THE POWER OF CONNECTION: BREAKING FREE FROM ADDICTION || JOEY STONE || EPISODE 49

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Code To Winning

Episode 49: THE POWER OF CONNECTION: BREAKING FREE FROM ADDICTION || JOEY STONE

Host: Kagiso Dikane
Guest: Joey Philip Stone
Release Date: August 27, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode features Joey Stone—business owner, IT expert, army veteran, and founder of Refined You—who shares his deeply personal journey from addiction, trauma, and self-loathing to healing, transformation, and connection. The discussion centers around the root causes and misconceptions around addiction, the extraordinary power of human connection in recovery, navigating life as a veteran, and Joey's unique methods that underpin true and lasting transformation. The conversation balances raw vulnerability with practical tools for healing and self-development, offering hope and actionable wisdom for anyone facing personal struggles.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Addiction and the Brain: Understanding the Compulsion

• Neuroplasticity & “Brain Grooves” (00:00, 19:38)

  • Joey shares how addiction carves deep grooves in the brain, creating powerful triggers that can override rational thought:

    “If I saw a woman I thought was attractive, my brain, that lust thing would take over...images or thoughts…would come into my mind absolutely unwanted.” (00:00, 19:38)

  • He emphasizes the physiological force behind addictive urges, likening it to survival instinct:

    “Your brain is only wired to survive. And it tells you: if I don’t do this, I will die.” (19:38)

• Shame Cycle & Misconceptions (19:38, 18:26)

  • Joey dismantles stereotypes around sex addiction and addiction in general, explaining that addiction is a tool to escape pain—not a character flaw.

    “There’s this misconception…about what a sex addict is…What it actually is, is the drug of choice in the moment to cover the pain you have in your life.” (15:29)

  • Shame and isolation perpetuate the cycle, making recovery harder for many.

2. The Healing Power of Connection

• Connection Over Sobriety (19:38, 24:31)

  • The main message: Connection is the healing force for addiction.

    “It’s not sobriety. Sobriety is a byproduct of connection.” (19:38)

  • Joey describes his recovery method:

    “When I get triggered… I pick up the phone and I call one of my buddies. I’m like, ‘dang, I just got triggered.’” (19:38)

  • Surrender to a higher power—be that God or “Gravity”—is crucial. The act of “handing off” the painful compulsion enables true change.

• Transformative Results (19:38)

  • With continuous connection and "doing the work," Joey notes triggers become “incredibly rare”:

    "I've been consistently doing the work for years now, nine years daily, minute by minute sometimes… The triggers don't happen anymore." (19:38)

3. Life in the Military: Lessons, Trauma, and Brotherhood

• From Adversity to Discipline and Purpose (03:48, 05:50)

  • Joey recounts how joining the army offered discipline, belonging, and a life-saving sense of purpose:

    “Changed my life. The army gave me purpose and direction and the ability to accomplish incredibly hard things...” (06:55)

  • Lessons learned: “I can and I will. There’s literally nothing stopping me from doing what I want to do when I’m ready.” (07:50)

• Brotherhood and Connection in Service (09:06)

  • He reflects on brotherhood transcending backgrounds—“we were brothers and sisters…it didn’t matter about race… only the person at your side.” (09:06)

• Transitioning to Civilian Life & Vulnerability (15:09)

  • The struggle leaving the tightly-knit army for a world with more vulnerability and less structure—magnified by addiction and PTSD.

    “I’m a disabled veteran… My family has had to grow up with a dad that sometimes they’ve got to be afraid of… The cost is, if I didn’t do my work, the cost would have been my family.” (15:29)

  • Open communication within Joey’s family is shown as crucial for navigating recovery and trauma.

4. Facing Pain and Breaking Free: The Work of Recovery

• Recognizing You're an Addict: The Turning Point (27:31)

  • The relief Joey felt when first diagnosed, understanding that there’s a path forward:

    “…the best news I ever heard… I found out there’s joy, there’s somewhere beyond addiction if you’ll use the tools that work.” (27:31)

  • Emphasizes the societal shame around the term “addict,” and the importance of overcoming it. (30:06)

    “It’s that shame… society has painted that as like, degenerate… And I think perfection sometimes is Satan’s tool…” (30:06)

• Tools for Change (19:38, 24:31)

  • Joey outlines practical steps: recognize triggers, immediately connect with another human (accountability partner), surrender compulsion to a higher power, repeat consistently.
  • Healing is physiological—neuroplasticity means the more you choose connection, the more the brain’s “grooves” heal and the triggers fade.

• Facing Emotions, Not Just Understanding (35:47)

  • Knowledge alone isn’t healing—“Understanding doesn’t create healing.” (35:47)
  • True healing requires “catharsis”—feeling, processing, and releasing emotional pain at a body level.

5. Refind You: A New Model for Transformational Change

• Why Joey Created Refined You (43:51)

  • Dissatisfaction with traditional therapy and even group programs that became profit-driven:

    “What I did was go out and find more processes that work… We don’t make it about me… It’s about people connecting with each other.” (44:40)

  • Refined You emerged from personal and familial crisis, with a focus on helping people rediscover ("refind") their authentic self.

• The Program: Structure and Philosophy (54:34+)

  • Part One: Peeling off “masks” (inauthentic personas developed in youth), identifying what you truly want in life, and re-learning honest self-connection.

    “Part one is about taking off the masks… Not through talking, but by doing.” (54:34)

  • Part Two: Anchoring positive identity, trust, and connection. Unlearning learned biases (including race divides), confronting pain, and reaching a new, even higher “10” in living.

    “Part two is about who you are. Not a lecture—processes and feedback… the masks are gone and you’re showing up as who you are…” (56:15)

  • Results include improved relationships, better mental health, and for some dramatic physical changes (e.g., a stroke survivor regaining speech).

• Real Stories: Proof of Transformation (45:38, 51:56)

  • Joey’s cousin, a survivor of severe abuse, finds hope and declares, “I want to live. It’s my turn.” (45:38)
  • The message: Change begins with the decision—the willingness to show up and “do the work.”

6. Emotional Connection & Self-Love: The Ultimate Outcome

• From Self-Loathing to Self-Love (62:23, 64:20)

  • Joey movingly describes seeing himself in the mirror and, for the first time, feeling genuine liking—and then loving—himself.

    “For the first time in my entire life, I looked in the mirror… I like myself… and then… I loved myself.” (62:23, 64:20)

  • Emotional connection is not arrogance, but a state of being rooted in self-worth and openness.

• The Magic of Connection (75:08)

  • Joey’s succinct definition of “winning”:

    “Connection.” (75:08) “Human connection is the answer to everything you’re looking for. Self, higher power, and the people around you. It’s the freaking answer to everything you’re looking for.” (75:15)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Need for Connection:

  “It’s not sobriety. Sobriety is a byproduct of connection.” (19:38, Joey)

• On Facing the Root of Addiction:

  “Not dealing with the root causes…perpetuates the problem endlessly, because there is no mask that will…take care of it for you.” (15:29, Joey)

• On Healing and Surrender:

  “No amount of holding on as tight as you can… has ever worked for me… It’s a surrender. It’s giving it up to a higher power. And that heals your brain.” (19:38, Joey)

• On Personal Transformation:

  “For the first time in my entire life I loved myself. And reconnecting to me and that little boy… that’s changed everything.” (64:20, Joey)

• On Winning:

  “Connection.” (75:08, Joey)
  “Human connection is the answer to everything you’re looking for.” (75:15, Joey)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Addiction’s Compulsion and Neuroplasticity: 00:00, 19:38
• Military Origins & Lessons: 03:48, 05:50, 07:50
• The Power of Brotherhood: 09:06
• Transitioning to Civilian Life & PTSD: 15:29
• Pornography, Shame, and Modern Male Addiction: 18:26
• First Recovery Meeting & Breakthrough: 27:31
• Perfectionism and Childhood Lies: 30:06, 32:05
• Facing Pain vs. Understanding Pain: 35:47
• Forgiveness Practice: 36:49–41:00
• Refind You – Origin Story: 43:51
• Refind You Methodology – Structure and Results: 54:34–61:45
• Self-Love Breakthrough: 62:23, 64:20
• Defining Winning (Connection): 75:08

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Further Resources

• Refind You Website: refindyou.org
• Listeners can access free tools for connection and transformation on the website, as announced in the episode.

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Tone & Takeaways

The tone is honest, at times raw, and permeated by hope, humor, and steadfast belief in human capacity for change. Joey’s blend of military bluntness, candor about struggle, and passion for transformative work creates an episode that is as moving as it is instructive.

If you’ve faced trauma, addiction, or the pain of self-disconnection, or you simply want to unlock new levels of connection in your life, this conversation offers not just understanding, but a roadmap for real change.

Transcript

[A]

The tools that I have been taught actually work. My brain is different in the past when. And I'm going to go straight at it, okay? Because that's just who I am. You'll notice that about me. If I saw a woman I thought was attractive, my brain, that lust thing would take over. And images or thoughts of being with her maybe romantically or sexually or whatever else would come into my mind absolutely unwanted. I didn't want that. And yet my brain would just trigger and trigger and trigger and go there and go there. I want to talk about the tools for a second. One of the greatest tools I ever found, because what is happening in my brain as I understand this, and the ability to rewrite the neuroplasticity and the. And the grooves, what's called the grooves in your brain that have been there for a long time. If you're an addict, it's all of these triggers kick in, and every one of them shoots you into this big ravine that's dug. And it's like, go look at porn. Go get sexual gratification. Go, whatever. Because that will take you out of pain the fastest. Your brain is only wired to survive. And it tells you, if I don't do this, I will die. Like, it's. It. I have felt those moments where I cried in a ball on the floor where I'm like, I don't want to hurt my wife by looking at pornography anymore. And it's like, look at it or you will die. Which to most people, if you're not an addict and you haven't struggled with this man, they don't get it. They don't get it. It's not just like, stop looking at it. What didn't I think of that? You know, it's. It's this compulsion that takes over your body in such a way that you feel like you will die. And there are, like, two or three simple things that you can do. And the number one that most people don't understand is that connection is the healing force for addiction. It's not sobriety. Sobriety is a byproduct of connection. And when I get triggered, which is incredibly rare these days, it happens, but it's incredibly rare because I've been consistently doing the work.

[B]

The code to winning insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow. Today we have an amazing guest that's joined us in the studio. I'm going to give you a brief introduction of who we have as our guest today. He goes by the name of Joey Philip Stone. He's a business owner he's an IT expert. He's an army veteran, facilitator, founder of Refined you, which is rooted in feedback, self discovery, growth and personal development and achievement as well. So, ladies and gentlemen, it's going to be amazing. Interview. If you are curious about understanding and learning a bit more about overcoming addiction, recovery, finding your true self as well, this is the episode for you. And we're grateful to have him in the studio today. So without further ado, our amazing guest, Joey Philip Stone.

[A]

Here we go.

[B]

Can I tell you, I got the Filip from LinkedIn?

[A]

That's hilarious. I'm like, I'm gonna use Philip is my first name. So that's really. Yeah, it's Philip Joseph Stone. There's a whole story there. And we're so not going there today.

[B]

Okay, but that sounds so British, I won't lie. It looks like you're from, like, a place called Manchester in the United Kingdom or something like that.

[A]

In the army, they called Stone Phillips because you go by your last name.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Sergeant Stone.

[B]

Oh, wow. Now, we'll. We'll go into it a later stam. I want to know. Can you just. Let's start off, like, just straight into it. You spoke about the army, obviously, when you spoke about your first name as well. You served, obviously, in the military. What initially drew you to enlist, and how did that chapter shape your identity today?

[A]

Hmm. So diving into the army for me was. It was almost an ultimatum. I was. I was just doing nothing with my life. High school dropout at the time. I ran away from home at 16, lived on my own since then. And one day I called my mom or she called me. I don't even know how she got my number because she didn't even know where I was at. And she said, joey, you need to either go on a mission or you need to join the Army. And I thought, well, I guess I could join the army because I was not, like, church material, that's for sure. And so I looked up the recruiter's phone number, gave him a phone call, went into the office, and I said, what job in the army can they hit you? Like, I want to go through the most hardcore training. Which one? I don't want to be afraid anymore. That's what I said to the guy. He's like, oh, you want Special Forces, but you got to score good on the asvab. I'm like, I don't even know what the ASVAB is. And. And that set me off down my path. And actually, it's funny because it really started way before that. As a kid, I played army endlessly. I grew up with a creek behind my yard and we had rope swings and we had obstacle courses. I would build. I would build obstacle courses for my sisters or the neighbors. And I would dig like two foot holes. This is so messed up. I'm going to say this out loud, but I totally did. This is my life. I dug like holes and I would cover them with sticks and then with dirt so it looked like the ground. And then they'd have to crawl through barbed wire and swing across the creek and kids would go running down and fall in two foot holes and have to fight through. And I mean, I always wanted. Wanted to get rid of bad guys. So I mean, that's. That was it for me.

[B]

And which years were you active?

[A]

Let's see. I joined in 2003 and I got out in 2009.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wasn't that the period of time where the Afghanistan kind of like post 9 11, like.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it was Operation Iraqi Freedom.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

There was a handful of operations in there, but the one that I went to Iraq for 15 months originally, we deployed for 12, and at month nine, they called us all into this meeting and said, we're extending three months. So we thought we had three months left and we were going home. We were seeing the end and all of a sudden we had six months left. Man, I was pissed. I was so pissed. We had an on post gym and I went in and just beat the living crap out of a punching bag for like 20 minutes. Because, I mean, if you think about it, I left home and my son was six months old and when I came home, he was two. So I wanted to go home to my son.

[B]

Do you regret not choosing the mission route or were you grateful that you chose the Army?

[A]

Oh, so grateful. Changed my life. Changed my life. I didn't. I. I don't know what I missed for the, for the mission, but the army gave me purpose and direction and the ability to accomplish incredibly hard things, no matter what's literally being thrown in my face.

[B]

I love that so much. And I've noticed that usually veterans and people that have enlisted and served as well, there's a certain level of aura and discipline that they take out of that as well. Of course, there's a lot of trauma as well when you get to experience and see what you end up seeing. But if there's one thing that I've taken and whenever I keep watching those army sergeant speeches, if you want to change the world, start by making Your bed, you know, like, absolutely. And I want to know what was the, what would you say was one of the best lessons that you learned from serving and what would you take from that that you apply today?

[A]

Man, that's a loaded question for me. So many things, but the one that's just ringing in my head is that I can and I will. That there's literally nothing stopping me from doing what I want to do when I'm ready. And. And it doesn't matter hell or high water or enemy forces or anything else. When it's time to go, it's time to go. And there is no force on this earth that can stop me from going there.

[B]

It's powerful. That's powerful. And I don't know, I always. Some of my favorite movies are always based on a true story, war related movies. I think I watched one with like Chris Hemsworth, 12 strong. Whatever. Whatever may be. I just. One of the things that I like the most is the mentality of never leave a man behind. The fraternity that's involved there, the teamwork, the brotherhood, like it just gives you chills every time I keep watching. Would you say it's very similar to those movies, like the experience you end up witnessing while actually being in, in the field?

[A]

Yeah, there is, there's a great deal of that. The. In fact, as I have talked to more and more veterans that are. That are no longer in the military, the one thing that I've noticed most above anything else is that missing feeling of brotherhood. It didn't matter if you were from the Bronx in New York and you were like a, you were in gangs coming up or if you were a country boy from the middle of Kentucky or you were, you know, a hippie from, from somewhere on the west coast up there, man. When it was time, we came together and it didn't matter. And we were brothers and sisters and it didn't matter. It didn't matter about race and it didn't matter about anything else. But the person in front of you and the person to your side and the person on your back.

[B]

I love that very much. Would you have a story that sticks out to you that you feel like was kind of life changing for you while you were in the army?

[A]

Oh, dude, I, we could do, we could do hours on this. I my. I have, I guess you could say an idactic memory or whatever. And so I nearly remember everything. I can remember what people are wearing and all of the feelings and the emotions and the expressions. And so my brain works in videos and I have Tons of videos stocked up, man. You know, the one I'll dive into is this one. And it kind of touches on spirituality and my belief in a God for me. And so I was in special Forces training and I was, I was doing an advanced land navigation course. So they teach you to give you some context, they teach you how to find a 10 digit grid coordinate anywhere on the earth with a map, a compass and a protractor. And that's kind of as far as I'll go into that, that. And then they throw a 65 pound rucksack on you and say do it. And, and you've got to find all these locations in the woods by yourself through the nighttime and through the daytime. And there was one particular area and I had, I had mapped out on my map where I shouldn't go. Kind of some boundaries. There's. Land navigation is all about boundaries, finding where your stop points are. You know, if you get this, you're too far. If you go to this on the right, you're too far to the right. You go to this far and you kind of bounce off of points. At least that's how I did. And I, I knew that I should be able to walk. Have you ever been to North Carolina?

[B]

Yes, Raleigh. We went to the beach there. Me, a friend and a bunch of beautiful girls.

[A]

Yes. That was not my North Carolina experience, I'll tell you right now. Mine was the swamps and the spiders and the vines, man. And I think there are about seven different types of thorn bushes and thorn vines in the, in the, what's called a draw. So in, especially in North Carolina, a draw is, is on a map where the land comes together like this. And in North Carolina that means moisture. And moisture means plants. Okay. Always, always just crazy thick. You could call it jungle, it's, it wouldn't be considered jungle, but it's forest and just foliage like you couldn't imagine. And so I had this point, it was like my third point that I needed to navigate to. And, and I knew I only needed to go like 200 meters across this little draw and get to the other side. And my point should be right there. And so I started walking. And as I went into this really thick, dense forest, I did the number one mistake that I know of in, in land navigation. I stopped looking at my compass. Now you don't stare at it because then you'll be way off, but you set a point, you make sure your azimuth's right and you go there and then you set a point and you go There. And I stopped looking, and I started following the path of least resistance. And so instead of going straight across this draw, I started sucking my way into the draw to the very worst part of the entire map. This massive, massive swamp. And I'm fighting and I'm fighting and I'm fighting and I'm fighting and I'm fighting. And there were literally times where I'm walking five, six feet off the ground on fallen logs, across, like, just. And again, you always have your 65 pound rucksack on. And there finally came a point where I felt so lost and so alone that I screamed, which you're totally not allowed to do. Hello? Is anybody out here? Crickets. Nothing. And I'm like, frick. And all of a sudden, my mom's voice came into my mind, and it was just like, what do you do when you're lost? And I was like, all right, God, will you hook me up, bro? I'm super lost. Will you please help me? And I literally had a voice in my mind, say, turn around at exactly 180 degrees. So I turned around and it said, start walking and follow the path of least resistance, and I'll lead you out. And I started walking. And I. Now, mind you, I had been lost already for two hours. It was about 45 minutes later, I popped out of the woods about 10ft from where I walked in, and about 50 meters to the left, there was a path right across the river, straight to my next point. And the lesson that I learned, because you asked me, what lesson did I learn? Like, what was the greatest lesson? And there's tons, but this one is, never stop looking at your azimuth. Don't ever take your eyes off where you're going. That's how you get lost. And when you get lost, don't do it alone.

[B]

That's both so powerful and obviously in our spiritual beliefs, when it stand. When life gets too hard to stand, kneel. Ask for proper guidance from a higher power. Whether you're Christian or not, you believe in a higher power, that there's somebody out there that's bigger than you, that's willing to help you as well. And we know in our religion, it's our heavenly Father as well. So thank you so much for that.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

I appreciate that. There's a lot. And I want to try and, like, transition with this because I loved all you shared. I really appreciate that. And I think it's a big lesson we can learn from them. And how do you navigate the transition from military discipline to civilian vulnerability, especially through Addiction and recovery.

[A]

Yeah. So to be clear, I am a recovering addict. Recovering addict from drugs, alcohol, sex, all of it. Like, all of it. And I will tell you this by far. You know, people get this misconception. So let me just. Let me just nab this for a second. And I'm about to go way off of your question. Where we're going. Yeah, there's this misconception, or at least I feel like there is about. About what a sex addict is, that it's like, I don't run around humping telephone poles. It's not like that. That's not what's going on. Okay. I know. Weird image. Weird image is how we do in my. And what it actually is, is it's the drug of choice in the moment to cover the pain that you have in your life. That's what addiction is. That's what I've learned it to be. And whether it was alcohol to numb the pain or to numb the shame or whatever it was, or drugs or lustful images or lust towards other people, it's all intended to cover the pain. And so not dealing with the root causes of the pain perpetuates the problem endlessly because there is no mask that will. That will take care of it for you. That just doesn't work. And so to kind of come back to your question, the transition out was hard. Is hard. I'm a disabled veteran. You know, I've got my disabled status, like 50 or 60% or whatever it is from PTSD, from war and other things. And I'll tell you, the cost is that my family has had to grow up with a dad that sometimes they've got to be afraid of. Not that I would hurt them or whatever, but that some moments are scary and hard and when I get triggered. In fact, I've had one safe fourth of July in. Since I've been out. I've been out for almost 16 years. And. And I would go and hide under a beanbag chair, believe it or not, in my basement for seven hours to numb out the. The sounds of the fireworks. And we started finding out we could go to the mountains because there's not as a lot of bombs in the mountains. And I know it's not bombs, and I also don't know that it's not bombs, you know, and gunshots and other things. And so the cost is, if I didn't do my work, the cost would have been my family. But I've been doing my work. And so the cost is. Guys, dad's not okay, right? Now I love you. Leave me alone. I'm in the basement and my kids are like, cool, love you. We'll bring you ice cream. And we communicate at our house. So I don't know if that answers your question, but that's, that's where we went with it, at least for now.

[B]

I appreciate you sharing that. And when you spoke earlier on about addiction is usually a void that people end up using to try and cover the pain that they're experiencing. Obviously, studies have even revealed and concur with what you're saying over time with the biggest problem that men are facing today is the new drug of pornography. And, and like, that dopamine that's. That's been released and the dopamine that's been exposed to, like, that men seem to be, you know, be able to possess. And the shame that the, that the world seems to paint, like, as you made that example of what a sex addict may potentially be is also what's, you know, keeping men in that bottle where they are afraid to actually expose and like, you know, come to truth with, like, what their struggles are going on about. And that's why I like what you shared, because I feel like right now it's. Satan is using that shame, like, for his own, like, purpose and drive to try and bring down. Because, you know, as soon as men can overcome that, like that lustful thought and all those different stuff, then he's unconquerable. Would you want to add on that as well?

[A]

Oh, dude, so many things. So many things. Here's what I know. The tools that I have been taught actually work. My brain is different in the past, when, when. And I'm going to go straight at it, okay? Because that's just who I am. You'll notice that about me. If I saw a woman I thought was attractive, my brain, that lust thing would take over and, and images or thoughts of being with her maybe romantically or sexually or whatever else would come into my mind absolutely unwanted. I didn't want that. And yet my brain would just trigger and trigger and trigger and go there and go there. And you talk about the shame spiral. Well, I want to talk about the tools for a second. One of the greatest tools I ever found. Because what is happening in my brain as I understand this, and the ability to rewrite the neuroplasticity and the grooves, we'll call them the grooves in your brain that have been there for a long time. If you're an addiction, it's all of these, all of these triggers kick in and every One of them shoots you into this big ravine that's dug, and it's like, go look at porn. Go get sexual gratification. Go, whatever. Because that will take you out of pain the fastest. Your brain is only wired to survive. And it tells you, if I don't do this, I will die. Like, it's. It. I have felt those moments where I've cried in a ball on the floor where I'm like, I don't want to hurt my wife by looking at pornography anymore. And it's like, look at it or you will die. Which to most people, if you're not an addict and you haven't struggled with this man, they don't get it. They don't get it. It's not just like, stop looking at it. What didn't I think of that? You know, it's. It's this compulsion that takes over your body in such a way that you feel like you will die. And there are, like, two or three simple things that you can do. And the number one that most people don't understand is that connection is the healing force for addiction. It's not sobriety. Sobriety is a byproduct of connection. And when I get triggered, which is incredibly rare these days, it happens, but it's incredibly rare because I've been consistently doing the work for years now, nine years daily, minute by minute sometimes. And the trigger comes in. Look at pornography or lust after a woman or whatever it is. I pick up the phone and I call one of my buddies. I'm like, dang, I just got triggered. I got way triggered. Here's what happened. Saw this woman, and for whatever reason, it just was like, I want to go talk to her. Like, that's the trigger now instead of like, I gotta sleep with this person or whatever, right? And I'm not saying I ran around and slept with tons of people. That's not what I'm saying either, to be clear. And that's the progression of addiction, though. That's what happens un dealt with. And instead, I pick up the phone and I'm like, dude, Eric, I'm having a rough time. And with you as my witness, I surrender to God or your higher power, whatever it is, gravity. I knew guys in recovery that they know gravity is a higher power than them, and so they're cool to surrender to gravity. And when I think surrender, I want you to imagine that this is how I do it, because I see the world in pictures and videos vividly. And I imagine I'm holding this most horrible thing that My brain wants to do right now, to not be in pain anymore. The pornography image or the thought or whatever it is. And for me, I'm handing that to God. I'm handing that to my savior. And I'm saying, I'm giving this to you. Because no amount of holding on as tight as you can. No amount of holding on as tight as you can, saying, God, take this from me, has ever worked for me or any of the guys, the hundreds of guys that I've worked with in addiction. It's a surrender. It's giving it up to a higher power. And that heals your brain. It changes the chemistry of your brain. And the more you reach out and connect and connect and connect and connect, Rather than going down into the addiction cycle, your brain heals, and the triggers don't happen anymore. Like, the triggers literally don't happen anymore, which I thought was impossible. Impossible. Five years ago, I just thought I was destined to go to hell. That's what I believed. Because of my religion and because. Because of the mistakes I had made. I'm a piece of trash. I'm destined to go to hell. Might as well give up. Might as well give up. Over and over. That was the lie satan told me. Wow.

[B]

And just to add on that, it might slightly be off topic, but it's something very similar to that. When I served on my mission the last six months, when I was. With my mission present, I was, like, their assistant and stuff. And there was a time in our mission where my mission presence wife. Amazing, amazing woman.

[A]

She.

[B]

She decided to teach when we would go with them. My companion I to all, like, the zones. She was teaching the law of chastity Differently than before. Because obviously, you grow up your entire life, Especially, like, within, like, our church, and you keep hearing the don't, don't, don't, don't do, don't do, don't do, don't do. And I've always had that, like, perception. Obviously, when you're super young, when you tell Simba, don't go to the elephant graveyard, or they're manic, you're like, what the heck is over there? But when she got up there, she taught the law of chastity, of the beauty of it. The beauty of preserving yourself, the beauty of the intimacy that brings an emotional connection between your husband and wife. The beauty of creation, the beauty of bond. And then I remember her teaching it to all the different zones. And then I realized that the more you start teaching positives about something so sacred and beautiful, and then it's Easy for people to fully give heed and obey such a commandment. I know it's slightly different to, like, what you were saying, but I actually think that that changed perspective completely as well. Can you add on that real quick?

[A]

Yeah, it all ties in briefly. That's. That's a statement my wife and I have. What I learned was sex is optional. That's a crazy statement for somebody in this predicament. Did you know that sex is optional in life? You won't actually die if you don't have. I didn't know that. I didn't believe that. And it's true. And one of the phrases that we kind of live by at this point is that we. Connection. So let's see. It's funny. It's ingrained into my soul at this point. My wife and I will check in whether we feel safe to even be sexually intimate with each other at this point. And sexual intimacy is a byproduct of connection in my marriage. Now I don't use my wife. I couldn't say that in the past, sadly, but I could say it now. I will say no if I'm not safe. So we can deal with the emotional things going on. And then if we decide to be sexually intimate, it's like, boom, game on, brother. You know.

[B]

So anyway, and now this ties in. You know, addiction often isolates people. What helped you reconnect yourself during your first recovery? Because, you know, connection is so important. What helped you reconnect yourself from your first recovery?

[A]

You know, it was eye opening for me to find out I was an addict. That was the best news I ever heard. And I heard that news nine and a half, ten years ago in Houston. We lived in Houston. And I was at another crossroads because, like you said, isolation. I was deciding whether to. To divorce again for however many times, which had nothing to do with my incredible level 10 wife. Had everything to do with the broken child that was still trying to run and the shame and the spirals and all the things. And I'm sitting in front of my. My bishop, who's. Who's a religious leader, and I said, I don't know what's wrong with me. I just, I'm. I just must be destined to go to hell. I don't know what's wrong with me. I don't want to do this stuff. And, and, and there's. I'm sure there are going to be people that are like, he's just a weak son of a bitch. And it's like, hey, let's go on A ruck march. Find out how weak I am. And that's not it. That's not it. It's like something was fundamentally out of alignment for me, and I didn't understand how to find the healing balm. And my bishop said, best bishop I ever had, probably. And if my other bishops are watching, you're cool too. And he said, I don't know how to help you, but I know someone who does. And he sent us to a therapist, and the therapist said, oh, you're an addict. And I'm like, an addict. What is that? I didn't even heard of that. I'm from Lehigh, Utah, back when it was a farm, dude. I grew up with like, pigs and goats and sheep. Like, my brother slept with a pygmy goat in his bed. Or like, that's how we grew up, man. And so I didn't know what an addict was. And I went to this recovery meeting for the very first time, and I see this group of people laughing. These men. It was all a men's group. And I'm sitting here and I'm like, this is the worst day of my entire life. My world is ending. Everything is horrible. And you assholes are laughing. How could you be laughing right now in this room? And then I found out. After years of recovery, I found out there's joy. There's somewhere beyond addiction if you'll use the tools that work, that have worked for hundreds and hundreds of thousands of other people.

[B]

And I think it's that shame. Often people don't want to get associated with the term like addict. They. They often because of society has just painted that as like, degenerate or paraplegic or like, you're not human. And I think that shame is what draws people because I've had a loved one struggle with perfection to the point where it took them. And I think perfection sometimes when is Satan's tool to try and play in your head that you are less than what you currently are. And you can't see beyond the then and then. You just see yourself in this critical and painful moment as well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it only happens you start realizing when this hits close to home that how crazy it can actually be as well with the perfection. Have you ever struck with a bit of perfection yourself?

[A]

Perfection is not enough. Mine was always not enough. I'm. My, my. Heck, we'll pull the covers off of. Of even refined you. And one of the processes we do in refined you, it's a part two process. So you already. You gotta. You gotta go through part One, to get to this part two process. But you, you work through and identify this alternate name that you've been calling yourself or that you live by. It's almost this underlying set of phrases that everyone so far that I've ever met that have come through the training has. And mine were stupid, useless, pervert, destined to fail. Those were. Those were running my life until I did something to get them out of my body because they were stuck in my very cells. And that's. Those are the processes we do inside of our training is we get rid of those freaking lies that people are carrying around. Because from. From my experience. What. And I'm not a trained therapist. Right? That's. That's not my profession. But from my experience. And I'm kind of delving off of your question. So.

[B]

No.

[A]

If we want to come. Okay.

[B]

No, no, please.

[A]

From my experience as a child. Every one of us have experiences as children and mom says something or dad says something and maybe, maybe you experienced a real abuse. Like, you know, and you were abused. And as a child. Kids don't rationalize things. Well, Mom's just doing her best. No, as a five year old. As an eight year old. You don't say Mom's doing her best. It's. I'm sad. There must be something wrong with me. And I feel a certain way based on what mom did or dad did. And I create a belief about myself or I cut a part of myself off because of this thing I experienced. And I'm still running my life with that same exact belief. I must just be too stupid. I didn't do math right. In third grade. I literally. Joey got up, ran out the fire escape and ran home in third grade with a teacher yelling at me. I actually posted a funny video about that. I shared that story online and yelled mean things at the slow teacher behind me. That was the kind of kid I was. And I just decided I was too stupid. This is one of my beliefs until I got rid of that out of my body. So I do not remember your question whatsoever. That's where we're at right now, man.

[B]

That's the go to ending.

[A]

Love it. That's the way this works.

[B]

So I gotta give our viewers just a brief introduction. Ryan. Talking about what I'm about to ask right now. So I met Joey actually for the first time this weekend. A friend of mine had the most amazing transformation from the small time I've known her. And like she experienced a baptism and it was some of the. Probably the most emotional testimony I've heard. After she was baptized and stuff from her, considering her life experiences as well, which is kind of going to what I'm saying. And these friends of mine have been inviting me because I've personally experienced grief. They've been inviting me to refine you for quite some time. And when I'm, you know, spoke to Joey, I loved how he changed my perspective because I've always struggled with the fact that I am not less than. I'm not labeled as a struggling person. I've always strived to just feel like, listen, I don't need no, like, support group because I've always, you know, thought those to be one of those AA Anonymous. Hi, my name is kg. Hi, kg. I'm a recovering alcoholic, you know, so that's why I want to give a brief introduction of that as well. So. So that's why when I met you and you kind of like really went in depth, what refine you is when I experienced grief, the first person I spoke to was obviously my dad, my bishop, my psychologist, therapist. I got that all prepared in advance and try and tackle it. But what I realized is that sometimes with grief, you run away from the problem. You end up finding voids, you end up finding things to fill it out. And then it comes in waves when it hits you because you can never fully be okay, it's going to be a different life. But when they kept saying something like, no, you face it. I was being very confrontational with them. I'm like, no, what do you mean? I'm not going to face it. I worked very hard to where I am. Like, no one can ever tackle it the way I have. I'm proud of myself. She's like, yes, but you have to face it. You have to feel it and you have to understand it. And I want to kind of touch in and talk a bit about like this whole process and refine you. If you don't mind, can we go into that right now? Can you just touch a lot about this, facing it?

[A]

Yeah, I want to. A mentor of mine taught me this. And I'm not going to share their names. We're not in good graces anymore. But this, the lessons this person taught me were invaluable. Changed my whole life, changed my whole perspective. And there's this concept of understanding being the ultimate method to deal with your problems. If I could just understand it. There is massive room for understanding. Because without any understanding, we're lost anyway. Yeah. And when you understand something only there's no healing. Understanding doesn't create healing. And let Me explain if I understand forgiveness. I'm guessing most viewers of this understand some level of forgiveness. Forgiveness is about who, by the way, who is forgiveness about?

[B]

For you?

[A]

Yeah, it's entirely for you.

[B]

It's definitely for you.

[A]

It has nothing to do with the other person forgiving someone else for. For something they did. It also doesn't mean you jump back into relationships. You don't. If someone stole from you, you don't give them your checkbook. Like, it's not that. That's not forgiveness. Forgiveness is saying, I'm unchaining myself from this past thing and I'm reclaiming my power, and you're going to do you. And the only reason I know for someone to not forgive another human is to try to punish them. And the only person you're punishing is yourself. And here's the deal. A person who understands forgiveness and doesn't forgive has no benefit of forgiveness. And a person who doesn't understand anything about forgiveness but knows how to just forgive gets every benefit of forgiveness in their life. And it's the difference between understanding and becoming. And that's. That's how I would say that forgiveness.

[B]

Sometimes can be very hard. It really can. Especially when it's. When there's a certain level of trust, you know? And I found a point where I realized that sometimes by holding away a grudge and just like, putting your pride aside, it's easier said than actually done. Because sometimes you get hurt by the people you trust the most. And that's a hard thing. That's why I've got to learn that it is about you. It doesn't mean necessarily accepting, taking back, but it means you are throwing that thing away, you know, another. And it's. It's hard. I'm not gonna come here and stand, say, oh, no. Forgive and forget. It's like, gosh dang, sometimes I want to go out there, get some punching bags, and say, listen, yeah, mate, you know what I'm saying? That's.

[A]

That's part of our process. We may have punching bags sometimes. I don't know. So here's the crazy thing. So I was in. This was. I don't know, over a year ago, had a. Had a business endeavor go really bad with some people and heartbreaking. I saw these people as more than just friends. They were family. And it just ripped my heart out to. To. To be treated the way I felt I was treated. And. And one day be all in, and one day, the next day be all out. Heartbreaking and painful. And. And I made those Choices, too. I own my choices. And. And I chose. It was no longer a place for me, no longer a safe place for me. And the pain there was massive, and the promises were massive that were promised to my wife and I and Yada. And I decided, what if I could learn to forgive this guy and this guy, what could be possible in my life? And so I went to work. So I went in my closet, and I pictured every single one of this guy's family members and him. And I thought about his life. And I sat there in that space of him as a human, probably doing the best he could. Probably. I don't know. And I prayed for every single one of those people, all the things that I want for me. Peace and love and connection and happiness and success and the things that I want. And I pictured and imagined these people's family members. And every time I felt resentment and anger towards them, I would go find a space and I would pray for them. All the things I wanted for me, pray for them to have all of these things, regardless of the resentment and the hate and the anger. And it healed me. And it didn't happen in one day. But the hate's gone, the resentment's gone. And the forgiveness is real and permanent for me because it's just not about me. We all make choices, and at the end of the day, forgiveness for me is unchaining myself from something rather than say, no, I'm standing right here and I'm not going to move. And you remember that story from Tell me if this sounds familiar. When I was a kid, I totally did this. My. My mom was mad at me for something. I probably broke a window or something like that. I should get in trouble for you. And I'm a little kid, and I'm. I'm thinking to myself, well, I'm going in my room and I'm not going to eat. I'm not going to eat dinner. Ha. That'll show her, right? And I'm sitting in my room and I. And. And I'm sitting there like, she is being punished right now. I'm not going to eat dinner. And right. And then I'm sitting there a little longer and I actually thought to myself, and this legitimately. I remember this as a child, multiple times doing this. And you know what? I hope I die because that will really get hurt, because she will really feel bad about being mad at me because I'm. That's what not forgiving is doing to your soul. You're sitting there starving. It's not about giving permission to somebody it isn't. And that's the fear most of the time, the fears I hear about forgiveness because we dive into forgiveness in part one. That's day two, second half of the day. I have about a 30 minute thing about forgiveness. But you already just did a whole bunch of real work to get that crap out of your body in the first place. Catharsis, we do a lot of catharsis and stuff and so very guided, very, very, very powerful. And what people experience is when they go back around mom or they go back around dad, or they go back around brother or sister or whoever. It's like that, that energy that I used to have towards my mom just wasn't there. I was waiting for her to say the same old thing she always says and me to get pissed like I always did. And it just didn't happen. What did you do? And I'm like, what did you do? You did it. I'm not a freaking magician. You healed your yourself. You did that by doing the work. That's it. It's not about me. So anyway, way off topic, but man, this stuff lights me up. If you can't tell I'm a person who's, who's walked it and implemented it and I live it and I don't hide and lie and pretend that I'm some perfect coach or whatever bull crap that I see out there. I hate that. I hate that it causes me pain. It's like, bro, do you know how successful you would be if you were just real? Just be like, just show up, show up and be vulnerable and watch what happens. Watch the like tens of thousands of people rather than the dozens of people that will be ready to learn some things from you. At least that's been my experience. And I don't know, maybe, maybe some people wouldn't be like that. I don't know. But that's been my experience.

[B]

This perfectly segues actually to the next topic that I want to touch on. While we already spoke about arifind you but I want to know what inspired you to start refine you and how does that particularly differ from the traditional self help and therapy that we are more accustomed to?

[A]

Yeah. So to be clear, I've done therapy for. I did therapy weekly for eight years. I did, man, I did weekly emdr. And if you know what that is, I did that for almost five years straight from all the trauma. That's trauma work. And anyway, and, and it was powerful and helped and I couldn't get over the last phrases that were stuck in My body and I went through a training program that, that is very similar to what we do. At least the processes are the way.

[B]

They spoke about on Sunday.

[A]

Yeah, the way, the way that they do it is not the way that I do it. I feel ours is way more powerful because what I did was go out and find more processes that work and I measure my results, my results everywhere. And I don't make it about me. Many organizations make it about the trainer and worship the trainer and yada yada. We don't do that. It's about the people connecting with each other way more than anything else. And so my wife and I were in another organization and I was trained. I did thousands of hours of volunteer time to become a trainer in this other organization. Non paid. I got paid one time when I went and did a solo training myself. And, and they started going down a path I wasn't interested in. And, and, and I'm very careful. I, I have no desire to ruin that, like to ruin their reputations or any of that crap. I just don't care.

[B]

I like that.

[A]

That's not why we're here. And they went a direction I wasn't interested in and the direction was far more about money. And so what started happening was we would get people into these incredible. Healed. Healed, that's a stupid word. People would have these incredible experiences of getting rid of these masks and getting rid of having to do it their way or his way or that way or the perfect way or the whatever way. And then, and then these people would try to sell them into $30,000, $90,000 programs. I wasn't cool with that. I just wasn't cool with that. And when I brought it up, that, that begun the, the fall. And so it was months later, after we were no longer in that organization where I knew I had to do this. I mean from day one, this is just, it's who I am. It's funny, one of the other lessons I learned in the army, you asked me that earlier. One of the other powerful lessons I learned in the army is that me and the army don't get along. Man. I love people. People deserve a fighting chance to have the life they want. And, and I've got some awesome tools to help people on that journey because these guys taught me how. And I am very grateful for that. And it was. I'm gonna give you the, the like down and dirty version of how we decided to start refind you. These processes. They've been around since like the seventies. I like the. I didn't develop them the way I do it, the method that I do it, the extra tools and extra processes that I've brought in from outside sources to make it a massively powerful event. Yeah, I've, I've included those. But these processes work. They work powerfully. And I'm sitting on my couch and a cousin of mine calls. So we separated from this other company. We're really sad, lost nearly all the friends we thought we had. And it became this like threat battle and all this other crap, like, not gonna go there. And so me and a couple other people prayed and wrote down tons of names. Like, if we were to start a company, what would we call it? And we went through all these names and all these names and all these names and all these names. And then I was like, we need to pray again. And we prayed and it was like, boom, Refind you. And it's about being refined, but it's about refining that. Child, when you were 2, 2 years old, waking up in the morning, bright eyed, ready to go, the sun's out, I want to play, it's time to play. There was no barriers there. There was no decisions about yourself that you weren't good enough. Two year olds don't care about that. It's I want to go to the store, I want a piece of candy. Yeah. And so I'm sitting on the couch and this refined you kicks. It's like two days later and a cousin of mine that I hadn't talked to in years calls me up, can I come talk to you? I was like, yeah, come on over. We're home and she comes over and we're talking and she's just telling me this horrific story of her life in the last 10 years. She was locked in basements by husbands and boyfriends and abused and just horrific stuff. She tried to take her life a few. I have permission to share her story, by the way. From her. And she had tried to take her life multiple times and she couldn't kill herself. It wouldn't work, it wouldn't take. That's what she said. She kept saying that and she's just pauses. All of a sudden we're sitting on the couch and my wife is there and I'm there and we're just in tears like, sis, I'm so sorry, you know. And she says, I just need to refind myself. And I like jumped out of my chair and I was like, you just said my word. You can't say my word. What, what do you mean? Because we had said nothing. Like nothing about it. And it was like, this is it. And I said, okay, I got. You need to refind yourself. Okay, here's the deal. I got this training thing. And she's like, what are you talking about? It doesn't matter. In three weeks, you're coming to this thing. We're going to put it on, we're going to gather as many people as we can and we're going to go. And I'll just fast forward to the end of the story. She's at the end of part two. There's a moment where people share about some of the breakthroughs and things. And she's standing up in front of the room and she's telling this story. And she said, she said, joey tells me you're coming to re find you. And she said, and the day before, I get a random text from Joey that says, hey, sis, can't wait to see you tomorrow. She said. I picked up my phone and I said, f you, Joey. F you. You won't see me. I just took a whole bottle of pills. She took a whole bottle of pills and drank a whole bottle of alcohol the night before the training to kill herself the night before. And my wife said, I think you should message your cousin. And I was like, that's a great idea. Hey, sis, can't wait to see you tomorrow. And then she went, God, if I'm supposed to still be here, then let me wake up in the morning. And she probably said it with that much sass because this girl is fire, dude. She's awesome. And she woke up in the morning, came into training, she told none of us this story. It was two months later that we found out that she had tried to kill herself. And then she stood there and she looked at me, she's like, you can't effing believe I'm saying this. And then she screamed, I want to live. I want to live. It's my turn. And her trajectory has just been a whole new world. She called me up and said, my old highs are my new lows. And it just keeps growing. And this is two years later. It's been two years that we've been in business with refined you. And she's like, this. This is insane. How is this possible? And she just got rid of the shit.

[B]

It's crazy. It's crazy when you mention all this, because I wish it would have helped like a loved one that I know you know, it's every time just talking about it, sometimes I zone out just thinking, what could have been, what should have been what could have been done. And I love hearing these stories because it shows change. And change always begins with the choice. You have to decide.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

As well. And that's why I've always loved your approach, the whole when you're ready thing. Because you've seen when people have fully invested themselves into something, they're willing to change a certain pattern or a habit that they may be accustomed to that there's not like in the right path as well. Oh, gosh, I don't even know I even have this thing. You just like, you answer so many questions.

[A]

I am so passionate about what I do, man.

[B]

And I'm glad you mentioned like those two parts. I know that refine you. It's not as informative. It's more like transformational. There's no, like summarize. I want to know exactly for our views out there. There's part one, there's part two. What is the difference between both those parts and refinery?

[A]

Oh, that's a great question. So it's, it's impossible to describe this to people because every person's experience is so unique and human behavior, which is what we're dealing with, goes in every angle and in every direction at any given time. And we're equipped and ready to deal with that in the room. And so, for example, one of the first questions I ask, excuse me. One of the very first questions that I ask is, why are you here? I literally say that. And we get all kinds of. My wife made me come. And we don't, we don't shy away from that. It's like, okay, so your wife made you come. Well, that got you in the door. That's not going to keep you here. This isn't a rah rah seminar. You're not going to leave here. And in three days all your hype is gone. This is like, this is work. This is hard. It's. It's as if you smash a bunch of self help books together and then do it. Not, not think about it. You know what I mean? I want you to ask me your question one more time because I want to give that a fair answer. Yes, say it one more time.

[B]

So I kind of, I said, I know refine you is not necessarily one of those informative, motivational stuff. It's more transformational. I've seen people become like transformative with that. And then I asked, is there a way we can try and break down what part one is and what part two is? What the difference between the two parts?

[A]

Yes, absolutely. So part one is way about, let's see, how do I say that? Part one is mainly focused on all the masks you're currently wearing. Almost everybody that I ever meet is running around as an inauthentic version of themselves. Who am I supposed to be? Who am I not supposed to be? How am I supposed to dress? What should I drive? How should I show up or not show up, how close or how far away? And all of these rules that we have about who we're supposed to be and what we're supposed to be, and those get developed in the young childhood years. We start making decisions about all of these things that we're supposed to be and not supposed to be. Part one is about taking off the masks. And it doesn't happen through talking. Doesn't happen through talking. In part one, you will know what you want in life if going through refund you something that you can ask any person who's ever been through refind you. You can say, who are you? And they have an answer to that question, what do you want? And they will have an answer to that question. And it's funny because the people who think they're coming in because they want more money and they want more this and they want more that, what they find is that what they're looking for is connection with themselves, with the higher power, and with the other people around them. And when connection is set, everything else takes care of itself. It's about becoming connected.

[B]

I love that. And then you don't have to hit rock bottom, Right. Sometimes just people that are trying to find them like a purpose and like their. Their direction. Right?

[A]

Yeah. We've had. We've had billionaires in the room, and then we've had single moms who just try to take their life and veterans and everyone in between. And so part one, Part one is entirely about who you're not and get rid of. Getting rid of that whole concept that you have to show up a certain way for all the people around you rather than just what's right for you and who you are. And part two is entirely about who you are. And it's not a bunch of lectures. It's a bunch of processes that are designed to give you very clear feedback about how you're doing in life. We dive into trust. How you do trust in life, who you trust, who you don't trust, who trusts you, who doesn't trust you. There's Matt. I'm watching this in real time. The race divide, the. The fear between. Between black people and white people and Asian people and. And and all of this other stuff, and I'm watching it in real time in that room. And what people find out is people are freaking people. That's it. And we're just people. And we got taught some things that are screwed up along the way, and then we're just people after that. And so you get to dive far into. To give you a little more context on part one. Day one, you're going to dive into trust. You're going to dive into how you do life and how you go to war with other people. There's a simple game that we play that gives you directly how you literally go to war with other people. And we talk about a whole new way, which is called a unilateral agreement, which means I decide how I'm going to show up in the world, and that's how I show up. Regardless of who's. Of who's doing what, I don't have to punish people. I just love people. And it's like, oh, I really don't want to be around you. I love you. I don't like who you are as like. Like how you act is weird. I don't. And then we dive into. By that very first night, we're diving into feedback. You're going to get direct feedback on what stops me from wanting to connect with you. You will get direct feedback about that from other people in the room, your buddies, your peers. And you will give them direct feedback of, like, what stops you from wanting to connect with them. And then by day two, we're diving straight into what's the pain? Where does it come from? And you're going to go through dealing with the pain with mom, with dad, with anyone who's ever hurt you, and then the anger and rage and shame that you have towards yourself. We're going through it. We're not going to talk about it. We're going to go through it in a cathartic way where it gets it out of your body. If you've ever read the book the Body Keeps Score. Fantastic book. And there's just too much science now that says if you store the crap in your life in your body and you keep it in, you keep shoving it down, that's disease. That's. That's the cancer. That's. I mean, there's just too much evidence. And. And, yeah, there's other causes of cancer and there's other causes of disease, and there's just so much evidence that buried emotion turns into these autoimmune diseases and everything else. And I don't have evidence. So call me on it. I don't care. But that's. I watch it. I watched a guy who, who had a stroke four years ago and couldn't speak almost at all come through Refined you. And by the end of Refined you, he could talk like 20 times faster than he could when he started because he could understand everything we were saying, but he could only speak like that. And by the end, he was speaking like this. And his wife messaged me and said, what did you do? And I was like, sounds like he had some stuck emotions, man. It's crazy. And then by the end of day, day two, there's so much. There's so much that we pack in to three. You imagine three days. Part one is 9am to 9pm for, for three days, like legit. You're in that room, we go on breaks, we eat lunch and stuff. But then you're in there and I'm not lecturing. You're going through processes to get feedback and to get crap out. And then part two is. I actually want to say this part one, at the end of day two, you're going to find out what it feels like to be all in, all in with everything you got at a 10 as a child. No walls, no. No barriers, no limits to how you can show up in front of a room of people. It's great healing, like you couldn't imagine. So anyway, there's, there's kind of a snippet of, of what part one is. And part two is just the math that we have. Most of the time, most people think they reach what, what they consider as a 10 by the end of part one, it's like, this is my 10. How am I ever gonna top this? And it's like, no, don't, don't top this. Make this your new nine and go be like out in your world. And then they come to part two and they find out out that part one was only a one and they reach another 10. So you imagine what you could do in your life if you up leveled 20x. I. I don't like those cliche sayings, but that's like if I were to give one. It's like you're, you're exponentially increasing your ability to show up because the masks are gone and you're showing up as who you are rather than who you think everyone else needs you to be.

[B]

That's. That's life changing. That's amazing. That's transformation.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

This next question, I actually want to read it because I want to make sure I get every word out of stuff. How did becoming emotionally connected change your relationships, especially with yourself? That's one of my favorite questions. I want to ask it again, if you don't mind. I just want the viewers to, like, just. I want to reiterate every single. Single term over there. How did becoming emotionally connected change your relationships, especially with yourself?

[A]

You know, my transformative process for me, I didn't believe that people could actually be happy for more than a few hours at a time. I didn't believe. I didn't believe that was true. Eight years ago. Six. Six years ago. And I had done the therapy and I had done the 12 step, and I wasn't acting out anymore in my addictions, and I was sober, but I hated myself and I thought I was garbage no matter what I did, no matter what tools I was using, no matter what I was doing. And. And I'm in a therapy session and I'm like, dude, I just hate myself. I'm sick of hating myself. And he said. He just kind of stopped. And he's like, what do you think you should do? And in that moment, I got a direct connection with God again. I have those in my life. They're undeniable for me. And he said, call this person. And I was like, well, God just said, call this person. And he's like, I would listen to God, which was a funny statement. And I walked out of my counseling office and I called this person. And they said, you wouldn't believe me if I told you, but I have your name written on my whiteboard right now. I was going to call you tomorrow. And I'm like, why? I said, I'm struggling. Here's what I'm struggling with. Why am I calling you? That's what I said. And he said, I just went through this program, and it does exactly what you're looking for. He said, I've spent hundreds of thousand dollars on personal development, and nothing has changed my life like this. And I said, k, we're in. What? You're in. Don't you want to know about it? No, I don't. God told me to call you. You're telling me that there's a program and it's exactly what I'm looking for. I don't need an explanation. Let's go. When do we go? Like, when does it start? That's how I do my life. Like, that's just how I do my life. When it's time to go, it's time to go. And I said, and my wife too. She didn't know she was signed up by the way, which is funny. That's another story for another day. And, and we went in part after part one is a training similar to mine, like I said. And after part one for the first time in my entire life, and I'm answering your question in this long winded answer, I assure you. But after part one I was, it was three days later and I was walking by the mirror in my bathroom and for the first time in my entire life I looked in the mirror and I double took. And I'm like looking at myself and I'm astonished and I'm like, Ashley yelling my wife's name, get in here. And she's like, what? What is going on? I just kind of slack jawed pointed at the mirror and said I like myself. And tears are streaming down my face. And she's like, oh, like she didn't get it because how do you share that with somebody else? And, and it was like cool. I got like the food's burning, you know, and, and I just stood there mesmerized and then covet, hit. And we had to wait nine months between part one and part two, which is not common, you normally wait 30 days. That's it. And I wasn't going to go. And someone called me the night before and said, Joey, if you knew what I knew, you would move mountains to get to part two. That's what they said. And we did, we moved mountains and went to part two that next day. And it was three days later again, the weirdest thing, I don't know why, and I was walking past a mirror, the same exact mirror in the same exact way. And I saw myself in the mirror and I double took. And this time I wept because for the first time in my entire life I loved myself. I love myself. And reconnecting to me and that little boy and making it safe for him and for me and my, the way I think about myself. Dude, that's changed everything. It's changed the way I show up at work. It's changed the way I show up for my kids. It changed the way I show up for complete changes. Strangers who are having a rough day because I love me and I know my needs are met. That changes everything. And it's not something I can, I can give in words because it's, it's personal. Like it's a personal journey that happens through doing the work to get the lies out, man. And it hasn't changed. It's. It's only. I don't have you ever seen the. This was. This one's gonna get us some negative comments. You ready? You ready? At least me like, I think they, like you already gonna get me some negative comments if you've ever seen the movie. Really? I'm gonna forget the name of it now. Pearl Harbor. It's like a two part. We, we bought it back when it was a two part dvd. You had to put the DVD and then you'd have to take Tom Cruise. No, it's. Tom Cruise is not in it, but Ben Affleck is.

[B]

Ben Affleck. I keep confusing the two.

[A]

Yeah, and there's a part, there's a part on that movie where the one of the side characters looks in the mirror and he says, I am one good looking son of a. You know, I do that. I totally do that from time to time. It's not an arrogance thing. It's not, it's not. It's just like, man, I love me. What is this? How is this possible? And I want that for everybody. Because it's not about arrogance. When you accept you and love you, man, the world changed. Imagine what could happen if we're not competing to try to get love because we've got it filled by ourselves.

[B]

You know when you just said that I was speaking with Loris because I was here, I looked at that picture and I'm like, gosh dang, there's something about that guy. Then like, you know, Lars and I were making a joke, but. But I think also when it's like genuine and it's felt and you know, that there's something. And I think it's rooted deep in between, like in what you genuinely believe and it's, it's something that's good for you as well, you know, and, and I often don't like when people start saying it's arrogance, it's this thing, it's like, no, like why do it? Which goes back again to like the two year old, young, young kid. And I loved it so much from your daughter. She stole like the show from the minute she entered there. And I love seeing that in kids so much when they thrive from their existence and like their self belief as well. And every time I attend conferences and I see like just young 8 year old kids just out there just being themselves is the greatest thing ever. And I've tried not to like lose it because I was the same way when I would be the first to bear my testimony. Like when I was in primary.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Like, because I'm like, I want to.

[A]

Quickly Go out there.

[B]

I want people to know that I have a testimony kind of thing. And over time, like, life can hit you when you're in teenage years. Everything but maintaining that. Seeing that from your daughter, she was probably the biggest example.

[A]

Like.

[B]

Like when she was singing on Sunday and just out there being herself, like, saying, listen, I'm unapologetically myself was one of the most important traits a human being can possess as well.

[A]

So that's refund you. That's what we do. Because that's it. That's why it's transformative. We're not trying to make somebody some other version where we all look the same and have the same watch and have the same car. It's. How do you become the best version of you?

[B]

Well, yeah, no, that's. That's powerful. I wanted to ask. I know we're close out of time right now, but just one last thing. You know, you dropped out of high school and you have an mba. How the heck can you explain that to our viewers? What happened there?

[A]

Oh, man, that's one last question.

[B]

Question that I need to ask. I know we went on this powerful thing, but I can't ask that question.

[A]

Let's dive in. So me and school did not get along as a kid. Like, that is not my idea of a good time being in school. And I had a massive belief that I was too stupid for school. And I had tons of teachers tell me I was stupid. They would lock me in closets. I mean, you name it, that was happening for me. And so I took off. I dropped out in 10th grade and ran away from home. And it's funny, because what a lie that I'm stupid. What a freaking lie. And to believe it, to believe it, that's probably one of the most astonishing things that I remember about myself from time to time is that I'm smart and, and. And man, there's. I. I can't pinpoint some great, massive revelation, but I was like, you know what? I refuse to stay working at a corner store out of the Army. So what do I got to do? Because, like, guess what? When I got out of the army, I applied for more than 250. I didn't have a degree yet actually out of the army. I had my. My ged, which I went and took. And then I had all this experience on. On how to, you know, be a force. If you don't know, like, the purpose of. Of Special Forces training or the purpose of military training in the way that I did it, the entire purpose is to become A force multiplier. Now, to be clear, I did not become a Green Beret. I have a whole other story about that. That's pretty cool. And, but I did most of the training and those skills are not transferable to a tech industry. They just are not. They're not looking for me to train infantry. That's not a skill I need. And as I got out of the Army, I applied for more than 250 jobs around the US and I got one phone call, one middle of nowhere Texas. And I could fill you with stories from that experience. But what I found out was it was time to go to college. What I also found out was I'm damn smart. And so I doubled and tripled up on classes and I had a full time family, a full time job, and double full time college and knocked out my bachelor's degree like that.

[B]

Boom.

[A]

And then UVU has an awesome program for MBA students. I love the people at uvu. They're super cool. They're really trying to stay in the front as a commercial for them. But no, for real. And, and right before COVID hit, I was like, you know what? Step it up. Let's do this. Let's do an mba. And, and I, my wife and I have been entrepreneurs forever, especially my wife. I'm usually the guy lugging all the crap around for, for my incredible wife. And, and the MBA just launched me on that path to be able to understand business and the parts I do and do not like about business.

[B]

And one thing I want to add on that is when we fully, obviously in our belief or a higher power. When you believe in our belief, we believe that we are literally the offspring of our heavenly Father. And we know he's infinite, he's eternal, he's everlasting from everlasting, and he's a perfected being. And so that's what we strive to become. But because we have inherited those qualities, we are capable of achieving everything we put our minds to. And so when you said I am darn smart, it's a belief that you have and you know you are and nobody can tell you you're not because. And that you just proved him. And so I want to thank you for. I can't believe it's been close to an hour and a half, but I guess we'll have to invite you for part two because we're not even halfway done with these questions. I want to thank you so much for, for your experiences, for your army experiences, for refined you, for the lessons that, that are going to be given to our viewers. And I would encourage you guys to please give heed to the instruction. And before we go as well, I want you to let people know where they can get a hold of you as well, and stuff like that. But before then, I always ask our guests, this is the last question we always ask because it's the code to winning. You know, people need insights today to seize the world tomorrow. In your definition, what does the term winning mean for you?

[A]

Connection.

[B]

Boom. That's a mic dropper. Can I remove this mic?

[A]

Larson?

[B]

Drop it on the floor.

[A]

Human connection is the answer to everything you're looking for. Self, higher power, and the people around you. It's the freaking answer to everything you're looking for. To making more money, to having peace, to having love, love, joy. All of it. All of it. It's connection.

[B]

Authentic and genuine connection. Right? Yeah. Powerful. Joey, if you could let our viewers know if they want to get a hold of refine you, if they want to be able to reach back to you, what are the websites or like social media that get a hold of you as well? Can you let our viewers know?

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. So the website, website, all of this is a work in progress, but the website is refindyou.org that's r e f I n d y o u dot org. Lots of cool stuff. I'm giving away so many free tools, in fact, I'll link up with you after this to send out my very first tool, completely free, to everybody. That changed the way that I'm able to connect with myself. It's the tool that started me down this path of connection in the first place. And we'll. We'll give that to everybody. So.

[B]

Wow. Well, ladies and gentlemen, the code of winning insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow. Joey Phillipstone, thank you so much.

[A]

Yes, sir. Thank you, thank you. Thank you so much.