From Relief to Recovery: Empowering Change: Part 1

Summary

The Collage Podcast

Episode: From Relief to Recovery: Empowering Change: Part 1
Host: Feed My Sheep (A), with Nancy (B)
Date: February 10, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode, recorded during an exceptionally cold and icy week in Temple, Texas, takes a deep dive into the challenges and aspirations of moving from immediate relief to genuine recovery and ultimately to restoration for people experiencing homelessness. Using a model familiar in disaster recovery—relief, recovery, restoration—the hosts critically assess how social service agencies function, why doubling resources doesn't always double outcomes, and what it truly means to empower change in individuals and communities. Real stories, especially around the recent freeze and local initiatives, anchor the philosophical and practical discussion.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Relief-Recovery-Restoration Model Explained

• Relief: Immediate, emergency response (shelter, meals, essentials) in crisis situations such as natural disasters or extreme weather.
• Recovery: The phase where structural and personal obstacles are addressed to begin returning people to "normalcy" (e.g., getting power back on, repairing basic needs).
• Restoration: Long-term, sustainable transformation so that individuals are equipped to avoid recurring crises—ideally ending the cycle of dependency.

"There is a model that relief agencies use—relief comes first... then recovery... [then] you want restoration." (A, 03:00)

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2. Temple vs. Killeen: Does More Mean Better?

• Temple has about twice as many social service agencies focused on homelessness as neighboring Killeen.
• Despite the resource disparity, both communities have similar outcomes in moving homeless individuals from relief to restoration.

“You would think that Temple having so many social service agencies... we would be solidly in the restoration phase... But the truth of it is, there’s really not a whole lot of difference...” (B, 05:53)

• Raises the question: Why do increased resources not translate into doubled or even significantly improved outcomes?

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3. Defining Success: Restoration and Self-Sustainability

• Restorative Phase: Individuals are not just housed but have gone through necessary treatments (like substance use recovery), are employed, and are self-sustaining.
• Distinction made between "self-sufficiency" (short-term survival, possibly at risk) and "self-sustainability" (long-term, stable, thriving).

“You could be self-sufficient and still be at risk... But it’s not long-term sustainable... Even if you got lucky and survived one night, you would ultimately succumb to the elements.” (B, 11:46–12:47)

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4. The Disconnect: Goals vs. Outcomes in Nonprofits

• Of the 12–14 active agencies in Temple, only about three are truly focused on restoration as an organizational goal.
• Most agencies are geared towards providing relief, with only a handful moving people through recovery to restoration.

“I would say probably three... It’s easy to get to that number because of the services that they provide...” (B, 18:08)

• The nonprofit ecosystem is often fragmented by differing goals (relief vs. restoration).

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5. Empowerment, Engagement, and the Limits of Transactional Aid

• True restoration demands individual participation—individuals must be empowered, not just served.
• Organizations that do everything for people risk fostering dependency, causing individuals to revert to relief instead of making sustainable progress.

“Only the individual can truly restore himself.” (A, 23:46)
“You must do it [empower people] that way. That way being empowering people to be part of the process.” (A, 57:16)

• Sharing the example of clients stepping up to help run Feed My Sheep during the freeze: their engagement was validating and transformative.

“It’s that they want to be a part of this solution. If we would have said, no, no, no, we got this, go sit down... that would have been, I think, a detriment to them.” (B, 31:38)

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6. The Role of Relationship vs. Transaction

• Transactional help (giving food, shelter, or money) doesn’t foster restoration; relational investment (trust, empowerment, individualized support) is required.
• The recovery phase can’t be achieved with a purely transactional mindset.

“...going from a transactional relationship... to relational and seeing them as a person who needs validation...” (B, 35:39)

• Example: Helping an elderly woman recover from storm damage required months of trust-building before even simple logistical needs could be addressed.

“That took time to build the trust and build the relationship so that she could then deposit the check...” (B, 41:47)

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7. Challenges and Reflections

• Relief is "easier" to deliver (meals for 200 people), while building relationships for recovery is much harder, even with just two people.
• The hosts stress the importance of critically assessing mindsets and evaluating programs: Are we empowering or enabling persistent relief dependency?

“It feels good for the volunteer... I invested in a relationship and it was really messy... and I haven’t seen a whole lot of net results yet. Not quite as fun.” (A, 51:06)

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8. Urgency for Mindset Shift

• Homelessness, mental illness, and addiction collectively represent a massive, ongoing disaster—relief is only the start.
• Without a clear goal and coordinated effort to move towards restoration, the cycle repeats endlessly.

“One of the biggest natural disasters for humanity that our country’s ever faced.” (A, 48:44)

• The goal must be set before the journey begins; otherwise, activity without purpose leads nowhere (“if you do not have the point, if you're not trying to get anywhere, wherever you are is exactly where is a great place to be.” (A, 53:57))

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On the cold and shared adversity:
  “If you could see the room... we don't have a heater in this room, so it is quite cold. So Nancy's got a heater blowing on her in a jacket.” (A, 01:05)

• On comparing Temple and Killeen:
  “There’s really not a whole lot of difference between the west part of our county and the east part of our county as it relates to moving from one phase to another.” (B, 07:51)

• On self-sufficiency vs. sustainability:
  “You could be self-sufficient and still be at risk of dangerous circumstances... But it’s not long-term sustainable... Ultimately you would succumb to the elements.” (B, 11:46–12:47)

• On the limits of relief:
  “If all the money, if everything... is poured in solely to just relief, okay. Does that community ever truly get to the recovery phase? ... I would say no.” (A to B, 29:41–29:43)

• Validation in agency and helping each other:
  “They [clients] want to be a part of this solution. If we would have said, no, no, no, we got this, go sit down... that would have been, I think, a detriment to them.” (B, 31:38)

• On the challenge of relationship-based recovery:
  “Jeff, you got to help 200 people to get towards recovery—you need to build relationships with 200 people... No, two, even two is a lot.” (A, 50:27–50:40)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Introduction and Setting the Scene: 00:00–03:00
• Relief-Recovery-Restoration Model: 03:00–04:30
• Temple vs. Killeen Comparison: 04:30–09:20
• Defining Restoration and Self-Sustainability: 10:36–13:19
• Nonprofit Goals and Efficacy: 16:40–20:51
• Empowerment and the Individual’s Role: 23:45–26:12
• Transactional vs. Relational Aid: 35:39–38:49
• Real-Life Story—Volunteers & Clients During the Freeze: 30:38–36:48
• Clients Helping Clients—A Model for Empowerment: 56:36–57:35
• Wrap-up & Reflections: 59:14–61:42

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Closing Thoughts

The hosts challenge both themselves and their community to reevaluate what success looks like in addressing homelessness, urging a pivot from well-intentioned but short-term relief towards durable, relationship-based restoration. Real progress depends on clear goals, empowered individuals, and nonprofits willing to engage deeply, even when the process is slow, messy, and hard to measure.

“You matter in all of this stuff, in the recovery, in the restoration, wherever you're at and whoever we are talking, you matter.” (A, 61:42)

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Hey, we want to welcome everybody to the Collage podcast today. Hope y' all are doing well wherever you're at here. Where we are at, we are in little place called Temple, Texas at a location called Feed My Sheep. And as we speak today, it is really cold outside.

[B]

It is, yeah.

[A]

So we got Nancy here today. Our town had a big snow. Not big snowstorm. Ice and sleet and all that. And the roads are froze over. So Nancy's office is. Is closed until noon. Not that that matters, but it's. Our town has been a little bit of a disarray.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that's where we're at today as we record this. It's cold in here. If you could see the room, the heater. Oh, we don't have a heater in this room, so it is quite cold. So Nancy's got a heater blowing on her in a jacket. So if we have a little moments of hypothermia out there, we apologize for that. So we're just going to kind of continue our discussion and go down the path that we're on. So we're going to kind of look at this. This idea because at Feed My Sheep, a lot of the people and our. A lot of our business models, we serve and we work with a lot of people that are homeless in the temple community. Okay. So that's kind of our population base that we work out of and with. So that's kind of our point of reference on that. So Nancy and I have been having discussions about this model of when emergency situations occur in a community that is a flood comes or a tornado comes or a hurricane comes, whatever. Those. Those happen to be all natural disasters. But when they come to an area, we would look, there is a model that relief agencies use, which is their first. They come into an area and they just immediately provide relief. I'm going to come give. There's bottles of water. We need a place to stay for tonight. Like today. They've had all kind of meetings with the city of this. What are we going to do if the power goes out? What are we going to do if this. So all of these things, how to provide immediate relief. Then the next phase is recovery. So then, ah, the power went out. Why did the power go out? Oh, a bunch of tree limbs got frozen and they fell on the power lines. Power lines broke. So we got to repair those and get them back. That's how you recover power. We get that because you want people to have power back. You don't want them to go, ah, I Kind of like staying in the. Whatever, the gym, and it's air. It's nice and warm in here, and everybody brings me food, and I'm just going to stay here. You don't want that. You want them to go back to what their life was like. You want them to get back into their house. You want them to have power. You want them to be safe. Okay? And then. So that's the recovery phase. Then the next thing is you want restoration, is you want to make sure that these problems that occurred, that they can possibly be alleviated in the future and they don't happen again. If tree limbs were an issue, then you make sure you go through and you trim out all the trees so they're not going to fall again. Okay, so the three processes, relief, recovery, restoration. We've had this discussion. This is part three we had. Sean came and talked to us last week. We looked at that. Nancy and I are going to look at it. So in that being the discussion, we may deviate a little bit. So Nancy has some ideas of what we want to talk about in the parameters of relief, recovery, restoration and that kind of deal. So, Nancy.

[B]

Okay, so I think it's interesting that we are having this conversation at the same time. We're doing a point in time count in our community. The point in time count is an annual sort of snapshot of what homelessness numbers are for America, like everybody does at the same time of year. And we do it as a part of a larger coalition of communities under the Central Texas sort of umbrella. One of the communities that we work with is the city of Killeen, which is about, I don't know, 25 miles away from here, west of here. And it's. It's interesting to sort of compare and contrast the two communities because we're. We're similar in size relatively, but very, very different in how we handle social services. So the city of Temple, or the community of Temple, not the city government, but the community of temple, has roughly 12, maybe 15 social service agencies that are working with people experiencing homelessness in. In our community, as compared to Killeen, which has maybe five, okay. Total. They have a very, very different approach to how they handle homelessness in their community. So as we're going through the point in time count, Temple as a community is able to really engage with a lot of different agencies and organizations and get out and really work with identifying the people experiencing homelessness where they're living. And many hands make for quick work, they say. And then in Killeen, it's. It's very different. There are just a few agencies that really do the lion's share of the work. But the interesting thing is, in. In the context of the conversation that we're having about relief, recovery, and restoration, you would think that temple having so many social service agencies working with people experiencing homelessness, that we would be solidly in the restoration phase. We have those many hands making quick work of this navigation process with these folks that are. That have found themselves to be without a home, as opposed to Colleen, which you would think they have less agencies that they would be. They would have a harder time getting out of the relief phase and into the recovery and restoration phases. But the truth of it is, there's really not a whole lot of difference between the west part of our county and the east part of our county as it relates to moving from one phase to another. So then it begs the question, why. Why is that? Why do. Since we have so many social service agencies working with these folks, why. Why is it so difficult to get them to go from relief to recovery and then recovery to restoration? And how can we better engage as a community and as. As a team of social service agencies to help further them along through that continuum of. Of care, so to speak?

[A]

Okay, so let me see for point of reference. So if you're out there and you're not from this area, so Colleen just right up the road from us. Okay. Comparable city, like Nancy said. So you are saying that. And they do. And I know this to be fact. I mean, like, we would look how they handle and do things. They're just too different. They're not too. It's just. They're not the same. Right. Okay. And so out of that, the point that we would start at in this discussion is, and I would agree, fair assessment, that we would probably say just roughly probably have double the nonprofit service providers in temple that they have in Colleen.

[B]

Easily.

[A]

Yeah, easily. I think double would be a conservative number. Okay, so basically double what they have in Killeen logic would infer or would point to that if you have two times the amount of resources, you should have twice the amount of outcomes.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay, so that's. That's a fair logic to go, man, we should see. At the very least, you should be able to see a noticeable difference in the two communities. Okay, he's going, man, there is so many more people that were homeless in temple that are not homeless anymore than there are in this other town because they have twice the resources, twice the number of people working with them. Okay. And you are saying the point of the discussion at this juncture is that is not what you are seeing.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Okay, so we would say marginal difference at all if, if, if any. Yeah, if any.

[B]

Yeah. I think we're, we're as two communities pretty close in the total number of. We'll call them success stories. Getting someone to the restoration phase.

[A]

Okay. And so then just for point of record, tell me roughly what a restorative phase of this could look like for a person. So what are we even talking about what that looks like?

[B]

I would say it would we have some that we can point to and say that. I would, I would argue that they are in the restoration phase. They have gone through substance use disorder treatment and are successfully housed, employed and self sustainable. Like they are able to manage their own finances and they're no longer at risk of homelessness. That is restoration.

[A]

Okay, so then, and then one of the key words that you said in the self sustainability.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay, is there a difference? Let me ask on this because this is where it. So it could get. Okay, we're going to head off in the weeds here. Is there a difference in self sufficient and self sustainability?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Why? What is the difference? Self sufficient to you means what?

[B]

Well, I feel like you could be self sufficient and still be at risk of dangerous circumstances happening to you. So you mentioned that we've gone through this freeze event and just so everybody knows that's listening, the temps got down into the single digit feel like, feels like temperatures were single digits. We had ice and snow and it was really, really, really cold outside. Okay, okay, so we have some folks and I spoke to my son about it earlier and his words were people, our people can be pretty inventive when it comes to surviving. Like they can figure things out and they can find shelter and they can get in out of the cold and figure it out. So that in my mind is self sufficient.

[A]

Okay, fair.

[B]

But it's not long term sustainable. Like you couldn't sustain in that kind of weather. Long term. Even if you got lucky and you were able to survive one night, if it were, if it were long term, a weather event that went on multiple nights and the temps didn't give up, get above freezing, ultimately you would succumb to the elements.

[A]

Oh, I'd agree with that. Okay, so then because many of our people. So just to clarify that, because like we could go talk to some of the people that they made it. Yeah, they went outside, I made it. I can take care of myself, I am self sufficient. Yeah, then I might with you then. Huh? That's Interesting. I might would look at it differently, but yes, you're. You are. Had an ability to survive last night in that, you know, I talked to one man. Was it cold last night? Yeah, it's pretty cold. But he had gotten an electric blanket from somewhere, found somewhere that I'm sure somebody's house that didn't know that he was staying under their house or something and. Or something of that sort. Yeah, okay. But had electricity because electric blankets need electricity and if you're out on the street, you don't have electricity. Okay. So. But he found a place with electricity, plugged in, electric blanket, made it through the night on that and he was super proud of it. Okay. And you go, wow, man. Huh? I guess so. I mean, like that. But that is not self sustaining. That is not truly long term living. Right. Okay, so then we're going to say the restorative phase is you must be set up and to be given the tools to survive long term.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. So like there is. I can, if I'm backpacking, I get caught in a bad storm, I need to make a quick shelter. Okay. That gets me out of the elements for a little bit. That's not where I'm going to live the rest of my life.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. I can even stay in a tent. And a tent could last me for a little bit longer. But for long term, you'd go, huh? You might want to build some sort of a cabin out of trees or this or that. A more permanent structure.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So we would. Look, those are different stuff. So let me ask you on that. Why do you think? And man, let's just ask the huge question. So if we got double the nonprofits and temple and we were receiving negligible to little, any difference in lack of a better term of people moving towards self sustainability between the two communities, what is the greater picture? What is that showing us or telling us about this? Is it an investigation into the models of the non profits in temple? Is it an investigation into the goals of what we are doing? Are we all. So then you would go, well, maybe all the nonprofits aren't working with the same goal in mind.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay, so then there goes some that would say no. Okay, you could. We are not about getting somebody to restoration. We're just simply. I want to provide relief. Provide relief. Provide relief. Okay, so then you'd go out of that. So then if you would. Look, just guessing, not holding you to anything. Okay, so we have double the number. Let's say we have 12 to 14 nonprofits. Not even Counting churches. Churches are nonprofits. Okay. And they part of this too. That's a whole other discussion. Whole other discussion. But let's say we got 12 to 14 that are going to solicit funds and they're working in this area. Okay. Out of the 14, how many? If you were just guessing, we're not going to say any names or anything because every nonprofit out there, yours is the one that's doing everything great. Okay. So we love. You're the best. Okay. How many of those do you think, if you were saying, are truly on the goal of getting people to the restorative phase and to getting them into self sustainability. That is the single overriding goal and all that they do. Out of 14, you would say, and this is. No, we're just discussion. How many you think?

[B]

I would say probably three.

[A]

Okay, three, yeah.

[B]

And it's easy in my mind to get to that number because of the services that they provide, whether they fall in the immediate relief category versus the recovery category, versus the restoration category. So, so the types of services. So we've got like, I'll use Feed My Sheep, since we're here as an example. Our primary goal daily is to make sure that people's immediate needs are met. So they. We feed people as our main activity. That's a relief activity.

[A]

Okay, fair.

[B]

And then we have substance use disorder treatment facilities. Three of them. Those, I would say, are working in the recovery phase as their primary purpose. And that's when it kind of dries up a bit. I think maybe some of our programs through the city with tenant based rental assistance might be also kind of categorized in the recovery phase. Working towards restoration, hopefully as the. As the ultimate goal, because we do want them to get off of the subsidy as the program ends. But outside of that, I can't think of one single agency that would be working primarily on restoration. I could be wrong. I could be missing that. But as. As a category of services provided, I can't think of one.

[A]

Hmm. So you would say most in here that the areas that we are servicing are just straight relief?

[B]

Most of them, yes. So hotel rooms for people that need emergency shelter. Emergency shelter is. Is a relief activity.

[A]

Okay, fair.

[B]

Food supplies. They could also be providing services like helping them get identification. And that could be. That could kind of overflow into recovery activity as well. So that might, that might also cover some of the. The things that they do, but I can't think of any in the restoration phase.

[A]

So let me ask you this just in a theological, like not the, in a philosophical. Because we're just kind of looking at this stuff. So then that would tell me. Straight net result that truly the goal of restoration is not the goal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That is not how we function because nobody's making it in that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So I mean, we could say one thing. Like I can say, hey, I want to get to the top of that mountain. If I'm not climbing up that mountain, if I'm going down, away from it, I'm never going to get to the top of that mountain. I can say whatever I want to say. But if that's not where I'm climbing and every step is getting me closer to that and I'm single minded, then you have to acknowledge that's not your goal.

[B]

Yeah. However, I do think that the majority of the agencies that we work with have a mindset that our purpose is to help people, to stabilize them so that they, they can then have the opportunity and the wherewithal and the, you know, just the chance to take on their own transformation, make decisions for themselves that lead them to ultimate restoration. So agencies are just sort of bridging a gap that the person themselves would then have to take advantage of and pull themselves up the mountain, so to speak.

[A]

Okay, fair enough. Because so some of this stuff that you could look at, relief, that's an easy no brainer. There were people that were freezing to death, possibly last night, and immediately we got to get them out of the cold.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Easy recovery, bigger long term picture. So now we're talking bigger, bigger picture. Okay. There would be many people that would speak on this subject, that would say that as an agency, as a nonprofit, as anything, if you do everything for a person in the recovery phase, you do everything for them because you don't empower them in that phase to be part of the recovery. You, you can never come to true restoration. Because true restoration, you would say, doesn't truly lie within an organization. An organization can't restore somebody completely.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Only the individual can truly restore himself.

[B]

I would say the individual has to participate in their own recovery for sure. Well, it won't be effective.

[A]

Agreed. Okay, so then we would say, because then much of an aid mindset of you come do this for this person or these group of people in another country and you do this and you do this and you bring in this technology and you do this and you do this and you do this and you do this and then you do not let the people be part of that process and have helped themselves and to understand what's going on and to be making some decisions and to do this, if you don't truly empower of community, best case scenario is they're just going to stay in recovery phase. Highest probability is they're going to revert all the way back to the relief phase and be dependent on that again because they didn't have the tools necessary to true to get to restoration phase because it was done completely for them.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. I E. Go look at some different African, you know, countries. Nothing negative to them. Go look at Somalia. Go look at Ethiopia. Go look at Haiti.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So we look at that bigger picture. So then we're taking that same model down to individual people. And to say that true restoration lies with the individual, giving the people the opportunity to make that decision in the recovery phase lies with the nonprofits and the individual.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So there's an obligation like. So I'm saying this, the metaphor is a non profit or a agency that's wanting to help can't just sit on the side and say, hey, if you just did this and did this and did this, you'd be fine. If you just had some two by fours and you had some hammers and you had this and you had this and you had this, you would be able to make it. But too bad you don't. And well, that person is no better off.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

Okay. So giving them the tools, giving them the resources, giving them the direction to help them do it for themselves gets them to this proper place, which is an opportunity to go. I truly want to have not self sufficiency that I can figure out how to make things on my own. Okay. It's self sustainability. I built a cabin, whatever. I have a house. I have gotten my mental clarity. I am well on these. They can live, they can have life abundantly. So if that is the fact and that is the case, why then would you think we are being so, at this juncture, less than effective on getting people to the restorative phase in Little Temple, Texas?

[B]

That's a really good question.

[A]

The million dollar. And this is not picking on Temple. Okay. This is not at all. Because the same statistics like I don't know on the nonprofit age. So I don't know if you're. If your area that you're listening to has. You may have ready. We could go just up the road to Austin. And they probably have 10 times, 20 times. Oh yeah, the non profits. If not 30 times. It's bigger. Okay, so it's a much bigger town. Okay. But let's just say 20, 30 times the number of nonprofits that Temple has Yeah. Yet the number of people they're getting to self sustainability, not astronomically hiring. There's some exceptions to that rule. Okay. Community first village. I would take that argument and concede that I probably would go, yeah, they're doing a pretty decent job of getting people out of this world into a community, into what they would call self sufficiency. Seems to be, seems to be from the outside looking in. Okay. And statistics would back up that you go, and if we could mirror those numbers as a community, then you're going, we've done pretty good. Okay. So along the same lines, so many, so many resources like this is true. There's a lot of resources being poured out into the homeless issue. And wherever you're at on it doesn't. Doesn't really matter on this. The fact is there in resources would equate to dollar bills. A lot of money, lot of money being poured onto the homeless topic right now in our country. And as it should be, you might go, as it should be, There's a lot of people. It's a big issue all over. All municipalities are, are dealing with this topic. It's big. Okay, So let me ask you this. If all the money, if everything in a relief effort and all the stuff is poured in solely to just relief, okay. Does that community ever truly get to the recovery phase?

[B]

I would say no.

[A]

Okay, agreed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's not just straight poor and resource. It's not. If we see a hurricane come, they don't have drinking water and you go, I'm going to make sure they got $10 million worth of bottled water.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Guess what? They got $10 million worth of bottled water and a lot of plastic and a bigger problem. Okay. It's relief, religious recovery, restoration. The mindset has to be there from the get go. There is an outlay of capital at the start. We need to have a bunch of bulldozers down here. Okay. But with the mindset, why are the bulldozers there? Because we need to get places back. We need people in houses quick. We need people into the restorative phase to get this community back and better.

[B]

Than it was before and getting the individuals to participate in that part of the process as well.

[A]

Agreed?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, agreed.

[B]

I thought it was really beautiful over the weekend. We had again, that was when we had our big snowstorm of temple. The volunteers couldn't make it here to feed my sheep. So it was me and Jeff and our clients. People experiencing homelessness were there with us and that was it. And they jumped in and started working, got behind the counter started making food, got the coffee going, you know, getting the donuts out. They were helping. And Jeff turned to me and said, what do you see? What are you learning? And it's that they want to be a part of this solution. If we would have said, no, no, no, we got this, go sit down, we're going to serve you. We don't need your help, that would have been, I think, a detriment to them.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

In that moment.

[A]

Good. So there's in it. It's an interesting. Yeah, interesting discussion point. Okay. Because there's one mindset and I would, I would grant this one. Okay. Like there's one possible way to look at that and to go, man, that might be the single kindest act is no, you sit down and I'm going to serve you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. In on surface, it can look really kind. Okay. And it may be in a pure intention. No, you sit there and I'm going to do this for you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. In a relationship. Okay. And somebody you love and you're not feeling well or whatever, and they say, no, I want you to sit down and I'm going to do this for you. I'm going to serve you. And you'd go, that would. We'd equate that to going. That's. That. That would be signs of love. Okay. So there is that. So we're taking that and going. Okay, that you could go, man, that's. That could be really kind. There is moments that. That could be really kind.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

There's also moments that that same mindset could be really unkind.

[B]

Agreed.

[A]

Okay. If Jeff is moping around or whatever and not sick, but just allowing him to stay in that place and I'm not empowering him to help be part of the solution. He's just going to stay. I'm going to stay right there. Not kind.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. So in it for yesterday. So some people go, oh, no, we need to serve. I not disagreeing with that logic. I'm saying at this point, like in it, I think sometimes we can go overboard on that and forget to allow people to be part of the process.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. Because like here, a volunteer based organization and we are. Okay. And so like I look at a. We got a group of volunteers, whatever, and it's good. They're going to come in and whenever they can get on the roads the next day or the next day, and I'm not picking on any group. And guess what? They are going to make sure everybody doesn't come help because they want to come. It Feels good. And we're going to get back to the same deal of nope. Y' all go in there. Even though everybody here was serving themselves, they're right now monitoring themselves. Okay. We got people that are help and we're gonna go. No, now we're going back all. They're there, we're here. We help you. You take our help.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Not as good, right? Okay. Not as good. So in the what mine. The mindset is not cruel, but all relief workers, if they really have been trained well in natural disasters, they understand and they have been coached of getting the community to come on board and be part of this and incorporating them in this process.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because they understand my job is not solely to come and keep everybody just in this relief phase. It's empowering them into the recovery phase.

[B]

Yeah. Going from a transactional relationship where we're providing some thing to them. Food, an overnight stay in a hotel, like let me just give you. Let me throw something at you. To not, not literally, but to get you through. But a relationship with them. Going from transactional to relational and seeing them as a person who needs validation. Like the volunteers that were working here this weekend, they felt good about what they did and they did a fantastic job.

[A]

They did. They took care of each other. It was very nice.

[B]

It was beautiful to watch. And they. That made them feel validated that they were. That they had something to contribute. And it was a valuable thing that everybody needed them to contribute and it. It created an opportunity for relationship rather than just us, you know, giving them a thing. A food, a donut.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Agree. They'd have been just fine without a doughnut.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Maybe not the coffee, but like. But in it. Transactional. Is it? Here you go. Okay. So out of this we would say in the recovery phase. I'm not sure that you could get out of the recovery phase if it's solely a transactional event time and time again.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. Hey. Drove by your house. Here's your bottle water. See you tomorrow. Here's your bottle of water. See you tomorrow. Here's your bottled water. See you tomorrow. Okay. Do you ever come out of that? No. Guess what you're doing. Hey, I'm going to be wet nights. Four o'. Clock. They should be bringing my bottle of water today. Okay then if that same person in the recovery phase. Hey, Ms. Smith. Got your water here. Here's some food. Let's see. Oh, let's come up with the list. Here's the stuff we need to get on your house to get it Repaired. Here's the things that we need to do. Here's how we can do it. Okay? Empower the person to get them along the process. Whole different relationship.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Progress. How's the house coming? We got people, hey, got a group coming. They're going to help you with the house because they're coming from such and such town because they heard about the hurricane and they want to see this. And I've now plugged them in to come see you. And then the group comes in and sees Ms. Smith and she needs a new roof, but she doesn't have the money to get a new roof. So the resources easy to get, but it's going towards a goal. Which is. What's the goal? Help Ms. Smith to get back in her house and to have her life back again.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. So I'd even argue. So then Ms. Smith, we got. Hey, man, I've. Because I happen to know somebody who lives over here and that they come and they go help Ms. Smith and we pay for the roof and we got the stuff donated and we help her and then her family because she's got some boys that were old enough. We've seen this Hurricane Rita in Lake Charles, Louisiana.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We've still got friends from this game. We knew that you don't want Ms. Smith to stay in this same spot, okay. Knowing I can't get her to restore, I can't do whatever. But man, we can take care of this roof. That's moving her in a direction. But also she had family that were able to work with us. Okay. And she had a cousin that was a roofer. Guess what? Whether I needed a roofing supervisor or not, I had one. Okay. And so he came and he was very good. He made sure that Ms. Smith got a really good roof. That we did it right. Felt powerful in it. Okay. So if we had to come in and said, Ms. Smith, we want you to get to restorative deal. And here is $7,300 cash that we're going to give you and use that for the roof and good luck and we'll see you later. Would the same thing have occurred? Probably not.

[B]

Probably not. We actually had a lady similar situation that had a tree fall down on her house during the tornado in Temple a couple years ago. And she received a check from her insurance company for I think it was like $12,000. So she had this check, literal paper check that came in the mail and all alone in the world. She didn't have any family. Late 70s, elderly woman, and called us because she had no way to get to the bank to put the check in the bank and didn't know who to call. And she didn't trust anybody. Unlike Uber, she's heard bad things about. She's had heard bad things about that she didn't go to church, so she didn't really have. There were no connections for her. So she called us to try to get help to like even getting the check to the bank. That's all to say that it took someone that she trusted us to have communication with her. And it took us several conversations before she was even willing to let us help her. And we ultimately had someone from the bank come to her house to deposit the check, which I didn't even know was a thing, but apparently it is. And. But that even took time to build the trust and build the relationship so that she could then deposit the check, get the roofing company, which we had to work with her on that too, because she didn't trust any of the roofing companies.

[A]

Smart there.

[B]

Yeah. But there was no way that that could have been a transactional relationship. Like, we had to invest, I would say, a good month and a half, two months in that relationship to build the trust with her enough to get the check deposited, find the roofing company, get the job done, and now she's okay.

[A]

Ready all of that to get to this. Okay. Not all of that. Okay. So. But like this. Okay. In our discussion, being a nonprofit and working with the homeless, that's good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, we need that. Okay. Providing relief, Like, I would not argue, hey, people got to eat. Not arguing that. Okay, Good. To get people truly empowered in the recovery phase, A, you got to want to get out of relief phase and say, that's number one as the organization.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To go. We're not staying solely here. We're getting to the recovery phase, knowing that restoration lies at the end of the day, whether the person is willing to make that final step on their own. But recovery, for it to be truly the model of what it could be and what it must be, it is not transactional. It is relational.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It is an individual based metric. It is not. There is not. I would say on this topic of homelessness, there is not a set number. If you just wrote this check to each homeless person for this amount of money, then the problem with that person went away.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I don't think there is a number. I don't care. Whatever number you picked, okay. Whatever you're out there thinking, okay, you didn't get. No, there's not a number there's not a that it is an individual investment into a person empowering them to be truly enabled to make the decisions to help them head towards recovery. Done properly, I would say a, you stay on the goal, you got to know where we're going. But done properly, at the end, for somebody to make the jump into the restorative phase, okay, Whether it was fact or not fact. Okay. In reality, at the backside of the recovery phase, heading into restoration, they would believe they did this whole thing on their own. They had somebody there with them. But look what I did. I am so much better. I put a roof on my house. I did this. I put the fence up. I did this. I did. And obviously out there, everybody. I keep using this natural. I'm not talking about a house. We're not talking. That's necessarily the whole answer to self sustainability. We're talking about empowering people in the process to be part of the solution. And done properly, with individual investment in time and trust and relationships that are built up, you end up on the backside of this recovery phase. And. And they would be able to say the sentence, look what I did. Yeah, man, I rebuilt grandma's house and it's so much. Look what I did. I am in my world here and homeless and feed my sheep, man. I am now sober. I didn't think I could do that on my own, but I did. We got some that we can go. Look at that. And now I'm doing this, and now I'm doing this. And now I'm doing this. And. And you start going, that person. Yeah, that person. Go into restoration. That could go to life and life sustainable. Right? Okay. So I am saying so as individual. Our goal here in temple. And I don't have. I can't make goals for anybody, okay, Other than feed my sheep. I can say where I go. The goal must be, yes, we provide relief, but we are working towards individual restoration, empowering people. Otherwise, the same person that you have not invested in, in relationships and staying true to the path and any of that, by the time you get to the backside of recovery, you're like, I'm tired of messing with this person. They're not doing anything on their own. I already gave them $50,000 and I can't figure out why. They only got $1 left of it. I'm done with them. Guess where they go Right back to the same exact person. Without personal investment helping smooth out some of the bumps, helping some of these things clear out the path to allow them to be part of the answer and Truly empowering them without that empowerment.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They circle right back to relief.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And we're right back there, and they were right back with agencies going up, give us some money so we can help provide this relief. Okay. And not that.

[B]

That.

[A]

But we got to understand our job. If we're dealing with. I can't. We keep using this metaphor because it's good. It's not. We're not dealing with something that is trivial. This is a natural disaster. It's one of the biggest disasters. Homelessness and the unhoused population that our country's dealt with in a long, long time. There would be some. And then there's a lot of stuff looped in that the drug epidemic is very huge, and the mental illness crisis is very huge in our country, and the homelessness is very huge. They're kind of all intertwined together, but independently. So this is. Okay. So if you want to say mental health crisis is bigger than homelessness or addiction is bigger than mental health, which is bigger than homelessness, I wouldn't argue you. I'm saying they're kind of all intertwined loosely together. One of the biggest natural disasters for humanity that our country's ever faced.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Huge.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

Okay. And it's not going away. And I'm saying here, it's time for us to start realizing. I'm not sure that we are cognitive of that. We are just really functioning very much in the infancy of relief phase, and we are not really making the steps towards recovery, and we are sure not really making the steps towards restoration because we are not with that mindset yet.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We say it in words. We say it in words because you have to have it on your brochure, and you have to have it on your pamphlet, and you have to have it in your give me your money speech. Okay. But I would argue the. The metrics and the things would point to that we are much, much, much functioning in relief.

[B]

And as the chief said. Or Sean. Can I call him chief? That's the easy part.

[A]

It's easy. Not easy, but. Right.

[B]

It's the. It is the least difficult to manage.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The relief phase.

[A]

Easy. Like, I mean, not easy. Jeff, you got to feed 200 people today. Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I got a bunch of fish sticks. I need six. Okay. We'll feed 200 people today. Not really flinch.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Jeff, you got to help 200 people to get towards recovery.

[B]

You need to build relationships with 200 people.

[A]

I got that. Nope. Two, even. Two.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is a lot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's the difference.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Okay. And then also in some of this stuff. Hand in a plate of food is good. I'm not. Not. We're not discounting that. Make no doubt about it. It feels good for the volunteer. Hand in the plate over there.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

The group that's gonna come. You know what. Oh, it was so nice. You should have been there. I gave a nice warm food to all the homeless people that didn't have anywhere to go. I felt so good. It was so nice. It is.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Okay. Don't doubt that. That doesn't occur. I invested in a relationship and it was really messy and it was difficult and it was long term. And I haven't seen a whole lot of net results yet. Not quite as fun.

[B]

No. Especially when the ones that you're trying to develop the relationship with will be I love you one day and then I hate you the next day. And we never know what we're going to get.

[A]

And nothing occurred, did it?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay. Mental illness is difficult.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Life is difficult. Okay. And so. But interesting discussion. We're going to keep going a little bit on this and do. But out of there to look. It's just this mindset. Like, it's just a challenging deal to start looking at. Like here in the world. I'm at. If you give me twice the number of employees, I should have twice the number of outcome. We're not. It doesn't work that simple.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It just doesn't work that. Okay. And we're dealing with people. We're dealing with so many different. There's so many variables and all of this stuff. But the first thing we've got to come back to is we need to begin evaluating our mindset as a community, as nonprofits, as this stuff. Or how are we truly doing things? What are we truly doing and what do we hope to accomplish by doing these things this way? And you may come. Oh, we do this. And it is solely for relief.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And just. That's what it's for. Okay. Because I could get. Oh, you can't. Somebody is not going to be able to go to recovery if they're. Okay. I get it. When does recovery begin? When does relief end? Mm. There's a certain. There's a point. And so to look at that. Because if you do not have the point. If you're not trying to get anywhere, wherever you are is exactly where is a great place to be. Yeah.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

I don't have nowhere to go. This is just fine. If I got somewhere to Go. I know how far away I am. If I'm gonna drive to Houston today, I guarantee I know how many miles it is. I know if I'm in Brenham, I'm closer to Houston. Okay. I know the distance. I know where we need to go. I know we're getting closer. I know the objective at hand. I look at all of this, I know how much gas I have. Okay. And I know I can't make it all the way on this. I know these things. If I just hop in the car and drive, guess what? I maybe go around the loop and I end up right back here.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Let's. Nancy, let's go drive. Let's go for a little drive. And we're gonna go in the loop. We may go out to the farm, but guess where it's gonna end up? Right back here. Because we had no plan, we had no direction, we had no place that we were really trying to get to.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We drove, we got in a car, the same thing occurred, but we had no plan of where we were going. We had no idea what we were doing. I promise you, you're going to end up back at about the same place you started.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What I'm saying here is be so nice and so good. Not even have to be my plan. We don't have to, but we come together and go, man, you know what? What can we do to help as many people as possible today?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And maybe it's one. Maybe that's the number that's the goal for today. Maybe it's 10. But that we're trying to get people to true recovery, empowering them in that, and then also evaluating what we are doing as organizations and as individuals. Are we empowering or are we in enabling people to stay truly in relief? Okay. And so I would say we learned, we saw. Okay. I think we would have done a disservice. We would have done a disservice to our people. And the ones we work with. They're tired today. There ain't no two ways about it. I mean, we're cranky because they've stayed up for two days trying to help monitor stuff and to help and to serve breakfast. So little bit cranky, but not bad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We'd have done a huge disservice to have brought in people and had done it all for them and not allow them to be part of the plan.

[B]

Yeah. And we have an agency down the road that had one monitor on duty last night and 1. What a blessing it would have been for her if they Would have allowed some of the clients to come back to the back and help prep food this morning, you know, but with the guideline.

[A]

And then if the bigger picture is leading to recovery, you must do it that way.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

That way being empowering people to be part of the process.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Empowering people to be part of the plan. Enabling and teaching how to be part of that. If that's the goal, then that's what you do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If the goal is, I'm a relief agency and here's what I do, then you do that. And I'm saying it's time, I think, well, first, before you start out on a journey, you need to decide where the journey is going.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To sit down and go, hey, where are we trying to go? Why do we have twice. Why do we have twice the number of agencies? And we're not seeing much difference in any.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And this is not an offense, like. So it'd be one thing if we would go. The other community is just that, knocking it out of the park. They are just that spectacularly good at what they're doing. That's not the case.

[B]

No.

[A]

That's nothing. Negative. Okay. You know, but. So you would have to allow for that. They're just that much better. You know, we're not talking that. There's not anybody that could argue that they're any case. So then you'd go, well, then you need to evaluate what you're doing, because you're not getting twice the outcomes. That's nothing. Negative growth comes with evaluation. You must assess situation, circumstances, environmental factors, all these different things of what is occurring right here, whether it's fair or not fair. And what is going on and is this where we want to stay?

[B]

Mm.

[A]

If it is, you do. Yeah. And if it isn't, then you go, then what can we do to get to where we would like to get? So then you have to establish where we'd like to get. And I'm saying, if our goal is restoration, then we have to evaluate how do we get out of straight relief operation. And then how do we truly get on the page of helping as many people as possible in the recovery phase? Because the more people that are empowered in the recovery phase, the higher number of people that would possibly be able to step into restoration. And our belief is in the restoration phase, if it's truly been, then they don't circle right back to relief.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

That's how you solve this problem.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

That's how you solve this problem.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

So all of that tirade, it's cold in here, man. No two ways about it. Okay. So we do out there hope that's your thinking. And it's. It's just a different. A tiny bit of mindset change of what we're doing and not say anything negative. This is not negative on anything, but to kind of look at what we're doing, why we're doing it, how we're doing it, and where we're trying to lead people to. So that. Is that anything more? Nancy, we good?

[B]

I think we're good.

[A]

Okay, we're going to go warm up. Good to talk to everybody. And we will take this up again later and you all be safe out there. And like we always say in all of this stuff, whatever we're talking about, okay, the single thing that we do, everything we're about, all of this is about, we say that people matter. Okay. And then we would say that you matter as well. In this whole spectrum of things that we're discussing into what we're doing, you matter. You matter in all of this stuff, in the recovery, in the restoration, wherever you're at and whoever we are talking, you matter.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so we would say that we would come together as a community, all together, and then we understand the urgency of what is occurring and what we are trying to do. We all understand that we matter, that we are important in this. That's how you change a community. That's how you get a community from a disaster into restoration, stronger after the event than before. That's the goal. So out there, enough of that. We will take this up again. I hope you all have a great day and thank you very much.