Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Code To Winning
Host: Kagiso Dikane
Guest: Max Ganley
Episode: 059 – IS THERE STILL A FUTURE IN DOOR-TO-DOOR SALES
Date: October 3, 2025

Overview

This episode of The Code To Winning dives deep into the current state and future prospects of door-to-door sales, using the solar industry as a case study. Host Kagiso Dikane interviews Max Ganley, co-founder of Sunder Energy, who leverages his decade-long experience in door-to-door solar sales to discuss changes in the industry, the importance of integrity, business models that endure market volatility, and the “code” behind consistent high performance on and off the field.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Max’s Background and Entry into Sales

• Entrepreneurial Roots: Max comes from an entrepreneurial family; his father sold his first business for $100 million at age 38 and strongly encouraged education and self-reliance.
  • "My dad said, hey, you have to go to college and you have to stay in college until you make 100,000, then I'll let you quit…" [00:00]
• First Sales Experience: Post-mission, Max started in door-to-door solar sales in Arizona (2014–2015). Despite little training, he was self-motivated and earned $142,000 his first year.
  • "I got to go prove what I'm worth, you know, and so I love that because it was like, okay, if I want to go make this or I want to go accomplish this, I can do it." [04:34]

The Evolution of Door-to-Door Solar Sales

• Early Days: The industry was self-generated and less structured. Technology, product diversity, and industry culture were minimal.
  • "It was all self gen... you just kind of go out and make it happen. I will say the market penetration was way less… batteries weren't even a thing." [07:43]
• Industry Growth and Adaptation: The sector quickly saw new structures, cultures, and competition emerge, leading to rapid evolution.

The Arizona and California Markets: Challenges and Adaptation

• Regulation and Market Realities: Arizona lost net metering in 2017, making battery installations almost mandatory for customers.
  • "If you do 100% of your home with solar, well you're actually not getting 100% of the value…so you kind of need a battery." [09:14]
• Integrity and Sustainability: Many salespeople and companies treat solar as a cash grab, focusing on high commissions over long-term customer value—a mindset Max sharply criticizes.
  • "People have looked at the solar industry as a cash grab... those guys are short-lived." [11:22]

Sunder Energy's Business Model

• Lean, Asset-light Structure: Sunder focuses on sales and partners with regional installers, avoiding heavy overhead and liability.
  • "We don't have any fixed overhead. We don't own trucks, warehouses, branches." [22:17]
• Quality Control and Customer Focus: Sunder is one of the few companies that verify every deal post-sale (correct usage, proper panel placement, need for batteries).
  • "Everyone in the industry talks about doing right by the customer. But isn't it interesting how majority of installers don't check jobs? … We actually will check jobs." [12:39]

The Door-to-Door Rep Experience

• Year-Round Model vs. Summer Blitz: Sunder emphasizes building a year-round, stable career versus short-term blitzes, promoting work-life balance.
  • "We aren't some summer program. We've built a really good year round, consistent business. A lot of our leaders live in markets." [25:14]
• Avoiding Burnout: Structure and scheduling—treating the career as a “marathon, not a sprint”—are essential for longevity.
  • "It's all about scheduling and having a plan to where you do create this like a career..." [26:29]

What Separates High Performers?

• KPIs and Consistency: Top reps know and track their key performance indicators, focus on reverse engineering their goals, and take emotion out of the grind.
  • "Successful people in this industry, they know their KPIs... They can tell you exactly reverse engineering... how many people they need to sit with." [27:48]
• Reference Groups and Mentorship: Your circle shapes your results.
  • "You are the average of the five people you hang out with…" [33:26]
  • “Drop the ego and go find the people that are doing things in categories that you want to be better at…” [34:39]

Industry Challenges

• Why Companies Fail:

  • Installers compete on price, not quality, leading to razor-thin margins.
  • Companies do not regulate jobs, leading to increased costs for fixes and chaos in operations.
  • Many move too quickly into risky expansion or into installation, shouldering debt and liability.
  • "Three things... installers are willing to give anyone and their mother the cheapest cost... they're not regulating the volume... which then leads to them having to fix more things." [19:24]

• Sales Rep Ego & Industry Toxicity:

  • The allure of quick money, fanned by social media and “guru” culture, causes many to lack substance or practical business acumen.
  • "Social media is painting a thing of like the figure. Like, hey, I made this amount and you just take what people's words are saying." [37:46]

Door-to-Door as “Entrepreneurship on Training Wheels”

• Door-to-door is positioned as the ideal place to learn every essential business skill—sales, people management, resilience, self-management—without risking everything like a traditional business owner would.
  • "You can basically be your own entrepreneur. With 1099, you fail and not lose your business." [38:31]

The Role of Hardship and Mindset

• Max’s personal story: Raised in a wealthy but troubled family (mother's addiction and passing), he views hardship as his advantage and the key to resilience.
  • "The more that you can realize that is a blessing versus a curse..." [46:07]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On performance and self-accountability:

  • "When performance is measured, performance improves." [29:35] - Max Ganley

• On the importance of reference groups:

  • "Half a watermelon is more than a full grape." [33:12] - Max Ganley

• On mentorship:

  • "Smart people learn from their mistakes. Brilliant learn from others." [46:07] - Max Ganley

• On developing leadership:

  • "There’s three types of people in this world. There's people that make it happen, watch it happen and wonder what the hell happened." [41:12] - Max Ganley

• On ego and the industry:

  • "Find me a billionaire that did it on their own. Not a single one of them." [34:39] - Max Ganley

Timestamped Highlights

• Early Entrepreneurial Lessons & Entry into Sales: [00:00–04:34]
• Solar Sales, Structure, and Industry Evolution: [06:17–08:25]
• Arizona Solar Market & Integrity in Sales: [09:14–12:15]
• Why Bad Actors Hurt Industry Reputation: [12:15–14:35]
• Sunder’s Unique Model & Vetting Installers: [15:34–19:24]
• Why Solar Companies Fail: [19:24–21:04]
• Growth Without Overhead—Diversification: [22:15–23:43]
• Year-round Programs & Avoiding Burnout: [25:14–27:17]
• KPIs and Consistency as the Secret to High Performance: [27:48–30:46]
• The Power of Your Reference Group: [31:16–33:26]
• How to Seek Mentorship—Drop the Ego: [34:39–35:49]
• Door-to-Door as Real-World Entrepreneurship Training: [38:31–40:57]
• Business Ownership, Passive Income, and Real Success: [40:57–43:34]
• On Overcoming Hardship and Using it for Growth: [46:07–49:41]
• Freedom, Entrepreneurship, and Defining Winning: [50:45–55:40]

Max’s “Code To Winning” & Closing

Max’s Code to Winning:

• Obsess over your key performance indicators (KPIs) and process steps.
• Consistently track and analyze—small deviations compound into big misses.
  • "The code of success for me is just I obsess over the KPIs... because in life you just need bumpers." [55:40]

Defining Winning:

• "Winning, to me, is being dialed in on your KPIs... there is no cap on what you can accomplish." [53:04], [50:55]

Contact Max:

• Instagram: @MaxGanley (DM for investment or solar inquiries) [55:55]

Tone and Final Impressions

The episode blends practical business systems and data-driven thinking with candid, personal stories. Max’s approach is transparent, rational, and direct—emphasizing sustained success over hype, collaboration over ego, and self-measurement over emotion. Door-to-door sales, often stigmatized, is presented as both a legitimate business training ground and a viable field for ambitious individuals able to play the long game. This episode is particularly valuable for anyone in sales, aspiring entrepreneurs, and professionals seeking both tactical and mindset-driven “codes” for winning in business and life.