worry about this stuff. You know, I've had a will for more than 30 years, but I, you know, I have the right beneficiaries on my retirement accounts and so on, but I just hadn't bothered with those documents. And yeah, it was wrong, but I do have them now and I would encourage people to do that. In fact, this is a, this is a tip that blew me away. You know, if you have kids who are 18 or older, which is the, the age of majority in a lot of states, if, say they go to college and they're in an accident and they end up in the hospital, you, you as the parent may not be able to get any information about them unless they have, you know, medical directives that say, yeah, release information to my mom and dad. So you may not think an 18 year old needs a healthcare power of attorney, but perhaps your kids do when they go off to college.

[B]

And I'm sorry, I interrupted you right in the middle of your train of thought of things that you realize you should have done.

[A]

So one of the things I did two days after I got my diagnosis and I got home from the hospital, I sat down with my two kids and with Elaine, and I told them about what they could expect. You know, I drew up a little one pager listing, you know, how much money each of them would get, what form it was in, and so on. And I imagine, because I'm a financial nerd, that this would be a very straightforward conversation. But if you're a financial nerd, you probably do not realize what other people don't understand. They don't understand what does it mean to go through probate or not go through probate. What's the difference between a traditional and Roth ira? All this stuff that is like, you know, living and breathing to me, you know, is gobbledygook to most people. So when you have that big family discussion, expect there to be another big family discussion two days later and two days after that, because a lot of what you talk about will not sink in and there will be a whole lot of questions. Don't imagine that you can sort it all out with one final conversation. I've had countless conversations with my kids and with Elaine, and in the weeks since I got my diagnosis, so I.

[B]

Hear a lot from people that, oh, well, I'm just going to have my wife call our financial guy or a phrase like that, and they leave no paper trail, really behind. Why is that something that freaks me out and I assume freaks you out.

[A]

So one of the problems with that approach, which may have been more effective 20 years ago, it doesn't work today because there is no paper trail. It used to be that after somebody died, they just watch the mail for a couple of months and they'd figure out what the person had. Now nothing arrives in the mail. You know, it's all arriving in your email inbox. You may know what you have, but it won't be easy for your heirs to track down precisely what you own. So, yeah, you know, all those utilities, all those financial accounts, all those credit cards, all those bank accounts, you need a list so that they know what there is because otherwise stuff is going to fall by the wayside. And, you know, next thing you know, you'll be scanning some list of lost property, you know, three decades from now and discover that that's where grandpa's, you know, Million Dollar Vanguard IRA is.

[B]

You know, I have, I had a very close friend who also died of a terminal illness. And when he got his diagnosis, I went out to see him and he showed me that for years he had a three ring binder with these plastic sheets in it and he would put with, with tabs. He had in it everything that his survivors would have to deal with and his widow would have to deal with. And that kind of thing is so rare. I mean, he's the only person I've ever known who, who organized things on an ongoing basis. And it goes back to what we started with, this idea that, you know, we're not going to live forever. And you don't get to choose because you used to be a bike rider. You got hit on, on your bike once, right? You had a bad fall more than once. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, you, you had. I had multiple accidents. Put me in the emergency room. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, you could have been taken out by one of those and what would have happened then? And so I've had this thing for a long time that people don't want to hear from me, which is have some kind of method and that your loved ones know about where you keep records going forward. So what he did with the analog way of doing it sounds so antiquated. How would you guide people to, to make sure that your survivors had that information if like they were out, you know, on a bike or jogging or something and they just instantly died? However.

[A]

So I have a little metal fireproof box and in it I have key documents, birth certificate, Social Security card. I have a list of all my accounts, not just financial accounts, but also utilities with the usernames and passwords. Did it for the, the different insurance policies I have. It's not a huge stack of information. I have my will in there as well. It's all in this one box. And my kids and Elaine all know where the box is. And that will be the key starting point. That will give them the list of all the utilities, all the financial accounts, all the bank accounts, all the insurance policies. And that should allow them to start to close out my financial life. One of the other things I've done in the last couple of months is to have Elaine, you know, added to all of those accounts so that they're joint accounts now so that, you know, she will have access. The other thing I've said to Elaine is don't, don't cancel my cell phone plan. You keep it alive for a little bit because in many cases, to get into these accounts, you need two factor authentication. And she gets rid of my cell phone, she won't have access to these accounts.

[B]

So anything else is, you have started thinking about you. You don't have a time, certain how long you're going to be with us on Earth? Are there other things that keep occurring to you people should be thinking about if they have aging relatives, whatever the circumstance that you're like, oh, I'm so prepared, but I didn't think of this, that or the other.

[A]

So there's also the negative aspect to this, which is anything that you don't throw out, your family is likely to think it is important. So, for instance, I had down in my basement no longer, but I did have tax returns going all the way back to 1986. There is no reason to have your tax returns going back all the way to 1986. Seven years is just fine. But I could imagine my kids in lane going down there and said, well, you know, he knew what he was doing. He kept all this information going back to 1986. Maybe this is important. Similarly, you know, if you keep your old copies of insurance policies, those declaration pages and so on, which I used to do, you know, they might think it's important. It's not. I would also say the same thing about any personal papers you have. You know, anything along those lines. If you keep it, they may think it's important. It may also have stuff about you that you really don't want your family to know. You know, if you want to make sure that, you know, you leave behind the memories that you want your kids to have, you know, go through those old love letters, you know, go through, you know, the stuff that's in those boxes in the basement. I don't know why I did this. I found this box down in the basement where I had Christmas cards from 1986. Why did I keep Christmas cards from 1986? It's absurd. So I've thrown out all of that. There's a lot of stuff like that that, you know, even though I've moved four times in the last 12 years and I thought that I had shed tons of stuff over the past dozen years, I still found stuff that's like, huh, why did I keep that? Why is that there? Why didn't I throw that out years ago? And trust me, you know, if you think it's a struggle to go back through those old letters and read what your grandfather wrote you 1987, you know, or your mother wrote to you while you were at college, if you find it a struggle to spend, you know, take the time to read those, your kids aren't going to want to look at that. So just get rid of it. I, through those four moves, have thrown out, you know, a ton of stuff. And I will say this to listeners. There is nothing that I have thrown away over the past dozen years that I have any regrets about. I don't sit here today and say, oh, I wish I didn't throw out that knickknack I bought in Paris in 1996. Nothing like that. You know, everything I've thrown away, I've been happy it's gone, and I have not wished it back.

[B]

So I got a really tough thing I want to ask you, and that is have you made your plans or decided what you want to have happen at the time of your death? How are you handling that?

[A]

I told Elaine that my kids, I want to be cremated. And I know you're not a huge fan of Philadelphia park, but I've told them that they can take my ashes and they can dump them in the Schuylkill River. And the only thing that I've asked is outside our little row home, there is a, there's a tree with, you know, a place where I typically plant, you know, daffodils in the, in the fall. And then, you know, I plant in patients in the summer. And there's a bench that's, you know, opposite the tree. And I've said, if you want to get a stone and put my name on my dates on it, and you can just put it in the middle of that little tree plot. And if you or the kids want to sit on the bench and, you know, talk to me after I'm gone, that'll be the place to do it.

[B]

I am just in awe of you and how you're handling all this. This is, this is really so important for people to hear and I appreciate it so much. And you write continually about your journey through this phase of your life and at the same time, you keep writing about important things with personal finance. Will you explain your non profit humble dollar and what's available to people?

[A]

There's so humble dollar is this website that I launched at year end 2016. It's been going for, you know, coming up on eight years. And it's essentially a, you know, a blogging website. I also have a forum where, you know, readers can post comments. What we're really trying to do is have a sort of a discussion about personal finance that is holistic. It's not just about which stocks are going up or down, which of course, nobody knows anyway. It's about people's broader financial life. And it, one of the things that I really emphasize is, you know, I'm not looking to have people scream and yell at each other, you know, on the site. I don't looking for people to express their political views. In fact, I ban people from the site if they start going off about, you know, everybody on the right is a looney tune or everybody on the left is a looney tune. You know, really trying to have a intelligent, thoughtful human discussion about money. Can I just bounce back to what you were saying about how I'm approaching this period of my life? I hang on the next blood test, the next abdomen scan, the next brain mri, and so far the news has been good. The indication is that I'm going to get more than the year I have been promised because I seem to be getting more than the year I was promised. We make travel plans, we just went to Ireland, we're going to go to Paris, we're going to go to London, we're going to take a cruise early next year we're planning to go back to Ireland. And with every trip, you know, of course I get excited about the future. Right? That's a. So I, I'm torn between acceptance of what's happening to me and the excitement that these trips and the future promise and one undermines the other and I'm really battling with that. I don't want to get too excited about the future because there isn't going to be much of one. I want to be in this position of acceptance and I do think that there will be this day when I go and my blood work doesn't look quite right or I go and I get a brain MRI and the lesions have started to spread on my brain again and I can't tell you how I will, I will cope with that. You know, I have some equanimity right now, but you know, that equanimity could get blown apart when I know that, you know, the end is going to be near. I, I, I've been trying to think through it and I'm just not sure how I'm going to handle it.

[B]

Well, Jonathan, I hope that you way out kick the coverage that you make it year after year after year and at the same time you were obviously expressing both things at once and optimism of outrunning the initial diagnosis and at the same time a realistic picture. And I, I think that's none of us know exactly how much time we have and I love the humanity that you just expressed and I want to thank you because as I said at the very beginning when you and I started talking on this podcast, you spent your career empowering people which is so important. To me teaching instead of saying, oh, this is way too complicated. You'd never be able to figure this out, so you need me. No. Instead, you've said, no. Here are the tools. You're fine. You can go do this for yourself. And that now, in this phase with a whole new perspective on life, you continue to educate. And I appreciate you so much and I appreciate what you're offering people so much. And I want to mention again, humbledollar.com is your website. It is a wonderful website, a wonderful read for people who are starting to learn about finance or are deep into it. You serve both, and I appreciate it very much. And it's great to see you again. And I hope you enjoy every one of those trips you're on. The most important thing, I hope you got a deal on them.

[A]

Well, Clark, I really appreciate the kind words. They do indeed mean a lot, especially coming from you. So thanks for having me on your show. It's always fun to talk to you.

[B]

Absolutely. You have a great day.

[A]

You too.

[B]

I hope that you were inspired by something you heard from Jonathan in this retrospective from that interview not long after he had been diagnosed with his terminal cancer. And I'm going to the funeral in a few weeks. And it's amazing how many people in money and finance were connected to Jonathan as friends. And we're all getting together in Philadelphia in November for memorial service. And even though everybody's experiences with Jonathan were different, one thing's the same. Jonathan was always this funny, goofy, intense, happy, go lucky guy from early in his life to pretty much his last breath, and I'm certainly gonna miss him.