Podcast
The Cognitive Crucible
Hosted by Information Professionals Association · EN
The Cognitive Crucible explores all aspects of our generational challenge: Cognitive Security. It is the only podcast dedicated to increasing interdisciplinary collaboration between information operations practitioners, scholars, and policy makers. Join the discussion forum each week with the Cognitive Crucible host, John Bicknell. Have a question or would like to suggest a topic go to: https://information-professionals.org/podcasts/cognitive-crucible.
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Episodes
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#236 Michael Lissack on Anticipatory Agents
Dec 1600:59:35Tap to summarizeThe Cognitive Crucible is a forum that presents different perspectives and emerging thought leadership related to the information environment. The opinions expressed by guests are their own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of or endorsement by the Information Professionals Association. During this episode, Michael Lissack discusses Anticipatory Agents in Causal Bubbles–a unified theoretical framework that reconciles Quantum Bayesianism (QBism), Robert Rosen's theory of Anticipatory Systems, the causal bubbles interpretation of quantum mechanics, and pragmatic constructivism through Hans Vaihinger's philosophy of 'as if.' Recording Date: 2 Dec 2025 Research Question: Michael Lissack suggests an interested student or researcher examine how can the continuous process of asking "what gives this symbol, sign, or phrase meaning?" (synecdoche) against the background of the "information abyss" lead to a developed sense of understanding? Resources: Cognitive Crucible Podcast Episodes Mentioned #7 Randy Rosin on Russia and Applied Cybernetics #72 Noah Komnick on Cybernetics and the Age of Complexity #47 Yaneer Bar-Yam on Complex Systems and the War on Ideals #85 Josh Kerbel on Complexity and Anticipatory Intelligence Anticipatoryagents.com Anticipatory Agents in Causal Bubbles: Reconciling Quantum Bayesianism, Rosen's Anticipatory Systems, and Pragmatic Constructivism by Michael Lissack WHAT SCIENTIFIC TERM OR CONCEPT OUGHT TO BE MORE WIDELY KNOWN? Ashby's Law of Requisite Variety by John Naughton Destruction and Creation by John Boyd (1976) W. R. Ashby, "Requisite variety and its implications for the control of complex systems," Cybernetica, vol. 1, no. 2, pp. 83–99, 1958. Link to full show notes and resources Guest Bio: Michael Lissack, the founder and director of the Second Order Science Foundation, has dedicated his academic career to understanding how individuals and organizations can learn and adapt in a rapidly changing world. Lissack's work focuses on the intersection of cognition, communication, and technology, and he has developed innovative approaches to knowledge management, organizational learning, and leadership development. Lissack was the president of American Society for Cybernetics, founder of the Institute for the Study of Coherence and Emergence, and founding editor of the journal Emergence. He has taught at several universities throughout the world, including Erasmus in the Netherlands and Tongji in Shanghai. He holds a D.B.A. in complex systems from Brunel University and Henley Management College. About: The Information Professionals Association (IPA) is a non-profit organization dedicated to exploring the role of information activities, such as influence and cognitive security, within the national security sector and helping to bridge the divide between operations and research. Its goal is to increase interdisciplinary collaboration between scholars and practitioners and policymakers with an interest in this domain. For more information, please contact us at communications@information-professionals.org. Or, connect directly with The Cognitive Crucible podcast host, John Bicknell, on LinkedIn. Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate, 1) IPA earns from qualifying purchases, 2) IPA gets commissions for purchases made through links in this post.
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#235 Rob Thelen on the US Army IWAR Initiative
Dec 1100:53:41Tap to summarizeThe Cognitive Crucible is a forum that presents different perspectives and emerging thought leadership related to the information environment. The opinions expressed by guests are their own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of or endorsement by the Information Professionals Association. During this episode, COL Rob Thelan discusses the US Army's Information Warfare (IWAR) Branch. IWAR aims to integrate the IO (Information Operations) and PSYOP (Psychological Operations) communities into a unified, conventional force branch. Other topics include: U.S. lagging behind adversaries like China and Russia in IO funding and the need to break down "stovepiping" within the U.S. information operations community; the State Department's Global Engagement Center and filling the void with respect to mis/dis-information; and military public affairs evolution. Recording Date: 19 Nov 2025 Research Question: Rob Thelan suggests an interested student or researcher examine: Where else are we falling behind our adversaries and how do we make up ground – especially with respect to operations in the information environment? Resources: Cognitive Crucible Podcast Episodes Mentioned #106 Mike Taylor on the Global Engagement Center Art of War by Sun Tzu The Fire of the Dragon: China's New Cold War by Ian Williams Link to full show notes and resources Guest Bio: Colonel Robert M. Thelen is currently the chief of staff of the Department of the Army Strategic Operations Directorate (DAMO SO). Previously, he was the Department of State Senior Military Advisor to the Bureau of Public Diplomacy and Global Public Affairs office of Foreign Information Manipulation and Interference (R/FIMI). Colonel Thelen completed a War College Fellowship at the Near East South Asia Strategic Studies Center at National Defense University. Prior to War College he was assigned to the Joint Staff J39 (Deputy Director for Global Operations DDGO) as Chief Special Activities Division (SAD). He was also assigned to the US Special Operations Command (SOCOM) J39 Information Operations (IO) Division as the Chief of Special Activities. He also served at the US Africa Command (AFRICOM) J39 Information Operations (IO) Division after earning a Master Degree in Public Administration from Harvard University's John F. Kennedy School of Government. He previously served as the G7 Information Operations Officer for the Second Infantry Division, stationed at Camp Red Cloud, Republic of Korea. He was also assigned to Fort Hood's III Armored Corps as a G35 Future Operations IO Planner and deployed to Afghanistan in 2013 where he lead an international team of IO planners for the Future Operations G35 of the ISAF Joint Command (IJC). Before joining III Armored Corps, COL Thelen served with the U.S. Army Forces Command's Operations Division Watch team where he was instrumental in establishing the IO section within the G-3/5/7. Colonel Thelen has had a long and diverse military career, bringing a plethora of military experience to the Department of State. While still a junior in high school, he enlisted in the Illinois Army National Guard as a photo journalist. Four years later, he attended Officer Candidate School and commissioned as a Second Lieutenant after graduating from Illinois State University with a Bachelor of Science degree in Public Relations. He then relocated to Washington, D.C., where he pursued a career with the federal government while continuing to serve in the Virginia Army National Guard's 29th Infantry Division as the Commander of Headquarters and Headquarters Company, as well as an aide-de-camp to the Commanding General. COL Thelen was transferred to Atlanta, Georgia where he joined the Georgia Army National Guard and the 124th Mobile Public Affairs Detachment. In 1997 he was mobilized, deployed and attached to the 1st Infantry Division 2-2 Infantry in Bosnia-Herzegovina, serving as the Task Force 2-2 Public Affairs Officer. He remained on active duty through the Active Guard and Reserve (AGR) program where he served in Stuttgart, Germany with the European Command J37 NATO Exercise Branch and performed Operations Center duties during the Kosovo Campaign. Following this assignment, he returned to Atlanta and served in the G-3/5/7 Training Division at the U.S. Army Forces Command and the Executive Officer to the 2-star senior Army National Guard Advisor. He was then selected to serve as the Battalion S3, Assistant Professor of Military Science (APMS) at the Georgia Institute of Technology (Georgia Tech) ROTC program, and then as the Coordinator for the Georgia National Guard's State Partnership Program with the Former Soviet Republic of Georgia. During this time he also commanded the 124th Mobile Public Affairs Detachment. After command, he attended Command and General Staff College (CGSC) at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas and was then assigned as the Brigade S3 Plans officer at the 48th Infantry Brigade. COL Thelen was then assessed to active duty as an Information Operations officer and continues to serve. COL Thelen is married to Alexis (Layton-Moore) and has three children, Jake, Rachel and Robert, Jr. He has owned and operated a real estate investment firm and is an active member of the Harvard Kennedy School Alumni Association. About: The Information Professionals Association (IPA) is a non-profit organization dedicated to exploring the role of information activities, such as influence and cognitive security, within the national security sector and helping to bridge the divide between operations and research. Its goal is to increase interdisciplinary collaboration between scholars and practitioners and policymakers with an interest in this domain. For more information, please contact us at communications@information-professionals.org. Or, connect directly with The Cognitive Crucible podcast host, John Bicknell, on LinkedIn. Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate, 1) IPA earns from qualifying purchases, 2) IPA gets commissions for purchases made through links in this post
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#15 Bonus IPA/AFCEA Alamo Information Warfare Panel Discussion
Nov 13, 2020Tap to summarizeThis is a special 90-minute bonus episode of the Cognitive Crucible. On October 29th 2020, IPA and AFCEA's ALAMO Chapter co-hosted a Virtual Panel on Combatting Disinformation in a Competitive Information Environment. The star-studded panel of senior government personnel and thought leaders spotlights the current pivot toward a convergence approach to improve our competitive advantage across the strategic and operational environments, most specifically in the cyber-enabled information space. The event slide deck is available here. Across the National and Defense enterprise, agencies and organizations are reprioritizing and reorganizing to more effectively compete in a competitive and complex global information environment. The Nation is being increasingly impacted by cutting-edge technology and sophisticated influence activities to shape perceptions, decisions and behavior. The discussion is framed by the recently released Defense Science Board study regarding global competition in the information environment, includes ongoing efforts, and as well as new initiatives to support USG and DOD priorities in cognitive security such establishing a Cognitive Security Proving Ground, re-establishing the Phoenix Challenge information operations conference series, and discussion of the newly-established Principal Information Operations Advisor to the Secretary of Defense. Moderated by Mr. Austin Branch; the star-studded panelists are: Ms. Lynne Patrick, Technical Director at Sixteenth Air Force Joint Base San Antonio Dr. Brian Pierce, Visiting Research Scientist at the Applied Research Laboratory for Intelligence and Security (ARLIS) LTG (RET.) Ed Cardon, Former Commander of US Army Cyber Command, and Commander JTF ARES Mr. Rob "Bus" Bussian, Director for Cyber and Strategic Enabling in the Concepts, Development and Management Office under the Administrative Assistant to the Secretary of the Air Force Mr. Bob Pearson, Social media expert, author, professor, digital consultant Mr. Joe Kelly, Applied Research Lab for Intelligence and Security and President of Pointweaver, LLC For more information, please contact us at communications@information-professionals.org. Or, you can connect directly with The Cognitive Crucible podcast host, John Bicknell on LinkedIn.
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