12.15.25 Protect Your Retirement Accounts / Electronic Medical Records

Summary

The Clark Howard Podcast

Episode: 12.15.25 – Protect Your Retirement Accounts / Electronic Medical Records
Date: December 15, 2025
Host: Clark Howard
Co-host: Krista

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Episode Overview

This episode focuses on two major consumer issues:

1. The growing threat to retirement and brokerage accounts from electronic transfer scams (specifically, exploitation of the ACATS system).
2. The slow adoption and enormous benefits of electronic medical records.

Clark and Krista also tackle listener questions about account security, auto maintenance, appliance shopping, medical payment fees, mail privacy, and Amazon’s pricing tactics, providing practical advice for everyday financial and consumer hurdles.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Protecting Retirement & Brokerage Accounts from ACATS Scams

• Clark warns about a new scam targeting investment accounts via the ACATS (Automated Customer Account Transfer Service) system.
• Criminals exploit weak security around ACATS to transfer all funds out of victims’ investment or retirement accounts—even if those accounts are supposed to be secure (00:28–07:50).
• Once money is stolen, “it’s unbelievably difficult, if not impossible, to get your own money back.” (Clark, 01:55)
• Simple Security Steps:
  • Set a “lock” on your account to prevent unauthorized ACAT transfers.
  • Fidelity: Online security lock is easy, prevents the scam completely.

    “With Fidelity, if you set up that simple click...the criminal cannot steal the money. Period. Simple.” (Clark, 05:41)

  • Schwab & Vanguard: Requires a phone call to set up a similar transfer lock.
  • Always have a SIM lock with your wireless provider to prevent criminals from hijacking your phone number for two-factor authentication.

Notable Quote

“This has become a crime that is almost without prosecution because the criminals move that money so fast. And they are off with the wind.”
—Clark Howard, (06:41)

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2. Listener Q&A Highlights

A. Bank Security for Peer-to-Peer Apps (Venmo/Cash App)

• Best practice: Use a separate bank for P2P (peer-to-peer) transactions to shield your primary accounts.

  “You initiate the transfer of the funds...that you’re willing to lose if a criminal is able to tap in and steal using the Venmo or Cash app.”
  —Clark Howard, (09:04)

• Link a minimal-balance online bank to Venmo or Cash App, keep the rest of your funds protected at your main bank.
• “It only takes one [crook] to create a real problem for you.” (Clark, 10:18)

B. Are Tire Alignments a Scam? (11:09–13:32)

• Alignments aren’t a scam but are oversold by shops.
• Only necessary if you see uneven tire wear.

  “You don’t need an alignment every time you buy tires. A lot of shops will tell you you need one every time...To me, it’s a react, not an act.”
  —Clark Howard, (13:01)

C. Are Appliances at Big Box Stores Lower Quality? (13:32–16:58)

• Could be possible, but Clark isn’t certain.
• Advises using Consumer Reports to cross-check model numbers and ratings—regardless of retailer.

  “The model number is the model number, right?”
  —Krista, (15:52)

• High prices don’t always mean more reliability. (Alanis Morissette joke included)

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3. Electronic Medical Records: Why Don’t Consumers Use Them?

(19:12–23:06)

• The US medical field still uses outdated tools like fax machines, but electronic medical record (EMR) systems are becoming more common—yet patients aren’t embracing them.
• Example: Wellstar’s system lets patients enter their history once, update as needed, yet only 10% use it; most still fill out clipboards each visit (21:16).

  “You have to...It’s like Groundhog Day every time. You gotta write it down again and again and again. And that’s insanity.”
  —Clark Howard, (21:37)

• EMRs can save lives in emergencies but also face hurdles (lack of interoperability, security risks).
• Never give your Social Security number on medical forms.

  “Never, never, not ever to list on any medical form at any time ever is your Social Security number.”
  —Clark Howard, (22:34)

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4. More Listener Q&As and Money-Saving Tips

A. Debit Card Surcharge at Medical Offices (23:06–24:38)

• It’s illegal for a merchant to charge a debit card fee if processed as a debit — cite the Durbin Amendment.
• Complain to state consumer protection office or, less effectively, the CFPB.

B. Should You Remove Your Address Before Discarding Junk Mail? (24:38–25:47)

• “You are more cautious than I am.” (Clark, 25:00)
• For real peace of mind, use a shredder.

C. Amazon’s Dynamic Pricing (25:47–28:33)

• Listener observed product prices climbing within minutes while prepping an order.
• Clark: Amazon’s “sophisticated dynamic demand pricing” can change prices rapidly, even during checkout.

  “I think Amazon is outsmarting itself...they could undermine trust in their customers.”
  —Clark Howard, (27:04)

• Use tools like CamelCamelCamel to spot true deals.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On financial paranoia:

  “This really gets into the realm of the paranoid, doesn’t it?” —Clark Howard, (07:46)

• Pop culture banter:

  “You want to sing an Alanis Morissette song now?” —Clark Howard, (16:28) “No, nobody wants to hear me sing.” —Krista, (16:34)

• On the medical clipboard:

  “A clipboard. I mean, I can’t write that anybody can read anyway.” —Clark Howard, (21:23)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |-----------|-------| | 00:28–07:50 | ACATS/retirement account scam explanation & how to protect yourself | | 08:21–10:35 | Protecting bank accounts linked to P2P apps | | 10:35–13:32 | Tire alignments: scam or real need? | | 13:32–16:58 | Are big box store appliances worse? Consumer Reports advice | | 19:12–23:06 | Electronic medical records: why more people need to use them; data security warning | | 23:06–24:38 | Illegal debit card surcharges at dental/medical offices | | 24:38–25:47 | Should you remove personal info from junk mail? | | 25:47–28:33 | Amazon’s dynamic pricing – real-world listener example |

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Tone & Style

Clark's hallmark is practical, actionable advice with a healthy dose of consumer skepticism and a bit of humor. He focuses on empowerment and self-defense in a world full of scams and shady practices—always encouraging listeners to check, verify, and act to protect themselves and their money.

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Conclusion

This episode arms listeners with urgent steps to clamp down on account fraud, makes the case for embracing digital health tools, and reminds consumers to be vigilant—whether at the tire shop, the appliance store, or shopping online. Clark’s bottom line: Take proactive measures now to save more, spend less, and avoid getting ripped off.

Transcript

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Clark Howard]

I'm so glad you're with us on the card show. Our mission is to serve you with advice that empowers you so you make better financial decisions in your life. This episode, I don't want to make you paranoid. I need to make sure you're prepared. There are crooks who figured out a way to steal money from your brokerage account or retirement account, and I need to tell you what you need to do because the law does not protect you like it should, like it does for money in a bank or a credit union. And later, I'm really excited about something that it seems the average consumer is not, and that is medicine going to electronic medical records instead of the clipboard, which I despise at doctor's offices. I'm going to talk about that later. Right now I need to talk about something that has been covered recently. And there have been, there was. There have been a couple of stories, and there seem to be some copycat stories about a cats. Acats, sometimes referred to as acat, is a transfer system in the brokerage industry that allows money for you to move from one brokerage to another, all electronically. And ACATS has such poor security attached to it that criminals are using it to loot your account at a brokerage, or again, your investment account, or your retirement money. And then once that money has been stolen, it's unbelievably difficult, if not impossible, to get your own money back. I'm going to tell you in the simplest terms how this works. You know, criminals know so much about us from all these various data breaches. And so what a criminal will do is they will open up a brokerage account which owns a shell account. They'll open an account with no money in it. It could be a retirement account, a brokerage account, because you're given a certain amount of time to transfer assets in. So they'll go online, they'll open an account as if they're you, they'll know the challenge questions, they'll have your Social Security number. They know all that. And then, however criminals know, they know you have an account somewhere else that they're trying to steal. And so they set up the shell account, they initiate what in the industry is known as an academic transfer and then electronically zoom all the money in your brokerage account or retirement account somewhere else, goes over to the new place with the account that's not yours but appears to be yours. And then the criminal runs away with the money and all that money you've worked hard to invest over the years or build for retirement over the years, poof. Now depending on the brokerage, they may have locks that you can put in place. Remember how I've talked about the SEM locks where you set up a thing with your cell phone carrier so a criminal can't steal your phone number so that they've got the two factor authentications coming to them instead of to you. Often these will work together. So that's why you want to have a lock on your SIM, your cell phone. We explain [e-mail] and you want to set up a lock with your brokerage. Now my big three favorite children, Schwab, Fidelity and Vanguard all offer this. Fidelity does it better than the other two. Fidelity has something where you can go to your account security and you can set up a lock which prevents a criminal from doing this theft where they open a shell account somewhere else as if they're you sends through the transfer and the money's gone before you know it. With Fidelity, if you set up that simple click that lock on your account, the criminal cannot steal the money. Period. Simple. With Schwab and Vanguard, you have to contact them to set up a lock to prevent an ACAT or ACATS transfer, the customer no service person you talk to. Hopefully you get a customer service person at Schwab or Vanguard will know what you're talking about and will simply go in and add the lock to your account. So a criminal can't do an electronic theft of your money. Now as for the bank based brokerages, I don't know about them, I don't care about them, I don't want you to have money with them. I want you to have your money with a discount broker. And so if you're with them, you need to do the same thing. You need to sign into your account, see if there's an option for you to lock your account from transfer to another firm that you just click like Fidelity has or you need to call them and see if you can put in an ACAT's lock. A C A T S. Again, some firms will call it acat, some, some firms will call it a cats. But this is a to do list item because criminals morph, they figure out what's the weak link, where can they steal money? And this has become a crime that is almost without prosecution because the criminals move that money so fast. And there are off with the wind. Nobody's been able effectively to figure out how to stop this crime because the whole system was designed. Because I'll take you in the Wayback Machine. There used to be a big problem with brokerages illegally refusing to release your money, your account, to another brokerage when you wanted to move it there. And after a number of actions and arbitration, I don't know, in court, whatever, the industry developed the ACAT system to make it efficient and easy and to stop firms from holding onto your money. You didn't want them to have to move it. So now something that solved a problem for consumers, ACATS has now created a new problem for, for consumers, which is theft of their money. And that's why you need to have the lock in place that you then, if you do want to move to another firm, you simply remove the lock. This really gets into the realm of the paranoid, doesn't it?

[Krista]

Well, you know, I mean, even if there's like a Miller Miller chance, I don't know what you'd say, like a, like the tiniest fraction.

[Clark Howard]

Well, the movie, you say what, you're saying there's a chance.

[Krista]

Yeah. Dumb and dumber.

[Clark Howard]

Yeah. But the criminals, they don't even have to be that sharp to pull this crime off once they know the method of operation. And so this is one that will be on law enforcement's radar in about two years, but it's already happening to people right now.

[Krista]

All right, Judy in Kentucky has a question about account security. Clark, you've mentioned several times that to protect theft or fraud, we should have an account at a separate bank from our main bank for linking P2P apps like Venmo. My question is, what's the best, cheapest, and safest way to transfer money from my main bank? The account at the bank I want to protect to the linked account at the separate and new bank. Do you have to store the main bank account routing and account number in the app to be able to transfer funds? Right now I have two separate accounts at one bank in which I only replenish funds to my Venmo bank account when needed. And online transfers between accounts are simple, but in listening to you, I need to have the accounts at completely separate banks in order to have full protection.

[Clark Howard]

So, yes, you want to have. So let's say you're setting up for Venmo or Cash app. You set up an account. The easiest is one of the online banks and then you link it the online bank to your existing bank. But it's not an automatic transfer of funds. You initiate the transfer of funds. So you have to remember when you want to move money from your, let's call it your mothership bank to your Venmo Cash app bank where you'll do Venmo and Cash app transactions from you initiate the transfer of the funds. You think you're going to need the funds that you're willing to lose if a criminal is able to tap in and steal using the Venmo or Cash app. So as long as you're in control of the transfer from your existing bank to the online bank where you have the second account just for Venmo or Cash app, you're good and you're safe. And you know, I, I hate this. I mean, think about how terrible this is. I started off talking pretty long form about the problem of the ACAT transfer theft problem and now we're talking about people using Venmo or Cash app to steal your money and all that. And you'd start to think, my goodness, is everybody a crook out there? No. But it only takes one to create a real problem for you. And that's why we have to talk about the precautions you need to have in place.

[Krista]

Bob in Massachusetts says regarding Costco tires, I know that I've probably paid for alignments over the years that I didn't need, but I don't feel comfortable spending a grand on new tires and having them wear faster because of misalignment. One of the larger local shops includes the alignment with the road hazard warranty. I don't want to run to another tire shop to have it done. After getting the tires installed at Costco, I'm sure most tire shops will just say you need one to collect on their time. But I have trust issues with most car repair shops. Are alignments a form of a scam? And what's your advice on this?

[Clark Howard]

Having real alignment done is not a scam, but it is oversold. If you look at any tire shop or pretty much any repair shop that does alignments, they're all going to tell you this is something you have got to do. The reality is if you have uneven wear on your tires, you'll know that you need an alignment. Your tires talk to you by how often do you look at your tires?

[Krista]

Never.

[Clark Howard]

Yeah, it's funny because I just went through this with My son Grant, who had uneven tire, where I said, grant, you need to go have an alignment. And he wasn't really familiar with that, but that's what he had to do because he had such bad uneven tire wear. And that's when you really need to do it. Most people never ever look at their tires. I, I guess it's part of my personality. I do look at my tires and it's something that you should do. And if you see clear signs of uneven wear, get an alignment done. Does that mean that there's a problem with buying tires at Costco? No, because I actually had at Costco, at the tire center, person say, you know, you've got uneven wear on your tires, you need to go have an alignment. And so, I mean, I was told at the tire center they don't do that. I don't think Costco.

[Krista]

Well, that's what I think. That's what Bob's saying is like, why would I buy tires, tires at Costco?

[Clark Howard]

Oh, because they're a better deal at Costco. I mean that.

[Krista]

And then you just pay another shop for an alignment.

[Clark Howard]

For an alignment if you need one. You don't see, it's not automatic. You don't need an alignment every time you buy tires. But a lot of, a lot of shops will tell you you need one every time you buy tires. To me, it's a react, not an act. And I look forward to the Clark stinks posts from people who say, clark, stick to what you do for a living. Do not tell people how to repair or not repair their cars.

[Krista]

All right?

[Clark Howard]

And they'll probably be right.

[Krista]

Michael in Florida says, I was reading your plant, your article, the number one appliance brand for customer satisfaction. I heard once that when you buy appliances from big box stores, those appliances are made cheaper intentionally compared to buying directly from a dealer. The appliances people buy on price, basically because of price, from big box stores. They buy on price instead of quality.

[Clark Howard]

Okay, so, Michael, I'm not smart enough to answer. Are the big box stores receiving inferior merchandise from the manufacturers? They're being given versions, refrigerators, washers, dryers, dishwashers that are inferior. Is there any doubt that people buy on price? No doubt at all. Particularly when people are buying something that they don't get up in the morning and say, I'm so excited I'm getting that new dishwasher. They're not. So it is possible, and I don't know that you're right, that the big boxes may be selling cheaper versions, not just cheaper in price, but Possibly not made as well as ones that are being sold by more boutique appliance shops. So how do I decide Consumer Reports? Something that people don't refer to or use like they used to. But Consumer Reports is so valuable because of the testing they do. And nobody can buy off Consumer Reports. It's wholly supported by donations and by subscriptions.

[Krista]

They also use, they do use affiliate links, but they say they do it in a clean way, so.

[Clark Howard]

But they're not.

[Krista]

Their testing is agnostic.

[Clark Howard]

Testing is completely in the lab. And if you go by what they say on reliability and the recommended appliances, it's done from the head and the heart and it's going to get you a quality item, whether you buy it from a big box or you buy it from a boutique family owned kind of appliance center.

[Krista]

Yeah, because the model number is the model number, right?

[Clark Howard]

That's right. So it's possible that you would find that Consumer Reports loves a blah, blah, blah brand dishwasher, particular model number. And you look at the big boxes and none of them are selling that particular model number. I mean, if you found that, that would be your answer, that you need to buy that at a family owned boutique kind of appliance place.

[Krista]

I mean, the irony, I don't know.

[Clark Howard]

If you'd find that pattern.

[Krista]

Isn't it ironic, though, that some of the most expensive appliances, like the super, super fancy ones, are traditionally quite unreliable?

[Clark Howard]

Yeah, that is ironic. Yeah. You want to sing an Alanis Morissette song now?

[Krista]

No, nobody wants to hear me sing. Anyway, reference. Little pop culture for you.

[Clark Howard]

Yeah, but that's pop culture 20 years ago.

[Krista]

That's okay.

[Clark Howard]

Yeah, so that could happen. But you do it by doing the cross reference. And so I'm not a shill for Consumer Reports, but I love what they do, even though they don't seem to like me so much. But that's okay.

[Krista]

Yes, they do.

[Clark Howard]

You think so?

[Krista]

Yes.

[Clark Howard]

All right, coming straight ahead, we're going to talk about a change in medicine that is so overdue and consumers and patients are not responding to it like I would have hoped. I'm going to tell you what it is.

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[Clark Howard]

So isn't it weird that one industry in the United States still uses fax machines? This isn't a joke. Do you know the medical industry still does some stuff by fax? I remember when faxes were a big deal 40 years ago. Medicine has been very slow to change the back office, but things are moving forward. In the past I've talked about my chart and what progress that has brought. And a lot of people aren't aware that the push to go to electronics in medicine started in California with the big HMO Kaiser Permanente. That for them there was such an advantage that if a patient or customer came in that the doctor on duty, if they were going after hours, could see that patient's full medical history.

[Commercial Announcer]

Bam.

[Clark Howard]

Just like that, right on a computer at the time. That was revolutionary. A lot of medicine is still revolutionary, but patients also have been part of the problem. I saw a story that shocked me. It was an Axios piece that one of the big regional hospital brands, wellstar, has an electronic system where patients can check in, load their medical history one time, can update it as they're in any of their systems, facilities and only 10% of patients are using it. They're going to one of their offices or one of their hospitals, and they're still filling out a clipboard. A clipboard. I mean, I can't write that. Anybody can read anyway. And then I'm given a clipboard and I got to write my medical history. You have to. It's like Groundhog Day every time. You got to write it down again and again and again. And that's insanity. If you're given an opportunity at wherever you go for medicine to use one of these electronic systems, use them because you build that medical history, and minutes can matter when, let's say, you're not conscious at the point that you have a medical emergency and somebody can see your medical history. The value of those electronic records is fantastic. And we're still in a Tower of Babel thing right now where one system doesn't properly talk to another, doesn't talk to another. Will eventually get there. And yeah, I've talked about how medical stuff is responsible for roughly half of data breaches in the United States because medicine's never been good at handling medical records with good security. But the electronic systems offer some hope with that. One thing. Never, never, not ever to list on any medical form at any time ever is your Social Security number. They're all asking for it. Never give it. Never give it a doctor's office, never anywhere with medicine, because again, they're the keystone cops with the data breaches. And you're handing key information to a criminal on a silver platter when you fill out that Social Security number. But filling out the electronic forms, the medical records, doing the pre check in is an advantage to you, not a disadvantage. Krista.

[Krista]

All right, our first question is from Thomas in Pennsylvania. My new dentist charged me a fee for using my HSA debit card. Federal law says it's illegal to charge a debit card fee, but okay for a credit card, the dentist office manager said the money goes to the company that they hired and they say it's legal. Am I wrong? And who do I file complaint with if I am correct?

[Clark Howard]

It's a great question who you file a complaint with, because you are right. I think it's called the Durbin Amendment. It's illegal to charge a fee for using a debit card if it's cleared as a debit. You know how a lot of times you're pushed to clear a debit card as a credit card so that the bank can make fees on it, but if you are presenting a debit card being Used as a debit card. It is against the law to charge a fee. So who's enforcing it? The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is a little bit at the walking dead right now. That's normally who you'd complain to. You're in Pennsylvania. If your state has a consumer protection office, which most states do, but not all, you would contact them. And the back office people, the dentist, are just doing what they're told by whoever they've contracted with, but they're not allowed to charge a fee on that debit card.

[Krista]

Pennsylvania does have a bureau of Consumer Protection.

[Clark Howard]

Very good, Krista. Thank you.

[Krista]

No problem. All right. Dan in California says Clark, I go through great pains to block out or tear off the section with my name and address on junk mail before putting it into the recycle bin. If I let my junk mail build up, this process can take me up to a half hour in one sitting. Am I just spinning my wheels? Does it matter if my name and address is out there on envelopes and non sensitive mail?

[Clark Howard]

You are more cautious than I am.

[Krista]

I never thought about that.

[Clark Howard]

I just recycle all the junk mail that shows up when.

[Krista]

If I get a credit card offer or something, I don't recycle it.

[Clark Howard]

So I got to tell you, on Saturday, I got a lot of mail in the box and every item turned out to be junk mail. There was no. There was no mail I actually needed and I just threw it right in the recycling bin. But if you're that worried about what might happen, this would be the time for you to spend a little money on a shredder. Instead of taking all that time out of your day to rip those off, you just shred all your junk mail and then you're not going to have to worry about it.

[Krista]

All right. AJ In California says I was ordering disposable gloves from Amazon because years after getting great ones at Costco for a great price, about four to six months ago, they switched to an inferior product. The price was $17.80 per box. I know. I saw that price because I have a Costco price. This is Amazon.

[Clark Howard]

Amazon.

[Krista]

Costco is just an aside like. Okay, okay, so on Amazon, the price was $17.80 per box. I know. I saw it because the history. I have the history in my phone calculator and I use that price. Then you know how if you leave an item in your cart or in saved for later that the. If the price changes, Amazon will notify you of the price change. While I was working on my order and finding a second Seller of a similar product. I got a notification that the price changed from 1785 to $18.

[Clark Howard]

This is while doing this on the computer, right? So just minutes.

[Krista]

I took a screenshot. The from price is already higher than it was five to 10 minutes ago. As I researched the other product. Then as I completed my order and looked everything over and at the second product and then went to the first one. The first had changed to 1805. Overall, I spent maybe 15 to 20 minutes on this, but not hours or days later. Isn't this crazy? Thankfully it was only 25 cents more.

[Clark Howard]

Okay, so as we covered just on a podcast was that two weeks ago, Amazon prices move all the time. And I'm just going to give the brief brief on this. The prime day items overwhelmingly were not at the lowest prices. They had been historical average. Amazon acts like prime days when you're going to save all this money. Amazon uses such sophisticated dynamic demand pricing that the prices just move constantly. You gave a great example. Not a big price difference, but that the price moved twice in 20 minutes. And so that's what's hard with Amazon. I think that Amazon is outsmarting itself. I think that they're overusing the capabilities they have to the point where they could undermine trust in their customers. Just my thought, Amazon, it's your company, you do with it whatever you want. But my goodness, do we have sharp listeners and viewers that AJ took these pictures, validated the price changes in 15 or 20 minutes, changing twice, unfortunately going up both times.

[Krista]

Imagine if they did that. It's only 25 cents in this case, but then multiply that by how many people this might be happening to.

[Clark Howard]

And the irony with Amazon, they don't really make any money as a retailer. They make virtually all their money from Amazon web services. And that's why Amazon is priced as a technology stock, not as a retail stock. I appreciate you pointing out yet again that you got to be really mindful if you care about price. You got to know you cannot trust that Amazon says something's a deal. You have to actually be doing your own work or using one of the tools I've talked about like Camel, Camel, Camel or the others that will show you the historical price movements on Amazon. Thank you for that and thank you for tuning in to our podcast and YouTube show today. I hope something today was useful and helpful to you and that you take the opportunity to avail yourself of all the different ways we provide advice and information to you on social media, on YouTube, with our YouTube shorts, with our websites. Clark.com and clarkdeals.com the stuff I do if you're in a market that I'm on TV and radio and the idea is to serve you every possible way so that you're empowered with knowledge that you can act on to save more, spend less and avoid getting ripped off. And we'll see you on Wednesday.

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