← The Code To Winning
The Code To Winning
IS THERE STILL A FUTURE IN DOOR-TO-DOOR SALES || MAX GANLEY || EPISODE 059
00:56:37
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- [00:00]
Max Ganley
I grew up in a really unique situation. My dad's a big entrepreneur, sold his first business at 38 for 100 million. Has gone on to do a lot of things. And so where I grew up, I've been surrounded by a lot of successful people. My dad said, hey, you have to go to school. He actually didn't go to college. He was homeless at 14, didn't go to college. But he told me, hey, you have to go to college and you have to stay in college until you make 100,000, then I'll let you quit because I didn't get the chance to go to college. You've got to do it. So I went to college and then I went and did door to door. And this was back in 1415 when solar was still very unknown or new. It was kind of newer, so to say. Right. And just started killing it. My first year I made 142,000.
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Podcast Host
You started selling in the Scottsdale area. Was that like your first rodeo and then did you end up like branching out to other markets as time went by?
- [00:41]
Max Ganley
Yeah. So my first couple years I was just, I started just closing deals. Then naturally I had a lot of friends come and want to do it. Naturally more people came and so as I, you know, doing this a decade, I went from kind of being a sales rep to a sales manager to then a regional. And then in 2019 a few of us, we started our current company, Sunder Energy and it now in today's current state, we span across about 45 markets with over, you know, 1500 sales reps active and stuff. So it's been cool to kind of see the adaption. Sadly people have looked at the solar industry as a cash grab. So they're in here just to go and make these big commissions, you know, versus what's best for the customer or their business. And those guys are short lived. I've seen that. These guys that chase well, I'm going to make more per deal. I never see them last longer than a year or two. They always try to, you know, they're chasing all the time. Where exactly I've set my career up where it's like, hey, I've been able to build a foundation and then build off that and that provides more consistency. So what we've provided is a platform to where you're still part of that whole ecosystem but you're getting your selfishly best experience to where you're serving your client. So and it also diversifies our business. We don't have any fixed overhead, we don't own trucks, warehouses, branches. We don't have all these big fixed expenses that can go take a company down when times get tough.
- [01:47]
Podcast Host
The code to winning insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow. Today we have an amazing guest. If you are interested and curious in learning about renewable energy, the solar, if you want to be able to jump in door to door, if you want to find out a bit more about this specific industry. We have a man that's been in this industry for about 10 years in different markets, and he's built one of the biggest solar companies as well, straight out of Mesa. And so, you know, without further ado, I'm going to have Max Ganley in the studio. Thank you. Welcome, boss. How you doing?
- [02:20]
Max Ganley
Doing awesome. Thank you for having me.
- [02:22]
Podcast Host
Awesome stuff. I appreciate that and I'm glad we got the morning schedule. I know it's very, very crazy. And one of the things I learned, and I've been taught as well, is the fact that you can tell someone's success or someone's achievements and accomplishments by how quick they respond. If I text you, it doesn't even take more than two seconds to get a response back from you. So I appreciate that. But I learned from Patrick Bedevid. He said that from all the successful people that he's learned about is like, because everything is so calculated and everything is like they appreciate time so much that they have to get over the task. And so listen, I get over the thing on the next task, next stuff, not this thing of hanging on. So I really appreciate that a lot. It made it so smooth and amazing. So I had to just mention that at the start.
- [03:04]
Max Ganley
You're welcome. I. I try to do that a lot. So it's a superpower.
- [03:09]
Podcast Host
I love it. Love it. Are you born and raised in Mesa?
- [03:11]
Max Ganley
Born and raised here, Yeah. I live my whole life in Arizona.
- [03:14]
Podcast Host
Guess what, though. You and I served on missions around the exact same time. I served 12, 14.
- [03:20]
Max Ganley
Oh, same here. I got home November 2014.
- [03:22]
Podcast Host
Yeah, I was, I think may or so that's like the same thing as well, 25 months. Because when we were on our missions, we experienced. Well, I think you just came slightly after the age change thing.
- [03:35]
Max Ganley
Yeah, I was. When I started, I was. It was a month after that they switched it all to that new age thing.
- [03:40]
Podcast Host
Okay.
- [03:40]
Max Ganley
So on. On my mission, there was people coming out that were like two years younger and all that stuff.
- [03:45]
Podcast Host
Where did you serve? I didn't see.
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Max Ganley
Edmonton, Canada.
- [03:47]
Podcast Host
Oh, wow.
- [03:48]
Max Ganley
Yeah, really cold, you know, so we, we would, you know, door knocking up There is different. When it was minus 20 to 30 Celsius, you still had to go out. And what there was a trick they taught us where we put our glove on and we'd have a golf ball to knock because we couldn't take our hands out of our gloves because it was so cold. So that was the secret. So, yeah, awesome.
- [04:06]
Podcast Host
I want to just kind of dive into it real quick. You have experience in 10 years in solar? Solar has been, it was the first time in my, my entire life that I had made a, a six figure like income as well, even though it was like in an area where six figures not significant. Bay Area, one of the most expensive places to live in the United States. But you have 10 years experience in this industry. Can you run us through just a bit of your journey in solar?
- [04:35]
Max Ganley
Yeah. So I grew up in a really unique situation. My, my dad's a big entrepreneur, sold his first business at 38 for 100 million. Has gone on to do a lot of things. And so where I grew up, I was, I've been surrounded by a lot of successful people. And so obviously we just talked about, I went on a mission. So when I got home from my mission, I was kind of bred to go be an entrepreneur. My dad said, hey, you have to go to school. He actually didn't go to college. He was homeless at 14, didn't go to college. But he told me, hey, you have to go to college and you have to stay in college until you make 100,000, then I'll let you quit. Because I didn't get the chance to go to college. You've got to do it. So I went to college and then I went and did door to door. And this was back in 1415, when solar was still very unknown or new. Know, it was kind of newer, so to say, Right. And just started killing it. My first year I made 142,000. And that was back when commissions were 1500-2000. So it was a very different, you know, time back then. It was like one product, one system kind of thing. So my dad's like, hey, you're allowed to quit. And what I found joy in door to door is it wasn't my dad calling one of his business partners, you know, saying, hey, can you give my son a job? Can you hook him up? But I found so much in door to door, I was like, I got to go prove what I'm worth, you know, and so I love that because it was like, okay, if I want to go make this or I Want to go accomplish this? I can do it. It's not my dad or his business partners or my neighbors giving me a handout. So I just started going out and doing it. Back then we didn't have the training and the concepts that we had today. I was actually dropped off in Greyhawk up in North Scottsdale by a guy in a Lexus car. And he says, hey, good luck, figure it out kind of thing. So just kind of started my journey that way. It was really unique, awesome.
- [06:18]
Podcast Host
Now that's, that's. And that's fascinating. I mean, and you started, you started in selling in the Scottsdale area. Was that like your first rodeo and then did you end up like branching out to other markets as time went by?
- [06:27]
Max Ganley
Yeah. So my first couple years I was just, I started just closing deals. Then naturally I had a lot of friends come and want to do it. Naturally more people came and so as I, you know, doing this a decade, I went from kind of being a sales rep to a sales manager to then a regional. And then in 2019, a few of us, we started our current company, Sunder Energy and it now in today's current state, we span across about 45 markets with over, you know, 1500 sales reps active and stuff. So it's been cool to kind of see the adaption. But I'm really grateful. I rely, you know, smart people learn from their mistakes, brilliant learn from others. And I think for me I've been really grateful that I have had phenomenal mentors in my life. I give them a lot of credit. It's helped me avoid a lot of mistakes that I've seen people in door to door make financially, you know, and so many other aspects. I've been able to just go to people that obviously are far smarter and successful at me and hey, what should I do in this scenario? And it's helped me kind of stay on a path that's been very successful.
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Podcast Host
I love that, love that so much. What was different back then? I know obviously when I did solo, there was a whole setter closer self jenner in trying to find your way between then build a team. So in 2015 or 2014, like around that time, what would you say was slightly different compared to like how things are right now?
- [07:44]
Max Ganley
Structure wise, you didn't really have all that. It was, it was just kind of go eat what you kill. It was all self gen we call it. You not close your own doors. Just kind of go out and make it happen. I will say the market penetration was way less, not as Many people were in the solar game then, so to say, you know, you didn't have the tech we had today. We didn't have the 10 different products. Batteries weren't even a thing. So it's very just you know, simplified back then, but at the same time you didn't have that. But the industry evolved quickly. The first couple years all of a sudden you saw a company start to kind of create similar to what Vivint and some of the big door to door companies have kind of the culture, the competitions, the all the systems you need to adapt and stuff. Because solar started to just take off kind of. No.
- [08:26]
Podcast Host
And one thing I did notice, well when we were there, the first two years were relatively very, very good. The third year, that's when they implemented the NEM 3.0. And so it, it, it hit us real hard because I remember getting some guys that were there. The commissions went from absolute luxury because I mean one of my closest, like one of my biggest deals the year before was a good like over 20,000 was like a, an Asian woman by cappuccino. Literally like same street as like the Apple headquarters. She just like I want like she had like 54 panels even I think more than that filled up the entire roof. So like stuff like that which was a self gen was like something so rewarding. And then like name 3.0 was like a way where it was just. It pretty much was not the best experience. Did Arizona implement the same thing?
- [09:15]
Max Ganley
We haven't had net metering since 2017.
- [09:17]
Podcast Host
Okay.
- [09:18]
Max Ganley
So we've kind of been. Arizona is a tried and true like brute of a market, you know, and sadly it's very unfortunate. I'd say majority of people don't educate themselves enough of how to sell correctly in Arizona. We come across a lot of deals like now kind of in Arizona I'd say 90%. You need to be doing batteries the last like two years. It's sad to see the amount of sales companies and installers that are allowing jobs to be installed without a battery because the buyback now is like around 6, 7 cents. So if you do 100% of your home with solar, well you're actually not getting 100% of the value because all that excess is only being bought at 6 cents. It's not a one for one. And every year the buyback goes down and down. So you kind of need a battery. And so yeah, it's changed. And I think a strength to my company and myself is we've always been willing to choose doing business the right Way versus the wrong way. And even if that makes less money or we lose out on certain groups that don't want to come work with us just because they're all about how many deals I can sell and how we can do it right. And I think that's what has led to my personal success. I'm near and close, about 900 personal installs in my career.
- [10:22]
Podcast Host
Wow.
- [10:23]
Max Ganley
So I went many years doing over 100 plus installs. And so I learned it's like, man, it's not what you make per deal, it's what you make per year. And if you can maximize referrals and doing good business, you're going to get a way better return on your investment than just slamming in that one deal. Because I'm going to make a little bit more on that, you know, and that's principles my father and many of my mentors taught me is like, you got to look at it from a business perspective of not just like what's in it right now, but what's in it like now and long term and.
- [10:49]
Podcast Host
Yeah, and I couldn't agree more. When, when I was also doing it, I remember there was a time like Arizona always was like number one in the market and it, it like it had like the most revenue. It just had like the teams that were successful also, of course, leadership seemed to have been a bit more structured as well there. But the market was just, they were killing it. And it wasn't just us. I noticed even three different companies and that's like 21, 22, around 23. Would you say Arizona is, despite it being so saturated and competitive, it still seems to be producing. Would you say it's the same right now and then two years later from.
- [11:23]
Max Ganley
Then, it's definitely less. A lot of people have gotten out of Arizona, which kind of you want because they're usually the people that may have been doing business the wrong way. Like I said, the way you need to sell in Arizona is very niche now. You have to majority of jobs do a battery. There isn't net metering, it's net billing. The buyback's going down every year. So there's a lot of factors to where if you do business the right way, Arizona can be good. I'd say sadly, Arizona and California too. Like California is our biggest market. If you do business the right way with batteries, all that kind of stuff, you can thrive. But sadly, people have looked at the solar industry as a cash grab. So they're in here just to go and make these big commissions, you know, versus what's best for the customer or their business. And those guys are short lived. I've seen that these guys that chase well I'm going to make more per deal. I never see them last longer than a year or two. They always try to, you know, they're chasing all the time. Where exactly I've set my career up where it's like hey, I've been able to build a foundation and then build off that and that provides more consistency.
- [12:16]
Podcast Host
And I've noticed as well even from what you're saying, people like you. The Ashley buzzwords. I interviewed Sam Taggart as well, like I think a year and a half ago or a year ago. But integrity is so important in this specific marketing field. I feel like solar specifically has inherited like the pest control douchebags over time.
- [12:39]
Max Ganley
And here's the true toes. Everyone in the industry talks about doing right by the customer. But isn't it interesting how majority of installers don't check jobs? So like you and I, we could go sell a job today and put panels on whatever roof and do whatever offset majority of installers. And it's kind of a call out to a lot of installers out there and sales orgs, they don't validate that deal. We do. We, we when we sell a job here specifically in Arizona, if the usage isn't put incorrect, we deny it. If you aren't doing a battery, we'll reject it until there's a reason. So like everyone talks the talk in this industry like oh yeah, we're customer first. Well then why do you guys let any kind of system be installed? Why do you let any kind of sales rep sell for you? Because all these guys really the motive behind what people really say is based off their actions. And we've noticed like at our size we're one of the very few sales organizations that I know in the industry that actually will check jobs on the back end to make sure that the information all lines up. But yet people don't do that. But they always want to talk about how they care so much about our customers. But it's also a big reason why the industry is getting such a bad rap. Because these, these guys are like oh yeah, we're very big about our customer. Well then why do you let this company sell for you? And we know they're putting panels on the north roof. You know when everyone knows doing a system on the north roof, especially in Arizona actually is worse than, than better for the customer.
- [13:56]
Podcast Host
Yeah.
- [13:56]
Max Ganley
So I always think through that stuff.
- [13:58]
Podcast Host
No, I agree more. I Mean, I had so many bad experiences with some installers like Core Energy, I don't know if you've ever heard of them. My gosh. Like, the nice thing is that they installed super quickly, but it's like at what, at what cost?
- [14:10]
Max Ganley
Yeah.
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Podcast Host
You know what I'm saying? Like the unprofessionalism, they just slap roofs up, sometimes they damage the tiles up there. Like it's one of those things where it's like a fuss and that's why they went down and under, you know. And I also knew like the owner as well. But not to like mention that it's the fact that when you mentioned the whole back office thing, I think it's important because it's actually caring about the customer because many people speak it but don't actually do it. It's all about the money at the end of the day, you know, so.
- [14:36]
Max Ganley
And the main check is what do they do when the job is sold? Most majority of installers currently, when a job is sold, they will just continue to progress every job. Very few companies, sales organ installers actually will validate deals and be like, hey, did this homeowner actually use this much power? Where are the panels placed and will it produce? Right. Because here in Arizona specifically you have on, on and off peak times. So during, you know, the afternoon, it's more expensive. Well, if you put solar panels on the east, where is The sun at 4pm it's on the west. But yet a lot of guys will install a system with panels on the east. Installers claiming, oh yeah, we're big about the customer. Why are you letting your installers put panels on an east roof when you do need some on a south or west to offset the peak times? Right. It's just logic. But yet these people don't think like that. Right. It's sad that sales guys are like, well, I just don't care because I just want my job installed so I get paid bank, bro. It's just like, it's a really bad mindset in my opinion.
- [15:29]
Podcast Host
I couldn't agree more. And then do you get. Are you guys your own installer or you, you okay.
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Max Ganley
No. So our, our model is very unique. So we've, we've gone down the route of using a single installation company the last almost two years. We now sub. We contract out to more local regional installers similar to every construction. Right.
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Podcast Host
Okay.
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Max Ganley
There is no one big, you know, construction company. What we found, you know, we're very what's best for the customer and rep experience. And we've just found our company. We are the big box sales engine, right Sunder my company, we handle all the culture, the growth of sales and then in each different market we use a more local regional installers because every market's so different. Right. Arizona permits and AHJs are completely different than Maryland or Texas. And so it's been unique having to figure out how to tie all that together. But also it's been a huge blessing. We have found that our customers and reps have had a way better hands on experience because when you use a more local construction company they're a lot more hands on to giving a better experience because they know their market. Similar to if you and I build a home in Arizona where we fly to Florida. We're not using the same home builder. So that's kind of our approach to it. We've tried the big box. One construction company, one thing there's pros and cons to it. We just found overall if you're really putting the customer at first, in my opinion it's a lot more of a hands on experience because there's so many nuances when it comes to doing a solar install.
- [16:50]
Podcast Host
And then is that the, the trajectory and plan at least they just try and become your own installer or right.
- [16:55]
Max Ganley
Now we will never become an installer. Ok. The last thing, it's just not the play right now. Like the. And this is where sales guys don't have respect for installers. It doesn't matter the size. The installers are the ones that take on all the risk and liability. But yet these sales guys are like well who's going to pay me the most and do this for me? It's like you need to have a win win regardless if your installer is the biggest or local, they need to stay in business. They're the ones that are going to try to service that system. Right. They're the ones who's going to pick up the phone when there's an issue. Most of these sales guys aren't going to be in door to door in many years to come. And so you know it's unique to see see that but we have no intentions of doing any of the construction because it's just not the play.
- [17:33]
Podcast Host
Okay. And then with the whole installer thing, have you had any obviously like experiences setbacks with like bad installers and like what are the specific criteria that you look for to try and gain like the right installers for that specific market that you guys are currently in right now?
- [17:52]
Max Ganley
Yeah, I'd say for us, you know it's an ever changing kind of industry right now. You know, the bill, all these kind of things coming out. I think for us, the most important thing is just financial health and stability. Something unique about our model is we have partnerships with a lot of the banks in the industry that kind of help guide us on which installers to use and not to use. So we're able to kind of cross reference like, okay, this is when this installer gets funded. You know, is that slow or fast? You know, this is the material they have. So we've been able to do a really good job at our size, vetting out a lot of the facts of financials, how much crew capacity they have, do they have enough capacity to actually handle our volume? You know, what's their strategy? Are they diversified? And so for us, that's kind of what we look for, is just like health of the installer. It's not about who's the cheapest, it's more about the quality. Because right now, the name of the game is not, you know, fastest install, it's just who's gonna pay. Mm. Because the banks are changing. Like the money's drying up in this industry right now in a very weird way because of the big. The big beautiful bill. So it's about who's got stability and security that's not overleveraging themselves. The sad thing you see in this industry is majority of companies go chase volume, and then now they become beholden to that. Right. And so they're willing to drop their shorts and do all these things because they have to get volume to keep business. We're more focused on, okay, who can actually like maintain a healthy kind of relationship and not over leverage themselves.
- [19:12]
Podcast Host
And I mean, there's just so much. It's like a billion dollar industry like solar as a whole, and with all government incentives and everything else. Why do you think it's been the leading factor to why so many companies have went down and under over time?
- [19:24]
Max Ganley
Three things, I think. One, I mentioned this earlier. The install companies are willing to give anyone and their mother the cheapest cost. You know, you. Today I could introduce you to 10 solar installers here in Arizona that will give you the same cost to go do an install as they are giving it to one of their other partners. So, one, these installers are dropping their shorts because they want volume. Two, they're not regulating the volume. So they're allowing you look at kind of the trends of some of these companies that have gone bankrupt. They give away, they gave, you know, they don't understand the difference between their hard cost and soft cost. So they go give everyone a cheap, call it redline. But then they don't realize that they're actually losing money because everyone has this cheap cost too. They are the ones that are installing any type of job. They're not regulating the size of the system, they're not regulating if the panels are on the right roof, all the factors. So then that leads to three, which is now they start spending a lot of money fixing things and chasing things. It's a common trend. If you look at the last 10 years, that is what's happened to some of these big companies and small that got a business. And then the finance companies are really starting to crack down on. Just because you have the system installed doesn't mean we're going to fund you. You have to have all these criteria. So that's really how clear it is. It's just they give. They're giving everyone way too low of a cost that shouldn't deserve. It should be met off volume. But they get so desperate. Two, they're not regulating their deals, so they're letting all these bad deals happen. Which then three leads to them having to fix more things. And then what does that sales group do that sold bad business? They just go to the next guy.
- [20:50]
Podcast Host
Yeah.
- [20:50]
Max Ganley
So then it's like they're left holding the bag. And it's like, well, you did this to yourself. You let everyone and their mother come on, sell it, give them a cheap cost. You didn't protect your margins, you were desperate for volume, you didn't regulate their business, so therefore you pay the price. You know?
- [21:05]
Podcast Host
Yeah, that's fascinating. And then obviously you guys have got 1500 people right now. Isn't there a fear sometimes of growing a little too fast in terms of the sales reps aspect as well? Because sometimes growing too fast can be detrimental to a company's growth and, and the trajectory of where they're heading. Is that a concern for you guys at the moment?
- [21:23]
Max Ganley
We've been big for a long time. Like I said, sunder started in 2019. I think we've passed over 55,000 solar installs in our career. We've done it a big eye. I think it comes down to just, you don't manage people, you manage systems. And I think we've created really good systems. We, we have a tech platform, we have great leadership. And so we've been able to manage that because of the systems we have and because of our platform. People are coming to our company because of the security and stability we provide to them. Where a lot of people in the industry are scared right now, going and tying yourself to an installation company right now is very scary because there's a lot of unknowns. You know, these companies are promising this. They're going out of business. That guy's left missing out hundreds of thousands of dollars. Right. And so I think guys are realizing being somewhere where you have diversification is very safe to them. I look at it the same way. I'm sure you invest in the stock market, right? Do you own a stock or do you have a variety of stocks?
- [22:16]
Podcast Host
Just a few, yeah, I have a few, yes.
- [22:18]
Max Ganley
And so it's the same thing. What we learned a couple years ago, why go put all of our money, our eggs, in one basket, where now our model is very diversified, where we're using a variety of different construction companies, which allows us to be very nimble and also protected. Because if one position of our company was to maybe struggle, it's not taken down the whole program. And that's how sales guys want it. Selfishly, if you and I are selling in Arizona, you don't really care how's it going in Illinois? You just want the best experience here and vice versa. Right. And so what we've provided is a platform to where you're still part of that whole ecosystem, but you're getting your selfishly best experience to where you're serving your clients. And it also diversifies our business. We don't have any fixed overhead. We don't own trucks, warehouses, branches. We don't have all these big fixed expenses that can go take a company down when times get tough.
- [23:05]
Podcast Host
Oh, gosh, I love that. And I mean, the fact that you're very stuck on principle of what the vision and your mission is. Sometimes I feel like people end up trying to take on responsibilities, Try to become an installer, try to become this thing, try to become that thing. And then before you know it, it just always sinks in. Because it's like, if this, like, it's not broken, why you got to fix it? Rather just go one direction and continue to enhance that, the trajectory and the path that you're kind of going as well. And I think it's. It's important the fact that, you know, you stuck to your principles and you go in that direction. However, what are some of the things that you are doing right now to try and prevent the company from going down like most of these companies that have in this industry?
- [23:44]
Max Ganley
I think, number one, we. If you look at the common trend, again, this isn't to knock on people in the industry. This isn't of all be all majority of the companies that have gone out of business have taken on the liability of construction. So for us we're going to avoid that because like I just mentioned earlier, when you become the installer you don't have to have the trucks, the warehouses, you got to have the credit lines to buy equipment. You got to service the system. So and you, you take on a massive fixed expense. My company is a massive sales organization that is very asset light. We have I think 20 employees, we have tech, we have optionality. So that is our difference is we are going to stay in this kind of middle ground where we're one of the largest sales organizations but yet we don't have to carry any of the liability or debt. And that is what these guys have chased. They go and become their own installer and you run that risk. Not saying everyone's doing it wrong, just saying that you start to take on fixed expenses and then if things get tough, you still have the mortgage to pay, you know, so you either close it down. To this point, no one's really been able to prove the national construction model at scale on a long term basis. There's always been kind of this like thing that happens, right? You look at a sun run, they've shut markets down over the last couple years. You look at some of the bigger installers, they've gone bankrupt. The Titans, adt. No one's been able to kind of keep the bro that program going on a long term basis without something else having to sacrifice.
- [25:06]
Podcast Host
Hmm, that's so fascinating. Now coming down to like the sales rep as well. You guys have programs for summer and year round or how does that work?
- [25:15]
Max Ganley
We're like 90% year round. I think that's what makes Sunday unique is we aren't some summer program. We're not a blitz program. We don't go hammer on market leave. We've built a really good year round, consistent business. A lot of our leaders live in markets. I think people get into our industry because they want a lifestyle. They don't want to have to go leave for the summer. Some guys do. We do have teams that do that and stuff. But we've been very heavily based off hey, you live, work where you are, you have a lifestyle, go home to your kids at night kind of thing. That's truly why I got into solar. I didn't want to go leave and go do alarm cells over the summer and leave. I was like, man, if I can do solar I can make the money I need to make where I live and still have that lifestyle.
- [25:48]
Podcast Host
Yeah. And I think that's what also worked as well for me because I did like two years year round and obviously that's where I got the most success because as much as we hammered that down in like the, the summer time like the year on was a bit more schedule like and you see treated like a, an actual job. You go out for the hours there a career and it's just, it's way more efficient. It's also a good time which is less stressful. So you can see around like those customers, the referrals. You work a little smarter, you find strategies and you become a bit more useful. But at the same time summer because you're in a structure where it's like an office based can also just like be a quick like injection of boost.
- [26:23]
Max Ganley
For you as well.
- [26:24]
Podcast Host
But which kind of leads to like and if you do a year round thing, how do you prevent burning out?
- [26:30]
Max Ganley
I think it's a marathon, not a sprint. You know, would I love for everyone to go work eight, ten hours a day? Sure. I think the reality is it's about, it's all about scheduling and having a plan to where you do create this like a career. Having kind of your schedule where you know when your times go generate business, your time's a close business, your time to train. So I think it's more of a marathon versus sprint of having that kind of consistency of a schedule. You know, when you're in a competition, go go hard when you're not, you know, live that kind of lifestyle, go on those vacations kind of thing is kind of the thing. But I think also being somewhere people want to be somewhere where they're around others doing more than what they are currently doing. So I think Sunder's job and many great companies out there create a culture to where people are part of something that helps them feel like they're working towards something bigger all the time so they continue to drive forward and all that kind of stuff.
- [27:17]
Podcast Host
That's, that's, that's amazing. Then what would separate like I mean you've done on average 100 or more installs a year in like the 10 year span. What separates like those sales reps that make a hundred compared to those that are like in the 20 or low because all the information is there and like the same pitch and everything. What separates those elite from like just your average because 20 is still like a good like amount considering like how much it gets paid. But it's nowhere near the level and standard of, like, those that are doing exception.
- [27:48]
Max Ganley
Well, yeah, I'd say. I'd say this isn't just in our industry, it's in life. The biggest traits, the two biggest traits I've noticed, besides all the cliche, work hard, all that, you know. But the two main things that I'll say that's different is successful people in this industry, they know their KPIs, key performance indicators. If you talk to any of my great leaders I work with, they can tell you exactly their goal is three deals this week. They can tell you exactly. Reverse engineering, they can tell you if they need three deals, they can tell you how many people they need to sit with. They can tell you how many appointments they have to set, they can tell you how many homeowners are decision makers. And then they can tell you how many doors. So anyone that's successful in Anything knows their KPIs and in our job. That's what I learned from my mentors early on. I take the emotion out of it. Everyone's so focused, oh, you got to work X amount of hours. I don't care about the hours. The hours are a byproduct. If your goal is to go knock 200 doors, how many hours does it take to knock 200 doors? You know, 10, 12. So see, a lot of guys are like, you can, but your emotions play games on you. If you're like, man, I've been out for an hour, I need to go home. I think the fatigue for me, it's like, no. If my goal every day is just to talk to 10 decision makers, well, if halfway through, I'm like beating myself up and I'm like, oh, I'm only at five, I'm winning. I'm halfway to my goal. When I hit 10, I'll go home. So I take out the emotional thing of the hours. But I'd say, number one, they know their numbers, and number two, it. If they know their numbers, they know their steps to everything they do. They know their steps, the door approach, the clothes. And this is any career. Every successful person I know, like, did you play sports growing up?
- [29:21]
Podcast Host
Yeah.
- [29:22]
Max Ganley
Is there a single professional athlete that you know that doesn't know their. Their metrics?
- [29:27]
Podcast Host
Impossible. Impossible. Especially the more you become like semi pro and professional. Like, it's just everything is just.
- [29:35]
Max Ganley
LeBron knows exactly what his free throw percentage is, you know, so again, reps and even people in life one, they don't track their numbers, so they don't track their stats of, you know, when performance is measured, performance improves. So they don't track their performance. So therefore they don't know to improve. And then therefore they don't have steps to each of the things they're doing. If it's door to door, they don't have their steps, the door approach, they don't have their steps to maybe their closing process. So therefore it's like those two go together. You track your numbers to then identify if you're skipping a step. So those would be my two things is that's what I've noticed. The difference is for me, did I go knock 30 hours a week? No. I just figured out my numbers and said, okay, if I want to do 100 installs, I need to sell this many, I need to dig. And I just reverse engineer and just stuck to that every week. And it just made it really easy. And it didn't burn me out because I was like, oh, this is, this is easy. And then consistently led to excellence to where out of every 10 homeowners, an average person, just that one appointment. Well, if you consistently do something, it leads to every 10 homeowners, two appointments. So the reason I was able to go do high numbers and a lot of leaders I've worked with do more numbers is it's not that they increase their work like time on the doors. They just increase their productivity by consistently sticking to that which made them more effective, powerful.
- [30:47]
Podcast Host
And I think it was Malcolm Gladwell that spoke about the doctrine of the 10,000 hours as well. And consistency, as you mentioned, like obviously leads to excellent. The blueprints are there for people that have been successful. You mentioned LeBron James, Messi, Ronaldo, all these like professional athletes that are just so good at what they do. Serena Williams, Tom Brady. Everyone knows success comes from consistency. What? Why can't people just maintain that level of consistency? Especially like in the door to door industry.
- [31:17]
Max Ganley
Harvard did the study of the reference group. It's all about who you're surrounded with. I think that is why you look at, you know, in door to door, guys chase the dollar. So they're willing to, they're always being like, well, if I can go get paid more per deal, I'm going to make more. Well, it's not about what you make per deal, it's what you make per year. You look at Vivint, they're kind of the cre, the crown jewel of door to door. Back when they were at their heyday of alarms, right. More people made money at Vivint in door to door back in the heyday than they did going and being their own alarm company. It's the same principle. And so I've done this 10 years now. I have seen so many guys go be their own little solar company. And I've never seen any of them actually out earn majority of the people that are plugged into a sales program over the. Over a consistency of 1, 2, 3 years. Because again, I think the secret is you need to be. You need to have a reference group. You need to have those 5, 10, or in our case, hundreds of people. And this is a shout out to some of the other big sales organizations too, the companies that can create a reference group of that. That is what helps people go be more successful. But sadly, you know, and I'm different. I grew up with big money. You know, my dad's wealthy. I grew up around people. So I've saw early on principles of success, sadly, many people getting into solar. When I ask people, most of their parents don't even make SIG figures. They don't know what it's like to go be a millionaire. For me, that's all I knew growing up was like, I look at my dad, like homeless at 14, didn't go to college. The guy's multimillionaire. I look at my neighbor and I'm like, okay, these guys are great human beings and they have a ton of money. What's what, principles they apply. So that's all I took is just applying that. But what I learned from my dad especially is my dad didn't make all the money himself. He's telling me all the time, he goes, max, I would have made a twentieth of what I made if it wasn't for my business partners. You know, my dad made a lot of his money in the Internet boom. He is not a tech guy, you know, he is a sales guy, you know, but it's all about that. So that would be my answer is it's all about your reference group. I'm always willing to give a little bit here to gain more here. You know, half a watermelon is more than a full grape.
- [33:11]
Podcast Host
Powerful.
- [33:12]
Max Ganley
And so for me, I've always been luckily trained early on from the people I have in my life to focus on being with the right people, with the right platform. Because the byproduct is half a watermelon is more than a full grape. And financially, it's done wonders for me and many of the guys that I've worked with.
- [33:27]
Podcast Host
And that's why Jim Rohn said, you are the average of the five people you hang out with, because naturally you end up picking up traits, you end up picking up habits. And. And that's why if you're with a group of degenerate people, even if you're a very college educated person, you just end up, like, inheriting those traits. And, and it's also been proven, as you mentioned, that Harvard study, if you end up hanging out with people that. I think they made a study as well, when I was originally born and raised in South Africa. And I think I once learned and heard about this scenario where they were encouraging kids to sit on the table with their parents, and they got to find out that those that would watch TV and eat dinner while watching TV compared to those that were just sitting with their parents, same class, same age, same everything. Those that sat with their parents on the table started hearing conversations, were becoming a bit more intellectual. They started, like, being better critical thinkers as well. And I think with what you mentioned, because you've seen that that's all, you know, and it's easy because now if you're on the for level of mentorship, you know, your dad's only made that amount of money. It's almost like, okay, well, that's the norm. You know what I'm saying? And I think it's so hard for those that haven't had those mentors. But, like, what advice would you have for those people that haven't had that level of mentorship?
- [34:39]
Max Ganley
Drop the ego. Because again, everything I see in this industry, everyone, the reason why they go do their own thing is they're just egotistic. I can go do it myself, but I find me a billionaire that did it on their own. Not a single one of them. There's no successful person that will say, I am this because of myself. Mm. They're all. They've all had people, they've had business partners, they've had, you know, things. So my advice is like, drop the ego and go find the people that are doing things in categories that you want to be better at that you're, you know, go find those people that are being what you want to be in those categories. Right. Similar. You know, you and I know, Jake and Joe, the twins, are talking about, I needed to kind of whip my bun, get back in shape, you know. So I called them and said, hey, they're hustling. I'm going to go work out with them. You know, shout out to those guys. That was last summer. I was like, I can't get back in shape. That's, again, the drop the ego Right. Like I'm older than them, all this kind of stuff. No, dude, I don't care. They're freaking cool. They're gonna help me, right? So again, people are so short minded in this industry, they think about, well, if I go sell this one deal, I can make two grand more on this one deal if I'm by myself. Well, great. I haven't found any of you that consistently have a successful career. You're always chasing because then you try to build and then you lose guys, you know, it's just a revolving door.
- [35:49]
Podcast Host
And you said ego. I couldn't agree more. And, and I think that's, it's so hard because it's given door to door such a bad rep. And that's where I learned most of like I've always been an extrovert, I've always been a person. I mean I did two internships in, in New York, I got a full time offer there, ended up declining it to try and like follow the, the pursuit of like being an entrepreneur. But my point is like I feel like just the few rotten few are just giving a bad rep for everyone else. You know, like the whole like, I am this, I am that, like fake numbers, just all this stuff has given the door to door rep such a toxic trait. But it's the one place where people have gained the most skill from. You know what I'm saying? Would you agree?
- [36:28]
Max Ganley
Yeah, that. I wish. It's funny, as I talk to people, I've been in it ten years, so I've, I started when commissions were 1500, 2000, you know, now they're seven, ten, right? Six. The sad reality is most people got into sold the last five years, so all they know is big commissions.
- [36:42]
Podcast Host
Exactly.
- [36:43]
Max Ganley
So sadly, and I hope a lot of those guys will kind of wean out as this bill comes through and they'll change a lot of things. Ohms Analytic, which is a big kind of analytical data thing for residential says, you know, they project a 60% volume production if this bill goes through as is and stuff like that and solar. But you look at it, you're like, yeah, majority of the industry right now is made up of guys that got into it during COVID to go make bank bro, and aren't really thinking about and don't know how to run a, you know, business. And that's the thing is we've cultivated this culture in our industry. Anyone can be a business owner because like I mentioned earlier, you could call any installation company and they'll let you be your own sales company. So everyone has this ego. Like, I'm a CEO and it's like, you have no, you've never learned business or ran a business or around people in business. But because this, this installer said that you can be your own sales company, therefore you have this entitlement of it. And I've never been lured by that. So I'm like, if that was going to make me the most per year and my guys, I do it. But I never have had that thought. Money's a byproduct to me because of how I grew up. I'm always going to make money. So I'm going to focus on other things that matter more within the byproduct becomes more money.
- [37:46]
Podcast Host
And it's crazy that you mentioned that because unfortunately, I think another driving factor for this is social media because there are so many of these gurus that are out there and half of them are in fact not even half a. But a large majority are just so phony. You know what I'm saying? And it's been. That's why I'm saying it's been such an enlightening thing being with the twins because, you know, they've been making me work out every single day. It's been the first time worked out for like five days in a row. We're going on six as well. But like, I feel like we're losing the plot of like just genuineness of people because social media is painting a thing of like the figure. Like, hey, I made this amount and you just take what people's words are saying. And I think it's just the sales bro culture. I just wish it would just die out, you know, it's just giving the rep such a bad name. Whereas Door to Door, it's got some of the best people I've come across ever. You know, Would you add on that as well?
- [38:32]
Max Ganley
My dad did Door to door. Didn't Mark Cuban do Door to Door to Door is. I think it's cool. Everyone wants to be a business owner. Door to Door is the best way to be. Like entrepreneurship on training wheels. You can basically be your own entrepreneur. With 1099, you fail and not lose your business. If you think about this week, I could go out and, you know, because what do business owners have to do? They have to generate their own business. They have to learn people skills. Like Door to Door is literally Entrepreneurship 101. The beautiful thing about Door to Door is that it's training wheels and the fact that if you got a whole week and you fell at entrepreneurship not generating business. You don't lose your business, right? If you own a store and you fell at those kind of things, you lose your business because it. So I look at it that perspective, like, man, what an opportunity we have to really go like learn all the skill sets that business owners have and need to go own your businesses down the road. You know, because you look at a lot of the greats in door to door the last 30 years. Most of the successful ones have gone on to do very successful things. So I view it that way too as man, I love what we're doing right now. It's the best thing to learn skill sets to then be to be ready for your future kind of entrepreneurship. Because you kind of have a buffer right now to fail, right? If I got today and knock and I don't get an appointment, that's okay, I can go make it up tomorrow. When you own a real business, if you miss payroll for your employees, your business is done. You know, I mean, so like I love that concept. But I think with this be a beautiful builds, help people realize like to your point, you know, I always tell people when you're, when I'm recruiting, ask me questions about what investments I have asked me about, like what I've done with my career. Because most of these guys, you see what they've done with their careers, buy shoes, they don't own a house, they don't own a car. How much recurring revenue do you have? You know, I make $15,000 a month of passive income right now and that's all because of the money I've made in solar to invest in deals outside of solar that now pay my bills. I talk about that openly because most guys in solar can't say that. If you ask most of these gurus and top dudes like, cool, what kind of like cash flowing assets do you have? Well, you know, they don't know. You know, they don't. It just baffles me, right? But guys go follow those guys, ask those kind of questions, like, hey, what kind of recurring revenue do you have? What investments do you own? What long term deals do you have? You know, like that's the kind of methodology I have. But again, I was raised different. A lot of these guys like, yeah, but that dude drives a cool car. And that benefits you how? You know, that's my, that's how I feel. I get passionate about it, you know, because I'm like, dude, it's all about investing and setting yourself up.
- [40:57]
Podcast Host
You know, I love that so much. The question I had about leadership, then would you think, would you say rather that leadership, do you think you're born with it or something you can actually gain and develop over time? A little bit of both, I think.
- [41:13]
Max Ganley
Both. Like, you know, there's three types of people in this world. There's people that make it happen, watch it happen and wonder what the hell happened. Right. I'll be the first to admit, when I was growing up I was a little bit of a made it happen versus and watch it happen, right? Because you know, I drove a blacked out Escalade in high school. Like I was given a lot of things, right. It wasn't until I grew up, went on my church mission that I got home and then realized I had more of a made it happen kind of attitude. So I think it is a combination of both. I've lived both to where I didn't really make it happen because I didn't need to. But then I realized when I had to, I actually made it happen. But again, that goes back to me is I think everyone can develop those skill sets, but it's all about who you go surround yourself with. You know, a lot of these guys in this door to door space take on the mentality, I'm going to go do it myself.
- [41:58]
Podcast Host
Exactly.
- [41:59]
Max Ganley
And therefore they never develop the trades where I'm over here like, dude, if I'm going to make a little less on these deals. But I'm a. Like I talked about investments earlier. If you ask a handful of the leaders, I personally work with one of my top leaders, he makes $7,500 a month in passive income outside of solar.
- [42:14]
Podcast Host
Interesting.
- [42:14]
Max Ganley
90% of that is from investments that me and him are doing together. So see, my mind goes into, okay, I'll take less money if I can work with you because it sounds like you're going to help me in another aspect of life. And therefore the byproduct is I'm going to actually make that up 10x100%. So see my mind go, and this is where these guys and that's life. But like I'm just, I always view it that way of okay. Because you know, a lot of these gurus and door to door guys are like, oh yeah, you got to go buy real estate and invest. Okay, how we just do it. And it's like they don't know how I'm over here. Like, I can tell you exactly. I can help many people in my life and anyone if they call me, I can give them five to six deals right now that can help them make passive income and actually teach them how. Because I was taught how I have people living that lifestyle and that actually introduced me to the people. Right. And my blessing is to pass that along to people. I know.
- [43:01]
Podcast Host
I couldn't agree more. Thank you so much, like for sharing and touching on that. The reason why, like, when I think about that, Max, I just think about how I had to even change my interview style over time because like, yes, the first few guests were like big names. But a lot of the stuff was so vague, like, yeah, go work hard. It's all in your mind. You know, like I'm like, I have like, you know, I'm a ten figure entrepreneur. And yeah, if you go and put all the eggs, you can do it there. But there is no blueprint. There is no steps. There is no stuff that I.
- [43:34]
Max Ganley
No tangibility.
- [43:36]
Podcast Host
My dad's one of my biggest fans and I'm not going to throw one of my guests down here because I'm really grateful for each and every single person. Like that's, that's been there because they've helped elevate the show by bringing their audience as well. But one of my dad was a guy who said, you know, they made this amount of money, like it was super high. But like, my dad's like, okay, but how did he make it? So I went to go watch the interview again and I was like, there was nothing. There was like, I made that. You can go do it as well. I'm amazing. I'm this on that thing. But it's like, that's not the purpose like people. But the thing is though, sometimes people get a following from that and people start loving it. But it's like, what did you, what did you gain from being at that seminar? Because you just heard how amazing this person is. But there is no blueprint. There's no step of like, fine, go build up your credit score. After you build up a credit score, end up like finding the right finance. They can like do the thing. Okay, where do you get the listing? Go to like the certain website as well. Get a realtor that can help you get the, you know. But there is no blueprint. Was always, I make this thing amazing. And I think the fact that you said that, I think it's a very attractive trait because it shows already transparency number one. And it shows trust. Because now if you can break those two things down, it's easy for somebody to trust you. But everyone is so obsessed with the social media. We just pick up on the big figures, like, oh, that amount. But it's like I've gained nothing and I paid a thousand bucks to be in the seminar, but like I gained nothing. So I appreciate you being the openness and I think that's probably very good for recruiting as well because recruiting is great, but also retention is far more important.
- [45:01]
Max Ganley
It's easy to recruit. The secret is sustaining and retaining. And I'll say like I'm, as you can tell, I'm a very logical person. Like sadly, a lot of guys in this space get recruited off the emotion and hype. I do really well recruiting people based off like tangible things. I can give them actual blueprint of how to get more appointments, how to deal more deals, and then beyond that actually make more money. Like one of my favorite texts last week from one of my leaders just text me, hey man, just sent $75,000 into that investment fund. Thanks so much. Like that's cool that I had a leader that made that kind of money that just wired 75,000 into an, into a real estate fund. I'm in that I introduced him to. Like that stuff's cool to me because I'm like, yeah, that is winning beyond what solar is and door to door. But that's what door to door is for, is to be obsessed with this now, to then diversify into that day. I've only lost money in two deals I've ever done. They're both deals that I never told my dad or his business partners about. So I've learned like, okay, I'm just gonna like tell all the people I know about and then I just don't lose, you know, because again it's. Smart people learn from their mistakes. Brilliant learn from others. I'm just like, well, I obviously have very brilliant people.
- [46:02]
Podcast Host
I gotta type that. I continue. That's one of the best phrases I've heard. Smart people learn from their stake. Brilliant people learn from others. Sorry.
- [46:08]
Max Ganley
Yeah. And again, I have learned I'm not lured into doing things that guys in the space do. Trying to be their own, you know, installer so to say, or their own sales org. Because I've learned obviously that's not the long term success or things like that, investing. Right. So, but, but I'm very open. You know, I, I have a really unique childhood, right. My, my parents got divorced when I was 9. My mom became a drug addict who passed away from it. Cocaine, heroin. So like I'm very open about this stuff and my investments because I want people to also recognize like we all go through hard shit and the more that you can realize that is a blessing versus a curse. Like, me realizing the, dude, I am a mom, growing up, she became addicted to drugs. Like, that actually was the biggest blessing in my life because it made me realize, like, that is not the path to go down. I had a very good discernment, right? And so I've been able to really understand. And I think a lot of people get scared to talk about things they go through in life, but I'm like, no, own it. I'm sure, like, when I talk to people, most people have probably been in an abusive family. Like, I was. Most people maybe didn't have a mom growing up. Most people have been around drugs. Like, I've been around all that kind of stuff. I'm grateful for that now because it's made me who I am today. And it's made me realize, like, door to door is easy. If you emotionally can't handle this, like, you obviously haven't gone through hard things yet. For me, I'm over here. When I was knocking doors a lot, I would be like, you know, what? Am I gonna let that person that just yelled at me dictate my life when I over here had my mom leave me die from drugs? Like, you know, I get real about it, but I'm like, that this ain't nothing. Like, I can keep knocking doors if I can deal with this. And so I always tell people, too, like, buy, you know, rely on the things you went through too. We've all had our experiences, right? I'm sure you've had your childhood, and people here think about those things often and how that, you know, that's. That's good in a sense. We need to go through hard things to get to the. To the good stuff.
- [47:56]
Podcast Host
Are you lds?
- [47:57]
Max Ganley
Yes.
- [47:57]
Podcast Host
Okay. Because I was going to say that the best part about our faith is understanding that, like, these trials are good for us to actually gain the testimony and draw closer to our, like, a higher being in our heavenly Father as well. And I think one of my mentors also mentioned that, like, life does not happen to you, but it happens for you as well. So when you mention all this stuff and you think about thinking, grow rich. Every single person that has reached that level of success, that level of success came with a lot of scars, pain, anguish, all the different stuff. Because throughout the marathon, they built that character of who they are as well. And that. That quote, I'm gonna. I'll say that you told me that quote, but that's a very, very beautiful quote. I was like, what did he say early on? And then you mentioned it again. I' sorry, I'm gonna take out my phone and type that.
- [48:42]
Max Ganley
And it's like my mom, I, I learned from my mom of all her mistakes, you know, brilliant people learn from us. I learned from hers that what she was doing was not right. So therefore I thought, okay, I'm not gonna go do drugs. I'm not gonna let that be my, my out from all the. You know what I mean? So that again, I, I look back at my life and I'm like, man, that is true. It's like, that's why you need that reference group and you need good people because people, you can't put a price tag on that, right? When I have recruited people, I'm like, I don't think they can put a price tag on the amount of money I can help them make outside of solar, which actually makes up maybe giving up a couple hundred bucks on a deal. You know, if I can go make them a couple hundred bucks of cash flow, that's worth way more, you know, things. So yeah, I love that principle because that's how I view life. And what I always look at people of, okay, what can I learn from you that's good and bad? And the bad, I'm going to discern it. I'm going to realize, do I do it or not, you know, what's the outcome? Right? I look at my mom when she died, you know, as I mentioned earlier, my mom got half the money, my dad got millions of dollars. When she died, she had $32 in her bank account.
- [49:41]
Podcast Host
That's so sad.
- [49:42]
Max Ganley
She lost everything. We had a 10 acre horse ranch in Scottsdale, 60 horse. Like we had, like she had everything. She could have just been set so logically I looked at it, I said, man, this beautiful woman is dying right now. And not only is she dying, but she literally lost everything. That's going to be my choice of not following her path. So I stayed away from all that stuff and so did my sisters. We're both, we're all married now, we're all have children. So it's been cool to kind of like learn from others experiences as well. And I don't think people tap into that much. A lot of people try to push away bad things that happen to them. I like embrace them because then you learn from them.
- [50:17]
Podcast Host
So powerful. Thanks for sharing that, man. I really appreciate that. I just wanted to ask two more questions as we conclude right now. And I think it's, I just love just the entrepreneurial rawness. It's just so real. Like everything that you just said and just transparency is so important because like I said, we so focus on the last number as well. What would you say is the best part, not the hardest part, but the best part of being an entrepreneur?
- [50:46]
Max Ganley
I'd say, you know, I don't know who says these quotes, but it's like how, you know, money doesn't buy happiness. It does like money buys happiness because money buys freedom. You know, whoever. A lot people of gurus say that.
- [50:56]
Podcast Host
So probably Ed. My lead. Probably. That sounds like an ed.
- [50:59]
Max Ganley
Yeah, but it's true. It's, it's. I think the best thing about time for newer is, is one you can go. There's no cap on what you can accomplish, right? There's no, there's no floor and there's no ceiling. But if you're a make it happen kind of person, all it's about is what is my ceiling, how can I get there? But I love being entrepreneur because it's like, dude, it allows me to buy time, to spend time, you know, buy, you know, it allows me to make money, which allows me to have freedom, which brings happiness because I just had my third kid two weeks ago.
- [51:26]
Podcast Host
Congratulations, brother.
- [51:27]
Max Ganley
Thank you. Thank you. So like, by having this freedom, I can go spend time, you know, with, with my kids, even though my wife will say I'm not, but I'm working on that. You know, there's a balance. You know, she's like, hey, what's more important? You know, we'll get to that. But I'd say that's a big blessing. And then I just again, I love the fact that you the, the whole go to college, like that whole model is dead. Your return on investment for doing the normal thing in the society is wrong. The amount of debt, you going to go to school to go get a career now saying if you're gonna be a lawyer trades, there's probably a good return there. But I just look at that. I'm like, man, being entrepreneur is the best. When you go to become a doctor, you got to trade two things. Life, you got to trade time and a ton of money to then make a return to do what we do. Again, this is entrepreneurship on training wheels. All door to door is asking you to do is just trade your time and then your return on investment is a lot quicker. You can go make doctor money in 12 months. Where doctors, it usually takes them 10 years. So I've always loved entrepreneurship and specifically like door to door, because I can go in just trade time. I don't have to Trade money to then go make my return on investment in one year versus having to then wait eight to 10 years. That's so powerful, if that makes sense.
- [52:40]
Podcast Host
No, that's perfect. That's perfect. And then because the, the podcast is called the Code to Winning, I always ask people this towards the end because it's obvious the insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow. Everyone's got a different definition of what winning is. And I mean, with all the golden nuggets you gave, I don't know what they're gonna answer for this one. But like, in your opinion for Max Ganley, what does the term winning mean for you?
- [53:04]
Max Ganley
Again, I'm very systematic. Winning, to me is. Is being dialed in on your KPIs. So knowing what your key performance indicators are, number two, it's then having a process to anything you're doing. If, even if it's not door to door, what are the. What are the key steps that you need to be focusing on, but then using the numbers? So here's like, it's examples like, I teach reps this. If you knocked 400 doors but only talked to 20 homeowners, there's a key identifier that you clearly are either knocking at the wrong time, right? If you knocked on 400 doors, you should talk. You did door to door, you should talk to like more than 20 homeowners, right? Well, see, what that should tell you is that, okay, I'm knocking at the wrong time. And most time I go talk to that rep and they're like, oh yeah, I went knocked from 10 to 2pm and I think you did door to door. Is that a productive time to knock in a normal, like, suburb? No. Right. Maybe a retirement area. Right. So see, I'd say the code of success for me is just I obsess over the KPIs. So then the buy productive is that I can preemptively understand if I'm skipping steps in my process. And that's in any aspect of life, right. If my numbers are off on my doors, I can go look at the door approach and see I'm clearly skipping a step. Majority of people you ask in life, they can't tell you what their steps are. So like most people in door to door, I ask them all the time, tell me your five steps to your door approach. They can't do it. You know, when you can simplify, you can testify. Learn that on the mission. And so I learned this principle. I'm like, man, if I can do my door approach in five steps, like six words. I could do it in 100 words. Most guys though don't do that. They don't track their numbers to then identify and then they don't know their steps and then they don't cross reference it. Right. And it's just to me, I'm like, why not? It makes it so easy. So that'd be my answer to you is again, it goes back to those two principles is obsess over knowing your KPIs so then you can preemptively avoid mishaps. Because you and I both know you've interviewed a lot of successful people. Most will tell you the reason why they're not. They don't reach their goal is they slightly get off the path. It's like an airplane. If it goes from like, do you know this answer? If you take a plane from LA to New York and it's off half a degree south, where does it end.
- [55:12]
Podcast Host
Up from LA to New York? It'll probably end up like in like a different city or country as well.
- [55:18]
Max Ganley
It's like down the Bahamas.
- [55:19]
Podcast Host
Yeah.
- [55:20]
Max Ganley
So see, the concept is like, man, just a half a degree will make you so far from your destination. The reason why I obsess over those two principles is in life you just need bumpers. You're going to get off the path. Well, if you have clear step by step guidelines. Well if you're tracking your numbers and you have guidelines, you can just make that kind of critique, that slight tweak to stay on the path to get to your end destination.
- [55:41]
Podcast Host
So powerful.
- [55:41]
Max Ganley
That makes sense.
- [55:42]
Podcast Host
No? I love that so much. Max, if you could let our guests know where they could get a hold of you if they want to try and jump into solar, or even people that are within Arizona or any other region as well where they could go if they want to buy solar as well. Viewers know.
- [55:56]
Max Ganley
Yeah, yeah, I could be better than social media. You know, my Max Ganley is my Instagram. I'm private, you can follow me. I'm not a big solar guru. I don't post a ton. I'm trying to get better at it, you know, times changing, you know, you're more than welcome to message me on there. I'm always down to get my phone number. If any of you guys too want to talk investments, I love strategizing. So if you want to reach out to me on Instagram or Facebook, I'll give you my cell phone number. We can text call if you've got ideas about investments. I'd love to talk about vice versa. I think, all that kind of stuff. It doesn't have to be just solar.
- [56:26]
Podcast Host
Awesome stuff. The code to winning. Insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow. Max Ganley, thank you so much, brother.
- [56:32]
Max Ganley
Appreciate that.