Beyond the Numbers: Understanding Homelessness

Summary

The Collage Podcast

Episode: Beyond the Numbers: Understanding Homelessness

Host: Feed My Sheep
Guests: Jonathan, Isaac
Date: October 30, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, Feed My Sheep sits down for a candid, deeply compassionate discussion with Jonathan and Isaac about homelessness in Temple, TX. This conversation moves past surface-level statistics to explore the very real, human stories behind the numbers. Through humor, lived experience, and direct engagement with community realities, the hosts challenge assumptions, highlight systemic barriers, and advocate for understanding unhoused individuals as full, valuable members of society.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Limits of Statistics and Labels

• Opening Tone: Host jokes about their own ignorance with statistics, setting a tone of humility and curiosity.
• The Problem with Numbers: The dangers of letting statistics define an entire population.
  • "I'm of the belief that 100% of the people that are homeless don't have a home. Okay. That is a defining statistic. That is statistically true." (A, 02:36)
• Human Stories over Data: Numbers like “2 out of 3 have addiction” or “70% have mental illness” can obscure individual humanity and the complexity of causes.
  • "You can find statistics to prove whatever you want. Okay, so I am not a big believer in statistics themselves are the answer." (A, 01:45)

Redefining Mental Illness and Addiction

• Mental Health Nuance:
  • Anxiety and depression are basic reactions to extreme stress, not just clinical illness.
  • "If you define mental health issues on anxiety, depression... then I'd go, man, I might would say 100% of our people suffer from issues in that." (A, 05:20)
  • Far fewer are suffering from severe disorders like schizophrenia.
  • Substance use is more often a symptom of trauma and hardship than a simple “bad choice.”
  • “Is [addiction] really the defining thing to look at our population or is it a symptom of a greater ill?...If I don’t address the real topic at hand, why is this person [addicted]?” (A, 06:21)

Breaking Down Barriers & Cycles

• Cycle of Substance Abuse:
  • Substances are often used to self-medicate, to cope with trauma, voices, physical and mental pain, or because they’re cheaper and more accessible than medical help.
  • "Some of the people that I would run into... would say that they choose to use some of these substances because it quiets the voices... and makes them feel they can function better..." (A, 10:47)
  • Systemic delay: Long waits for medical appointments and medicine often leave people with no choice but illegal substances.
• Community and Substance Use:
  • Drugs create a sense of community for people who are otherwise alienated and alone, even if it’s “bad community.”
  • "It's very community in nature. You know, they come together... Not alone." (A, 13:30)

Obstacles to Getting Out – It’s Not Just “Get a Job”

• Layered Structural Hurdles:
  • Getting an ID requires proof of address, which homeless individuals don’t have. Without an ID, basic things—hotels, employment, services, police stops—are inaccessible.
  • "If you don’t have an ID, you can't get a hotel... you can't get any of the services around here without an id." (A, 21:03)
  • Feed My Sheep provides mailbox access precisely for this barrier.
  • Getting a job requires not only ID, but transport, physical ability/health, and time before a paycheck. Public transit doesn't serve night shifts or industrial areas where jobs may be available.
  • "Let's pretend you live over here in temple, you are homeless, but you want to get a job and you have an ID... So I walk over... it's probably four miles. But okay, you get a job. Okay. There ain't no place to stay over there. So then you have no transportation..." (A, 22:36)
  • Money trap: Government checks provide just enough to get by, but not enough to escape homelessness.
  • Felony records and identification loss further complicate hiring prospects.

It’s Not One Thing—Wraparound Support is Essential

• Not Just Housing, Not Just Work:
  • Permanent solutions require more than just “getting a house” or “getting a job.” Case management, wraparound services, and compassionate support are needed.
  • “Housing only is not simply the answer. Okay? There's got to be wraparound services. There's got to be case managers. There's got to be interjecting for people to help others navigate out of this long, difficult process and to navigate a path...” (A, 29:00)

The Everest Metaphor & Shared Climb

• Addressing Complex Paths Out:
  • Getting stable is like climbing Everest: success requires a support team and many steps, but the climber (person) should feel full ownership of their success.
  • “Done right. Jeff has every right to believe he did it completely on his own. But he didn’t. He had a whole bunch of other people that supported him along the way.” (A, 29:52)
  • The supporting roles—caseworkers, mailbox providers, even simple encouragement—are crucial, but shouldn’t “take credit.”
  • Every step, no matter how small or “behind the scenes,” matters.

The Importance of Patience and Steady Progress

• Swahili Climbing Lesson:
  • “Pole, pole, pole, pole”—“slow, slow, slow, slow,” but always upward progress. Community members walk at the pace of those they serve, meeting needs as they arise, never stopping, never rushing.
  • "Never would they allow me to stop. Never would they allow me to turn back around and go back to where I had come from. Not an option. Never would they let me get too far ahead of myself. They just simply said, pole, pole, slow, slow, slow, slow. Trust the pace and keep moving forward." (A, 32:53)

Honoring Human Value Beyond Labels or Data

• People are More than Statistics:
  • "Statistics... don't tell the whole story exactly. Not even remotely close. The whole story that is occurring here is that people, people and individual people are involved in this world." (A, 32:38)
  • Every person matters—no statistic can capture their story, value, or capacity for change.
  • "We simply go along on the climb. I will go downstairs and work with this lady... Simply because the truth that we function out of is not why somebody's here... simply because of the fact people matter. They matter. That's it." (A, 38:09)
  • Everyone can play a part in helping others “climb” out of hardship.

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Memorable Quotes & Notable Moments

• On Statistics:
  • "You can find statistics to prove whatever you want...I am not a big believer in statistics themselves are the answer." (A, 01:45)
• On defining homelessness:
  • "100% of the people that are homeless don't have a home. Okay. That is a defining statistic. That is statistically true." (A, 02:36)
• On treating people as individuals:
  • “I am not an expert in addiction. It doesn’t matter. I am an expert on understanding that people have value and worth...” (A, 32:38)
• On systemic struggle:
  • "To get out of homelessness is astronomically expensive...it is about as close to impossible to do solely on your own." (A, 21:55)
• On the nature of addiction:
  • "Do I think that the sole choice back down the road was somebody said, you know what? I just want to sit outside and live out on the street. And so I'm just going to start doing drugs all the time because it's just that fun? That's absolutely an absurd answer." (A, 12:40)
• Everest Metaphor:
  • "You can't simply say to Jeff, go climb Everest. There's so much involved...You got to have a support group around you to help... Jeff makes it to the summit...Look at that. I'm that good of a backpacker. I did it on my own. No, he didn't...He had a whole bunch of other people that supported him along the way." (A, 29:52)
• Patience and Progress:
  • "Pole, pole, pole, pole, Mr. Jeff...It means slow, slow, slow, slow, move slow, but always up. Pole, pole, slow, slow, progress. You never stop moving forward." (A, 32:53)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:00–02:00: Podcast & episode introduction; playful reflection on statistics
• 02:14–05:20: The limits of statistics, redefining mental illness in the context of homelessness
• 07:29–14:30: The complex roots of substance use, community, and trauma
• 19:30–25:30: Concrete barriers to escaping homelessness—IDs, jobs, transportation, documentation
• 28:46–29:52: Not a single-factor problem; the Everest metaphor for escaping homelessness
• 32:00–40:00: Closing reflections—the value of people, lessons from climbing mountains, “pole, pole” and the importance of moving forward together

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Final Thoughts

This episode passionately insists that the realities of homelessness are far more complex than any statistic. Homeless individuals are not problems to be solved or numbers to be crunched, but valued people journeying through hardship, often with strength and resourcefulness. True community means walking alongside them—not to "save" but to travel together—moving steady, steady, always up, and never alone.

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For those seeking understanding or involvement, the message is clear: Be patient, be present, and never underestimate the power of one small, caring action to help someone keep climbing. "Pole, pole"—slowly, but always forward.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Hey, we want to welcome everybody out there to another edition of. Of the collage podcast. Golly. I had to think about the name for a second. That's kind of bad. Good to have you out here. We haven't done this in a bit. We're going to get back in the routine of doing these. So I'm sitting here with Jonathan and Isaac, and we're just going to have a quick little question and answer session today. So we're going to look at some vitally important statistics. We're going to kind of talk about state of the environment that we're in, because there's a lot of stuff that's been out there of different statistics and facts. And so we're going to look at that because we are absolutely not the experts on statistics and such like that. So we're going to use our ignorance and such like that on this topic to really address it. So what we're going to do to kind of get onto that is Isaac's going to pose some questions to me and I'm going to see how badly I can possibly miss the correct answers on these things. And we're just going to kind of go from there and have a discussion of some of these things. And they do matter. I'm saying some of these things. I don't necessarily think we're going to miss the point of this stuff, but I'm always one. Statistics. Whatever you want. Something to show you can find statistics to prove whatever you want. Okay. So I am not a big believer in statistics themselves are the answer to the problem. So that is kind of our starting point. We will go from there and Isaac will pose the first question.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So happy to be here. Thank you.

[A]

Well, thank you. So have you, Isaac.

[B]

So in a conversation the other day, me and this individual, we were specifically. It was specifically talked about about statistics for homeless individuals. Okay. And my question to you would be, what are there statistics missing that really paint these people as people and not just as numbers?

[A]

Yeah, fair. So that's a good question because, like, in it, you would. Well, okay, so then the number one statistic that we would probably have to address is that I'm of the belief that 100% of the people that are homeless don't have a home. Okay. So I'm of that opinion. That is a defining statistic. That is statistically true. I think 100% of the people that are homeless. Let me see, that would be. Oh, yeah, they are people. They are human beings, just like every other person here in society.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Outside of those statistics, I think some of the ones that we tend to look to as a society are more not necessarily the defining aspects of what is going on in the homeless situation. So like we tend to want to look at, oh, whatever, that two out of three of the people that are homeless, they suffer from addiction. Could be. Could be. I could not argue that one necessarily, or that whatever, 60 or 70% of the people in the homeless population suffer from mental illness.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay, so then we can start looking at these things and you're trying to define a whole population by, I think, numbers that are not necessarily the defining factor. Okay, so then like if, let's say 60% of the population, 70% of the homeless population suffers from mental illness.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Then the first thing I would ask back to you is, how do you define mental illness?

[B]

Well, often it's defined with a certain condition.

[A]

Okay, could be. So then you would go, okay, I get it. And so is mental illness a topic in our society is. Oh, absolutely. And do I agree that it occurs? Absolutely. And I'm not trying to discount its importance, but I would say how do you define it? So if it's somebody suffers from anxiety, okay, there better be about every one of my people who has to wonder where they're going to sleep tonight if they're going to be, stay safe. Am I going to get attacked tonight? Should they have anxiety every night? Absolutely.

[B]

Oh yes.

[A]

Are they mentally ill? I don't know. Okay. Should they have anxiety? Absolutely. I would say a lot of the people that are here, they're cut off from their family, they've lost loved ones. Okay. They are in places that they do not necessarily want to be. Could that make you depressed? Absolutely.

[B]

Yes, Absolutely.

[A]

Absolutely. So do they suffer from depression? Maybe. So they lost their kids, they've lost their family, they've had loved ones die. Should you be depressed? Absolutely. You could suffer from that. So then there's even more, I would say if you define mental health issues on that, anxiety, depression, which are mental health deals. So I'm not discounting any of that at all. Then I'd go, man, I might would say 100% of our people suffer from issues in that non diagnosed issues. If you define it as schizophrenia is the only. Well then there's a certain population that has that. So it's difficult when you start just looking at topics and then like the one addiction. Okay. Is that really the defining thing to look at our population or is it a symptom of a greater ill? Okay. To look at really what is going on in the addiction issue, Is that the issue of why they're homeless or is that a manifestation or symptoms of what is really occurring? So then that one to me is more the topic at hand. Okay. If I've got a cough and I go see a doctor, the doctor's not going to simply stop it going, oh, you got a cough. Ah, Jeff's a cougher. Got a cough, got a cougher. He's a cougher. We got a good. No, they're going to see what is the cause of the cough, the underlying issue. Underlying issue. Okay, so then you would go, ah, this is why this is occurring, and address that. If I don't address the real topic at hand, why is this person addiction?

[B]

That leads to the next question. Because many people feel, and specifically with substance abuse in the homeless population, I feel again, statistics give the wrong view that, oh, those people became addicted just because of their own poor choices. But that is a symptom.

[A]

That.

[B]

And could you just kind of describe some of the reasons behind substance abuse?

[A]

Absolutely. So in it, I would be completely amiss if I even answered that. Yes, because they are every gamut of reasons that occur. So mine the same reason people have addiction issues. Temple is divided up. East Temple sometimes is looked as the economically challenged side of town, and West Temple is the affluent side of town. There's nothing negative. That's just our landscape. So if you're not familiar with Temple, that's just kind of how it is. People in West Temple have addiction issues just as much as East Temple. I cannot say for sure all the things that have occurred of why the people struggle with addiction, But I know it is rampant all over in society. I know on my side of it, some of the. The issues that we deal in that area, they don't play. So like meth, it doesn't play around. It is very dangerous. It is a very bad fentanyl. It doesn't play around.

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay. And so like these. Not that any of the addiction issues play around the ramifications for some of the stuff that are going on, they are real. Okay. And so I can't tell why there's a jillion reasons why somebody is suffering from addiction. I would possibly. I am of the camp. I'm not so sure watching the ramifications at a certain level, that people are simply choosing it for recreation. Absolutely. That's absurd.

[B]

I guess a better question to pose to you would be, or I guess the view that it's not only because of these individuals bad decisions that they are encountering substance Abuse, it is because of. Of other reasons. For instance, like you said earlier, their children have died. These are veterans coming home, and they have no way to deal with anxiety.

[A]

There's a lot of issues at hand. I mean, like, if I went and talked to some of our people, I won't say any names, but if I would go talk to whatever, I'm not even going to use any name. I know they use substance. And I'm not advocating. I'm not saying these are good, okay? Some of the stuff you can buy on the street is easier and cheaper to get than the stuff that you can get from a doctor, because they can't get to a doctor. So if I went and talked to some of the people I have that diagnosed or undiagnosed, I am not a medical professional, so I'm not going to say what they have or don't have. But schizophrenia, let's say they have that diagnosis somewhere. Not saying this is fact or not fact, but some of the people that I would run into, they would say that they choose to use some of these substances because it quiets the voices that they hear and they have clarity and it makes them feel they can function better and more like themselves that they would say than if they take the medicine that they can get from the doctor. And it's about impossible to get the stuff and get a prescription into MHMR to get the actual medicine, meth. Guess what? They want a prescription of that today. And I'm using the term prescription very loosely because it's not a prescription. It is an illegal drug that nobody should be doing. They want that today. Guess what they got today and they can afford it. You know what? A lot of the people that they use some of these drugs because it makes the pain that they feel all the time, physical or mental, it stops, okay? And they get it cheap. You know, if somebody says, I want these voices. If we walk downstairs and somebody was there and they came to me, okay, and said, I want to be diagnosed for this, and I don't understand why I keep hearing these voices and they're telling me to do this and they're seeing this, guess what? If I'm lucky, it may be three months or four months down the road before I can get them into MHMR or any of these facilities that they could actually get medicine to treat that. And then you begin this process of, well, we're going to try this medicine. I'm not sure it's going to work for you or not, but we're going to try it. And let's give it a try for a month. Okay. It's tough. I mean, so, like, in it, I would say, as what I'm learning, do I think that the sole choice back down the road was somebody said, you know what? I just want to sit outside and live out on the street. And so I'm just going to start doing drugs all the time because it's just that fun. That's absolutely an absurd answer. So then you look at what is going, you know, you see a young lady that you're like, okay, I get it. There's. There is decisions and processes and things that occur.

[B]

But.

[A]

But you think that she says, you know what? I'm going to go use drugs all the time so I can be homeless and I get to prostitute myself all the time to pay for the drugs. That's the life I want. Well, no, nobody would do that. You get in a place in a spiral, and so I can't tell how somebody got there. But like that, it's not like it's recreational. Oh, man, this is just fun. It becomes that it is community. It's a lot of the drugs that are so addictive in this population. What is the common denominator in a lot of them? It's very community in nature. You know, they come together and. Oh, this one has a little bit. Oh, we come together and we share this community. Bad community. Bad community. Yes, but community. Not alone. If I don't have a place to sleep, okay. And I can have a way that all the hours of the night disappear pretty quickly, and I feel like I'm having fun and I'm doing stuff and I don't have to worry about where to sleep.

[B]

Huh.

[A]

And you're like, sure, and I'm not alone. And then I crash for a little bit during the day. You know, I'm safer in the day and I got places to go. I'm saying this facetiously. Why wouldn't I do that? Ain't like it's just recreation, okay? It is so much more. Substance is huge in it. Okay. There's so many factors that fit into mental health. Anybody, anybody in the addiction world would know. I mean, if you are on substances, it makes it harder for your brain to be clear and it makes it harder to make right decisions. And it's a terrible spiral that spirals down and down and down.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you are suffering from depression, let's say you are apt to do that. Okay. Guess what? If you want to compound that component inside of your brain, well, then golly let's drink a bunch of alcohol because it's going to make it worse. Let's take a bunch of drugs. It's going to make it worse. You don't realize it, but then it comes and then you're even more depressed because what you did and you're this. And then guess what you do. You do it again and you do it again and then you're compounded this. And then. So yes, it. Is it huge in this world? Absolutely. In our society as a whole. Is it huge? Absolutely. So many people are suffering from addiction. So many people are doing that. But I do not like it solely as the defining factor of what is going on in the population. There are so many other things that are. That is one of it. That must be addressed. Mental health. That is one of the things it must be addressed.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

The lack of community and belonging. That's just as equal and as big. Must be addressed. You can't just pick one of those.

[B]

And then out of that, the subject would be incomplete.

[A]

If you speak into that. Okay, this is really cool on this. So with that, I've got a young lady here that. This is impressive. I will go on this. Okay, this is impressive. She lives outside. I met her because her house got raided by the police because it was a place to be. People used meth. She showed up. She's waiting for me downstairs right now because she wants to go to a substance use disorder treatment facility. It was presented as an option to her. This is the new way the police and I are working together. So instead of her getting rung up at that it was presented. Here's an option. Would you consider this option? She disappeared for a week or two and we're like, that was an epic failure. Now she's here. Yeah. And she was told to be back. So all of that to say. Do I believe people need treatment for this? Absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. Let me send this real quick.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So there you go. So then out of this story. That's kind of funny.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All of this. And if this person. Okay, I would. I would say this to wherever I just rambled about. I don't want our people to be defined by this. But to get somebody where they can have life and life abundantly, they must be free of these substance issues that they struggle with.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they need help.

[B]

And this kind of leads to my next question. Because many people might think, oh, homeless people stay homeless for life. But again, statistical wise, that's what it looks like. But many of these people are trying to do better. These People. Well, actually, let me rephrase that. Homeless individuals. I don't want to. I don't want to talk about these people in any negative term. These are people.

[A]

Agreed.

[B]

They have worth, but they don't have a home.

[A]

So there's nothing wrong with being homeless.

[B]

Yeah, just making sure I'm home, so.

[A]

That doesn't make me good or bad. So that is a topic we're talking about that I don't take it as negative. Okay. And so, like, if I'm talking to somebody out there, the least of their concerns is whether I called them unhoused or homeless. Okay? They're homeless. They don't have a home right now. We need to address that topic. Okay, so go ahead. So.

[B]

So you kind of described a circle of just how they stay and what. What state and condition they're in. And you specifically talked about substance abuse. But that circle is also for, you know, getting mail, staying in contact with family, getting documents and record. Again, going back to a statistical view of that, there are so many homeless people, but some of those homeless people have a hard time getting out of that loop. It's terrible, difficult, terrible difficult.

[A]

So make no doubt about it. So let's just pretend that you are homeless. Okay? You need to get a driver's license, okay? That's one of the steps. You got to have an id, Not a driver's license. I always say driver's license. It's an id. A driver's license. Okay, that's another step. But you need an id. You need a text, anything. Anything in this world, you got to have an id. Okay, how do you get an id? Well, you go to the driver's license office. Well, how do you get driver's lifestyle? You got to be able to get there. Okay? So that's irregardless. But the only way to get an ID is you must have a address where you have received mail for the last 60 days. If you're homeless, what is that?

[B]

You don't have it.

[A]

You don't have it. So then we have a post office box here, because you're going, okay, how in the world you got to have that? You got to have a place that you can receive mail for the last 60 days. If you don't have an ID, you can't get in a hotel. If you don't overnight stay, you can't get in a hotel. You can't get any of the services around here without an id. If the police stop you on the side of the road, I need to see your id. You ain't got an id they can take you to the big house.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Okay, so how is a person who has no address supposed to get an ID if they have no place that they've received mail? Can't do it. So then that's why we have SO A. We have post office boxes for people here that they could receive mail here. You got to have a place. You got to have a way to get on the computer to make an appointment with the Texas Department of Public Safety. You got to. So we have access to that. These steps, I would say to get out of homelessness is astronomically expensive. And I would almost say it is about as close to impossible to do solely on your own. It's not simply a matter in the world anymore. Everybody's like, ah, why don't they just go get a job? Okay, I agreed a job would be a good thing. Go find me a job that doesn't take an id. Okay, let's pretend you have. Go find me one. In society, if it's that easy, you go find me a job that they don't require you to have an id, Social Security card, okay, you gotta have one of those. Go find me one that doesn't take that. And then he. Let's pretend you made a mistake, okay? And you have a felony on your record. You've done your time, you've served your sentence for it, you've done the things necessary, but it's still held against. It's on your record case. And I'm not going down that road of whether you should or shouldn't have. Okay, that I'm not. That's not the discussion point. But you've committed a felony. There's only a certain population of jobs that will hire people that are convicted felons. They have every right to pick who they want to hire or don't hire. Okay, so then temple, a majority of those would be out in industrial. There's good jobs out there. Like you could look on the paper and go, ah, look, there's a job out here, pays 18 bucks an hour. Okay, great. I won't say any businesses names and even will take felons for their third shift. So like in the nighttime shift, the shift that nobody wants. Okay, but still a good job. Okay, so then you would work over here and it's going to get you 35 to 40 hours a week to go work at this place. And you go, ah, why don't they do that? I see every day in the paper. Okay, so let's just pretend you live over here. In temple, you are homeless, but you want to get a job and you have an id. Okay, so even you got an ID and you go get a job. So I walk over to. Because I don't have a car. No, I don't have a car. Oh, then use the hop. Oh, hop. Doesn't run to industrial. It doesn't go over to the place where the people could actually work. It doesn't run over there. Okay. Doesn't run in the third shift. Doesn't go at night. Okay. So I walk over there. Okay, from here to the places that could hire you as a crow flies, which means just straight line, like just go through all the buildings. You're probably looking. That's probably three and a half miles, maybe four miles, depending on. Let's just say three for easy math. But it's further than that. It's probably four miles, but okay, you get a job. Okay. There ain't no place to stay over there. No, Got a job, but. So then you have no transportation, you have no place to stay yet because you ain't got your first paycheck. So you got to work generally two weeks before you get a paycheck. And that's fair. That's just normal business stuff. Okay? So then you go, this person has got to work two weeks to get their first paycheck. They got to walk three or four miles each shift to get to the job on time. Then on the evening. So then what generally happens in this world is the person can't do that. They could, but that's very difficult. So that's very difficult. So then they find somebody who works on site on the same shift was them that happens to have a car. So then what they do is that person, hey, I'll take you to work. 20 bucks a day is all it's going to cost you. That's one hour of your work time. But then you get to drive to and fro.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so 20 bucks a day and I'll give you a ride, okay? Okay. I'm better than walking. So then they agree a spot that they're going to pick up here and there. And then guess what, after about day three, okay, dude doesn't show up to pick you up. He running late and he forgets about you. He gets to work, and now you are over here expecting to get a ride, and you're like, oh, crud, I got to be in work in 20 minutes.

[B]

That's three miles.

[A]

You ain't walking there. So you show up late to work and they're like, Ah, see, we don't want no part of that. Or in the winter, it's freezing cold and rainy. No, it's not that easy. Like, I mean, it's not just, I'm going to get a job. There's not many jobs right around in this area. Okay? There's jobs out there, but it's not that easy to just go work hard. There's so many other factors that fit into it. There's some that would love to work, some that don't want to work hard. I can't lie. I can't say to you that every single person that I run in contact with is wanting go work out there, okay? And I'd say also in the other issue that some of our not getting in political or any of that stuff, some of the systems that we have in place allow people to have just enough money to stay in a terrible state of homelessness. You get a government check that gives you $1,200 a month. Okay, Either A or B. I can go get a couple nights in a hotel room, $50 a night, and then spend it on who knows what, which everybody has a right. I can't tell somebody what to do with their money or not to do with their money. But it allows just enough money for somebody to stay in that. It's not good. No, not good. It's not a. It's not a good system at all. And so then you look at that 1200 bucks. Well, they don't have enough. That's not a down payment for a house. Nowhere you can't get it. You can't put a deposit down on a apartment because you don't have the money. It's a terrible, vicious cycle that could stay exactly where you are. Any of us. 60 bucks a night for these terrible hotels around here, you know, Because Lord forbid somebody wants to stay inside for a bit. So, man, I'm going to take a week inside because it's really hot and I'd love to be able to sleep in air conditioning. So that's 420. $20 out of that money gone. Oh, and I also, because I messed up, I got a title loan sitting on me. So that's another 300 bucks. So there's 900 of your money gone, and you ain't even started. Well, I still got to feed myself. How you get out of that loop, it's incredibly tough. It's very difficult. And so we. Look, it's not one factor. It's not simply, oh, man, go work hard, find me the job that they could walk to around here, and we'll have them in it.

[B]

And that's. That's the. That's the big difference. I want our listeners to see. It's not just one.

[A]

It's not one thing. And even I would even go on that one. It's not simply an answer of let's just find houses for everybody.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

There's issues that come with that. Housing only is not simply the answer. Okay? There's got to be wraparound services. There's got to be case managers. There's got to be interjecting for people to help others navigate out of this long, difficult process and to navigate a path you can't tell me like. So if you said, I like the backpack, okay, it's the last metaphor, and then I'm going to go deal with Daniel. So I like to backpack. I've backpacked. I've climbed some decent mountains. I've been to different countries and climbed. Okay, I like it. You can't simply say to Jeff, go climb Everest. There's so much involved that comes with that. Okay, great. I need a support group around me to help me do that.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

People that have done it. Okay, first thing you got to do, Jeff, okay, using. You got to do this. You got to do this. You got to do this. Here's what the training is. Here's where you need to be. Here's the steps. You got to do this. Here's the. The process. You got a guide. They ain't going to let me go do it by myself. No, you're going to go die. So then they go, you got to get a guide. You got to get this. You got to get this. You got to get this. You got to do all these steps in the process, and then it's possibly doable. And the magic thing. Done right. Okay. Done right. Guess what happens. Jeff makes it to the summit. He comes back to Temple, Texas, and you know what he says? Made it to Everest on my own. Look at that. I'm that good of a backpacker. I did it on my own. No, he didn't. No, he didn't. Okay. But all the people that supported him along the way, they're not also going. I'm the one who got him there. No, it's done right. Jeff has every right to believe he did it completely on his own. But he didn't. He didn't. He had a whole bunch of other people that supported him along the way. And I'd say it's equally as wrong for anybody along the way. The airline that Flew me to Nepal. Do they have a right to take credit for me to get in the top of Everest? Probably so, because they flew me there. Okay. But they shouldn't. They shouldn't be the ones sitting back there going, jeff would have never got there if we hadn't flown him there. He didn't do doodley. I'm the one who got him there. Okay. Or back here. Way back here. That. The driver's license. They have no right to be the ones that. I'm the one that got them there. Jeff has every right to say, I'm the one who did this. Okay. Knowing full well that they solely did. That's this process. There's many, many steps and many entities that come into this. It's not simply enough to say, go do this. So we will take this up again because I got to go talk to Danielle to a person. Okay.

[B]

And just. Just in closing.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

First of all, thank you for answering questions.

[A]

No, I didn't answer any. So that was the best part of it. I said nothing of merit of. But go ahead. Closing.

[B]

Just. Just in closing. We. We. We really want to. I really want to have. Emphasize. And we both want to emphasize just that these. These individuals are so, so precious to the community. They're so precious to the world. They have so many. So many reasons that they've come here and so many reasons that they're moving forward.

[A]

Yeah, I agree. And out of this, I would say not to cut you off is that that's the key is statistics. The stats, they don't tell the whole story exactly. Not even remotely close. The whole story that is occurring here is that people, people and individual people are involved in this world. And we would, as a community, would hopefully agree on this commonality, not how the person got here, but this is not someplace that people should stay for the rest of their lives. Now, we would agree on that. And all I would say is the end of the day is not. I don't know, because I'm not a doctor of this percentage or that percentage. I am not an expert in addiction. It doesn't matter. I am an expert on understanding that people have value and worth and that our community needs to understand all the people that are in part of our community. And not that everybody is the solution, but let's get alongside of other people and help them climb. Let's move forward. Okay. In Africa, when you are climbing, you're going to hear like, I've done Kilimanjaro, whatever. So we won't get into all that. Okay. But the whole time you're climbing, the guides that you were with, they are Swahili. They don't even speak the same language that I am. And you are going to hear over and over and over the whole climb, okay? They're going to tell you from the start, and they're going to tell you on the last day, they're going to say this simple phrase. They're going to say, pole, pole, pole, pole, Mr. Jeff pole, pole, pole, pole. Okay? And you're like, what in the world? It means slow, slow, slow, slow, move slow, but always up. Pole, pole, slow, slow, slow, progress. You never stop moving forward. Never would they allow me to stop. Never would they allow me to turn back around and go back to where I had come from. What an option. Never would they let me get too far ahead of myself. They just simply said, pulley, poly, slow, slow, slow, slow. Trust the pace and keep moving forward. So for all of us, game it's that they didn't really ask, Jeff, why are you here on this mountain? They knew their job was to help me get to this place. If I'm there, my job was to get to the summit, and their job was to help me to get there. And you know what's funny is, Jeff, I got a picture of my office. You saw it there? Okay, so Jonathan saw it. It is Jeff and the two other people that climbed together with our hands lifted on the top of Mount Kilimanjaro, Africa. What you don't see in that picture is the 17 people that were part of the group that got Jeff and Kyle and Ian Jackson to the top of Mount Kilimanjaro. We didn't do it on our own pictures, me and myself. I'm looking all, ooh, super duper climber, dude. Well, that's awesome. 17 people that did all the steps and that carried this stuff and that helped and that set this and that guided us and directed us. That's how we got where we needed to get. You want to see how to solve this homeless issue? Don't worry about whether 70% of the climbers that came to Mount Kilimanjaro came because they are. I don't know what. They came there because they're climbers and they wanted to reach a spot that they couldn't get solely on their own. I can't tell you why everybody is here at Feed My Sheep. All I can tell you is that we are all called to climb up, upwards, up. We're called to move. And some days I didn't want to go and the guides nicely helped me going forward. Some days I wanted to go really fast because they were strong. But they knew that would not be good seven days down the road because I'd have all my energy gone. They knew what we had to do. I trusted them. And we learn together. Pole, Pole. Slow, slow. But always, always, always, always going forward. Always going forward. That okay? Statistically, I don't know what percentage of people made it to the top or don't make it to the top. Doesn't matter to me. I knew where I was told I needed to be and I got there. I knew that people made sure that failure was not an option. And I also knew that I did all the things I possibly could to set myself up for the highest probability of success. We can do that and feed my sheep. And we do it simply because of one simple factor. Not because I benefit any. Not because I am better than anything. Not at all. We simply go along on the climb. I will go downstairs and work with this lady. We will get her into a place of help and healing. Simply because the truth that we function out of is not why somebody's here. Not the percentage chance of this or that, simply because of the fact people matter. They matter. That's it. And then out of that, I would say to anybody listening, so my mother or whoever, the other two people that listen to this, okay, I would tell you, if you're hearing this, the simple truth is, okay, statistics don't define you. You 100% matter. And not because I am saying that fact, because God proclaimed it himself. And then with it comes this last little closing deal, okay? The truth is simply this. By saying the sentence I matter, you are also not just saying that you matter in that everything should be poured upon you. You also matter in that you could also be poured. Part of the help of helping getting somebody out of the place that they're at and climbing up. You matter. People matter. If you are a person, you matter in the whole equation. So like out as I'm driving crazy statistics, I'm done with all of that stuff. And it's good. So all of that stuff is just to come back to. I'll go downstairs and I'm going to go talk to somebody. Not because there's a percentage chance that they will or won't do this or that I don't care. What I care is they walk out of this and know that they mattered, okay? And that we climbed. We can go climb. I may happen to be at this section of the path that I can help with the climb. Let's climb. Let's get people moving. So, enough of that. We're going to get back on this deal. I got to go take care of her. Ambulance is here. All kind of people looking for me, so. That's good. Hope they keep going by here, but good to hear. Good to be back, Isaac. Good to be here.

[B]

Thank you. I hope I. I hope I did a good job.

[A]

No, you did pretty bad, but we'll let you slide. I will see like if we got a recording of this. You did a good job. If we don't have a recording, you didn't do a good job.

[B]

Okay, Sounds good.

[A]

Later, Sam.