12.17.25 Household $ Saving Tips / Housing: Buying Vs Renting

Summary

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The Clark Howard Podcast: 12.17.25 – Household $ Saving Tips / Housing: Buying Vs Renting

Date: December 17, 2025
Host: Clark Howard
Episode Theme:
Clark Howard and Team Clark dive deep into creative household money-saving tips from listeners and address the long-debated financial quandary: is it better to rent or buy a home in today’s market? The episode brings practical, real-world advice based on current economic challenges, while fielding nuanced questions from the Clark audience about major consumer and housing decisions.

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Episode Overview

Clark Howard brings his signature practical, positive approach to personal finance, focusing on:

• Extreme (and practical) household savings strategies sourced from his audience, showcasing the breadth of "Clarkie" frugality.
• A deep dive into the pros and cons of renting versus buying a home in 2025's evolving real estate landscape.
• Listener questions around travel savings, insurance, and making tough decisions in American homeownership.

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1. Listener Money-Saving Tips: How Far is Too Far?

[01:11–08:02]

Main Points:

• Clark and his co-host share inventive savings hacks from audience members, inspired by tightening household budgets and rising costs.
• A Wall Street Journal article highlighting product dilution trends (laundry detergents, soaps) prompts Clark to share his own experiments with stretching household products further.
• The show reads a wide variety of audience-submitted saving tips, covering everything from reusing everyday items to outsmarting high prices at restaurants.

Notable Quotes:

• “People are taking various liquid products and diluting them to make them stretch further ... I’m now tearing the dryer sheets in half.”
  — Clark Howard [02:23]

• “Do we have the greatest listeners and viewers? ... Our listeners and viewers are cheaper than I am.”
  — Clark Howard [06:20]

Audience Tips Highlighted:

• Angela: “I use my drying rack for all my clothes and bedding.”
• Jill: “I’ve been making my own laundry detergent and using white vinegar as my fabric softener since the 80s.”
• Bruce: “Reusing placards, floss – they wash off fine and work for several future uses.”
• Rachel in Texas: “Brew coffee at home and use double filters to reduce the coffee grounds needed.”
• Jackie in California: “Forage for fruit and berries on public land.”
• MK: “Wash and reuse Ziploc bags.”
• Joyce: “Bring my own soda to restaurants, saves almost $3 per drink.”
• John: “Keep gas water heater on vacation setting except right before showering.”
• Jed: “Reuse washing machine water to flush toilet and save shower water for morning coffee.”

Memorable Moment:
Co-host commits to turning these audience hacks into a follow-up article and encourages more submissions:
“Oh, we’ve got to put more of these in there. If you have more, we’ll put a link to the survey in the show notes.”
— Co-host [07:05–07:10]

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2. Q&A Lightning Round: Cruises, Rentals, and Your Financial Toolbox

[08:02–15:31]

Cruise Prices Post-Pandemic

[08:54–12:06]

• Clark explains how the cruise industry recovered post-COVID by dynamically raising prices, unbundling perks, and filling cabins amid soaring demand.
• “Cruise lines have become a profit machine like it’s never been ... Once you are comfortable with a particular cruise line, use the calendar as your friend—not by picking a date, but by picking the deal.”
  — Clark Howard [11:24]

Top Takeaway:

• Cruise deals can still be found if you remain flexible on travel dates and focus on less popular sailings.

Rental Car Insurance Trends

[12:06–12:53]

• Growing trend of rental car companies requiring proof of personal auto insurance at pickup.
• Clark’s tip: “I have a copy of my insurance card in my Google Photos for when I travel.”
  — Clark Howard [12:34]

Credit Card Medical Coverage Abroad

[12:53–13:29]

• Listener question about emergency medical coverage provided by credit cards during travel.
• Clark: “The Chase Sapphire Reserve is best known for reimbursing unexpected medical expenses—up to $2,500—if you pay the trip in full with that card.”
  — Clark Howard [13:22]

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3. Deep Dive – Should You Buy or Rent a Home Now?

[17:43–22:03]

Clark’s Framework for the Decision:

• Assess Local Market: “Depends on your local market … in a lot of markets now, rent is effectively half the cost of buying a home.”
  — Clark Howard [17:50]
• Time Horizon: Consider how long you’ll stay in the home or area.
• Financial Readiness: “Are you financially in a position to handle the mortgage, taxes, insurance, plus the hiddens?”
  — Clark Howard [21:00]
• Job Stability: Rent is safer if your employment situation is uncertain.
• Budget Discipline: If renting, “extra emphasis on budgeting for saving and investing” is key.

Memorable Stat:

• “The average age of a first-time homebuyer is now 40.”
  — Clark Howard [21:36]

Core Message:
If renting is much cheaper, use the savings to build your financial future. There’s nothing wrong with renting, despite old societal pressures to “buy.”

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4. Listener Housing Questions – Real-World Dilemmas

[22:03–27:25]

a) Upsizing in an Expensive Market

• Rob in Virginia: Family wants to upsize to a $900k–$1M home, stay in the school zone, and has a sizeable down payment, but is wary of high costs.
• Clark: “Seven years is a long time, but what’s it do to your overall financial picture? … What’s it going to do to your budget every month if you do have that much higher monthly payment?”
  — Clark Howard [23:14]

b) Overextending on a Home Purchase

• Perplexed in Pittsburgh: Bought a $475k house, now feeling squeezed. Considering selling at a loss and moving into one of their rentals.
• Clark: Advised to weigh lost rental income against reduced expenses and to “sit down and think through how much net we’d actually save.”
  — Clark Howard [25:15]

c) Building an ADU in Southern California

• Jay in California: Considering an accessory dwelling unit (ADU) for family or rental income, but worried about the investment.
• Clark: "Your home is worth $800,000 because the land it sits on ... ADUs pay off as long as the budget doesn’t get out of hand."
  — Clark Howard [27:25]
• ADUs can generate future rental income or flexibility for family, but cost discipline is crucial.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “People always say to me, ‘Clark, you’re so cheap’ … I take it as a compliment.”
  — Clark Howard [06:20]

• “If you’re renting, extra emphasis on budgeting for saving and investing … as important as buying food or paying utility bills.”
  — Clark Howard [21:50]

• “Densification” is changing residential zoning, making ADUs more common, especially in California.

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Segment Timestamps

• Money-Saving Audience Tips: [01:11–08:02]
• Cruises and Deal-Hunting Tips: [08:54–12:06]
• Rental Car Insurance Trends: [12:06–12:53]
• Credit Card Medical Benefits: [12:53–13:29]
• Renting vs. Buying Deep Dive: [17:43–22:03]
• Listener Housing Questions: [22:03–27:25]

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Overall Tone & Style

Clark’s tone throughout is accessible, upbeat, and a little self-deprecating, always focused on empowerment: “It’s all about what we do to help you save more, spend less, and avoid getting ripped off.”

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Useful Resources Mentioned

• More money-saving tips: Clark.com newsletter
• Submit your own tip or story: Survey link via show notes
• Real deals and shopping advice: ClarkDeals.com

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For listeners seeking practical tips or facing major financial decisions in housing, this episode delivers crowd-sourced wisdom, current market analysis, and the clarity Clark Howard is known for.

Transcript

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[Clark Howard]

It's my pleasure to welcome you here to the Clark Howard show, where our mission is to serve you with advice and information that empowers you to make better financial decisions in your life. We're starting out with something in today's episode, how far are you willing to go to save money? And we asked our Clarkey's to share their best tips, and I'm going to read some of them to you later. I want to talk about something that's not been as much fun lately. Home ownership. Is that still a dream you should have? Is that still something you should be going after? It's complicated because Americans are doing so much to try to save money right now. Okay, listen to this. All right? People are taking various liquid products and diluting them to make them stretch further. So I did that with, you know, we've got the liquid soap things in the bathroom. So I'm like, okay, I'm going to try that. So when the liquid soap thing got.

[Clark Howard Show Co-host or Producer]

Halfway down, did you tell Lane you were doing this?

[Clark Howard]

No.

[Clark Howard Show Co-host or Producer]

Oh, gosh.

[Clark Howard]

Well, I just, I read an item in the Wall Street Journal that people were diluting laundry detergent, they were diluting soap, and they were doing all these kind of things. I thought, well, maybe it would be just fine. So I'm now tearing the dryer sheets in half. You know, the things you throw in the dryer. Oh, yeah, we know what you're a member's mark. Yeah. So I'm, I'm tearing those in half, and nobody's complained after I do a load in the dryer that the things aren't Soft enough. So now I've just spilled the beans.

[Clark Howard Show Co-host or Producer]

Oh boy.

[Clark Howard]

But I'm tearing those in half. So I did it with the, with the liquid soap in the bathroom and nobody's noticed that either, that I diluted that. I mean there are all these kind of things you can do to save.

[Clark Howard Show Co-host or Producer]

Money and well, the Clarkeys are unbelievable with it.

[Clark Howard]

Well, you're going to read some of those.

[Clark Howard Show Co-host or Producer]

You want me to read those?

[Clark Howard]

Why don't you read them instead of me? Because people are tired of hearing my voice. But what made me think about this was there was a Wall Street Journal item that Procter and Gamble's complaining that their sales are dropping because people who are really brand loyal to Tide and stuff like that, they're diluting all the products to make them stretch further. And they seem to be happy with they're getting the clean clothes and the other stuff is working fine. So I mean, why not? So what are some things?

[Clark Howard Show Co-host or Producer]

One, Clarky uses their drying rack to dry all their clothes and bedding. Another one that's more than all two, that was Angela. Jill says she I've been making my own laundry detergent and using white vinegar as my fabric softener since the mid to late 80s. I cannot imagine how much money I've saved. Bruce says reusing placards, floss, they wash off fine and work for several future uses. Dave says use return address number 10 envelopes from junk mail. I use an address label to cover their address and write a new address on the label. Rachel in Texas says my favorite money saving habit cuts my coffee spending by almost 50%. Obviously the biggest tip is to brew coffee at home, but the expense can be cut further by simply using two filters. Doubling up slows the filtering so you only need about a tablespoon per cup for an 8 cup pot of coffee. I use 5 tablespoons for my perfect cup. And then, let's see. Jackie in California, I forage for fruit and berries from either wild or domestic plants growing in wild or public areas. MK says I wash Ziploc bags, dry them thoroughly and use them again. Joyce says I bring my own soda that I buy at Sam's by the case, usually a Coke Zero and a refill when I'm eating lunch out. Even if I'm doing fast food. That $3 only cost me 48 cents. $3 and then brings her own bag of chips. Big bag of chips. There were so many. John says I keep gas water heater at setting at Vac vacation except right before I take a shower. Jed says our water costs close to $10 a unit. 749 gallons. So I saved the water from the washing machine in 30 gallon plastic garbage cans and use a bucket of the used water to flush the toilet. I also save the shower water waiting for it to get warm in a clean water container and use that water to make my coffee in the morning. Mark says, My wife and I pick up trash on our daily walks. We often find discarded pieces of clothing, socks, hats, jackets, etc. On our normal route, instead of throwing these pieces into the trash, we recycle them into our wardrobe. After a very good washing, we pretty much never have to buy clothing, hats, socks, etc. Because we repurpose these items.

[Clark Howard]

Do we have just the greatest listeners and viewers? I mean, people always say to me, clark, you're so cheap. And they're not saying as a compliment. No, I take it as a compliment. Our listeners and viewers are cheaper than I am.

[Clark Howard Show Co-host or Producer]

I know Annie in Arizona says, use a tea bag twice. Also, rinse out and reuse plastic sandwich bags. We got that one. And three paper towels. Dry out wet ones and reuse them. And four, at restaurants, share an entree and have water for a drink or just get appetizers instead of entrees. See, Ryan says, I cut tubes, tubes and bottles in half to get every bit of toothpaste, lotion and sunscreen out of them. I mean, there are so many here. I love it. We'll definitely do a follow up article on Clark.

[Clark Howard]

Oh, can we do that?

[Clark Howard Show Co-host or Producer]

Oh, yeah. We've got to put more of these in there.

[Clark Howard]

And if you have, how can people add more to this?

[Clark Howard Show Co-host or Producer]

Oh, we'll put a link to the survey in the show notes. I got to read one more. Sharon. I saved the wrappers off of sticks of butter and use them when I need to grease a baking pan or muffin tins. Hardly ever have to use nonstick sprays and it's much healthier and doesn't add calories and the food never sticks. I never thought of that. Wow. Anyway, thank you all for your response. I'm waiting for more.

[Clark Howard]

Maybe, maybe we'll have a follow up episode on the podcast and YouTube show. Okay, thank you all for taking the time to post those. It's really great because it's all part of the team effort, you know, because you're giving others ideas how to save money. And I thought I was doing so well. Tearing the dryer sheet in half and it's like, I mean, that's pretty good kindergarten stuff. Let's talk real stuff.

[Clark Howard Show Co-host or Producer]

And Also, that originally was put in our daily newsletter, the clark.com daily newsletter, which has a lot of fun stats. We switch it up every day and we often have polls in there. And it's really great for us to hear how the Clarkies feel. So I hope you're signed up for the newsletter and if you're not, you can go to clark.comnewsletters. okay. Dan in Florida says, years ago I saw a special on CNBC that explained how cruise lines were barely making any money, that their profits often depended on how much passengers spent on alcohol and other onboard purchases. Have things changed since then? Recently I saw a Facebook post where someone mentioned paying $800 for a cruise that now costs 1200. How can there be such a big price jump? And what's the best way to find the lowest cruise cruise prices? It seems like the cruise lines have made changes and are now earning better profits. What have they done to improve their financial situation?

[Clark Howard]

So let's go back in the wayback machine to 2020. And Covid shut the cruise industry down for 17 months. I think it was no cruises at all. If you're a longtime listener viewer, you know that I went on the first cruise back in the United States in the summer of 21, was the first ship back and there were so few of us on the ship that it held thousands. There were only 400 passengers. And there were all these rules about spacing and all that. And the industry piled on debt like you can't believe, having all those ships they had to pay for for all those months. And the industry has become a profit machine like it's never been. Following the desperation of COVID Did the cruise industry change? Maybe some. The big change was passenger demand. Absolute passenger demand has been much higher post Covid and has continued till now and maybe in the future. Cruise lines tell analysts, Wall street analysts, that their future bookings looking into 26 and even in 1H27 are fantastic. So they're all dynamically pricing and so they're getting more for the cabins and cruises have unbundled some following Covid. A lot of things that were included in the cruise fair now have been unbundled. So you're having to pay for more things on the ships than you were before. The stocks have done absolutely great and generally for the cruise industry because they're in a very, very profitable cycle. Now to your question, if the prices have gone up, how do you get a deal? Every ship sailing for every company has price cycles that every cruise has its own economics. So you can look at a particular ship, try this out, you'll see what I'm talking about. And you can look, let's say you look at balcony cabins and you look at balcony cabins week by week by week. The price differences from the various weeks are gigantic. The more flexible you are, the more you can book a cruise based on not the calendar, but when the deal is, the better you're going to do. You can go look at cruise critic or various websites and they have lists of cruises that are special deals because a particular week or a particular sailing is not doing well. So they're offering better deals on it. Once you are comfortable with a particular cruise line and a class of their ships using the calendar as your friend, not by picking a date but by picking the deal because that particular time is better, that's how you're going to save the big bucks.

[Clark Howard Show Co-host or Producer]

Matthew in Maine says, I just want to further corroborate what a listener had said about budget asking for their personal auto insurance. Sixt asked me for mine as well in Fort Lauderdale in September.

[Clark Howard]

Yeah, so this is apparently an emerging pattern that you're going to be asked potentially your insurer and your policy number. And so that's something you have to be prepared for. And what I do is I have a copy of my insurance card in my Google Photos because when I'm traveling I don't have a physical insurance card with me but if I'm ever asked for it at a rental car counter, I've got that copy in my Google Photos.

[Clark Howard Show Co-host or Producer]

All right. And Chris in Texas says, I'm wondering what credit cards have the best medical coverage as part of their benefits. I never really considered this, but in our recent trip to Cancun my mom slipped and luckily she's okay. But the resort's on site. Medical staff charged US$450$80 for Tylenol and in order to get this we had to agree to the 200 US dollar medical consultation. I didn't have much choice since it was after 10pm and I just wanted her to have what she needed.

[Clark Howard]

I'm so sorry.

[Clark Howard Show Co-host or Producer]

Got me thinking if for future trips we have coverage through a credit card in case the cost is potentially more.

[Clark Howard]

So I'm so glad she's okay because that's first of all she's physically okay, but the rip off that a lot of people experience. We were talking about cruises just a second ago. Going to the infirmary on the cruise ship, going in another country, going to the medical provider that they have available to you at a resort, that kind of thing can be quite pricey. The credit card that's best known for paying for those medical expenses like you had the unexpecteds is the Chase Sapphire Reserve and I'm trying to remember. I think they pay up to $2,500, maybe the amount 2,000 2500 something in that range. If you paid for the resort in full using that card, then they will reimburse unexpected medical expenses on a trip. It is a rare travel benefit. There may be another credit card out there that does it. I'm not aware of one that pays for unexpected medical expenses when you're traveling like the Chase card does. Some of them will offer medevac help, that kind of thing, but the actual medical bills itself, that's the only one I know of. And if you know of a card that does provide payment for medical bills while you're traveling, please let us know that. Coming up next, I've had several people ask me individuals and couples should they they've wanted to buy a house and now they're nervous about buying one. Should you buy one right now? How do you decide if that's still part of the American dream? And what an unusual thing to be asked, but it's very much part of the conversation now. I'll tell you what I've told those individuals and couples straight ahead.

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Tis the season to cozy up with all your favorite holiday movies and shows.

[Clark Howard]

You coming where to?

[Progressive Insurance Advertiser]

The North Pole, of course, like a very Jonas Christmas movie and Home Alone on Disney plus.

[Clark Howard]

Did I burn down the joy? I don't think so.

[Progressive Insurance Advertiser]

Then snuggle up with the Polar Express and National Lampoon's Christmas vacation with Hulu on Disney plus. I think we're all in for a.

[Clark Howard]

Very big Christmas treat this season.

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[Clark Howard]

So what have I said to people who are nervous but thinking about buying the home Depends on your local market, how long you think you're going to stay in that market, and what the cost of prevailing rent is in the market. If you were, let's say to rent a home versus buy a home. I mean a lot of markets in the United States, I'm talking about markets. I'm talking about not just metro areas, but some of the big sprawls like Dallas or Houston, Atlanta, things like that are sprawled so far that that real estate is in submarkets rather than looking at a whole metro area in a lot of markets now, rent effectively is half the cost of buying a home, the cost of it per month. I mean, at half the cost, you defer buying a home. You then if you're disciplined financially, you've got a lot of money you can put aside for the future, for retirement, for saving for a down payment, saving for a kid's college education. I mean, there's a lot you can do right now with the market. So distorted because I talked recently on the podcast about how in so many markets there's a surplus of rentals and rents are much more negotiable than they've been. So the gap between buying a home and renting one may have even widened. So you got to know that market. So that's number one is knowing the market and being comfortable with what your cost per month is going to be versus what you're paying in rent. That's number one. Number two, know yourself if you're really settled where you are and you're going to stay a long time and the house will grow with whatever happens with your family size, then buying is viable as an option. But again, you got to consider the first thing, relative value, what you're having to pay per month in rent versus what you'd have to pay to buy. Then the third factor, think about your life, your budget, your expenses, your income. Do you have the room in what you earn to handle the cost of the mortgage, taxes, insurance, plus the hiddens, the other things you're going to have to pay when something breaks, something needs repairing, whatever. Are you financially in a position to handle that, to do that? And then the last factor that I've discussed with individuals and couples is how stable is your job right now? If your employer seems like it's a little rocky, then that pushes me towards you. Regardless of the other factors to rent versus buying. Because this is not a time to take lightly the decision of buying a home because of all the X factors I just talked about. And yeah, got a lot of publicity recently that the average age of a first time home buyer now is 40. 40. Now that's been common in New York, Boston, San Francisco, Seattle for a long time, but now market conditions have made that common in the country. Overall there's nothing wrong specifically with renting versus buying. The most important thing is that you build up money for your future and your present needs. And if you're renting, extra emphasis on budgeting for saving and investing and putting money aside for retirement as part of your life. Just like paying utility bills, buying food, anything else you need to budget for building that financial security?

[Clark Howard Show Co-host or Producer]

All right, I have some related questions for you that have to do with owning a home. Rob in Virginia says, my family of five is considering moving from our three bedroom townhome to a single family home in Northern Virginia for more space, more rooms, yard, privacy, place for the relatives to stay. However, we want to remain in the same school zone for the kids sake. Therefore there are limited options and most of the houses that have what we want are in the 900,000 to $1,000,000 range. We have a lot of equity since we purchased our townhome 13 years ago, so selling would give us a good sized down payment of about $400,000. We would stay in the new home for at least seven years until all of our kids graduate high school and possibly a few years beyond. With the high prices on homes as well as mortgage rates in this area, do you think this is a wise move financially? Or should we continue to make do and save for when we can move to a less expensive area? Considering our oldest should be off to college in two years. I'm a government employee and my wife is a schoolteacher. So we have somewhat stable finances minus the current government, well, the past government shutdown, no other debts except for one car payment at 0% interest.

[Clark Howard]

This is a personal choice. I cannot, I can't make this decision for you, but we can talk about the factors. So you mentioned that your house size is going to start shrinking, your family size under the roof is going to start shrinking in two years. So you got to think about what are your longer term goals. Seven years is a long time till the last kid has flown the nest. So seven years having more space. What does it do to your overall financial picture? If you buy that million dollar home, you're going to have a much higher monthly payment. Is that monthly payment going to put you in any financial risk? You've been so good as you laid out not having debt in your lives and would it be manageable if you are comfortable with it, you feel like the improvement in quality of life would be so good and you feel that you both are comfortable with that larger financial obligation every month. It would sure make the family a lot more comfortable living in a larger dwelling. But those are decisions you got to really go in with your eyes open. What's it going to do to your budget every month if you do have that much higher monthly payment?

[Clark Howard Show Co-host or Producer]

Perplexed in Pittsburgh says, what do you do when you bought more house than you can chew? We bought a $475,000 house in January and now the budget feels way too tight. We bring in $150,000 a year and we have a $900,000 net worth. I contribute 13% to a Roth 401K. We also have two residential rentals and both cars are paid off. Do we sell the house and cut our losses before we dig a deeper hole? I estimate we would lose about $25,000 total on the sale of the house. But we could move into one of the rentals.

[Clark Howard]

So this is not a clean decision. You move into one of the rentals, you're losing that rental income. 30 year mortgage, let's say it's 500,000. That would be at higher rates, would be 3,000 or so base. Before you consider taxes and insurance. I don't know what the rental is bringing in. If the rental is bringing in a decent amount of money per month, you're not going to save as much as as you might feel. But this is a question. You're uncomfortable clearly with the monthly hit from what you're paying on the mortgage, taxes and insurance and then the attendant expenses. If you would feel that you're lowering the voltage financially in your life by taking that rental and making it one of those two rentals and making them your personal residence and you'd be happy living in it, you can do that. And you just. You'd make back that 25 grand in not too long a period of time. But I want you to take the time to sit down and think through how much income are we producing from that rental? How much net would we actually save if we got rid of the Property, took the $25,000 loss, and then make that decision?

[Clark Howard Show Co-host or Producer]

Jay in California says, I live in Southern California and own a smaller, fully paid off house built in 1970 on a larger lot. The backyard could accommodate a detached adu, possibly a one or two bedroom unit. I'm considering building one for my aging parents, for my kids when they're older, just around the corner. It's hard to afford anything in the area or to rent out for extra income in retirement. Our property is currently valued at around $800,000. Insane. Because I think it's way overvalued and we're starting to feel the weight of property taxes. I understand that adding an ADU would increase our property tax bill or just save the money for retirement as it would be a hefty investment. From a financial perspective, do you think building the ADU would be worth it?

[Clark Howard]

If you can build an affordable ADU for people who aren't familiar, it's accessory dwelling units, like having a cottage on property you already have. Very, very popular in Southern California. Your home is worth 800,000 because the land it sits on, not the structure of the house. The intrinsic value of land in coastal California is so high. So you're getting the land essentially, basically for free. It's already an embedded cost, so ADUs pay off as long as the ADU budget doesn't end up crazy high. Depending on which community you live in in Southern California, you may be able to do one of the prefab ADUs. Depending on the rules in your community. Those can hold down the cost a lot and the value you're creating. First, being able to put aging parents in and then let's move the kids out of the picture for a second when it's no longer where your aging parents are going to be. What kind of rent can you earn per month on that ADU? It's amazing how profitable the ADUs can be. I also know that people in Southern California have been building an ADU moving into it themselves and making more money renting the original house as a way to create serious income in their lives. Now, in your case, you're not looking to move into the adu, but later in your life that may be appropriate. So ADUs have been a good financial decision in many cases, except when the cost of the ADU gets out of hand. As long as you do a really disciplined purchase of an adu, I think it would be a great investment and would be worth it. And we're going to have more and more. What's referred to as densification in residential neighborhoods is the price pressures in so many communities now is leading to a change in zoning rules allowing ADUs on people's property. And I know there's a lot of people who love this. There are others that just as much hate it. And so communities are feeling their way to it. But clearly in Southern California, it has been a viable partial solution to the affordability problem with housing. And I want to thank you so much for joining us today. Friday Clark stinks comes your way. If you've got something you are not happy with me about, you feel like I did something lame or just plain dumb, go to clark.com clarkstinks and let me know. And right now, see, you're in the know. We got some. So much for you for last minute Christmas [e-mail] Where are the real deals? Not the no deal deals. We're going to tell you so you're empowered so you efficiently spend whatever you're going to spend on people's Christmas wishes, including those for you. It's all about what we do to help you save more, spend less and avoid getting ripped off and have a great day.