B (4:35)

Yeah, no, that's awesome. And for, though, for Our viewers that are very curious in the, in the field that you were in, can you kind of elaborate a bit more within the industry that you were in?

A (4:46)

Absolutely. So yeah, our business, you know, we, we're in the Medicare, health insurance, life insurance world. So broadly it would be considered the life and health insurance world more niche than that. We were in the senior market, so we did focus on people typically that were 65 plus, although we would help people that were younger than that. But that was where we focused our efforts and we really wanted to be in the Medicare education space. There's all these people that are turning 65 or they're getting, they're becoming disabled for some reason and they get Medicare. And when they get Medicare, that's not Medicaid. Medicaid is based on income. Medicare is based on. I've worked and now I either through disability or age rate Medicare, but they have no idea how it works. And so some of them either think that it pays for 100% of your health care or they think that they. Or they just have no idea. Right. And so what we do is we either dispelling the myth that it pays for 100% because it doesn't pay for 100%, it has an unlimited 20% CO insurance with it, and then it has no, no maximum out of pocket. So basically somebody that had, was on Medicare, that had a million dollars in expenses, could have a $200,000 bill. Well, they need to know that because that's a, that's a very expensive concept, especially for, you know, elderly, retired people that are probably on a fixed income.

B (6:03)

Exactly.

A (6:03)

So we based our business around that problem. Originally that was the primary problem we were trying to solve is like, how can we find these people, educate them on plans, educate them on their options, and what will happen if they don't choose an option and then help them through choosing what the plan was. That's all it was. It wasn't like trying to sell someone a product they didn't need. They were going to get something regardless. We were just trying to be the people that educated them appropriately. And you know, the reason we were able to get a high multiple of EBITDA and sell the business is because we, we developed systems and processes, high quality marketing, and we were able to prove over long periods of time that we could scale that business. So when someone wants to come in and buy your business, one thing they want to know is, you know, they're buying at an EBITDA multiple. And so let's say they're buying at 11x earnings or 11x, you know, EBITDA. And they might be trading at 15x, so they're arbitraging that 4x. But one of the other ways they make a lot of money is buying an entity that's going to grow. Because if, if I buy an entity at 11x and it grows 20% a year net for 5 years, it's actually now making double what I bought it for. So it's almost like I bought it for 5 1/2 x.

B (7:21)

Makes perfect sense.

A (7:22)

So that's what they're, that's what they want. They want scalable, they want difficult to replace. They also want diversification of either marketing channels or products or geography. Like, so that kind of recession proofs them from like, oh, this area got hit really hard, or this type of marketing doesn't work anymore. Now this is not legal or something like that. So we got that because we had unique value propositions in the marketplace.

B (7:49)

No, I love that. And you know, it's crazy when you speak about all this thing. I was in Los Angeles yesterday also speaking to another person who sold their company 50 million. But when I was just on my way here, just thinking about there's multiple different founders historically that you look, have actually made the perfect exit. And you look at those that should have done it a little sooner. I'm gonna make an example. When I say that, I'll look at the MySpace. You know, I'm old enough to remember MySpace. And you look at Blockbuster before it got taken out by, you know, Netflix and all that. And then sometimes you look at situations such as Instagram that got an exit. But it may have seemed like a good deal at that point in time, but we saw the fruition and the rewards and how it is right now. It's almost like 687 times more valuable than back then as well. Absolutely. My, my question to you that. Do you feel like that 11x was the perfect exit for you?

A (8:42)

I think that there was a. There was, there was good timing. If you look at it from the angle that in the first 18 months we doubled our EBITDA, then technically they also got a really good deal because we grew fast enough. But there are no givens. So, like, it's hard to. It's hard to sell and like regret anything, you know, I mean, one, you know, that's such a. It would be such a kind of a goofy thing to do, I guess, like knowing, like how well we did. Right. You know, there's always more, but that's the whole point of Selling, like, if it was a given that you're going to grow, you know, forever, then you just never sell. Right.

B (9:20)

100%.

A (9:21)

And so it's all about locking in some level of success, taking some risk off the table. I was fortunate that we found a partner that would do 51, 49. I think that, you know, for me has worked out really well so far because I'm able to stay engaged. I feel like I still have a strong ownership structure. They have. Because we've been delivering, they leave us alone for the most part and just let us kind of run the business. As long as we're not doing anything illegal and we're growing fast, they're just kind of like, keep doing what you're doing. So that's been good. But the. But, you know, to your point, some people do, you know, time it perfect. My sale was mostly motivated on my side by the fear of being the blockbuster or one of those examples where you missed the mark, you know, now, you know, I do think our industry will have another uptick where the earn the earnings multiples will be good. Will be good. They're still good right now, but will peak again to where I was at. But I do think I did sell it. Kind of a temporary peak.

B (10:27)

No. I love that. The question I wanted to ask, obviously, being a Marine veteran right now, what are the experiences and lessons that you learned that you applied to being an entrepreneur and achieve the success that you gained?

A (10:41)

So there's a couple things that, you know, one. One, when I had jobs before I was in the Marine Corps, which were all teenage jobs back then, I would. If there was a music festival I wanted to go to and they would let me off, I'd quit. Right. So there was no. It wasn't. I wasn't a hard worker when I was there because I've always felt like I was a hard worker, but there was no, like, consistency. And the Marine Corps, you don't. You can't quit. That's not like an option. You're enlisted. You have to stay. Right. And so I think it created a structure for eight years where there is no world where I can't keep showing up. And so it put me into this groove and this momentum where even though I wasn't completely fulfilled in what I was doing there, I mean, there's certainly benefits to it, but it was. It was good in that aspect that it put me in a rhythm where the next time I had a career, it was this. And there was no giving up. There wasn't like this, oh, I'll just try something else. It was like, no, stay the course, stay the course, stay the course. So I think that programming was really good. There's, there's, it's. The Marine Corps especially early on, is very much about destroying mental limits. And so even in business throughout, you know, me coming, you know, past the Marine Corps, I think I stayed in that path of like, you know, find them, find a ceiling of what you think you can do and blow past it over and over again. And that's been a very big, rewarding experience. I think that started in the Marine Corps really. And probably the last, last thing I would say is attention to detail. I was in an operations role in the Marine Corps and I had a lot of leaders that would fine, tooth comb everything we were creating or any, any report we were building or anything like that. And they were, they made me have very good attention to detail. I think it helped with my memory. It helped me not, you know, not mess things up or miss big things. And I think that helped me be more efficient over time. So I think those are probably the three biggest things for me that really very, very powerful.

B (12:43)

And right now, if there's a founder out there, probably like six, seven years in, looking for a potential way for an exit as well, what advice would you give them right now to prepare for that specific exit?

A (12:56)

Yeah, the big ones are key, man, dependency. You know, there's a lot of people that talk about, you know, being SaaS enabled helps you get a higher multiple. I don't necessarily think that is true anymore. So I would almost kind of warn against spending too much time on that. Especially if you think you're going to like develop some sort of simple SaaS product and it's going to somehow add to your multiple. Of course it depends on the industry. But if I was looking to sell, I would be reading books and there's a lot of these guys out there that, that talk about it, but I'd read these books about things like compound annual growth rate, deal structure, what EBITDA multiples should be for different industries, like where they should be, key man dependency, things that mergers and acquisitions attorneys look for. I'd read about quality of earnings statements and I'd get my financials in order. I'd read about add backs. So if I had with, with ebitda, when they're calculating it, there are things that you as a sole business owner will run through your business that after someone buys your business, you're not going to run through there anymore. Well, that's an add back into your EBITDA so you can increase your ebitda. And to some people like, that all might sound obvious, but as you're going through it and you're looking at all these acronyms and things, the more of that, you know, the more you can. You can, you know, get. And I would definitely hire an attorney in that process that has been through multiple business acquisitions, ideally at least, or somewhere in your space, but at least has been through business acquisitions so that they're very familiar with. I was very happy. I had a great attorney. Just on my deal alone, he made over $100,000 in. Worth every penny. Like, you know, the amount of paperwork that he was able to do and the amount of risk he was able to educate me on in the process and advocate for me. Having. Having that is awesome. And potentially even some sort of tax attorney ahead of time. You know, there's. There's certainly some tax things you could do that I did not. So I can't give advice that I did because really, I didn't prepare for it in that way. Had I had I prepared ahead of time, I would have probably tried to maximize depreciation on certain things in my big tax year. But of course, it's a lot of capital gains, so. And I'm not an accountant on that front, but I would certainly look to, you know, a tax attorney that is well versed in acquisitions and capital gains tax and how you could avoid some. But be careful of the crazy things that get people audited, too, because there's. There's some recommendations that are pretty wild out there as well.

B (15:38)

You know, the reason I'm enjoying this is obviously I studied financial economics. So the terminology using is something that we had to use in, like, you know, accounting and especially in economics, and we use the Bloomberg terminal. I did my internship in New York as well, and I think that's why I'm also enjoying this, because every time I like the stuff you speak about is the stuff I listen to. And I listen to her Mosey or Cody Sanchez or I often. Just the problem right now. I feel like with social media, there's a lot of the gurus that just talk about, go do a good job, and I'm this rich.

A (16:12)

Just do it.

B (16:13)

There's an Aston Martin. How did you get this Aston Martin? You know, like, I just. I often like them. The practical things, how you break it down, how it's explained.

A (16:22)

I think it's why Alex did so well. You know, I mean, he just basically said, why is everybody just talking about all the hard stuff. There's plenty of motivational speakers, you know, and he went out and did that. And it's kind of funny because I was prying through information one bit at a time to learn most. Not that I know everything Alex does. He's a brilliant guy. But when I would read his books now I'd be like, where were you 10 years ago? Because this was the blueprint. I was having a piece a little from this guy and a little from this guy and a little from. And you can do that too. And that. And I still do that. But Alex, he just laid it all out there.

B (16:56)

He explains it so simple. And you know, it doesn't complicate it because I was even at the hundred million dollar models, like kind of crash and the release before I got my book. But like, even the leads and stuff, that's what I've been using to try and like, you know, get help people to sell my tickets in terms of affiliate. All these different stuff. It's like he simplifies it. And I feel like right now with gurus just talk about how rich they are rather than explaining how rich they become. And it's like, that's not the entire

A (17:22)

purpose, you know, And I think that what they're doing worked in the original Tai Lopez days, probably some of the early Grant Cardone stuff. And the thing is, I don't fault those guys that did, did that then because it worked. But now some of the people that are just trying to replicate what they did 10, 12 years ago, you know, 8, 10, 12 years ago, it's kind of like, come on, buddy, like, you got to do something different, do something new, bring something else to the table. And Alex, Cody, Sanchez, I think those, those people are, are doing that. And there is like a new, fresh group of people and the needle moves. It's harder over time, you know, you know, there's, there's just no shortage of people wanting to put content on the Internet. So you have to have the attractive character, be charismatic, but also bring high quality information and be very consistent. Yeah, you know, and, and that's. It almost requires all of that now to have a breakthrough in just general, like organic content creation.

B (18:15)

And are you currently in content creation as well?

A (18:17)

We do content creation. We have, we have our niche audience. And so our content creation is really geared towards keeping them grow, keeping them engaged and then slightly grow and absorbing. We're never, we're not, we haven't taken a focus of like trying to grow into a large audience. You know, like, that's Kind of diverse because we feel like the content we put out, while some of it could be broader, a lot of it is very specific to, into the financial services industry or, you know, life and health insurance or, or Medicare, that kind of stuff. And so we don't want to like go overly broad and then they get inundated with that information and it hurt us algorithmically where they're like, what is he talking about? Medicare all the time? And so we've kind of focused on our niche. And I do think it's important though for people to understand that maybe that's one of the only ways to be successful in content creation is really find your niche and hone in on that niche. And you can, with 10,000 followers on Instagram, you can actually do well if they're a high quality, niche specific group of people. Whereas, you know, used to, it was like, oh, I have to have a million followers. Well, why, like, why are there a million people that, you know, and, and I'm not hating on that. You can't like, of course, like, you know, some of the broader topics like you know, the Grant Cardone's and the Tony Robbins and Alex Hormozi, those are broad topics. And so casting a wide net and finding the ideal audience is solid. But if somebody's out there and they've been like, I've been producing so much content and it's the same framework and I'm not getting anywhere, maybe really master a niche and talk about that niche all the time.

B (19:55)

Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. And I think that's what's been happening in this specific field because sometimes people are jumping in different kind of fields because I, I listen to. I actually like try and be very specific as well personally with my niche. So what I've been doing, I was looking at people like Patrick Bet David. I'm like, okay. I really like the suit thing he does. You know, I want to try and like kind of go towards that. I'm like, okay, I like business entrepreneurship, but I also want to diversify like with people that have got like a military experience. Because I realize people just genuinely like, I have a big patriotic like base that like from Utah and stuff that people like just love people that have so served and you know, you know, I've done their part as well. But I feel tying that down is. It's also sometimes hard because the, the stuff you least expect because I mean, I was flagged a few times on YouTube because people like, at first I was going for quantity rather than Being very specific with like the quality as well. Because people would talk about how they make this, but there really is no substantial evidence and like, in their remarks of how they made something specific. You know, it's like, I am this wealthy. I'm this wealthy. I just went to go do some sales. I got this amount. And then YouTube just flags it. I'm like, why is this flag. There's no copyright. And it's like misleading information. I'm like, you know, so, yeah, I

A (21:13)

didn't know they were flagging for that. Like, that's, that's, that is interesting because, I mean, there's definitely a lot of it. You know, like we were talking about some people before we, you know, we're recording in that they just say things and it's like, how, what's, what's. What do you do? You know, I. And, and that's where the, the term grifter comes from. And sometimes that gets thrown at people that I don't think earn that title. Like, I, I've met Grant several times and invested in cardone capital and respect the guy. And I see people call Grant a grifter and I'm like, Grant's actually built a. He's like One of the OGs that's built a real business around this stuff.

B (21:47)

Like, I was defending him last night as well. Glad you mentioned.

A (21:49)

I mean, he's built, you know, he's, he's got the, the huge card on capital concept, the card on ventures. You could, you can go in and decide if you wanted to knock on the merit of the business. Like, I don't like this aspect of the business. If you wanted to. I don't find hating on people especially helpful, but at all. But Grant is, he's absolutely built a solid business and is real. So, like, anyway, so that term gets thrown around to the wrong people, but there are some people that kind of do deserve it. Exactly.

B (22:18)

And I think that's why, you know, the problem. Sometimes you get a lot of these social media media people that are always trying to call people out, but it's like their entire job and purpose. So it's like sometimes you're talking to the wrong people. You know, I'm not going to call out social media platforms that do that, but like, it's the same thing. I'm like, I used to watch grant before YouTube was even a big thing back, back in the day. You know, I attend. I attended the last 10x conference here, right here in Vegas. I've attended the one last year also. And you know, in Florida and many as well. That's one of the people I respect the most because he's been very consistent throughout his tenure. All right. I wanted to figure out on, on your end, if somebody out there is watching and maybe they're in a, they want to try and jump into something in 20, 26, a business or, or something that you feel like it may have a higher trajectory, what advice or what do you think is the next big thing?

A (23:07)

Yeah, so there's a lot of quick ways to make money that are, that are talked about. And so a lot of them center around an entire industry. So obviously AI is something that gets brought up a lot. Right. But I think where a lot of people are making quick money isn't necessarily where the long steady money is. So the quick money is in like selling AI content production to small businesses is one thing that I see happen a lot. And it's, it's, it's a high margin, really low value business. And unfortunately the business owners, for instance, are, are paying for it because they don't realize how much little there is going on there. Right. And I'm, and I'm, I'm not hating on it. I have friends that are doing it, that are making good money at it. But I don't think it would be long before, you know, other people come in and they're like, well, I'll do it this cheap and I'll do it this cheap and it'll dwindle the margin down. And I kind of equate that to like, if you're around when the first flat screen TVs came out, I'd go to Circuit City as a kid and there'd be a $15,000 flat TV and you thought you were in the Jetsons or something. And you know, fast forward to now. You can buy a 75 inch TCL Roku TV for like 800 bucks or something, right. So that over time it's like, I can make it for this, I can make it for this. And so you, you want, if you're looking for longevity, you, you look at what do if you're going to sell a business and maybe you're not going to sell a business, but either way, if you're looking for longevity or a business that has immense value value, people will pay high multiples for net revenue generated in industries that have staying power. And so as I say that of course AI has staying power, but what premise in AI or what parts of AI have staying power? And I think that's evolving really rapidly. I Mean obviously the hosting of or the, the server rooms are going to have like the actual infrastructure of AI for sure has staying power like Nvidia and Meta and all them are investing heavily into that. Elon with, with, with Grok, like that's, that's going to have staying power but there will be service services within there, there will be spin off business that have staying power. But I think a lot of the low hanging like gimmick style businesses with high margin aren't necessarily where the, where the staying power is. So I would just ask people, I was almost like more. If you're trying to have a high EBITDA exit of a business, avoid businesses that you think are easily going to change over the next 10 years and it's going to be difficult to keep the same net margins you have or to keep the customers over time. Focus on the tried and true businesses or something truly new and unique. Now software right now I do believe there is a software race. AI has made coding exceptionally easier. You still need software engineers so to speak, but they don't have to be the same quality of software engineer you had before. You could have basically some smart kids, you know that are technically inclined that through AI now can create a lot of SaaS. But there's going to be a lot of people that are creating SaaS that is relatively easy to replace or low yield. But then there are people that have built some of the biggest software companies in the world that follow the minimum. The what is it? Minimum viable product. You know, have you ever heard that minimum viable product economics where they say build the minimum via product And I'll come up with like some examples of that Bird's eye or Bird eye or like some of these other companies that do reviews. So now anyone that has high level has review gating or reputation management built into a high level, any high level system you could, you could go buy a white labeled high level system for somebody for $37 a month and just use their reputation management and you have unlimited reputation management for $37 a month. Meanwhile bird eyes charging like $500 a month for a small business for just reputation management without any of the additional services and people are still buying it. So, so it's, it's kind of a conversation of, you know, you think okay this, this, this thing, is it viable long term? And it, and it can sometimes seem like why would someone pay for that? But then you have to think who are these business owners? Maybe they will, maybe the local plumbers will keep paying bird eye because they don't know that high level does the same thing for $37.

B (27:31)

Powerful. Yeah.

A (27:33)

So I think it's difficult, you know, know, you just kind of have to make a gamble and go all in, like knowing exactly what industry. If it's, if it's. No, it's like knowing what lottery machine to put in the next, you know, $. Like I, all I can say is I. You don't necessarily know exactly where the value is going, but I know that you can make good money in almost anything. The variance of 10x20x30x a millionx, you know, because Tesla trades at 70 times earnings and it almost went bankrupt out of the gate. So like there's so much variance in that and who knows how much that's to do with brand or long term viability or being extremely early or whatever that is. So trying to control for all those factors ahead of time is something that I didn't do. And I think in some ways it was helpful because you could be a little bit, you're. I wasn't worried about all that. I was just worried about put one foot in front of the other, build a better business. Build a better business. Build a better business. Have more people doing more things better than they were doing them the day before. Right. That was like always the goal. And that is tried and true. You know, there's, I don't think Elon Musk would tell you if you went back in time and you said, do you think he'll be worth $500 billion? I don't think he would believe that. That just happened.

B (28:59)

And I think it also goes in what you said. You have to kind of go in because you've seen people that still make six figures by being an employee working at like Wall street or something. Or like, you know, some power companies are very okay with plateauing and just being okay with making, I mean 5 to 10 billion like million dollar in revenue a year. Like, I think it just depends on how far focused people are because right now, especially like with the generation that we're in, it's just very impulsive. It's always about the get rich quick scheme. It's about I need to get the next dollar. So people just jump in one thing, jump in the next thing, jump in the next thing. And before you know it, there's a zigzag and lack of direction because this is the capital of capitalism, like the United States in terms of economy and potential for room for growth. It makes the most millionaires, it has like, like the biggest economy. So the opportunities are always going to be there. It's about capitalizing on the right one as well. Would you agree with that?

A (29:52)

Yeah, we're in the innovation of the innovation engine of the world. And you know, I think too like if you're looking for the highest potential return, it's going to be on the riskiest stuff, you know, because like, you know the investors that invested in companies like Uber for instance, I don't know if anybody's. If you're watching this and you haven't watched, Super Pumped. It's a great show with Joseph Gordon Levitt where they talk, it's very pretty accurate about some of the origin story of Uber and the things they were going through. But those investors that float something like that or floated Facebook when it first came out, those are like Hell Marys because they're one other guy coming in and beating them to something away from being a complete flop and losing millions of dollars or tens of millions or hundreds of millions. Right? So like those, those, those returns come from, from Hail Mary's, but you could build a landscaping business and, and like mow yards and, and have a 100 million dollar business. I mean like, you know what I mean? Like, and that's, it's tried and true. Grass is not going to stop growing, you know, or, and that's why the service industry like H vac and plumbing and, and all these things have been doing so well because there's like, these are not things going away. AI is not replacing that right now. You know, maybe 100 years from now or whenever. I don't know what that timeline looks like. But right now when, when my air conditioner doesn't work, there's not a robot that's going to show up at the house and fix it. I need a man that knows how to fix the damn air conditioner. Right? And it ain't me. So you know, so that's not going anywhere. And I think that that's where the, that's where most people that are, that are looking for an opportunity should be. The people that are going to build the, the next 10 billion dollar tech thing, they're not, they're doing a passion project. Mark Zuckerberg I don't think was trying to be a billionaire. I'm not, I'm sure he's okay with it, you know, because I think he had an ego and I don't think having an ego is bad. But you know, Elon Musk, I don't think you're trying to be a billionaire. Those people were trying to do Something amazing. They were just, they were in this, like, I'm going to solve this problem. I want to, you know, and, and that's where that type of stuff comes from. But if people just are down to earth and they're like, hey, I can be like, what is, what is for sure attainable? You can build $100 million landscaping business business, you can get a 50 million dollar landscaping business. And to your point about like the mom and pop or the small businesses, I just want to get to here. And that's good. I think that's true. I think that's, that's awesome. I was talking to one of my good friends, Matt Timmon the other day and I said, I said, I really don't really get why there aren't more billionaires because we started thinking about it. I was like, it's not, I don't want to sound condescending, but like for all the people that make fish, 50 million or 100 million, everything comes into focus. And so now everything is just about scale. So to, to reach a 1 billion dollar net worth, not a hundred billion or that, but like to reach a one billion dollar net worth for all the people that reached 100 that did reach 100 million, it's not, it isn't that crazy anymore. And so why aren't there more? And he's, his answer was comfort. And so, and I think that's, that's true. Like somebody that built a 10 million dollar business and they're like, this is far beyond what I thought I could do and I'm comfortable. And so everybody just has to decide where they're comfortable, you know, and what are you chasing? Am I chasing? You know, I know I was watching something that Grant wrote one time, said something about he had to quit. He's inspired by the big yacht that's bigger than his in the Mediterranean. He had to quit chasing being the biggest, like I can be on that journey, but it's very likely a never ending journey. I mean I wasn't born an oil sultan in, you know, Saudi Arabia and, or an oligarch from Russia or something, you know, so like there's, there's always going to be that. And so you have to decide what are, you know, if you're on the journey to and you want to hit that billionaire moniker or you want to be a centimillionaire, or you want to sell a business for 20 or 30 million dollars, that's all great. But my story is we've made 90 like we calculated when I was writing today's. Speech. I've made $92 million in about 11 years to me personally. And I did that with the initial attempt to make $60,000 a year. I wasn't trying to make $92 million. I was trying to solve a problem. I got to take care of my family. And then in the endeavor of that problem, I wanted to solve another problem. And then it became. Now there was a point where it was like, wow, I just built something far more valuable than I ever thought was possible. But for people that like me, that are, I, I think that are. That have a level of normalcy too. Like we there. It's not like I'm some sort of texavant or something. I'm a normal guy. The, the, the journey just had to be something where I can, I can manage and be self aware and put one foot in front of the other every day now. Worked really hard for it and was obsessed. But short of obsession and like a desire to just build and help people, that's all I had and parlayed it into that. And so for most people that are trying to do that, it's doable, but just do it by putting one foot in front of the other. Get. And so it comes, it comes, it comes back to like, there's all those, those gurus that are saying, just get shit done, just do shit. And while that might be annoying, it is true. You know what I mean? Like, it is true. Like, you know, a lot of them are right. Just, just do something and do it a lot and don't try to be. You don't have to be the. I wasn't a guru. I was making. We got to making millions of dollars before. The only people who knew me were elderly people that were 65 plus. All my friends were 75 and 80 and they were customers and they were in northeast Mississippi. That's who I had become known to. Eventually it became agents too. And we developed a bigger network in that world and amplified things. But some people were like so worried about being the social media influencer that they're missing the mark that most of the people that, that have the wealth to parlay into. Like, like Alex is a great example. You know, he wasn't focused on being a fancy influencer until he had already made I think $100 million.

B (36:27)

Exactly.

A (36:28)

Then it was like, okay. And it's. And I still don't think the goal now is fancy influence for him. He just realized at some point, like it. The attention at scale would, would do what he was wanting to do. That would fulfill his goal, some of his goals.

B (36:41)

And he's now like, the algorithm, like, anything he posts, because people just. Just like and appreciate, like, the organic and authentic way and how he approaches stuff. It's just. It's so rewarding because you have all these years of nobody doing that. Everyone just talking about how fancy and rich they are. And Alex, like, simplifying everything. Listen, you can do this thing by just doing that. You're like, what?

A (37:01)

Really?

B (37:01)

It's that simple? It's like, is it that simple? Yeah, just do that thing. Do that thing. Go. It's like, wow. Like. And then it just breaks it down. And I think that's very important. But goes back again to what Grant Cardone said. I think he said, 10 million is a new 1 million.

A (37:16)

Yeah.

B (37:17)

And if I. I think I watched another interview. I don't know if you follow soccer so much, but there's a soccer player, Cristiano Ronaldo, so he was in an interview with Piers Morgan, and he said, listen, you. You want the accolades, you want the Champions League, you want to be the best player in the world. You want to be all this stuff. It can easily be done. And he stands up. It's like, yes, the blue blueprint. Just work and put in all the hours.

A (37:38)

Yeah.

B (37:39)

When you look at Elon Musk as well, when he was just sleeping, like, 21 hours, and, like, all these different days, everyone can achieve whatever they set their mind to. Which goes back again to what you said previously. You have to go a hundred percent in.

A (37:51)

Yeah. And I think the reason they don't is comfort. Like. Like, Matt told me. He's like, it's comfort, you know, and that's like, I'm okay with it. You know, Like, I. My employees, for instance, I know that.

B (38:01)

That.

A (38:01)

That's not. Their goals are not aligned with. Their goals are. Their goals are aligned with the goal of our business, but their goals are not the same as mine. And they. They. They do want some level of comfort. And I want them to be comfortable. I want them to have, you know, the life that they want to have. But if you want to go out and be this, you know, crazy thing you say, it gets to a point where, like. And so. And I talk about it, I watch a lot of content. Like, you're putting out content that will be helpful and help people, but here's how content works. You find the creators you want, and you watch a little bit every day, but you don't. I've met people that will watch six or seven hours of content a Day of like, help. Content information content. And I'm like, that's undot. That's undigestible. Like, you watch one, you know, I'm gonna listen to a podcast while I'm in, in transition here. I'll listen to an audiobook when I'm in transition here. I feel the voided time with that. But you got to be careful about like not taking the time to take the information I just got and apply it or the motivation I just got and apply it. And, and it's kind of. And this goes into like a David Goggins thing, but like the way he talks about, you know, he doesn't run when he does those long ultramarathons. He doesn't run with music or anything. And he talks about how when the music stops, who's going to be in my head, right? And so that motivation is like, I need a little bit of pick. Like I want an inspirational story or I want that, that's great, but somebody's got to go do the boring, monotonous stuff every day over and over and over again. Like when you're, if you, if you're doing other things behind the scenes, like booking with, with guests or you know, running ads to get, get that out there, or running ads of content to try to get more viewers or there's so many things behind the scenes that are the things that make everything tick. And everybody only sees the. In front of the camera, right? Or the, the thing that's obvious, but you gotta, you gotta fall in love with the, that nobody wants to do and just know that that's what sets you apart. And some of that is learning the marketing budget like I was talking about, about in here wealthcon, learning the cost. The, the, the lifetime value of the customer that you're getting is minus the cost per acquisition is the profit. And then you start backwards engineering to a marketing budget and you try to figure out how much can I spend to acquire this, this customer. And if I don't have any money, I either need to go get somebody to invest some money or I got to go out and beat the streets until I can find some money to then. And then I got to risk the money to see if I can get something to work and then I run out of money and I got to get some more four. And like, that's just the way it is. And at some point, if you do that enough, you'll hit a home run or grand slam or hell, a third base hit, but you're gonna, you're gonna, you're going to have success eventually if you try enough stuff and you keep going out there and, and coming back to bat, you know, and some people that might be sooner than it is for others, but whoa, you know, wah, wah, wah, like who cares, you know,

B (41:03)

goes back again to just do it. Make your dreams come.

A (41:08)

And the thing is there is no excuse anymore because Alex wrote those three books and they tell you how to do everything. You know, it's crazy.

B (41:16)

I carry. They're literally in the hotel room with me. All three of those hundred million dollars are. It's like the blueprint of everything I do. And it's. The first thing we said when he woke up is like, dude, Alex Ramosi I'm like, that's like one guy I listen to religiously. You know, I have like my Bible, but, but I gotta listen to Alexa Mosey, you know, so dude, if he

A (41:33)

was there early on, I don't know, it might have been information over like, you know, when. I don't know if you're a religious guy. But you know, they say that it was actually harder for some people to be. To find salvation when Jesus was right in front of them. And I don't, I'm not like making Alex Jesus, but from a mark for that salvation, but in the form of like marketing and biz ops. Like it almost might be that he's giving you so much information that some people might struggle because it's all right there. Like there's, it's not like I was piecing it together and maybe that actually helped. So I don't know, maybe, maybe if I'd have had it all right in front of me at one time, it had been too much information overload.

B (42:11)

Buy a business, invest in a business or start a business.

A (42:17)

If buying a business is an option, you know, I. And it would depend on the business for sure. Starting a business from the ground up has been very rewarding because every team member that works for me started with me and we've poured into them and it just, it's very rewarding. So it's also very difficult, you know. But buying a business I do believe has its, its pitfalls as well. But I think most people would tell you to buy a business, I would say starting a business and then eventually buying some smaller businesses to grow your ebitda. EBITDA faster because we did do a little bit of that. It wasn't like a huge chunk of ours, but we, we probably had an extra million in EBITDA from buying some smaller competitors and kind of rolling that into what we did, it can definitely amplify. And once you have a. Once you build a business that can serve the needs of those other business, you can amplify the profit from those. But in buying those businesses, I learned some other lessons too, about, like, cultural culture flash and, and we've done it this way or we've done it that way. So. So I don't think there's a perfect answer to that. But. But obviously, if buying a business is possible, it certainly skips a lot of, you know, what if steps.

B (43:33)

Then would you say right now with any setbacks or failures that you've occurred, have they helped you? And which failures or, or setbacks have you had in your experience and in your company as well?

A (43:47)

Yeah, we've had some marketing missteps. I've had TV campaigns that I did for, like, Memphis inner city, for instance, where I spent about $240,000 on television and got relatively no return or very, very, very low return. And, you know, sometimes you just go all in on some idea and it doesn't work out, but you learn from it. I tend to, as I'm coaching other people, use that information to guide, you know, guide our partners, which is another side of our business now. So I think that there's, there's value even in, in that information. Other missteps. It is really difficult when you have a. So I'll say it this way. I'm personal, perfectly okay with every mistake we made, but if I was starting today, I knew everything that I knew, and it was today I would do things differently. So you see what I'm saying? Like, it's not that the mistake is something I would do again. It's that I am okay with the ones that we did. Like, even some of the hires we made. You know, there's some people that I hired that looking back, I'm like, I could see clear as day, day how they were going to be a problem, but at the time, I was excited about them, so I wouldn't hire them again. But pretty much all of them there was benefit up to as well. So I've told, I've told people that have been in our business for a long time that, like, man, why did we keep that person for so long? And I said, we rode the wave. You know, we rode a wave here, we rode a wave there, we rode away here. And ultimately some of those people, you know, become bad fits. And the next time we're hiring, we look for different characters to. Or different characteristics to avoid that. But we, we learned. We have the data. Like, it wasn't clear to me then, it's clear to me now because I lived it. So. So I don't regret them. But knowing those lessons, if I was doing things over again, I wouldn't do the same thing.

B (45:49)

Awesome. No, I really appreciate your time and thank you very much for the message you shared on stage and also joining us on set as well. The last and final question, because it's the coach winning insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow. Everyone's got their own definition. But for Justin Brock today, what is your definition to winning?

A (46:08)

My definition to winning probably go back to a common theme that I've said this entire time. It is falling in love with the hard, monotonous, boring work that no one else wants to do and doing it over and over and over again as much as you can possibly stomach.

B (46:28)

Powerful. Ladies and gentlemen, if you're curious in learning a bit more about how to try and find an exit in your business, someone who actually has 11x a beta as well, this is the episode for you in terms of learning about business entrepreneurship. Justin Brock, great pleasure. Thank you, sir.

A (46:44)

Thank you.