BUILDING WEALTH THROUGH REINVENTION: INSPIRING JOURNEY OF RESILIENCE || MATT CHICK || EPISODE 062

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Code To Winning

Episode: 062 – Building Wealth Through Reinvention: Inspiring Journey of Resilience
Guest: Matt Chick
Host: Kagiso Dikane
Date: October 16, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Kagiso Dikane interviews Matt Chick—a real estate investor, entrepreneur, coach, and team leader—about his transformative journey from poverty to entrepreneurial success. The discussion delves into mindset shifts, resilience, the mechanics of real estate investing, building genuine relationships, and the disciplined habits required to "win" in business and life.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Rags to Riches: Origins of Resilience

• Background of Hardship:
  • Matt details growing up in poverty, absent father, and a household with minimal income ([00:00], [01:47], [02:13]).
  • Learned work ethic by observing what not to do: "I learned how to be a good human by watching other people be bad." — Matt Chick ([00:00], [02:13]).
• Mindset Shift:
  • Decision to break out of generational poverty and refusal to repeat negative patterns.
  • "You either become the thing that you hate the most or don’t become the thing that you hate the most." — Matt Chick ([00:00], [02:13]).

2. Dealing with Anxiety and Leveraging It

• Anxiety as a Motivator:
  • Matt discusses ongoing anxiety and turning it into a "superpower" by using it to catalyze action ([05:22]).
  • "Now anxiety puts me into action. The thing that’s creating the anxiety—if I can take action towards it, then it doesn’t [stop me]." — Matt Chick ([05:22]).

3. Pivot to Real Estate: From Cars to Creating Opportunities

• Career Crossroads:
  • Left a high-stress car dealership job for real estate, motivated by family needs and the desire for autonomy ([06:19]).
  • "Car business, I was capped. I was never going to make any more money." — Matt Chick ([07:55]).
• Passion for Investing:
  • Embraces real estate investing for the ability to create his own income and design his lifestyle.
  • "At the end of the day, you get to decide what you make on that deal." — Matt Chick ([08:02], [08:24]).

4. The Truth About Real Estate Flipping

• Finding the Deals:
  • The foundation is "deal flow"—find great deals, and the rest follows ([10:39]).
  • Early success came from cold calling, bulk texting, networking, and creating a focused "hit list" of potential investors ([10:39]).
  • Raised capital through genuine relationships—$1M at first, eventually $7.5M, all on handshakes ([13:02], [13:52]).
  • "I raised seven and a half million on a handshake. Didn’t have any... no contracts." — Matt Chick ([13:52]).
• Scaling Lessons:
  • Discovered the risks of scaling too fast, the need to mix private and hard money, and adapted when setbacks hit.
  • Repaid investors after losing nearly half a million in the 2022 market dip: "I lived on my savings while I paid him back because that was the right thing to do." — Matt Chick ([14:16]).

5. Strategies for Entering Real Estate

• Active vs. Passive Income:
  • Prefers "active income" strategies (wholesale, fix and flip, novations) over conventional rentals:
    "I absolutely hate [residential rentals]." ([15:25])
• Explaining Novations:
  • Novation is "replacing one contract with another" and allows for creative exit strategies. Used primarily out-of-state ([16:25], [16:29]).

6. Integrity & Avoiding the “Fake Guru” Trap

• On “Gurus”:
  • Critiques post-COVID wave of so-called experts selling courses without real experience. Emphasizes genuine track record and honest networking ([09:09]-[10:09]).
  • "Social media has changed the game. You don’t need... If you have popularity, you have everything." — Matt Chick ([09:18]).

7. Investment Risks, Discernment, and Relationships

• Deal Discipline:
  • Only pursues deals he can physically inspect and thoroughly underwrite; risk discipline learned through costly mistakes ([41:23]-[42:20]).
  • "If I can’t walk it, cool—send it to someone else." — Matt Chick ([41:51])
  • Focuses on "disqualifying" deals first: "I literally look at every deal on why it's not a deal." ([42:04])
• Investor Relationships:
  • Built on trust, integrity, transparency, and a few “tough” times:
    "When he goes, 'I’m gonna take 100% of the hit,'... I’d go to war for him. I’d protect his family like he was mine." — Matt Chick ([45:10]-[45:47])

8. Business Structure, Delegation, and Team Building

• Clarity in Roles:
  • Embraces delegation: "I’m really good at step one... step two through 99, I need someone else to do." ([33:19]-[33:52])
• Recruiting and Culture:
  • "The number one thing to focus on... when you’re building a real estate team is recruiting. Always be recruiting." ([30:29])
  • Key standards: daily connects, task completion, high participation, spirit of contribution:
    "Don’t be an asshole. What that really means is have a spirit of contribution." ([34:36])
• Attrition and Retention:
  • Retention remains challenging (30% attrition), but focus is on building culture and providing opportunities ([37:02]-[37:27]).

9. Habits, Coaching, and Personal Development

• Consistency is Key:
  • "Entrepreneurship is actually really boring... the boring things are what works." — Matt Chick ([31:43])
• Investing in Coaching:
  • Spends $6k/month on various coaches across business, marketing, and health ([27:09]-[28:20]).
  • Sees coaching as a "cheat code" to accelerate success and accountability ([28:32], [29:09]).
  • "I’ve never, ever interviewed a single person... that has not invested in themselves." — Host ([28:20])

10. Philosophy on Winning and Success

• Definition of “Winning”:
  • "First thing that comes to my mind is relationship with God." ([49:18])
  • Relentless pursuit of a purpose:
    "It’s about living with purpose and never losing sight of that purpose. Having something to live for that’s greater than yourself." — Matt Chick ([49:18]-[50:07])

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Poverty:
  "You learn work ethic by watching my stepdad call out of work or my mom not work... I learned how to be a good human by watching other people be bad." (Matt Chick, [00:00])
• On Anxiety:
  "Anytime I’m anxious it’s because I’m not taking action... Now anxiety puts me into action." (Matt Chick, [05:22])
• On Real Estate Investing:
  "If you can find the deal, you can find everything else." (Matt Chick, [10:39]) "Raising capital is no different. This is what we could do if you come along on the ride with us." (Matt Chick, [13:02])
• On Integrity with Investors:
  "I lived on my savings while I paid him back because that was the right thing to do." (Matt Chick, [14:16]) "It was on a handshake. There’s no flipping way I would walk away from that." (Matt Chick, [14:48])
• On Coaching:
  "If you don’t know the answer, you can either go figure it out, or you could pay someone that’s already been there." (Matt Chick, [27:53]) "It’s a cheat code. I can pay someone... people that have done it." (Matt Chick, [28:32])
• On Focus and Discipline:
  "Made a decision to just stay laser beam focused on what I’m good at... and say no to everything else." (Matt Chick, [26:25]-[26:36])
• On Relationships:
  "If one dude was in a fight, you all were in a fight... It only comes by being authentic and vulnerable." (Matt Chick, [46:34])
• On Simplicity:
  "I drive a 98 Silverado, right? And people make fun of me all the time... I live a simple life, man." (Matt Chick, [48:10])

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Key Timestamps

• 00:00-02:13 – Matt’s background, poverty, work ethic, foundational mindset
• 05:22 – Turning anxiety into action
• 06:19-08:24 – Real estate as the “way out”; career transition, immediate challenges
• 10:39-13:52 – Building flipping business, raising capital, importance of relationships over paperwork
• 14:16-14:48 – Taking losses, repaying investors, integrity
• 15:25-17:21 – Real estate strategies: active income, flipping, novation explained
• 27:09-29:09 – Mentorship, coaching, habits, accountability
• 30:29-32:18 – Team building, recruitment and the discipline of consistency
• 33:19-34:24 – Delegation, self-awareness in business structure
• 41:10-42:20 – Biggest painful investment, lessons learned, new deal discipline
• 46:34-47:58 – Building genuine relationships, the value of vulnerability
• 49:18-50:07 – What “winning” means; purpose, faith, and sustained pursuit

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Final Thoughts

Matt Chick’s journey is a testament to resilience, focus, and authentic relationship-building. For those navigating real estate, entrepreneurship, or personal transformation, Matt’s philosophies—turning adversity into a superpower, being radically honest, investing in mentorship, and upholding integrity with stakeholders—offer a robust blueprint for sustainable "winning."

Connect with Matt Chick:

• Instagram: @IAmMattChick
• Facebook: Matt Chick

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“The code to winning: Insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow.”

Transcript

[Matt Chick]

Everybody loves the rags to riches story, right? There's because people can relate to it. Right? But I was born into a poverty family like my parents. You know, my mom didn't work, she went to school pretty much full time. My stepdad was making 12, 13 bucks an hour. My real dad was gone, left when I was three, came back when I was like 13. There's two ways that you can look at that, right? So one, you could take the things that you see on a daily basis. Right. So, you know, I learned work ethic by watching my stepdad call out of work or my mom not work. Right, Right. I learned how to be a good human by watching other people be bad. Either become the thing that you hate the most or don't become the thing that you hate the most.

[Interviewer]

When was that exact moment when you realized that real estate was your way out and was a chance for you to rewrite your own family legacy as well?

[Matt Chick]

You know, I like that question a lot. I didn't know like I was in a car business. I was running four dealerships. I had over 60 employees, running 25 salespeople. I enjoy real estate, real estate as a traditional sales agent, I enjoy it to a degree. Real estate investing is really what I'm passionate about, you know, because you kind of create your own income, you create your own opportunities. You know, sure you got to go out and hustle and find it, hunt and kill it, drag it home, but at the end of the day, you get to decide what you make on that deal.

[Interviewer]

The code to winning insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow. If you are interested in learning about real estate, real estate development, investing. I have a person right now who is very experienced in the field. He's also a coach, he's a founder, above all a father and husband as well. So there's going to be a very, very enlightening interview. So if you are specifically interested in learning a lot about in the real estate space, pay attention. This is going to be a very, like I said, educational, very informative interview. Without further ado, the man himself, we have Matt Ch Chick.

[Matt Chick]

Thanks for having me, man. I'm jacked. I'm excited, dude.

[Interviewer]

Thank you so much. Thank you very much, boss. I mean one of the things I do love about people, I think you and I discussed earlier on, before we started, everyone somewhat got a story, everybody. And I know you just shared something briefly. You started speaking about Christianity path, being an atheist and finding God. But obviously you mentioned that your past was filled with hardship and poverty. How did that shape your hunger for success in real estate, man, it's.

[Matt Chick]

So I guess I actually get that question a ton, right? Because everybody loves the. The rags to riches story, right? There's. Because people can relate to it, right? But I was. I was born into a poverty family like my parents. You know, my mom didn't work. She went to school pretty much full time. My dad, my stepdad was making 12, 13 bucks an hour. My real dad was gone, left when I was three, came back when I was like 13. But I think there's two. There's two ways that you can look at that, right? So one, you could take the. The things that you see on a daily basis, right? So, you know, I learned work ethic by watching my stepdad call out of work or my mom not work, right? I learned. I learned, you know. You know, I learned how to be a good human by watching other people be bad, right? Does that make sense? So it's like you go, so poverty, when it comes to creating money and finances, it was like two. There's only two paths here. For me, it was either stay, stay in poverty, stay broke, stay exactly how I was raised, or. Or go create something out of life, right? And it's either you. Either you either stay exactly where you're at or you get to go build something. And for me, it was. I didn't like where I was at. I hated being broke. It's probably why I did stuff that I did to make money at an early age. And, you know, I just hated. I hated being poor. I hated it. I hated it with a passion. So I knew that wasn't for me. And, you know, for me it was like, okay, I'll go do whatever I need to do to make sure that I'm not poor, to make sure that I have money. So that for me, it was like, take the lessons I've learned from my f. My parents that weren't good lessons and turn them into positives, right? So either become the thing that you hate the most or don't become the thing that you hate the most. So for me, it was. It was. I turned away from it. Not everybody's that lucky, though. Like, some people fall into the same trap, the same things, the same lessons, and they become the same. The same identity that they've had their entire life, right? So. So it's through personal development, self growth, and all those things, right?

[Interviewer]

And that's an easy way as well, you know?

[Matt Chick]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Just used to it. You're accustomed to it. You're surrounded by it. As well. So.

[Matt Chick]

Man, we've been broke multiple times, bro.

[Interviewer]

Like.

[Matt Chick]

Like, I've taken a ton of risk in life, and I've lost money and made money, and there's times. But you're right. Being poor, I'm scared of it, but I know that I can get through. Does create a resilience in you if you know what it's like to boil water on a stove, to take a bath or. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know. Some people can relate to that. Some won't. Like, or, you know, we've had potatoes or eggs. I can't eat eggs to this day because we had so many eggs growing up because they were cheap. So, like, they're not cheap anymore, but, like, they're not cheap anymore. That's billionista. Yeah, I know. I know. So it's just, like, you just get conditioned to those things that you just don't want to be that way anymore. So for me, it was good. It pushed me to. To want to go create something that's worth having.

[Interviewer]

One of the things I noticed as well from people I've interacted with, those that are still trying to find their path, usually those that had that poverty background, there's a level of anxiety and anxiousness. You know, it's like a fear of. I don't want to go back. Back there to the point where they willing to do anything, you know, kind of thing. Did you ever have, like, that?

[Matt Chick]

I have. I still have anxiety to this day. Yeah, for sure. Like, anxiety is a real thing for me. I've just learned how to use anxiety as a. As a superpower. Right. So, like, before, anxiety would stop me, you know, it would. It would worry me. I'd stay up at night. It would be challenging. I couldn't sleep. My wife's the only thing that could calm me. Thank God for her. But now I look, anytime I'm anxious, it's because I'm not taking action. So now anxiety puts me into action. So the thing that's creating the anxiety, if I can take action towards it, then it doesn't, you know, as long as I'm gonna go do something, like, if I'm worried about raising a couple hundred thousand bucks or, you know, raising money for a project that we have or a house that we just closed and we got to start construction or whatever, the thing that gives me anxiety, I'll just go work on it. And if I can't work on it, I've learned not to worry about it.

[Interviewer]

I couldn't Agree more. And when was that exact moment when you realized that real estate was your way out and was the chance for you to rewrite your own family legacy as well?

[Matt Chick]

You know this. I like that question. That's a lot. I like that question a lot. I didn't know, like, I was in a car business. I was running four dealerships. I had over 60 employees, running 25 salespeople, and I freaking loved it. I freaking loved it. Fast pace, closing, people, sales, high energy, sales environment. It's just, it was built for me, but my wife hated it. I was working six, seven days a week, 12, 14, 15 hours a day. My just had, I had two kids. My getting ready, had my daughter. My wife just hated it, right? So she kind of gave me an ultimatum of like, hey, I already raised two kids without you, you're never around. If I have to do it, I'm going to do it legit without you. She swears she didn't say that to me, but that's how I heard it. You know, sometimes we hear stuff, she's like, I didn't say that. I'm like, that's how I took it. So, like, it forced me to get into real estate. I had a buddy that was doing pretty well in real estate. I've been invested in real estate for about 20 years now. So I was flipping back when I was like 22, 23 years old, lost a bunch of money and then was kind of just dabb in it. So I was just like, man, screw it, let's go. I'm going to go full time and, and see what I can do. But became passionate about real estate once I found what the vehicle could actually do. Yeah, when you get in the beginning and you're just trying to. Just trying to survive, Right. I went from making, I don't know, 125 to $130,000 a year in the car business to no income, 30 grand in the bank. That 30 grand doesn't last very long, you know what I'm saying? So, like, it was out of necessity. Three kids at home and a wife. Wife and three kids at home. I had to go perform. So I just worked it like a job. And next thing you know, you close a deal, you make 10 grand. You close the deal, make 15 grand, and then you're like, what can I really do? Right. And then you have no ceiling anymore. Car business. I was capped. I was never going to make any more money.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Matt Chick]

You know, so as much as you.

[Interviewer]

Can work so much, like, you can just go so High, you know, because it's still the same sales, commission, sales.

[Matt Chick]

And you don't own it. Yeah, you don't own it, you know. You know, eventually you got to own, own a piece of it. Maybe not all of it, but eventually you got to own a little bit of. If you want to generate real wealth, long term wealth, you know, in real estate does that it'll you to own a piece of real estate or own business or, you know, even your fe Highle salesperson closing 50 to 60 units a year could be close to making a million bucks in gci.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Matt Chick]

So like it's just, it just kind of just shown to me. And then real estate in general, I, I enjoy real estate. Real estate as a traditional sales agent, I enjoy it to a degree. Real estate investing is really what I'm passionate about. You know, because you kind of create your own income, you create your own opportunities, you know, sure, you got to go out and hustle and find it, hunt and kill it, drag it home, but at the end of the day, you get side what you make on that deal.

[Interviewer]

Oh, I love it so much. And so obviously flipping right now, it's becoming an ever so popular thing. And yeah, the problem is also trying to see through these fake gurus that just, just started like after covert, you know, the problem with, with you know, life before and after covert is that there's just more gurus that just started something for like a year or two. They want to try and teach courses.

[Matt Chick]

And you, you need zero proof that you've done anything in it. And you can go make money in it if you could teach it.

[Interviewer]

That's ridiculous.

[Matt Chick]

It's true though. You know, that's what it is, man.

[Interviewer]

That's ridiculous.

[Matt Chick]

You know, social media has changed the game. You know, you don't need. If you have popularity, you have everything.

[Interviewer]

Which is even back then, popularity had to be earned. And right now it's just like you say one thing, go with it, and people just like follow the crowd as well. So people even doing their due diligence are like, well, I found the guy was a forum like, but you just looked at his amount of followers as well, you know what I'm saying? And that's the thing that I feel like that's so hard to try and see through the right people. And I don't know what it is, but like, the best way I've been connecting with high quality people is the fact that like, my like surrounding is like quality as well. And I've noticed that people like Jake and Joe, because of how they are, I feel like sometimes you're also born with that natural discernment where you just know, like, these people are just legit and it's just. It ends up rubbing off that 100. I just. It's so hard going through so many people. I'm like, this is. This. People aren't genuine. Like, it's.

[Matt Chick]

I'm sure you see it more than I do. I'm sure you see it a lot. You get to interview people and it's like, like this is our first time meeting. You're either going to know I'm genuine or not by the end of it. Right. I'm sure you see that a lot, you know.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, no, they spoke really highly of you. They spoke really high and I was excited.

[Matt Chick]

I appreciate those guys. Yeah, they're good people.

[Interviewer]

No, and I think so. When you started in flipping, what was, what was the process of which you did that? Was it like, did you have to get the right credit score? Did you have to get the right lender? Did you have to get the right place? Or what was the first step that you, that you kind of.

[Matt Chick]

Deal flow is everything. So if you can find the deal, you can find everything else. Right? So we just got really, really good at finding the deal. Right. So cold calling, you know, bulk texting. Back when it was a thing, agent referrals, like, we were just laser beam focused on finding deals. And then once I started finding deals, there's really only a couple of ways I knew how to dispo the deal. It was either wholesale it or, you know, fix it up and flip it. So once I figured out I didn't have enough capital to fix and flip, I started raising capital. Made a top 25 hit list. I have a buddy of mine that was doing CrossFit at 11am during the day. And I'm like, either his wife supports him or he has money. Because if you're working out in the middle of the day, you know, either working at night or something. But he seemed pretty well to do. So we just started hitting that hit list and started pitching. I was pitching people, I was pitching people on what we were going to do, not what we've done, right? So it was all like, hey, here's my vision, here's what it looks like, here's a model, here's what I'm thinking. And dude, we had two meetings. One meeting, we raised a million bucks and started flipping. One guy. Yeah, he believed in it. The original ass was only for $60,000 because I wanted to spend money on ads. So we were going to wholesale everything. We were just going to wholesale everything. And then this guy was like, hey, you know, I'll come in and bring some money. And then in the very beginning, we were giving 30% of our profit away to him. He would carry the house, carry the rehab, 30%. And then as you start scaling, you realize buying houses with 100% cash is an absolute mistake because your scalability is low. Like, you know, if your average asset is 400,000 bucks, you know, $4 million doesn't go that far. It's hard to scale. Right?

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Matt Chick]

So then we started using hard money with a combination of private money. Went and raised about seven and a half million. Have nowhere near that in the street anymore. But, you know, right now we stay pretty, pretty lean right now. But we've done, I don't know, 155. 155 deals over the last four and a half years, something like that.

[Interviewer]

What advice would you give? Because I. I've only experienced this thing like recently where obviously I'm going to be heading towards, like, event space because I've been connecting some of the top podcasters as well. So something that it's in work in progress. And it was shocking to me when I actually had investors approach me and I'm like, gosh dang, I've only been doing this thing and see the potential. It just, it's mind blowing. But for, for people out there, I mean, you were so successful the first, like, go. What advice would you give those that are trying to like, do funding and like, try and like, get investors on board?

[Matt Chick]

Yeah. When you sell anything, you sell the future. When you sell a business, you sell a future. Like, you've got to show where you're currently at and that you're viable business, but you always sell the future. Right. This is what you could do with it if you take it, if you come along on the ride with us. So raising capital is no different. This is what we could do if you come along on the ride with us. You're a key instrument in it. I'm going to go raise, you know, 15, 10, 15, 20 million bucks or whatever it is, you know, then you got to, then you got to create your hit list of people that you're going to go after that potentially have the money, and then you're going to go either is it private equity or is it going to go, you know, big bank equity stuff, you know, and that's a whole nother realm. I have no clue. 100% of my money is private. It's all, it's all people that I know. None of it's like bank, you know, we have hard money lenders that will lend on, on the deals for us. It's all people that I've made genuine relationships. Handshake deals. Wow. I raised, I raised seven and a half million on a handshake. Didn't have any. No contracts.

[Interviewer]

Unbelievable. That tells a lot about someone's character. Because right now, you know, it's just so sad with how much less trust people just have within people. And it's because there's many gurus that have ruined the industry, you know, like in everything people have done. And I think just having that in just handshakes and still being afloat right now, it tells a lot about someone's character as well, you know, so we.

[Matt Chick]

Lost in 2022, when the market blipped, we lost close half a million dollars of investor money. And then so I started calling all my investors, let them know where we're at. We only had a couple investors at the time. One guy, my main guy, he took 100% of the loss. And then it took me. I took two years and I paid him back. I think we have a balance of, I don't know, 80 grand with him still currently, but wow. I didn't take. We kept doing deals and I didn't take a dollar from it. I lived on my savings while I paid him back because that was the right thing to do.

[Interviewer]

And you know what many investors would say, like, sorry, man, you know, you know, the risk that's involved kind of thing.

[Matt Chick]

100%. I had people l. Legitimate, hey, dude, you knew what the risk was like, you don't need to do that. I go, no, I do, because it was on a handshake. There's no, there's no flipping way I would walk away from that. Not one. Wow. And we still own three houses together that's got another million dollars locked up in it that once we sell them, we'll get them back.

[Interviewer]

Wow. I love stories like it. And then what would you say somebody right now watching this thing? Because I've had a lot in like real estate as well. In your opinion, what would you say is the best way for somebody to start in the space? Would you say like the Airbnb Arbitrage, the investing?

[Matt Chick]

No, dude. I suck with the short term rental rental game. Residential, retail, like residential rentals. I absolutely hate them.

[Interviewer]

And that field is also kind of sailing. I feel like after Covert, it's kind of Going downhill.

[Matt Chick]

I mean, if anybody follows like the big sub two guys and all that stuff, like that's, that's how you buy, that's how you do it. Now, like that the day of putting 20% down on a, you know, a $500,000 house, putting 100 grand down to get 400 or $500 a month in positive cash flow is absolutely ridiculous. Like, nobody should ever do that in my eyes. Now other people are going to tell me I'm crazy. I know a lot of people that do that, but it just doesn't excite me. You know, I, I'm still in a very big place of like, I like creating active income. I'm not necessarily chasing the passive income currently. So I like active income, wholesale fix and flips, novations, that kind of stuff. Our residential retail team, you know, we got 27 pending deals currently right now. So, like, active income is where I'm at because I'm still trying to build.

[Interviewer]

I only recently learned about novations, like last year, and the concept of it is just so fascinating.

[Matt Chick]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You know, because can you explain to the viewers what novation is as well?

[Matt Chick]

Yeah, novation. I mean, it's really just a. A fancy term to say that you're replacing one contract with another. That's it. Like, it's such a beautiful concept. Yeah, it's, it's. You're literally taking your purchase, you know, you have a purchase contract on the house and then, or. And then you have, you know, the ability, like we use an attorney, in fact, document. We're allowed to then list the property, you know, on the mls, find a retail buyer, find that and then create a spread and then invoice for the difference. Right. So we have to invoice for the difference. Once a lender gets involved. It's just unique, dude. It's just a unique beast. We don't do them in Arizona. We only do them in states that we're not licensed in. Our broker really didn't like us doing them here. And because we are licensed real estate agents, like, our broker didn't really love it. So I would either hire another broker to list the house, we wouldn't list the house here ourself, or we just focus. When we were like doing more stuff out of state in Georgia, Florida and Texas.

[Interviewer]

That's powerful. Yeah, no, I really like that. And yeah. And I think the whole, like a recurring engine in generation. I'm getting the sub two guys. One of them I'm getting tomorrow.

[Matt Chick]

Cool.

[Interviewer]

And then I'm coming back for pace Like I think next month as well.

[Matt Chick]

He's a stud dude. I like pace a lot.

[Interviewer]

Again, it's like sometimes it's. I don't know what it is. Maybe I'm just being biased because it's a member of the same faith that I am. But like sometimes like it's people like, like you, like him, where you could just, just sense like this. They don't want to rip people off, they just generally want to help people. Because I was reading a thing when you, because he was doing a thing where you helped the homeless woman like get like a thing. And the comments are like, well, why don't you like just. Why'd you have to show it? I'm like, he's just showing out the possibility of what can be done, you know.

[Matt Chick]

Teach a man to fish, eats forever. Teach a woman how to fish, she eats forever. She never asked to be. She never. You won't get canceled.

[Interviewer]

I fight, I promise.

[Matt Chick]

Yeah, I'm not worried about that. I'm just saying that's the philosophy. He did more for her teaching her how to do that than he could have ever with writing any kind of amount of check.

[Interviewer]

I couldn't agree more. And it's, it's the concept I think which stands by with capitalism at the end of the day because if you know that there's potential and you're not kept. Yeah. And you're not like subjected to be able to reach a certain level, you can actually reach that much potential. I remember coming here in, in the US I don't know if you hear the accent. South Africa.

[Matt Chick]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

But coming year 2017 with my old mission companion from like the, the church and I served a service mission and then I just started seeing like the employment rate was like 3%, but then it's not. The 3% is the fact that if you know Utah's got a very door to door sales industry, everyone knocks those, comes back, does an investment or like a duplex or something like that and like starts building wealth at a super young age. And I think seeing that from like, you know, a foreigner's perspective or an immigrant, it's like, like what the heck? Like what, what's possible here? You know what I'm saying? And then you hear the story that 99 of millionaires, like wealth comes from real estate and you start realizing there's so much potential, but it's about doing the right deals, doing right to people and making sure you're in the right trajectory because you can only easily get rich by scamming people. As well, you know, so integrity comes along. Do you want to add on that as well?

[Matt Chick]

Yeah, take, take the right risk. I always, you know, like we have, we have the, I call it the ten commandments of wholesaling, right? And one of them is it's, it's not a deal till it's a deal. And a lot of people, when they first get into real estate investing, they're trying to force deals. So it's like really know your numbers, know what you, what you know, know what you're capable of. Buy it, right. You know, fix it up, right? Don't over. Don't overrun your rehab, don't overrun your, your holding costs, right? Those are the little things that matter. It's like really just pencil a good deal, right? And then make sure that you execute properly. I think a lot of people get excited about investing in real estate, especially in the flip space. And it, it, it's actually a recipe for disaster in my eyes, right? Because, like, if you're too excited about it, you're trying to force it, you think you can push arv, you think you can push what you're going to sell it for. You think you're going to be the next best sale in the neighborhood. And right now, in the, in the market conditions that we're currently in is just not true. You know, like right Now I'm budgeting 2 to 3 to 5% under what the last sold sale was before I buy a house.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Matt Chick]

So I'm going to come out on the market 10 to 15 grand lower than the last sale because I want to sell my house quick because it's about turns. And then if I can buy it off based off that number, then maybe I get lucky and hit the market and I make an extra ten grand. But, you know, you want to buy off of a. Not a lucky number you want to buy. You want to buy off. I call it a cake number. So there's two numbers, a cake number and a push number. I buy. If my cake number, my push number is what I Blue sky. If we get it, great. I'm excited. We made an extra 10, 15, 20 grand. If we don't, I bought it off my cake number and we still made 50,000.

[Interviewer]

That's powerful. And then would you say right now if somebody were to try and start like a duplex out of these two options that I want to talk about, would you say maybe getting a duplex and then renting one out, living on the other one, or would you say just, I know, Utah, what's Very, very common. There's like basements where people end up like getting a home and then renting out the basement. Would you say those two would be a good way?

[Matt Chick]

I think it's all just lifestyle. Like, is that how you want to do it? Like, sure, like whatever you can. If, if you have the capability of buying a duplex, renting one and renting out the other, great. You know, if that's an area you want to live and you enjoy that and yeah, for sure. You know, or a four plex or whatever you can do. I think you just got to look at where you at and what can you currently do, right. And then you got to analyze what that looks like. What, what are you bankable? You know, do you have W2 income that you're actually bankable? What can you approve for? And then you got to run the math. Right now the cost of money is so freaking high. You know, even if you're a retail, even if you're a retail buyer and you're buying at six and a half, 7% interest rate, your cost of money is pre high. So are you actually going to cash flow that asset or do you have to sit on that asset for the next year and a half, two years to you can refi out into a cheaper money to where you actually start cash flowing? So you got to really look at all the variables, right? And then is that the life you want to live for the next two, three, four, five years? No.

[Interviewer]

That's powerful.

[Matt Chick]

No, I think it's great. You know, my favorite strategy is for people that, like, if you're just a, you know, a normal person that's not getting into real estate investing, but you want to make sure you're acquiring real estate as investments over time, over a lifetime. Let's say you're a W2 employee, you got good income, and, and you want to just be in real estate. Buy a house, living it for a couple years, make it a rental, buy a house, living it for two years, make a rental, you do that for the next five, five, ten years. You got, you know, ten houses. Or you get. Find a way to buy two, two and five, two every year for five years, you got ten homes, ten homes at five, six hundred bucks a month. Cash flow, you're at five, six grand a month. You know, if that excites you. And then over time that becomes a hell of a lot better. Right? You know what I'm saying? Over time it becomes better, you know, you know, 20 years, 25 years, your notes are starting to get paid off or you got appreciation now you can pull money out of your properties, you know, that aren't going to be taxed. Like so then it adds, you know.

[Interviewer]

Then it adds something that's so amazing. And then what's the turnaround in, in flipping? Let's say you, you, you get a, you buy a home right now you want to flip and how many days the turnaround before it ends up like flipping every project.

[Matt Chick]

Every project's different. Like if you, yeah, like if you were to talk like projects that I'm currently looking on is. I want, I want rehab to be somewhere between 45 and 6, 60 days.

[Interviewer]

That's good.

[Matt Chick]

Yeah, I want to, I want to be done in eight weeks. So if we can be done in 60 days and back on the market and I have 30 to 60 days of selling it for 30 to 45 days selling it, it gives me a four month turn to actually have it on the market and rehabbed and then 30 days to sell. So I'm a four to five month hold process.

[Interviewer]

Wow. And. And that's when you get the cash just comes as soon as it's sold.

[Matt Chick]

Right.

[Interviewer]

Okay. And then what would you say is like your first one, you said you made like 15k or 10k on which one? The first flip you did.

[Matt Chick]

Oh, first flip I did was. No, it was a home run. I did like 55 grand on that one. 6, 60, 000, something like that. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Matt Chick]

Yeah, most of them were really good until about 22 and 22. I decided to scale, raised a bunch more money, had 21 projects going at once and it just didn't work out.

[Interviewer]

And then. Are you also in the commercial space?

[Matt Chick]

Not a ton. I'd love to be in it. We, we help people get in a commercial, but we don't flip commercial. So.

[Interviewer]

Commercial. Oh yeah. But isn't the process a bit more unique?

[Matt Chick]

Yeah, for sure. It's different. And what I like about commercial, it's definitely more business. Right. It's more business to business. Right. So. But I just, I haven't flipped commercial. So I, I don't know.

[Interviewer]

And have you, do you have any commercial investments though?

[Matt Chick]

No. Zero. I'd be open to it though. For sure. That'd be a good lane. Yeah. What we're really looking at right now is specs. We're going to do some development specs. We're gonna, we're looking for land like out, out East Queen Creek, you know, Apache Junction. We're looking to do some specs. So I enjoy the flip Game. I. Everything. Everything serves its purpose. But eventually you got to figure out, like, what is it good for? Like, annually, Right. Like, I know guys that are flipping 15 to 20 houses a month, and that's their business, and they're okay with some $15,000 profits, some $50,000 profits. You know, my goal is to make 55 grand a house or I won't. I won't do the deal.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Matt Chick]

So, like, if I can't make 40 to 55, then we just pass on the deal. And that's on an asset class of, you know, 5 to 600,000.

[Interviewer]

That's crazy. And then with that in the flipping range, obviously, every state has got like, its own state laws and permits and stuff. Like, primarily, like, just do that in Arizona, right?

[Matt Chick]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Matt Chick]

Yeah. We don't flip. We flipped in Texas and it was a nightmare. But, you know, we don't flip another state. We wholesale in other states.

[Interviewer]

Probably don't flip in California. That's where it's as well. Yeah.

[Matt Chick]

Not. Not interested. You know, I found dude that, you know, I used to provoking. Yeah, you fell for. No, I'm out.

[Interviewer]

Sorry. Continue.

[Matt Chick]

I. I found probably about three years ago, I have. I am that guy that has shiny object syndrome. I like different businesses. I like different ideas. I'm an idea guy, more of a visionary than an executor. So, like, I enjoy daydreaming about big stuff.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Matt Chick]

And I just found that it just didn't serve me, man. So like about four years, three and a half years ago, I made a decision to just stay laser beam focused on what I'm good at and what I know. And now I just say no to everything else.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Matt Chick]

You know, it takes a lot, especially.

[Interviewer]

Knowing what your personality is. It takes a lot of discipline, you know.

[Matt Chick]

Oh, I had a nail salon. We had a nail salon that we owned. We had like six or seven different businesses. None of them were freaking crushing. They were all just a distraction I. From the thing that would actually make me money. So I just said, screw it, I'm out. Not doing it.

[Interviewer]

No. I love that. And I think, I mean, with this level of success, the trajectory that you've been on, I notice one of the things that most entrepreneurs that are successful is yourself. Have they. There's a mentorship people that like, guided them throughout the world. Did you have that for yourself?

[Matt Chick]

Yeah. I've paid so much for coaching. I'm literally paying. I pay $6,000 a month for coaching right now for three different coaches interest.

[Interviewer]

Do you mind sharing them or yeah.

[Matt Chick]

So Dustin Runyon, Alex Sheplak, and then I have a guy named Coach J.D. okay, so Coach J.D. is in California. Dustin Runyon runs a big real estate team here in Lake Havasu. Just a freaking beast of a man. Big in a development. He's. He's raised, I don't know, million hundreds of millions of dollars in. In money for development as a real estate team that does a ton of transactions. But he was. He really. He really helped me in just focusing clarity and what was important. He believes on taking, you know, work on the person, and the person will develop the business. Right? So we've worked more on the person rather than the.

[Interviewer]

The.

[Matt Chick]

The business, and it just kind of goes. And then Alex Sheplax, he's my marketing coach, and then his wife, Shannon Sheplak, is my health coach. So I pay, you know, I pay a ton for coaching. You know, if you don't know the answer, there's, you know, you can either go figure it out, or you could pay someone that's already been there, right? So, like, you know, high level of accountability around what I want to do. So I just, I. I tend to pay for coaches, and my coaches become my friends, and then I have amazing relationships with them all.

[Interviewer]

I've never, ever interviewed a single person or came across a single person that has not invested in themselves.

[Matt Chick]

Have to, have to. It's the most important money that you'll ever spend in your life.

[Interviewer]

Exactly.

[Matt Chick]

They just. It's a cheat code. I can pay someone. You know, one of them, I pay a thousand dollars a week. Another one, 1250amonth. Another one, I pay like 5 or 600 bucks a month to. But, like, literally there are people that have done it. Like, so why, like, now I just got to go execute it. And that's in a struggle in itself, right? Because if it's not a habit yet, you got to. Especially on the health stuff. Like, if it's not a habit yet, you got to go figure out how to make it a habit. Business is no different. Right. If you're not used to, you know, banging the phones and make 500 calls a day, for you to go do it one day and then go do it for the rest of your life, you got to create that habit. Right? So that's the important thing, important piece.

[Interviewer]

And it's, I think, another thing. I always see it as. As two components to it. One, yes, you're paying them to try and, like you said, cheat code give you the path that can lead to your success, but also helping you Avoid the mistakes that they did.

[Matt Chick]

100.

[Interviewer]

And then number two, it's also, you're holding yourself accountable. Now that I've paid you, you're gonna have to act on it. Because how many things have I gotten for free that I'm like, I just put aside? Because for free you don't value it as much. But if you pay, you're like, well, I pay you a thousand bucks. How am I to get my thousand bucks worth of what it is? You know, so that's how I always see it. And I do the same thing right now. Like I, I go to many networking events. I, I find ways to try and find myself in the right room and.

[Matt Chick]

Ask questions so important.

[Interviewer]

It's, it's everything.

[Matt Chick]

I've paid thousand bucks for dinners because I knew people that were going to be there that I wanted to be involved with. I've paid thousands of dollars to go to events, but I was purposeful. Figure out who's going to be in the room and then why do I want to be connected to that person then I was purposeful in making sure I connected with them when I was there. Like being strategic is not a bad idea.

[Interviewer]

I love it, love it so much. I mean, from obviously going to selling about like 40 homes in your first year to leading one of Arizona's fastest growing teams, what would you say are those habits that change from when you started to where you at right now?

[Matt Chick]

The habits, they're all this, they're all the same, right? So like it's, it's work it like it's a job every day. Like I work this like it's a job for me, right. Even though I'm my own boss, I show up and I, and I do the work that's supposed to be done to make sure I have what we have. Right. So. But the number one thing to focus on ever when you're building a real estate team is recruiting. So the number one thing you should always do is always be recruiting. And I've had ebbs and flows in that. Like right now my real estate team's smaller than it's been in a while because I took my foot off of recruiting, right. So today, you know, I don't know, last week recommitted to recruiting and got a pipeline of four or five agents that are thinking about coming on board. So the work works, right? It's just do the same thing over and over. That something that's tough for me, that it might be tough for a lot of people is consistency in the thing that Breeds you the result. Right. It's, it's always being willing to do the same thing over and over. Entrepreneurship is actually really boring when you work for yourself. It's actually very boring because the boring things are what works. Right? So like, and for guys, I like excitement. Like I thought use chaos used to serve me, but chaos was ruining my results. Right. The, the truth is the, the only thing that matters is doing the activity on a daily basis that breeds the result that you want.

[Interviewer]

Exactly right.

[Matt Chick]

So if I know that recruiting feeds my business and I need 40 or 50 agents to get back to 100 million in production, then I gotta go recruit every day. That means send 20 face talking messages to agents congratulating them on closings, sending text messages, calling the school list. That means I have to go do those activities or I gotta hire someone to do those activities for me. Right. So it's just being a real estate agent is no different. Being an investor is no different. If you want to be a real estate agent, it's 20 connects a day. Go talk to 20 people a day for the rest of your freaking life. For the rest of your life. As long as you're an agent, it's 20 people today. That's the standard.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Matt Chick]

You know, if you want to, if you want to be an investor, then I would talk to 20 real estate agents a day and see if you can find deals. That's how I would network for the deals. Or you got to go spend money to find deals or you got a cold call or doorknock, whatever the one thing is, or two things are that you're going to go do. You got to do that for the rest of your life and you got to commit to it.

[Interviewer]

I love that. I love that so much. And, but the problem that lies on this whole thing is the fact that yes, you did admit and say that entrepreneur can get boring. What happens? I don't, you know, you know Robert Kiyosaki's cash flow, Quite the employee. Small business, big business investor is the fact that when people go from E to S, they get so like in love with the idea of doing everything because there's a lack of trust and delegating. Like I want to do, I want to do, I want to do. Which could lead to burnout also. It could lead to stagnation, but also leads to the fact that you just think that no one is good enough to do what you can do. And to some degree it's because also people feel like they're investing so much in their own businesses. That they feel like people can't be able to do that level. Have you ever struggled with that before?

[Matt Chick]

No.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Matt Chick]

No. I'm the guy that delegates everything. I have my old business partner. My old business partner explained me perfectly. I'm really good at step one. I'm good at getting the relationship. I'm good at creating the opportunity. I'm good at, you know, step one, and then step two through 99. I need someone else to do. That's just who I am. This is who I am. So, like, you know, my partner today, he carries a lot of the heavy lifting with the retail side and production and all that. My job is to go create opportunities, invest in real estate, raise capital, and agent recruiting.

[Interviewer]

Right?

[Matt Chick]

So we just stay in our lanes. But you, you have to know yourself well enough. I didn't know myself well enough to do that. You know what I'm saying? Does that make sense? So, like, you have to know yourself well enough. And it's explained it and it describes me perfectly. That's why I don't take offense to it. I don't like if someone goes, are you good at executing? No, I'm not. I'm really good at building relationships. I'm good at getting stuff done. At DEFCON 5, if it's at a point that it has to get done or it's going to blow something up, I'll get it done. But until it's DEFCON 5, I suck at getting it done.

[Interviewer]

Interesting. Now, and what's the hardest part about recruiting the right people? Because recruiting is. I mean, it's not that hard. Get an ad out, you get a few people there, but the right people.

[Matt Chick]

That see your vision, culture is everything. And then holding standards, right? You got to be able to hold standards and cultures, everything, right? So we have. We have really A4 standards on our real estate. I mean, it's 20 connects a day. Show up to 90 of everything. Put on, clear your tasks every day. And the last one I have to cuss, but it's. Don't be an asshole, okay? And what that really means is have a spirit of contributions. And this. I. I stole this from Dustin Runyon and how he runs his real estate team. Those are literally his standards. The only one that he doesn't have is tasks done daily. I have one that year. All your tasks have to be done daily. And the spirit of contribution basically means, hey, in the beginning, people are going to pour into you. When you have a question someone's going to answer, sooner or later, you're going to have the answer to a question that someone else has, you're expected to give that answer. This isn't like, we're here as a community and help each other to get where we want to go. And if that's not who you are to your core, then we're just not going to be the right fit because we give everything away for free. I'll help anybody, anytime. Don't care. Like, I don't. Like. I have a couple of coaching clients now, you know, that, that pay me. I invite them to the team. Stuff I invite, you know, like, not everything has to be paid for. There's a lot of stuff people get for free just from being in our world.

[Interviewer]

No, and that's. That's so true. I couldn't agree more. Culture makes it or breaks, like a whole team. And you've seen cultures that are just a little toxic. You've seen cultures that are super complacent where people don't see a vision. You see people that, like, I just want to clock in and clock out as well, because you don't want to really be there. And are your sales reps. Is it like a commission thing?

[Matt Chick]

All of it, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Matt Chick]

So we have about 12 people on staff that we pay, and then the rest are 10, 99 contractors. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Matt Chick]

Which is also hard in itself. It's actually easier to pay someone. And most people work better when you're paying them as an employee. I, I have a. I have a freaking crazy concept of like 100% payroll real estate agent team where everybody is on salary. And I think that we could, we could do more business because then you, you hold them accountable to the standard because you're paying them to do it. And most people would probably do it easier than they would do it for themselves. And I could pay them probably 30% less of what they would make as a regular agent. Just doing it on their own. Most people operate better as an employee. It's very rare to find someone that can operate to. To that. To a standard. At least I haven't found it. You know, it takes. You know, you're.

[Interviewer]

Gonna.

[Matt Chick]

Out of 10, you're gonna find two or three, and you try to hope to God you keep the two or three. That's what it is.

[Interviewer]

How's retention in your side?

[Matt Chick]

We have an attrition rate of 30%.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Matt Chick]

Yeah. Which we need to fix. It's. It's industry standard for a real estate team.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Matt Chick]

But like, I would like it to be a lot less. And that's going to come down to culture. It's also going to come down to opportunities and that falls on us. Right. The bigger we can create the team, the more opportunities we can give agents, the bigger they could see a vision within staying. And those are our burdens. Right. We have to make it so big that they never see themselves going anywhere.

[Interviewer]

Exactly. And also incentives and stuff like that. Right. And seeing like, hey, listen, if I reach a certain target, this, this is what's going to be able to be there as well. 100% real estate is such a, it's a cycle, you know, so coming with teams, coming, coming and going is like, oh yeah, let's try that, let's try that kind of thing.

[Matt Chick]

Yeah. And most teams are a race to the bottom. Like commission splits, you know, brokerages are racing the flat fees or, you know, most of it's a race to the bottom on how cheap someone could be with you, you know, but we don't prescribe to that.

[Interviewer]

And what do they do? Do they just do cold calls or they find.

[Matt Chick]

No, we have five legion levers that we focus on sphere, social media, open houses, leads and then agent referrals. Okay, Those are our five leads, lead levers.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Matt Chick]

Yeah. Super, super laser being focused on what we do. Well, if someone comes in and plugs in and do what we tell them, they'll. They'll make money, money guaranteed.

[Interviewer]

And what would you say is a, is good in, in that field in making money per year?

[Matt Chick]

Oh, I mean good. Like I know agents making a half a million six hundred thousand dollars a year.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Matt Chick]

Yeah. Well, I would say average agent, they all want to make six figures. Right. That's the big. Anytime you interview a real estate agent, they want to make six figures is what it is. But if you, if you get 20 connects a day, you'll make six figures for sure.

[Interviewer]

And I think that's one thing I like as well about real estate is that it's been consistent over the years and like what, what the standard expectation is because with all these other industries, I was in the solar industry where it was like slightly more than six figures, but then it went. It's one of the booms and kind of go up and down. But like insurance and like real estate is one of the most consistent stuff over years and over time as well. And also the fact that I noticed that you strive to help a lot of entrepreneurs also like, you know, make six figures is you're giving a realistic expectation rather than saying you're first. So you can make like $30 million.

[Matt Chick]

Like no, I tell Everybody, like anytime someone says, hey, I want to make 100 grand, I tell them straight up. I go, I don't know. I don't know. A bunch of businesses, you can make 100 grand part time.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Matt Chick]

So if you're not willing to work 40 or 50 hours a week, then let's just get rid of the 100 grand goal. Like if you want, if you only want to work 20 hours a week, then it's going to be, you know, you probably go make 40, 50,000. You know. Now I know people that have done it that have made multiple six figures. I know a good buddy of mine worked at the post office and he was doing 40 deals a year that might be wrong, so don't quote me on that, but he was making well over in the six figures and running a real estate team and working at the post office. Guy was just an animal. Just a freaking animal.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Matt Chick]

Love high energy, super fit dude is just an animal.

[Interviewer]

That's an anomaly though. It's not a very common thing. It's not at all.

[Matt Chick]

No, not at all.

[Interviewer]

What's the most painful investment that you've ever made and what did it teach you? Oh, you actually, I think you may have mentioned that the one you lost is that after Covid, but is that the most painful one?

[Matt Chick]

No, I, I had. If we're talking deals, like investment deal.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Matt Chick]

I would say I had, I had a deal that I bought. We call them relationship deals. I was trying to get in relationship with a guy. It was a deal that I typically don't buy sight unseen. So what I did is he, he had a house, I got, I underwrote it. I didn't really necessarily love it. I asked him a bunch of questions on it and I ended up saying, hey, dude, I'll buy this, I'll take this off your hands. But I want, I want to see everything that you get. Like, I want to be a legit buyer for you. So I bought it sight unseen. He told me I couldn't walk it and I knew like, I shouldn't have done that. Anyways, I bought the house. Rehab was only supposed to be 50,000. That's what I was told that it was going to be. Ended up getting red tagged by the city. The permit, the, the, the addition that was on, it wasn't permitted. They made me rip it off, re redo it. So I ended up having to tear off like 600 square feet of this house permanent. Put 600 square feet on, do a full rehab. Cost me 145, 000 bucks when it was supposed to be 50 grand. So I was 100 grand over budget.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Matt Chick]

Sold the house and then I lost $142,000 on one project.

[Interviewer]

I'm a visual learner, you know what I'm saying? So I paint pics every time people are talking. And right now that's like, oh my gosh.

[Matt Chick]

Lighting a bag of money.

[Interviewer]

I get antidepressants for that.

[Matt Chick]

Yeah, it's horrible. It's horrible.

[Interviewer]

Oh, yeah. And I think it's, it's important because then you, you learn from these mistakes.

[Matt Chick]

And I don't do it.

[Interviewer]

One thing I can't stand as entrepreneurs that just have these success rates and Success stories are 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 all the time. Because when something does happen, when you're not prepared for it as well. But that was a lesson. Do you think it has helped you see things a little differently now?

[Matt Chick]

I, I will say no. If I can't walk it. If I, if this, you gotta buy a sightsee and I just, I don't trust it anymore. And there's a lot of guys that do and they're willing to take the risk. I'm just not that guy. If I can't walk it. Cool. Send it to someone else.

[Interviewer]

So you're risk averse? Pretty much, yeah.

[Matt Chick]

I'm so the way I underwrite deals now is I disqualify them. If I can't disqualify it, then it's a deal. I literally look at every deal on why it's not a deal. Now every deal. I don't even try to make it a deal. My only goal is to make it not a deal. And then if it's not, if I can't do that, it's probably a deal.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Matt Chick]

So I literally tear the deal apart.

[Interviewer]

And do you also focus on, on the, on the residential side? Do you focus on the, the high end homes like the, in the high millions We've done.

[Matt Chick]

Million and a half is our biggest.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Matt Chick]

Yeah, a million and a half. I would. It just takes so much more capital.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Matt Chick]

You just place in way more money. Your, your rehabs are bigger now. You're like 2, 3, 400,000 in rehab. Your holding costs are 10, 15 grand a month per project. This takes a lot more capital. So just the risk reward for me, and I haven't seen it work out where I'm making multiple six figures on the deal. Like if I'm putting up a half a million bucks of capital, you know, like I'd like to see at least a return of 150 to 200 grand. And I have found that they could be $100,000 rips or they could be $75,000 rips. So like for me it's. I'd rather go do two at 500,000.

[Interviewer]

Wow. Yeah, that makes, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

[Matt Chick]

This is longer projects, right? You start getting a 3,504,000 square foot house, you're reconfiguring it. You're, you know, you're doing a bunch of stuff, you know, and then you're dealing with a different, you're different with a buyer, a different buyer that has a different attention to detail. So now it's got to be meticulous and it's got to be perfect, which is fine. Like I enjoy giving that kind of product, but there's no room for error at that point.

[Interviewer]

And then what's the ROI for an investor that invests in you in like these projects? Like what can, what's a return on investment?

[Matt Chick]

10%.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Matt Chick]

Yeah, they get good. Yeah. I guarantee 10% of return for anybody that places money with me. I haven't needed money in a long time. So like I, I don't necessarily raise capital much anymore. But like if someone wants to get on interval projects because we align, like if I like them, you know, if like it's a, like I got one guy right now that just generally wants to just get in the game. He's got about 100,000 bucks and I'll do a deal with it him and I'll give him 20% of whatever we make. I probably won't pay him 10%. I'll give him 20% of the profit on the deal just because.

[Interviewer]

Wow. And would you say what's the turnaround for that if it does?

[Matt Chick]

Six months? I tell everybody six months.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Matt Chick]

So if he's willing to put up a 100, I'll, I'll probably return 20 grand to him in six months, which is phenomenal.

[Interviewer]

Where else?

[Matt Chick]

It's a no brainer.

[Interviewer]

Where else? I mean, nowhere. I'm trying to even think of like volatile stock market. I'm trying to think of bonds. Yeah, bonds guaranteed thing right now, but that's still like what, 4%, 5%? Depending on what it is. And that's also like in a 12 month span, like it's, it's ridiculous. That's, that's amazing. 20 on that.

[Matt Chick]

It's huge.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Matt Chick]

So it just depends, you know. I only do that for people that are like coming into my world though. Like I don't it, like, it's rare that I need a bunch of money anymore. So it's, I, you know, I just don't. I've had, I have enough capital raised. I'll never scale back to 20 projects.

[Interviewer]

What's the highest you've gotten for one investor?

[Matt Chick]

Three and a half million.

[Interviewer]

Where the heck do you get these investors? I, I need, I need to change my circle.

[Matt Chick]

Yeah, yeah. One time I had three and a half million out on one guy. He's actually my business partner now. So that's why I say I don't need a bunch of money anymore. I brought. So when things got bad, he was the guy that took 100% of the hit. We were partnering before that, but when he, when he goes, I'm gonna take 100 of the hit. Like, he, he could have easily said, no, I want all my money, and I would have gone. I would have had, like, I would, he would have pulled it would have taken every ounce of dollar that I had in the bank to make it right. So when he did that, it solidified. Like, I'll do whatever he ever needs. Genuine friend to this day, I'd go to war for him. I'd protect his family like he was, they were mine. You know, I'd show up and I'd show up and take on hell.

[Interviewer]

That's this interview in. So while I hardly even looked at the questions, let's start the interview.

[Matt Chick]

No, like, but that's the relationships we're looking for in life, isn't it? That's what it's all about. Like, if we're looking for genuine relationships that we care about others, like, I mean, that's why we're here.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And I, I can, I like that as well. Because when you build relationships with people, it's just, it has a different feel. And especially in this conniving and evil world, you cherish and value it so much because you realize, wow, like, you really are very unique and anomaly. And I go and do anything for you, for you as well. So I, I, I'm glad you found those. I'm glad you saw on yourself. And what advice would you give people to try and get those genuine relationships?

[Matt Chick]

Oh, you have to be genuine. Like, vulnerability is everything. You have to be genuine. You have to be real, you have to be about it. Like, it's so, it's crazy. Like, I don't, I don't even know how much more time we have. But, like, for me, I come from a background of, of like, where my Family were my brothers. It was people that I was doing illegal stuff with, people that I was, you know, running life differently. So, like, you, like, had a legit bond. You would literally go to war for each other, right? You. If one dude was in a fight, you all were in a fight. And I hate to relate that to this, but it's, it's that vulnerability, that sacrifice, even in today's, like, so that's how I value my relationship. Am I willing to go put my life on the line for someone else? And if it is, that's a relationship that I, that I care about. But it only comes by being authentic and vulnerable and, and, and real and having authentic conversations. It's not about me winning on him and him winning on me. It's about how can we help each other win and level up and get where we want to go. It's a true brotherhood, Right? So it's about that brotherhood that I look for. So. And if I can't have that, then I'm not about it. Like, I don't. I suck at small talk. Like, I, like, I just want genuine relationships, so I, I find myself going deeper in conversation faster, and then if it just doesn't match, it doesn't match. And we can be acquaintances and love each other and, you know, but. But it doesn't, you know, but we just would never be close, Right? And as men, we're looking for genuine, genuine relationships that are close. Because a lot of, A lot of times as men, we feel like we have to have this facade, but that's not true.

[Interviewer]

Like, we, you know, it was so much of ego. Yeah. I got to show up to be something I'm not. I got to be able to try and say, the cars that I can't even afford, like, to try and live a lifestyle that, like, you know, try and, like, portray something that, you know. It's just.

[Matt Chick]

I drive a 98 Silverado, right? And people make fun of me all the time. I have one buddy goes, you're the richest, bro. He goes, you're the brokest rich dude I know. It's the greatest compliment in the world. It's the greatest guy. My overhead at my house is ridiculously low. People laugh like, I just live. I, I, I, I live a simple life, man. I enjoy that. I know what it's like to Warren Buffett office. Oh, yeah.

[Interviewer]

So, like, I don't think you can come, like, you know what I'm saying? He's the only person I can say, beats you.

[Matt Chick]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Has these three bedrooms.

[Matt Chick]

I know that's true. I got a nice house. Yeah, that's true. But that's, but, but it's guys like that that I learned from, man. It's guys like that. Like, I don't want to be the flashy guy. I never have been. I just want to be myself, show up, be me, and then whoever that resonates with, I'm happy with. And if it doesn't resonate, I'm okay with that.

[Interviewer]

So, Matt, every time I conclude an awesome. Ask all my guests, this one thing is the last and final one, because I say the code to winning insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow. In your definition, what does the term winning mean for you?

[Matt Chick]

First thing that comes to my mind is relationship with God. But I don't, you know, I'm not like, winning in life is having a relationship with God and knowing that your time here is not forever. So just get right with him. So when you're done, you're done, and you're going to the right spot. But then I would, then I would. If I was talking like a worldly winning, I think the relentless pursuit of something that, that excites you. Like, I don't, I don't think if. I don't necessarily know if it's about achieving or monetary value. It's something worth living for on a daily basis, something worth creating relationships, family, being productive in society, a business that, that provides the lifestyle that you want. You know, it's about, it's about living with purpose and never losing sight of that purpose. Having something to live for that's greater than yourself.

[Interviewer]

Powerful. Wow. If you could let our viewers know where they could get a hold of you if they want to try and get in the coaching program on your courses and like Instagram, handle social media, whatever it may be. And I'll leave the description. I'll leave titles on the description description section as well.

[Matt Chick]

Regarding Instagram, I am Matt Chick. Facebook Matt Chick. Those are going to be the easiest ways to. To find me. I suck at all the other platforms. Still figuring that out. But Instagram's phenomenal. Or Facebook, you know, Matt Chick or I am Matt Chick on Instagram.

[Interviewer]

Awesome stuff. The code, waiting insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow. The man, the myth, the very legend himself, Mad Chick, baby. Let's go.

[Matt Chick]

That was fun, baby. That was fun, dude. I loved it. Thanks for having me.

[Interviewer]

It.