A (3:30)

I'm great, man. We're in the building.

B (3:31)

I'll shake your hand, but I don't have Rudy.

A (3:34)

Right. I know.

B (3:37)

I'm grateful. I'm super grateful for the opportunity and the time that you've taken. It looks like we have a lot of mutual friends. I was literally just. I was reading Justin Prince's book.

A (3:48)

I saw you on the beach yesterday. I saw it. I was the one.

B (3:52)

Yeah, I know. I was compiling. I was trying to get my guest list. I was working so hard because I was at Anaheim at a conference there. Then I did another conference as well around there. So it's just. It's the grind, just the connections building the, you know, those business relationships as well. So I'm grateful you're here. And how you doing today, boss man?

A (4:12)

I'm doing amazing. I'm great to be here. Grateful to be here too. And I think that grind is one of the reasons why this is my first time meeting you. But I feel like I know you just from, you know, Tony and I researching on the way up. But at 31 years young, to be able to be doing the things that you're doing, bringing the impact that you are, I have nothing but respect, man. I'm so excited for this conversation.

B (4:38)

I love that. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. I mean, I was gonna say you're 32 as well. Cause black don't crack.

A (4:43)

So, like, I'm trying my best, man. I just cut my hair yesterday. My wife doesn't love it too much, but I'm trying to get used to it a little bit. But I think for 44, I think I'm.

B (4:55)

Oh, 44.

A (4:57)

44.

B (4:57)

You don't look a day 44. Right.

A (4:59)

Thank you, brother.

B (5:00)

No, no, you're looking Good, boss, you're looking good. I'm glad. We both did our thorough investigations and our research as well. I watched a few of your. So I'm sorry, I mean, I sent the. The request at like 3 o' clock in the morning because I was watching a few stuff. I'll try to make these questions a bit more personal. Try to make these questions rather than just like an automated thing, something that people can get the best out of as well. And one of the things I just love a lot is the fact that you are helping families gain wealth through investing as well. And I wanted one of my mentors. Always touched on the fact that it's best to connect with people that have done it and are currently doing it as well. And so that's, that's, that's why I was like one of those things that. So you, you starting us off. So the bars already said high for the rest of the guests. I hope they know that as well.

A (5:45)

That's how we bring it.

B (5:47)

So if you could run us back to your journey in 2012, right. You hit about rock bottom. What internal shifts happened from you to go from survival mode to building a current thriving empire?

A (6:01)

Yeah, that's a great question, man. Yeah. If I think back to 2012, it feels like it was so long ago on one hand, but on another hand feels like it was yesterday. So, you know, I grew up here in Los Angeles to a single mama. I grew up on welfare. My dad was in and out of prison. They say papa was a rolling stone. I had a whole other family that lived a couple blocks down the street from me, brothers and sisters. And so my mom had a very tumultuous upbringing here in the city. She lost both of her parents within a year and a half of one another. A few years later, her being the oldest girl of six or seven kids, she was in charge of looking over the younger kids. Her youngest brother was shot and killed here in the streets of Pasadena. And so she just had a lot of difficulties and didn't really know how to handle them. And so she turned to drugs and alcohol. So when I was born, I was born into that environment. I was born on welfare. In fact, I lived on welfare for two decades. But she still, to this day, did the best thing that she could do for us, which was just move me 13 miles east to a city to where we had a new beginning. And that's where I started to meet new friends. These friends were really in the athletics. I was not. I was what they call husky back in the day. I was carrying a little bit of weight on me, but I made a decision at an early age to that I wanted to get a football scholarship. And so I did all that. I went and played ball. I graduated from, from university, got a job at Johnson and Johnson, married a beautiful woman and we got pregnant right away after being married. So on the outside, kg, everything looked perfect. I mean, the white picket fence, we both had degrees. She's gorgeous. We're about to have my first son. But internally, I was dying. I was not ready to be a father. I was scared. I was never really taught how to be a man. My father was never there. And now I'm going to be responsible for this new human being that's going to grace us with his presence. And so I asked my wife to do something that probably no man should do. And I asked her to consider having an abortion. And she said no, by the grace of God. And I didn't know how to handle it. And so at that moment in 2010, I fell into a two year depression, really sitting in my room, rocking back and forth, trying to figure out what to do. I don't want to be here, but I don't want to leave. I don't want to create the same cycles that I had grown up with. But I also am not ready for this responsibility. What do I do? And I didn't know what to do. And so I sat there and did the best that I could with the depression that I had. Fast forward to 2012. You asked about is a friend challenged me to get healthier physically. I had always been an athlete. I was, you know, in college I was not too many people were faster than me. You know, I was used to being that dude, you know, the athletic dude. Now I wasn't. I put on about 40, 50 pounds sitting in that room, rocking back and forth. And so I went on a health journey and got myself healthier and from that things. It's funny because you say what a coincidence, but I'm not sure that it was a coincidence. You said that you came out here to go to a couple different conferences. Well, a friend had invited me to a conference.

B (10:01)

Which one was that one, if you don't mind me asking.

A (10:03)

This was a conference that was held out in Washington D.C. for people that were going to be involved in the health and wellness industry.

B (10:10)

Okay.

A (10:11)

Because I had just lost so much weight, people had started to take notice. And a friend of mine said, man, you would be a great health and wellness coach. Like you're already in sales. I worked for Johnson and Johnson at the time in pharmaceutical sales. And you could, you know, you could do this online is big right now. You know, you have a presence, you've had a transformation, you could probably go and make an impact and make an income. I was like, man, whatever. I'm just trying to get away from a failing marriage. And so I showed up in Washington D.C. saw a whole bunch of young cats like you, man, just dressed sharp, just like you are right now, clean shaven, looked like they had no worries, no stress in the world, looked like they had their families loved them. And I showed up a broken man. And so I got inspired that weekend by brothers like you, if I'm just being honest. And I started to say to myself, well, if they can do it and they can find freedom and happiness and success in their lives and then I can do it too. And I think what I'm going to do is I'm going to quit this six figure job and I'm going to go help people. I'm going to go chase freedom and find freedom for myself by helping other people find freedom in their lives. And so I went back home and I quit that job a month and a half later and I launched my business and healed my marriage and now we got four little kids. But the shift really came down to nobody was going to save me but me. And I had been waiting for a savior and I got really good. I built up a skill set and that skill set was blame. And I was really good at being a victim. And the shift that happened that weekend was if it's to be, it's going to be up to me. And from here on out, the blame was me. I was reaping what I had sown. And if I wanted to sow differently, I need to start planting different seeds. And it was massive personal responsibility. And that really started all of it. That was the shift that I needed to really start to launch a new life.

B (12:39)

No, I love that so much and I, I like the fact that you made that, that important decision. But when you spoke about like taking the victor role as well, that's one of my favorite phrases lately. Don't be a victim, be a victor. Because at the end of the day you are taking accountability for yourself as well. However, I, I loved the fact that you went, overcame the journey that you are facing. Obviously we know right now is is mental health month, especially with what's been happening and with the amount of suicides, especially coming across with men, you know, it's about, about three times the rate as Opposed to women as well. And if somebody out there is watching the episode and perhaps they may feel extremely overwhelmed.

A (13:28)

Sure.

B (13:29)

Extremely. Like lonely, in pain, entering the stage of depression, or currently in that right now, what advice would you give them? What's the first step you think they should do to try and like, make that step towards overcoming that. That feeling of depression?

A (13:46)

Well, I think if I'm speaking to them, I can tell you what really helped me.

B (13:50)

Okay.

A (13:50)

What really helped me was I think, first and foremost, putting myself in a different zip code. One of the things I say all the time, kg, is zip codes eat people, but they also make us as well. So what really helped me lift myself out of that situation was just being around more people who are positive. They were happy, they had goals that were set, they sort of had a vision for life. And I'm just telling you, a new environment and new community would not allow me to accept feeling the way that I felt. And so I would say change your environment first and foremost. Secondly is I would say get a North Star. For two years, I had no direction. I was directionless and not was I just directionless. I lacked hope. And a lot of that lack of hope came because I wasn't striving towards anything. I didn't feel like I had agency or. Or that I had freedom to change the situation. I felt like I was reactive. And so one thing that really helped me was to now set sort of a North Star. What am I doing and why am I doing it? So the very same thing that got me into a depressed state was the very same thing that lifted me out, which was my son. Now it became less about, man. I got this little kid that's here, my wife that is really setting me back and not allowing me to live the life that I felt like I want to live at the time. And now I took that same thing and I turned it upside down and I said, this is going to be the reason why I live. This is going to be the reason why I get up. This is going to be the reason that's going to motivate me to do things that most people are not going to be willing to do. And so now with this North Star, it wasn't so much about Jamil and making Jamil feel happy. It was about how can I create a life and a legacy for this little boy that I refused to allow him to feel the way that I felt growing up without a father. So now I had this North Star to really turn to. And then I think. And then I think Once you have purpose and hope mixed together and man, that makes for an unstoppable force. So the community getting around people, that's going to call you to a higher level, that's going to teach you the books to read, that's going to put their arms around you, that is going to. That's going to help keep you motivated, that is going to allow you to adopt and take hold of their dreams that they see in you until you can get to the place to where you can start to see it in yourself.

B (16:38)

Oh, wow.

A (16:38)

Those are the things that really help me. And then I would say really start studying metacognition. Really start studying the way that we choose to think about things. There was nothing wrong with me when I was in a depression, and there's nothing wrong with them. It's just part of the human experience. The thing that was wrong with me was not knowing how to change it. And so I had to go on a journey to figure out how to take something that looks a little gloomy, like it looks outside, and how can I take that same thing and turn it into something that's sunny? And I didn't know how to do that. And so I had to start to learn the skills on how to have those conversations with myself and then take something. There's a formula that's out there called E plus R equals. Okay, so we have all of these events that happen in our lives, right? And then from these events, these can be good events or bad events. For me, I looked at most of the events that happened in my life as a bad event. Why are these people against me? Why aren't they helping me? Why aren't they supporting me? Why are they putting me in these positions? Why aren't they giving me more money? How come they're not giving me raises? How come, you know, my father wasn't here? Why did I grow up on welfare? Why does God. God treated me this way. These are all the events that showed up in Jamil's life, and they just happen to be negative. So these events are going to come. And then what I had to start to learn was the events didn't matter, really. The R matter. And the R is, how are you going to choose to respond to these events that are happening? You can't do anything about these events, right? I might walk out of these doors right now and the elevator shaft might break and I might fall to the bottom, and there's nothing I could do about that. But I do have full control over my R, which is how I choose to respond to that. So I had to go on a journey to figure out how can I now take control of that R, how can I be the alpha and omega of my Rs? Because from that it's going to give me the O, which is the outcomes. So if I learn to supersede and become a powerful force over my R's, then I'm going to have powerful O's. And that's exactly what's happened. You know, at that moment, I was broken. Broken. Five and a half years later, I was a millionaire and nothing changed but my Rs, which greatly impacted my Os.

B (19:18)

Wow. Wow. That. That's. That's a mic drop right there. Let's just end the podcast right there.

A (19:23)

And then let's go.

B (19:24)

Right. I know, I appreciate that. I think it's. It's so important like, and how you elaborate in the next. You know, stressed on that as well. And I think the problem is we all do face challenges. You know, we face challenges, we face trials, we face tribulations. And some of my. My two favorite books are Think and Grow Rich and obviously Rich Dad Poet. But Think and Grow Rich is a perfect example of people that ended up, like, responding differently to those circumstances as well. I interviewed a gentleman, Ben. Ben Care. I don't know if you know him as well. He was born with a condition on his face.

A (20:08)

Oh, I saw him. Yeah.

B (20:09)

Oh my gosh.

A (20:10)

Powerful.

B (20:11)

It.

A (20:11)

It.

B (20:11)

It left me chills in the, in the studio because sometimes being born with that, people are faced, like first thing you think, oh my gosh, what I'm going to do. This is my life forever. But it's like, if I'm going to be different and I might as well just continue the path of being different and changing the world, letting them know it's okay. And he's out there inspiring kids that have been facing that same condition as well. And I think you are. And how you respond is such a great example as well, because not many people that follow the path of not having that father fig in the home, that a person teach them to be a man. We've seen how the stats look like as well. It's almost against you because you don't have that, that support structure. Inspiring you and letting you know. So, like, that story is very inspiring. I wasn't even aware of that, you know, but I, I appreciate that. Now I want to talk as well about your company. You know, think different. Sorry, my laptop just locked you. Can you tell us a bit when you end up starting the company? And tell us a bit more about what it stands for to Think Life is Different.

A (21:20)

Yeah, Think Life Is Different. So Think Life is Different is a business and financial consulting company. So we work with mostly entrepreneurs, but also lay individuals. And so we'll help them not only scale their businesses, but one thing that happened to me was my first company that I started was the health and wellness company. And the one thing that I noticed right away is I got lucky in that business from mentors that I had. And one thing that I learned early on while building that business was that I didn't want to just be rich. I wanted to be wealthy. And that only happened from a gentleman who took me underneath his wing. His name's Craig Chapman. Shout out to Craig. But Craig says, you're going to be successful. I can see it. And he says, a big problem. Craig has been an entrepreneur forever. He has investments all over the place. I'm just trying to get by at the time. And he says, I've seen a lot of people that have your skill set and that have had success, but they never grow well. And at that time I just wanted to make a lot of money. I mean, if I'm just being honest. And then as Craig started to pour into me, I started to realize that I was after something different. I wanted legacy and so helping so many people, seeing lots of entrepreneurs, I wanted to be a little bit different and I wanted to do different things with the money that we were generating. And so early on I just started making different moves. I started living a little bit differently. Even if you look at me right now, extremely unassuming. And what I realized during that really 10 year journey was that there was a lot of people that did very well for themselves, but they never really managed their money properly to build wealth. And so that became a passion of mine. And I wanted to really be a solution for entrepreneurs, not only to help them in whatever business venture that they're in, but to start teaching them the proper money moves as they are scaling the revenues in their businesses. So Think Life Is different is been a baby of mine for actually not that long. I've had the company for six years, but before it was just a holding company. Before, if I go out and I did speaking events, I've written several books. You know, if I had, if I had things of that nature, I would do it through. Think Life Is Different. I really launched Think Life Is different as my baby baby about a year ago. And so we've exclusively been working with entrepreneurs and helping them not only build their Businesses, but become great investors.

B (24:38)

And then when you say that, is it like a. Do you use, like, financial. What tools do you use? Or do you help people, like, invest in. Is it like stocks, bonds, indices, or is it like a whole thing? Do you serve as a financial institution in a way or.

A (24:56)

No, not. Not at all. So we're. We're more of a consulting brand.

B (25:00)

Okay.

A (25:00)

And so you would come to us, you have a great brand, a great business. So we have part. Part of the division that could help you scale that business if you wanted to, and then. But the other part is, well, Jamil, I'm doing great. Like, our revenues are coming in, but I'm not really sure what to do.

B (25:17)

Okay.

A (25:18)

Could you. You'll be amazed what people do with their money. They make a lot of money. I will tell you two quick stories. So we're working with an entrepreneur right now. He has one of the largest protection companies in the world, protecting the likes of Rihanna and Beyonce and so on and so forth. So we have our first meeting, and I ask him, they're absolutely killing it. And I ask him, well, what are you doing with your money? And he says, let me show you. We're on FaceTime. And so he takes me into his office. He's got this hidden door. The door comes wide open, you wouldn't even know is there. He runs a protection company. So obviously he's got like 50 different guns that are on the wall. And then he takes me to a safe, and in his safe, he has, like 200 gold bricks. And I said, so is that. Is that where all your money is at? And he says, yeah, I keep it here. I want to make sure that it's safe. You know, I got my guns in here. And I go, okay, let's come up with a different strategy. We have another guy who has. Who has a major construction company here in Southern California. They are absolutely crushing it. And he calls us up and he's been following me for some time. And he says, you know, I want you to really help me figure out what to do with this money. I do well. I pay my guys well. I do well, but, you know, I'm first generation Mexican American. I'm not really sure what to do with it. And I said, well, where's your money? He shows me underneath his bed, and he's just got tons of 20s and $100 bills and shoeboxes. So when I tell you it is not unusual. These stories are not unusual. We have the stories of people that do very, very well financially that Blow all their money. But we also have stories of people that do very, very well financially that have no idea what to do with it. So we come alongside them, we consult them and we help them make the right money moves.

B (27:29)

No, I, and it's so interesting you say that because there's also a lot of lack of financial literacy that's not even taught in schools. I mean, I have an economics degree and I wanted, when I first came to America, follow that Wall street path and obviously did two internships like I told you before we started in New York. But there was no financial like literacy actually like taught of how to properly invest your money as well. And, and I noticed, I think there's even a stat that shows that when people even win the lottery, I don't know the exact number, but I know it's over 50% become broke within. Within the first five years.

A (28:03)

Yeah, over 70% will go broke within the first five years.

B (28:07)

Lack of financial literacy again, because you get people that work super hard, end up, end up investing while literally grassroots and build it up. But then that if I were to get 100 million right now, of course the first thing you want to do is just make sure you pray to all God almighty first.

A (28:27)

Let me pray that I get that 100 million. That's right.

B (28:31)

And then you want to call somebody in the financial advisor to try and make sure you make the right decisions and of course an attorney and all that kind of stuff. But it's that lack of financial literacy, which goes to my next question. I told you I did sales. I did sales six, seven years, still in it as well. But what I notice is that, you know, even though when I live in the Bay Area, everyone was like making six figures, that's the easiest like for us because we're selling solar. It's easy, it's, it's, you know, kind of stuff. But what happened is that stagnation of just making the six figures every single year.

A (29:06)

Right.

B (29:06)

You know, and yet again the thing is 21 year old, 22 year old guys misuse the money. Buy the trucks, buy the shoes, buy the stuff. So make a hundred, pay 20 in tax, spend another 20 in shoes, irrelevant stuff. Vacations, get left with a few money, pay school and then go the same thing as well. But now what are the, what's the thing that people get stuck with? What's the number one reason why people get stuck in that six figure range and can't break into the seven figure range from your opinion.

A (29:33)

So there's, there's lots of different reasons. One is environment. Like if. If I'm around a whole bunch of people that think that that's the highest that we can go, then that's pretty much going to. It's going to rub off on me. There's something called social synchrony. I don't know if you've ever heard. So social psychologists have coined the term social synchrony. And it means that whatever environment you put yourself in, you're going to synchronize with the people and the habits that they have and the outlooks that they have. And so I think the environment is a big, big piece. And I would say two is, is just the inability to scale. I remember when I was in pharmaceutical sales, I never thought about seven figures or eight figures or nine figures, six figures was the highest that my brain could go. Like to tell me, I remember when the moment a woman challenged me to make a million dollars a year, and it was over my head, and I thought, little old me. You mean welfare guy. Little old me make a million dollars a year? That doesn't even make sense. How do people do that? And so I think just the idea of making more is hard for people. But okay, full fine, I have the idea. But how do you actually do it? So I think the practicality of scaling to that is difficult. I think the other thing is people get comfortable. You know, Tony and I were talking about that on the way up. It's part of our human biology. My belief is to thirst for safety and, and comfort. And the way that you're going to scale income is you have to stack skills. And the only way you can stack skills is you have to be motivated to be able to bring on more skill sets. And what I have seen is most people just aren't that darn motivated to learn new skills. I mean, look at you, man, 31 years old. You said you're going to be interviewing the governor of Utah and all these people. Look how poised you are in this interview right now. Look at the questions that you're asking. These are all skill sets. Look at your ability to find this incredible venue. These are all skill sets. You have been stacking skills on an unusual rate for the last decade. Probably since you. Probably since you were 13, 12, 13 years old. Most people get to a point in life and say, I'm good. Why do I need to increase my skill set? Why do I need to learn how to become a leader? Why do I need to learn how to become a better communicator? Why do I need to learn how to manage money, how to invest. What do I need to learn? How to build a sales team? Why do I need to learn how to build a business? Why do I need to learn editing? Why do I need to learn social media? What do I need to learn at? These are all skills that if you get good at stacking them, you can trade them. Trade them for what? Money. But if you don't build those skill sets, then you're not going to make more. There's four phases in money. Unfortunately, most of us are only taught the first one, which is how to build enough skills to make a dollar. That is the worst. That's the easiest phase. I have four kids and my six year old can make a dollar. He's learned stage number one. My two year old does some modeling, he makes a dollar, does. That's the easiest stage. Second stage is managing the money. Most people are terrible at that skill set. Third phase is growing the money investing. Most people have no idea. And the fourth phase is how do I keep it? Taxation. How do I legally find a whole bunch of loopholes so that I can keep more of my money so that I can invest in more? So these are the skill sets that most people just either don't desire to learn, don't know to learn, or don't even think about learning them. So when I remember when I made $8,000 a month, I thought I was good. Why would I stay up late learning reading, stacking skills? Why would I do that? It doesn't even make sense. It doesn't make sense. I hit 8,000, I make $100,000 a year. Why would I spend more time doing that? And then I remember when I hit $30,000 a month of income and I was like, for a split second I said, man, I'm good, bro. Like, nope. In my family. You heard my family, right? In my family. Come on, man. And then somebody challenged me, they said, why don't you turn your annual income into your monthly income? I said, wow, okay. So I set a goal. $83,333 a month of income. Do you know the skills that I had to learn from 8,000amonth to 80,000amonth? I assure you it wasn't like working six hours a day, coming home and watching Netflix and chilling.

B (34:55)

Precisely.

A (34:56)

You see what I'm saying?

B (34:57)

100%.

A (34:58)

So there's so much that goes into that that I'm just telling you the average person is not willing to do. And so we stay at whether it's $100,000 a year, 200,000, 50,000, 500,000, even a million, 6 million. You know, we all have this threshold to where we say I'm good and, and once I say I'm good, I don't have to learn the skills that's needed to go to the next level.

B (35:27)

Oh, perfect. And just a follow up on that. I love that so much. A follow up on that. Then when building eight figure businesses, what structure and also what structure and also systems were like game changing to try and upscale to that level. Like, what structure did you use for that?

A (35:45)

Yeah. So let's take a look at the first business. So it's funny, I just did a podcast on this and I remember KG almost quitting the business because I couldn't figure out how to get our revenues to more than like $20,000 a month. It was absolutely crushing me. And I went to another seminar and even that is a skill investing into yourself. You said you came out here to go to seminars to keep learning, to keep growing. And, and I remember listening to one of the presenters and he was talking about scalability and scaling and he said that you're not scaling because you're the bottleneck in the business. And I was like, what is that? And I remember at the same time reading a book by Robert Kiyosaki called the Cash Flow Quadrant.

B (36:39)

Cash Flow Quadrant, Very good book.

A (36:42)

Yes. I devoured that book. I devour. I couldn't put it down. I was like, oh my gosh, this is my problem now. I'm, I'm, I'm an S.

B (36:55)

It's better than an E. It's better than an.

A (36:58)

E. It's better than an E. But I have a lot of internal problems. And most of my internal problems is me. I'm selfish, man. Like, I want all the clout, I want all the glory. I want everybody to look at Jamil. I want to stand on stages, I want to be on the podcast, I want to be in the interviews. I want to, I want to do the marketing, I want to do the sales, I want to do the books, I want to do the billing. I want to do everything. And I realized I had trust issues. I didn't trust other people enough for them to do a job that they're good at that will free me up to go do the things that I'm good at. And so in that moment I was like, there's a personality trait that I really need to answer here. And it's preventing me from scaling. And it's, I don't trust people. And so how we started to go from, you know, revenues of $100,000 a month to, to 500,000 to a million a month to 4 million a month was creating systems. Everything had to be systematized. And we needed to scale people. I needed to be able to find people, become what a leader is supposed to be, find great talent, bring people in, train them up well, put people in place to train them up well. And the more that I can expand that system, the more people that we can serve. So I remember when we brought in, man, the first three sales reps, they were not good. Kg, like, they were not. But that was a reflection of leadership though, too, right? But they were not like, super talented. But it was the beginning of something. And even with them, I remember the first few sales that they made, and these were the first sales that had come into the company that I didn't make. And I was floored. It was like the greatest day of my life. I said, man, we got some revenue coming in that didn't require me. It was amazing. So I got a little taste of that. And then I said, okay, well, we just got to create more systems, create. Create more structure, create more sales scripts, create more SOPs, get more people in here, scale this thing out. And then from that we should be able to make a bigger impact. And then key performance indicators, right? Like, I knew that for each sales rep, the average sell, even if they were not good and never really even did anything, the average revenue that that was applied to each sales rep was about $8,000. So if I wanted to scale revenue, then I need to think, even if these people are not good, minimum is going to be $8,000 per rep. So that just means I got to get more people.

B (40:05)

So powerful. You know, I'm such a, such a hypocrite. So you're going to have to give me advice on this one. I'm in the same, same boat. I. I have three editors. Ryan also, like, assists me in doing a few stuff. And then obviously, like James and a few other guys, they left. They were with me at VidCon. They went back to, like, Salt Lake as well. But the problem is sometimes you're in this role where, like, nobody can do it the way I do it. I know nobody can freaking connect and get that right connection like I do. Nobody. So I have this one editor who edits. I'm like this. And he's such a good editor. I'm like, I don't care, care what he wants to charge me. You're gonna get that because I've Been through awful editors. That's like, listen, yeah, bro, I want to get you full time. I don't want this thing where you're freelancing. I want you full time because you do such a great job. But like I, I met the, I'm such a hypocrite because I'm at the thing. It's like I'm babing everything, like I'm babying it. I'm excited to see the growth I have my team upscale in the podcast and stuff, but it's like I want to be, do everything I want to do, but it's not even for the, necessarily the clout because you're good at it, but it's. I'm just good at it. I can find myself in that right room. I can build rapport, I can build that connection. I like, I, I'm very passionate. I have an unwavering level of confidence that I can get anyone in the podcast or connect with anyone. I just have that, that it's, it's so hard to say, listen, I'm gonna give a team to try and find sure certain guests. You know what I'm saying? What advice would you give me?

A (41:36)

Because, well, there's nothing wrong with you. Your gift is your curse and your curse is your gift. This is the bottleneck that most entrepreneurs are going to face if they want to scale. Now. There's nothing wrong with being a self employed or small business owner. There's nothing wrong in it at all.

B (41:58)

It can burn you out, though. It can burn you out.

A (42:01)

It most likely will. So there's positives and negatives to every person that makes up our economy, their employees. There's positives and negatives to that. If you're self employed, a small business owner is positive and negatives. There's positives and negatives to building something big and there's positive and negatives to being an investor. Your gift is that you are different. There's no way we would be sitting up here if you were not different. Inherently, we are literally doing something that's very different than most of the world's not doing. Because you're gifted, you're super gifted. The challenge is most entrepreneurs that are gifted like you will stay small because nobody else can do what they do. So in this moment, this is where the leadership comes in. This is where we're able to start managing our ego. And I'm not saying ego as this esoteric thing that's good or bad. I'm saying the same ego that got you at 31 years old sitting where we're sitting, that's a great thing. But now we have to separate that, because that can be a hindrance for the business, for the vision, for the mission, for the impact that you want to make. And so now we just have to. We have to have a come to Jesus moment with ourselves. Bro, I've been here to where I say, okay, am I standing in the way of the reach of the mission, of what I'm doing? Because I am so good. I don't. If I'm a. I. I feel like I'm pretty good at sales, right? I don't know that I. I probably could find somebody who was better than me. I probably could. I'm sure I could, right? But even. Even with that, I'm still gonna feel like I'm. Like, I'm him. I'm the same. You know what I mean? But is that going to now hinder the ability for us to go out and partner with all these other really talented entrepreneurs that are making great revenues and great income, but are blowing their money? It is. Because we're not going to be able to have the reach. I cannot do it all myself. So in my second book, my favorite chapter in this book is called find your 12. And I was modeling this chapter off of the idea of leverage, right? Which, you know, well, because you have a team. And I said, you know, whatever someone's religious affiliation is, this isn't about that. It's just about the structure, the frameworking of. You know, when Jesus felt called to his mission, one of the first things he did was went out and found a team, right? And he realized right away, if I have this very big mission, I have this vision, I feel like my purpose here, here, it's to go help other people find their purpose, then I. I would be silly to try to do it myself. I am gifted. I'm literally the one. But even with that, my job is more than that to raise other people up to the highest capability that they could be at and then release them, right? So I raise up, and I release and I release this feeling of everything has to be perfect, like Jamil does it. And that takes internal. That's. That's an internal journey. Because for me, this water cup right here has to be like, there might be some ocd, right? Like, it got to be pushed back a little bit, right? But, like, there's a million other people that can push back that water cup. It doesn't have to be perfect. And so I think that that is a journey for all entrepreneurs that really want to scale. You are where you're at because you're gifted and you're very, very, very talented. I am where I'm at because I'm different and I'm talented and I want it more than most other people. This is going to be the same for all of us, especially the ones that start to do unusual things. But that gift can also be a curse if we don't have that internal journey to move ourselves to the side and raise people up and then release them and let them do what they do.

B (46:52)

And I couldn't agree more. I fully concur with that, which is the second part of my hypocrisy is the fact that I hate being micromanaged. But it's the fact that, like, I'll give a few toss to my editors and stuff. And I'm like, needs to be that way. Needs to be that way. And it's like, listen. I'm like, that's the one thing I hate doing. And naturally it's something that just comes about. It's like. It's like, why can't I stop doing it? I need to always fully be in control of every darn thing, the time, every. And it's becoming like. Like one of my guys pulling to pull me aside. It's like, listen, like, he made an example, which I like a lot because I, I said example. I gave one of my. My old managers when I was doing sales because. So there's a soccer. Soccer manager right now. I don't know if you follow, like, European soccer stuff, but he, He's a manager in, in Europe right now. His name is Carlo Ancelotti. It's not the Brazilian national team manager.

A (47:47)

Okay.

B (47:47)

But he's got a very unique way of giving tactics right now. The new modern managers have got this way of, of like putting the players out, but they literally out there overdoing the coaching on the side and they're confusing the players. It's. It's just becoming a little complicated. But what Carlo does is that he knows he's got the talent. He just sets them up well defensively. But it's like, listen, use your creativity to try and get the best out of the game, and then use your talent to get a goal and make the team win. And I think that's been proven to be in a very unique and peculiar way. That's why he's the most. One of the most successful coaches, because what he does with the talent, it's like a. More like a laser sphere kind of thing. Come together. Think for yourself. But like you got the talent, that's why you in the team now find a way to get the team to win. And I think I have to keep reminding myself that sometimes. Cause I just have to always make sure everything happens right, that it's okay if things don't happen right, you know. And I think that's my biggest problem is that I'm a hypocrite in that because I hate being micromanaged, but I like, I need to micromanage. And I think it's just that thing of understanding that I'm also taking away from, from, from people's full potential and talents as well. So you want to add on that before we continue as well?

A (49:02)

Not really, man. You, you sound, you, you sound like somebody who's gifted. I mean that's, that's, that's what I take away from it. You sound like somebody who is an entrepreneur that kind of, you know, sees something out in the future and understands the way your mind process is, is you, you can see it, you can taste it, you can feel it, you could touch it. You kind of know how you want it to be. And even if you don't know how you want it to be, you know when it's not right. And that's just the journey. The journey is when do I exercise? You know, when do I exercise this art and when do I exercise the science? The science is easy when we're dealing with people, right? Do this, do this, do this, do this, do this. The art is when do I use my intuition, when do I go a little bit strong, when do I pull back, when do I just allow for little tiny screw ups to happen? When do I say something, when do I empower, when do I take control? This is just all part of it. And the more and more that we do it and consciously put ourselves in position to where we're like we are making sure that everything is done for a reason. Then in my experience, it just gets easier and it gets better and we just learn how to do it a little bit more efficiently. But this to me is not unusual. And it's just, it's just part of the process.

B (50:38)

Now with coaching, coaching is very important. People need to have those mentors out there. What are the most important things that you teach people that makes them upscale and elevate their business?

A (50:53)

I think what I have become good with is teaching people how to think. And I, I say that a little bit tongue in cheek, but I also say it with all sincerity. I, I think we are heat creatures of habits and creatures, of patterns. And we get really good at just doing things because we do them or somebody else does them, or we were taught to do them this way. And when I say to think, I'm also saying to, to innovate, to take a step back, to imagine, well, what if this was done differently? And to seriously think about what do you actually want? You'd be amazed. If you go up to 10 people, 10 entrepreneurs, and say, what do you want? You'll be amazed how many people will not be able to answer that. And so just to take the second to think, think, what do you, what do you want? What are we doing this for? What are we, what do you. What are we impacting? What is, like, what's the why behind this thing? And not this superficial, esoteric. I heard this on KG's podcast, why, like, somebody said it, so it sounds really dope, but. But what is. What is it for you? And then. So I think that I've become good at that. I think that I've also become good at getting people to think about the things that they think about. And what I mean by that is to have conversations with themselves, starting with, is what I'm doing or going to do? Is that serving me? And how do I know if it's serving me? Well, is it now that I've determined what I actually want, like, for me, I, I, my number one want is freedom. Freedom. And a way that I define that is being able to, every minute of my day, I own and, and I get to do exactly what it is that I want to do. And so somebody else, their sort of North Star might be different, but regardless of what it is, is the actions that I'm doing today, the steps that I'm taking today, the way that I'm running my business, my companies, the things that I'm doing with my money, is that even serving me? Well, how do I know? Is that going to get us here? Is it going to keep us the same, or is it going to make things worse? I think it's going to keep me right where I'm at. Well, what do you think we should do then? Like, if it's going to keep you right here, is that where you want to be? No. So what do you think you should do? And I think that's another thing that I've become pretty gifted at, is letting people kind of figure things out on their own. They kind of know, what do you think you should do? Well, maybe I shouldn't buy that $120,000 car when I need to add five more people to the team, I'm inhibiting my ability to scale my business because I want to increase my lifestyle way too early. You could be taking that 120 that you're going to spend on that BMW 7 Series and add five more people to your team. That's going to scale revenues by half a million. A million dollars.

B (54:47)

That's 100% facts, right?

A (54:49)

So like, why are we doing this right now? Does that serve you or would that be better to hold off for three, four, five years? So if it's better, then let's set a plan for what that looks like. Can we imagine what that looks like? Yeah, Jamil, but look what KG is doing with his company and what he's driving. You got to stay in your lane. And that's why we focus on what do you want to create.

B (55:17)

That's so facts. Because comparison is a thief of success sometimes. Because for sure, and I think social media has become a blessing and a curse. Like we, you mentioned when you made the similitude an example because you're like, hang on, I know him. Like, yeah, we used to roll together. Like, he got that thing. I can get that. Yeah, as well. That can be very detrimental and very damaging to one's progress as well.

A (55:37)

Very damaging, man. I, I, I remember a story with that. So we, we start to do okay, but you know, I, I rolled around in, in my Prius for a long time. Man, I love that car. But I remember going to a conference and, and someone else in the industry that had done well, they jammed me up and they said, and I thought you were doing good. And I go, oh. I go, you know, we're, we're figuring things out. I go, well, why do you say? And he goes, man, you're still, you're still driving your Prius. And in that moment I realized that like, oh, this is the thing that gets people in trouble. The image that right there.

B (56:25)

No, you know, you know what's crazy with that one answer? You answered three of the questions I was going to ask as well. So now I'm grateful you touched on that. And I always ask all the guests this thing because it's called the code to winning. Winning is very important, but winning is defined differently to different people with your experience and your, and everything that you've, you've gained and, and the lessons you've learned, the principles, habits, everything, like your entire life. Jamil, today, what's your definition of winning?

A (56:55)

I think my definition of winning is, goes back to figuring out the things that you really want to do, like that you really want to do. And then I think once you accomplish those that it's winning. Now my North Star for 12 years, now 13 years have been, I want to live a stress free life, I want to be happy, I want to keep my kids, I want to have a fruitful marriage. Like those are at the top of my list even before all the other stuff. And then I say, okay, well what is going to help me create those things? Stress, have a stress free life, be happy, like have my kids be taken care of, my wife reveres me, all this stuff. And I say, well, in order to have those things, I'm going to have to make a certain amount of money. Right? Okay, great. So we can set some metrics for that for individual income and business revenue. Cool. So if I start meeting those things and now I live that fulfilled life, then that is winning to me. For somebody else it may be different, but I think inherently it's really figuring out what it is that you want to do independent of the shoulds, independent of what other people are doing or what mama may have told you you should do or what a football coach said that you should do or a mentor or whatever. I think really getting clear on what do you want. And then as you pursue that and start to meet those goals, I really feel like that's a winning life.

B (58:49)

Powerful. No, no, I appreciate that. Thank you very much for coming to the studio. Thank you for the insights you shared. I think this is going to be a very amazing episode and I hope it people that are out there that are watching. Jamil Frey is the investor, coach, business leader. And I'll leave if you could let the guests know where they can get a hold of you if they want to touch base and like learn a bit more about your business as well.

A (59:11)

Yeah, absolutely. So I mean we can it's go to our website, thinklifeisdifferent.com you can find me on Instagram, YouTube @therealjamil Frazier. And yeah, that's where we can connect.

B (59:27)

The code twinning insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow. Jamil Fraser. Great honor, boss.

A (59:34)

Thank you, sir.