← The Collage Podcast
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Welcome everybody to another edition of the collage podcast. Hope everybody is doing well out there as we are recording this. It is in the middle of the Christmas holiday season, not that that matters for anybody when you're listening to it. So that's kind of the chapter we're at today. It's pretty cold today, so in this room it's particularly cold. So we're kind of starting that to give you the deal. And today we're just going to have an interesting, I don't know, a little discussion because this time of year it's all everybody in this kind of world. It's a rush to get your help people for the year out of the way. Okay. So, like, it seems like there's a lot of people, there's a lot of rush and a lot of the world out there to go help and to do this and to do benevolence or to do good for others. And it is kind of the world that we would like to live in, but it's really busy of that this time of year. So the discussion today just to enter into, because we looked in our last two discussions, hey, we're trying to help this person and this person, you know, as we've now we did chapter one and chapter two of this person. Here's the story, here's what it looks like, here's how difficult it is. And you know, the person wasn't as receptive to help per se that we would have liked or and still in the same deal. So now we're going to look at this difficult word in that, which is this word of help. Okay. So in that and you go, that's not difficult word, you know, but we're going to look at how can it be a complicated word and what does help really mean as it pertains to others. So to kind of look at that and to go, in some of my actions, am I helping or am I actually possibly hurting? Am I helping or am I actually possibly enabling somebody to continue to do the same things that they are doing that are not life abundantly. We're not claiming to be an expert on help or good or any of that such don't claim to have all the answers. We're just going to look at that because it's complicated to look at what true help is for somebody you care about and what hurt can look like. So we got Nancy here today. She's freezing to death. Yeah.
- [03:19]
B
Odd for me, but yes. Usually hot.
- [03:22]
A
Yeah. So we don't have four fans going and the air conditioner on 52. It is cold. Isaac's at the soundboard and he's not cuddled up, but he's got his arms in his. It's cold in this room. It's legit cold in here. So that's where we're at today. So starting off okay out there. So I'd ask everybody in your head, if you're listening to this, just define in yourself, in your head, what does help and help for others mean to you? If you heard that word, what would you say and how would you define it? So Nancy happens to be sitting next to me. So, Nancy, tell me, if I said help and help somebody, what does that initially come to your mind and what does it mean?
- [04:05]
B
I think in the purest sense of the word, it's improving someone's circumstances to the best of our ability. That would be helping.
- [04:14]
A
Okay, and tell me what that means.
- [04:17]
B
It would mean different things depending on the circumstances of that person. But it could be, if they're hungry, feed them.
- [04:28]
A
Okay.
- [04:29]
B
Improving that circumstance of hunger. If they're cold, provide them with a heater.
- [04:36]
A
That was a pointed jab at the person in charge of the room. Me.
- [04:41]
B
That would be improving their circumstances?
- [04:43]
A
Yes.
- [04:46]
B
I think it really. And that, I think, is where it kind of gets a little fuzzy. Is figuring out what an improvement of circumstances really means fair and also the intention of improving the circumstances? Because I think sometimes we can look at a situation and think, I need to do this, that, or the other thing for this person, because I know better than them what is going to improve their circumstances or what I think they need more than what they think they need. And so therefore, I'm going to be the determiner of what level of help they get and how much help they get. And that can be very ego driven.
- [05:35]
A
Okay.
- [05:36]
B
And it can also be driven by a feeling that you need to make yourself feel better in this situation. And so therefore, you do something just to. Just to, you know, make yourself feel good, not necessarily for the ultimate goal of changing someone's circumstances or improving their circumstances, but making yourself feel better about it.
- [06:07]
A
Okay, so then in your first sentences, we got about five different launching off points that we could jump into. And then instead of doing the logical thing, which would be to start looking at those, we're going to do also in this, before we even break down some of the stuff, because there's a lot in that, you know, that there's questions of sometimes we just help to make ourselves feel good. There's many people out there that say that people they Just help. Because it fills this need inside of them.
- [06:41]
B
Yeah.
- [06:42]
A
It really has nothing to do with the other person there. So it's manifesting this feeling inside of them. Go. We may go down that rabbit trail and to look at that. Is there truly any altruistic, just straight help for the sake of helping?
- [06:58]
B
Yeah.
- [06:59]
A
Okay. I don't know. That's a whole other discussion. So then before we go down that I need to hear we're going to define. Because it's going to kind of put the lanes that we're at. You kind of defined help and why we do that. So then let's put a definition in this of give me what it would look like when helping could actually be hurting somebody. What would that be?
- [07:23]
B
A great example, especially this time of year, is giving money to panhandlers, people who are on the street corner asking for money. Nine times out of ten, and this is not Nancy's theory, this is proven fact, nine times out of 10, those folks are making anywhere from three to $500 a day. Fair panhandling.
- [07:52]
A
I wonder if they're taking applications right now.
- [07:56]
B
I know, right? They. But it feels good for you to dig into your wallet and hand them some money. You know, they stand there, they look really sad, and they. They act like they're, you know, they're really in need. And so you. You give them the money, you feel good about yourself, you drive away and you imagine them, you know, taking it home or buying, you know, diapers for the kids or doing something really awesome with it. But in reality, you are funding really bad activities that include drug use, prostitution, you know, really, really bad, bad life choices. That is hurting. Ultimately, that is not helping. You may feel good about it in the moment, and it may seem like you're doing the right thing, but nine times out of 10, that is. That is funding really, really bad, bad life choices.
- [09:01]
A
Yeah. And then the logic people would use. So then I would give you. So, Nancy, they would say, I can just help what they do with my help. That is their choice. As an adult, they have every right. I give the money, which my intent was, I give the $20 to this person over there. And. Because that would get them a meal and get a jacket at Target. And what they do with it is not my place to say. What would you say in response to that?
- [09:32]
B
I would just say, as a parent, and maybe not all of the people listening to this are parents, but as a parent, would you apply that same logic to your children?
- [09:42]
A
Okay.
- [09:43]
B
Like, would you say, I'm going to give this $20 bill to my teenage child and what they do with it is their business. It's none of my business. And you wouldn't have any sort of culpability in that if they were to take that and. And use it, or would you? Even, you know, looking at it from the perspective of this is a complete stranger on the street. What if they took that $20 that you gave them and they bought that last hit of whatever it is that they use, their drug of choice, and it ultimately was the one that killed them. It was the one that was laced with.
- [10:23]
A
Ferrum. Yeah.
- [10:24]
B
And that was it for them. Like, where is your culpability in that?
- [10:28]
A
Here's an interesting. This is a fact, because it is me, okay? Not that I speak fact. That's the point. This is just fact. I can tell you this because it's truth, because it's relevant to me. I am here in a world of unhoused homeless people seven days a week, every day, every day, all the time. Come in contact with hundreds of people. Been doing this for seven days a week for years now. Three, four years. Okay? So just do the math. Say I'll run into 300 people a day, not different people every day, but 2, 300 people a day that are homeless, that are in short of finances and such like that. Do that 365 days a year. Whatever. That's a lot of people. Interesting tidbit. You know how many people have asked me for money in all of this time?
- [11:27]
B
I would guess zero.
- [11:28]
A
Pretty close to zero. Pretty close to zero. Okay. They don't. And always if they did, and in other places, I've given the response, if this $10 is really going to help you get to where you would like to get and help you along the way, I'll gladly give it to you. And usually the discussion ends there.
- [11:57]
B
Yeah.
- [11:57]
A
Now, okay, again, it's interesting to me that, you know, I'm in this world. The people that are on the corners, okay? A lot of them, I'm in this world here in Temple, okay? So I know this world, okay? We provide here. I'm not. We're not the end with all. I'm not claiming that we are everything okay at all. But here, at this moment, if somebody wanted to go home to be with their family for Christmas, pretty much wherever they are, we'll get them a ticket there. Yeah, solved. Somebody needs clothes, they come here, we get them closed. Somebody needs something to eat, they got it. They need an id. They got it.
- [12:41]
B
Yeah.
- [12:41]
A
Any of these things that might. Would Take financial resources. They could get here. Okay. Period. The people that I see here in temple, that's all my point of reference. I know. I don't know anything else other than this little world. The people that I see in our world, they would call it flashing sign, which means you hold up the cardboard sign, we'll work for food. Okay. There's one group that does it in downtown temple, and they're going towards the. The approach of. They think it's kind of funny. And they got a sign that says, hey, let's be honest. I just want beer.
- [13:19]
B
Yeah.
- [13:20]
A
Okay. So they're going with that approach to it, and people give to that. I appreciate you being honest. Okay, here you go. And they give to that, and then that's. They are at least valid in what they do and that they will take. They know it's whatever, $2.80 to go to SEFCO to get one 40 ounce of beer. They. Their life is about $2.80 at. Okay. And so they do that. I don't see them here very often at all getting any services. I know. I mean, we know them by name.
- [13:55]
B
Yeah.
- [13:55]
A
They're not here getting any of the things that could really move them forward. Food included in that list.
- [14:02]
B
Yeah.
- [14:03]
A
Okay. That's your choice. The other group is on. Further away from where we're at, outside of town, out near the loop. So you get a lot of passing traffic out there. Okay. Those people, they've been out there for a long time. Very regular. Okay. I run a homeless. I've never met one of them. I met them there. I meet them. I speak to them. Hey, could I give you a ride over here? Here's what we could provide. We can give you all. Looking for a job. Come to the resource office. We can sit down on the computer. We can find a job. You need something to eat, I will bring you here. We got boxes of food. I will take you here. Not once have I been taken up on that offer.
- [14:46]
B
Yeah.
- [14:48]
A
Nor do they come here.
- [14:50]
B
Yeah. I've had one experience with a lady in the parking lot of the Walmart that had a sign, you know, please help. My kids are hungry at home. And I said, I will go in and pick up some groceries for you and bring them. What ages are your children? Do you need any specifics? And she said, yeah, I need diapers and I need formula, and I need, you know, just some, you know, bread and baloney, you know, that kind of stuff. So I went in and bought a bunch of groceries for her. Came back out. She was Nowhere to be found. Completely gone.
- [15:32]
A
She wanted the cash.
- [15:33]
B
She wanted the cash.
- [15:35]
A
Yeah. So here, everybody out there, we're not beating this up, and we're going to move on. Okay? So not at all. I'm not claiming. And you may be in another camp going, man, I want to give them all the money I can. Great. You know, I've. I mean, I've met a guy that. He danced on the street corners. Everybody here in Temple knows him, and somebody out of the benevolence of their heart, gave him a car because they thought he needed a car. He got a car. Yeah, he got a car.
- [16:03]
B
He's a good dancer.
- [16:04]
A
Good dancer. Was like, he's getting beat up now, like. And, like, he's getting old. But I'm not saying that action was wrong. It did help him. Like, they. They gave him the tools. Okay, I'm not claiming to be the expert on this, but I am saying it is an interesting tidbit to me if just handing away money, if that was the solution to help people move along and they truly believe that, if so, wouldn't I be asked for money all the time?
- [16:34]
B
Yeah.
- [16:36]
A
I don't. I don't. And so that's an interesting tidbit to me. And if I ask the question if it's truly going to help if the guys with the I'm just doing it for beer, they know that not $5 is sitting on the table for them. They have a big, big, big scholarship waiting for them to go to any substance use treatment facility they want in a place to live for the next year.
- [17:03]
B
Yeah.
- [17:04]
A
Free. We will work on housing for them to get into a place to stay after they're clean and sober. We will find them a job. We will do these things. Okay. Way more than $5. Okay. Way more than $5. Mm. Won't take me up on. I get it. It's. Anybody has a right to choose when they go into treatment or not treatment. And I get all of that stuff. Okay. Even that group. I know highly intelligent people. They're very smart. Okay. They won't ask me for $2 and 80 cents.
- [17:43]
B
Yeah.
- [17:45]
A
Okay, I get it. So then you would look at that and go. And that possibly is not necessarily helping them move forward. Not that it's my place to tell everybody what forward is, but I think it'd be fair to say, it'd be decent to say I'm enabling them to stay in a place that is not truly the life that they're called to live.
- [18:10]
B
Yeah. I think it's worth noting at this point in the conversation that people who are living outside unhoused have a 10 year life, less lifespan than normal.
- [18:28]
A
It's brutal.
- [18:29]
B
It takes years off of your life. It is not healthy to live outside. Just not. There are a lot of factors that play into that, of course. You know, lack of health care, lack of proper nutrition, lack of sleep, lack of hydration, not to mention the exposure to some of the activities that are, that are out there that people use to cope with those situations. But it is not. I have had conversations with folks that are sort of adjacent to this, this industry and you know, they have said that's none of our business. If they want to live outside, you know, they can. They're welcome to do that. They. We should support them in their life choices. And it's. None of that isn't something that we should be concerned about. We shouldn't. We shouldn't. We should give and not be concerned about what happens.
- [19:30]
A
And that's, that's logic. And I can't say that I have not. I might have been in that camp at chapters of my life. You know, I have at times you're like, oh man, the dude catches you with the eyes and you're like, oh man, I'm not going to not help this dude because he looked at me, you know, and it feels so wrong. Yeah. It's like you go, no, man, we caught our cause. Like, oh gosh. And then you're like, it feels so wrong to look away.
- [20:05]
B
Yeah.
- [20:06]
A
Because $5 I have, you know, but like you said there in that, let's say if I know my son or daughter. What. I'm not going to pick on either one of them or whatever. But if I know they're having an addiction struggle. But I don't know, this is a stranger. But like in that I'd go, man, if I truly care about my son or daughter, I don't set them up in positions that truly bring them harm.
- [20:35]
B
Yes.
- [20:35]
A
Like if I go, like, terrible example. But you know, my daughter's got a terrible. She doesn't. But if she happened to have a terrible boyfriend or something. And hey, you know, I know your boyfriend beats you up and such like that. Good news, I got you a hotel room for the weekend that y' all can go stay at.
- [20:57]
B
Yeah.
- [20:58]
A
Wouldn't do it. Like, you go, that's absurd.
- [21:01]
B
Yeah.
- [21:02]
A
You just set her up for an absolutely possible terrible thing to occur. Let's pretend my son is. I know that he's struggling. He's not. Okay, so. But struggling with addiction or such like that. Hey, Billy Joe. Or whatever I made to them, Billy Joe, hey, here's 50 bucks. You're an adult. Go do with it as you would like. See you.
- [21:36]
B
Yeah.
- [21:37]
A
And then so in it, and we go, I'm not their parents, and I'm not their this or that. So the question is, we would acknowledge. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if I did that for my daughter. Okay. If I look myself in the mirror, there's no way that I possibly myself. All I can answer for is me. There's no way that I could justify and go, whoo. I did right by her today. I gave her 50 bucks to go stay with an abusive boyfriend in a hotel, man. Okay, Now I can chill out this weekend because I feel better because that's what she said she wanted. So I gave her what she wanted. So she's happy with me, but I know that I didn't put her in a position to succeed or I couldn't look myself in the eye and go, whoo. I know Josh has been. Or Billy Joe, whatever. Okay. Has been struggling with this addiction. Struggle, man. At least I can relax this weekend because he asked for 50 bucks, and I gave him 50 bucks, and he's gone. I know I did, right? No, no, no. Okay, so then the question that we come to and then we started and we're going to go to and maybe not even unpack all the stuff you had in your intro is this recognition that possibly some help is not truly help helping a person, but is putting them possibly in situations that could actually bring them hurt. And some of the motivation behind that possibly is not truly straight benevolence. It is selfishness in that. I just don't want to feel guilty.
- [23:26]
B
Yeah.
- [23:28]
A
Like, so me, if somebody sees a homeless person on the side of the road, they got a sign that says, man hungry, Give me five bucks and I'll be happy. And you do that, and you have at least invested in the homeless issue, and you can least look all your friends in the eye. I care about it, you know, I help people that are homeless. Yeah, you did it for you.
- [23:50]
B
I can even use my. I'll put it. I'll put myself out there and throw.
- [23:54]
A
Myself under the bus because she's freezing cold right now.
- [23:59]
B
There have been instances where I have been faced with decisions of, do I put this person in a hotel for the weekend or do I not and just sort of let them fend for themselves? And I've. I've come to you for sage advice, and invariably you'll say, what is the, what's the end game? Like, where are you going to go with this on Monday? Like if there's sure be something for them to be in a hotel room for the next few nights, but then what after that? And it really always boils down to you saying, Nancy, if you put them in, you're really doing it just so that you'll feel good for the weekend and won't worry about them. That's, that's really what it boils down to. This would be an investment in your own personal feeling of like, you know.
- [25:02]
A
And that's not necessarily bad. Just accept the reality of what.
- [25:05]
B
Yeah.
- [25:06]
A
And they're in a hotel room. Great.
- [25:07]
B
Yeah.
- [25:08]
A
And they're, they're 38 years old. They've had 38 years of surviving on their own. Okay. But you do this because they're now into your picture and we know in this world that guess what is going to occur Monday? There's going to be two others.
- [25:27]
B
Yeah.
- [25:27]
A
That are going to take the place of that one and you forget about that one and you're like, whoo, help that one. You got them two nights in a hotel.
- [25:35]
B
Yeah.
- [25:36]
A
With no plan. And then the hotels that we can afford. No offense, but this is my. Not Nancy's and ready. I'm not claiming because like this very difficult. Because I know the young lady we're talking about. Very difficult. The real solution, let's just go ahead and put it out there. Listen to nothing else. The real solution is you must have good, permanent solutions for people.
- [26:05]
B
Yes.
- [26:06]
A
Okay. Period. We just say that you must have good permanent solutions for people, whether they take advantage of them or not. That's their business.
- [26:17]
B
Yeah.
- [26:17]
A
But you must have these options so you're not left to make these decisions going, okay, sleep in the bushes or drug infested meth hotel for the night. Yeah, okay. Tough, tough. And then in it, it is difficult. Should be as human beings with a conscience and a moral compass with inside of us to know that possibly here theological question, possibly God has put some people that cross your path. Boom, this person's crossed your path and you turn them away. Then you got these little things in the Bible like this, the Good Samaritan story. Okay. These little tidbits here that you can head off to this direction going. That guy didn't ask any questions.
- [27:17]
B
Yeah.
- [27:19]
A
Okay. What did he do, though? Okay, what did he do? We forget a little bit in that story. In that we go, oh, see, that guy helped. And he did. I'm not taking. He did it Right. And what else did he do? He said, and whatever else he needs to get him well and he can get on his way. Yeah, I'll pay for it.
- [27:43]
B
There was an end game.
- [27:44]
A
There was an end game. He didn't just say, hey, this guy had a rough weekend. Okay. Put him up for a night. He put him up. He took him there and he says, whatever else he needs, I'm coming back. And whenever he owes to get him well and get him where he can get on his way. I got it.
- [28:03]
B
Yeah.
- [28:05]
A
Different.
- [28:06]
B
Different.
- [28:06]
A
Very different.
- [28:07]
B
Yes.
- [28:09]
A
Okay. Very different. Okay. So we would look at this one of my pet peeves, like we lose sight in that story. Okay. I agree. The priest that walked by, the Good Samaritan that wouldn't go over and touch him because he wanted to be unclean. Wrong. There's no way you can justify that action. Sure is right. Okay. The one that was worried about his own well being and see somebody in need. I can understand the logic in that. You know, safety is a concern. Okay. But you probably at the end of the day go, that's not right either.
- [28:44]
B
Yeah.
- [28:46]
A
If the Samaritan just would have said, hey, dude, looks like you had a rough time. Here's 20 bucks. Good luck. Is that right? No, no, no, no. He took him to the place and said, I'm paying for all of this and whatever else he needs because we want to get him well.
- [29:13]
B
Yeah.
- [29:14]
A
Way different so than mine. I've always still do. And I'm not saying I'm right. Whatever. And you like, I would. Well, I know like the people who would disagree with me on this, they're not listening to this far in the podcast. She ain't gonna make. Well, maybe she's trying to find. Whatever. But so whatever. But we go. I've always had a point of contention like here we had somebody was going to go off to rehab. Going to go to rehab. We can get. And that's a good thing. Good thing. And he said, I want another night to think about it. And somebody put him in. In our little town, there's a place called the Eagle Inn that is absolutely known. It is. Whatever, 20 rooms, 21 rooms.
- [30:08]
B
Something like that.
- [30:08]
A
Something like that. And it is loaded with prostitution and drugs.
- [30:15]
B
Yeah.
- [30:16]
A
Period. And. But it's pretty cheap. 50 bucks, 45. Something like that.
- [30:22]
B
And I think way too expensive for the quality. Whoa. 100 accommodations.
- [30:26]
A
But way too. Yeah. You know, bedbugs included and all this and that, you know, but so we. We decide he doesn't want to go to rehab for that Day. So we need a place for him to stay because that's good. Even though the rehab would have taken him that day. Okay. We pay for a hotel room for him to go stay at the Eagle Inn the night before he's supposed to go to rehab. How's that helping?
- [30:50]
B
Not.
- [30:51]
A
I can't tell you. I've lost count of the number of times that somebody comes in with this sob story or that sob story or different places. And we give them a hotel room for a day, two, three, four, with no plan, no intention, no nothing. And day three comes up and they can't figure out why day four, five, six and seven aren't coming. And always these stories end pretty much in the same place over and over and over without a plan. These people are now upset going, why can't you help me now? Yeah, you got me two nights. I need a week. I still don't have anywhere to go. And they're back out on the street. Yeah. They got a shower. Yeah. They got a warm bed. Okay. Not going to argue that no thought or plan of where this person can go or what are the next steps for them now with it. Have you and I and others have. We put people in a hotel because we have no place for them to go in temple. Okay. But maybe they're getting into family promise or another organization and there's not going to be a spot open for them for a week.
- [32:07]
B
Yeah.
- [32:08]
A
You get a hotel for that person.
- [32:09]
B
Absolutely.
- [32:10]
A
At a decent. As decent as we can get. Decently safe. You get them a hotel room and you pay that with open arms with children involved.
- [32:19]
B
100%.
- [32:20]
A
100% and mandatory. Figure out a plan of we can get them in here. Maybe they want to go back with family. But there's not a bus ticket for two days.
- [32:32]
B
Yeah.
- [32:33]
A
You get that person a hotel room for sure. End game. Endgame. Like of this chapter. That's not the end of their story. A plan.
- [32:43]
B
Yeah.
- [32:44]
A
This person is just. We don't buy the ticket going who now I can sleep. Okay. Like the young lady we talked about. She need. She's outside of what we could. She needs True, true mental health.
- [33:00]
B
Yes.
- [33:00]
A
Okay. There's not enough hotel rooms that are going to get her well.
- [33:05]
B
And I have on multiple occasions just put her in so I can sleep well.
- [33:12]
A
Agree.
- [33:13]
B
That is literally the only reason why.
- [33:16]
A
And, and so for, for the record on that one.
- [33:20]
B
Yeah.
- [33:20]
A
Okay. So then we're not holier than now. I spent $360 not too long ago to put her in for a week.
- [33:28]
B
Yeah.
- [33:29]
A
Simply because I'll be honest, I didn't want to hear Nancy whine. And I really didn't have it in me to go. It kills me to think about what could happen to her out on the street.
- [33:41]
B
Yeah.
- [33:43]
A
I will admit it wasn't a wrong thing to do for her, but when I get down to it, at the end of the day, I did it so Jeff didn't feel guilty, didn't help.
- [33:54]
B
Her, or have to listen to Nancy wine.
- [33:56]
A
I still got to do that, too. And I get that. And that's always going to be in this component of giving.
- [34:08]
B
Yeah.
- [34:09]
A
Okay. So even, like biblically, you can. Look, there's stuff that says, you know, I can do good things, but the motivation behind what you are doing can be more important than the action itself. You know, I can go do good, but if I'm doing it for the wrong reasons, I'm like, what is it? I'm a clanging cymbal or a drum. I'm nothing.
- [34:31]
B
Yeah.
- [34:32]
A
But I've done some good.
- [34:34]
B
Yeah.
- [34:35]
A
So that comes to this place here of we're not the end with all. It's just an acknowledging this fact right now. It's. It's a different mindset and it's not cruel. Is this true? Like the Good Samaritan approach? True help is taking somebody out of that situation. Okay. Last time I checked in that story, he didn't leave the dude there.
- [35:05]
B
Right.
- [35:06]
A
Bad place to be.
- [35:07]
B
Yeah.
- [35:08]
A
It was dangerous for him, things going to. And he was hurt. Didn't leave him there. Didn't give him 20 bucks there because he's like, oh, crud, I got a big sales call coming up and I don't want to feel. I want maybe whatever. I want some good karma coming my way. Oh, look, I helped this guy. Didn't leave him there with, here's some cash. Hey, there's some hotel. Go do some good, whatever, knowing I'll never see him again. And look what I can go home and. Oh, look, I'm going to tell you all this cool Christmas miracle I did. I gave God 20 bucks so it could get a hotel room. He saw the circumstance, realized, this isn't good. We got to find help. And he brought him to a place, and back then, the ends were a little bit different than they are now. Okay. And that there was much care that could be given there.
- [35:57]
B
Yeah.
- [35:57]
A
Okay. And he brought him there and then said the next sentence, and whatever else he needs, I'll pay for it. That's help. Okay. And so out of this, it's Easy to see. And there's so many opportunities and so many ways to give and to do this and to do that and not, not discouraging anybody. And if you're listening to this and you see somebody with a cardboard sign and you feel called to help them, then you help away. Okay. I'm just saying maybe we try kind of change our focus on what we are saying help really means take a bigger approach to it. Take a, a more concentrated effort of is this really helping? Is this really caring? I mean, I'm, I'm now, like it or not, evaluating so much of what we do. And always I have two sentences. One, we do everything because we believe people matter. And then the next sentence is to always evaluate on it. Is this truly helping this person?
- [37:21]
B
There's a great, I guess it's a sort of a mini course called Walking with Others that I took through the Texas Community Christian Community Development association conference. And they really focused on.
- [37:37]
A
That's still some swag out there. I was at my conference.
- [37:45]
B
They really talked about transactional giving rather than. As compared to relational giving. So when you, like, for instance, if you, if someone needs groceries, like they're, they're hungry, they, they need some food, you go over to their house doordash style and just drop off groceries and, you know, turn around and head out. That lands differently than having a conversation with them, building a relationship with them, finding out how they got into that situation. What are the factors that are impacting their, their economics as, as a family? And are there other resources available that could help them longer term that could really change the, the broader circumstances? Rather than just feeding them for the day or the week, you walk with them through that situation. You learn about their, their individual challenges and help navigate those and point them to resources. Connect them with other organizations in town. That could help, but you can only do that through relationship and conversation and not a transaction of just things, goods, you know, money, whatever.
- [39:06]
A
Well, I'm going to tell you this, like, this is not from a conference, but that sucks, Nancy, because that is way more effort. Oh yeah, like, I meant that sarcastic. Like far more difficult. I don't like that answer. Let me give 10 bucks. That's far easier.
- [39:32]
B
Yeah, we've been doing a lot of neighborhood outreach with my church, and it's really hard to get the congregation behind it because it's relational. Like, you literally have to go in and meet with people and talk with them. It's easier to get volunteers at church. They say, this is a, this isn't a Nancy thing. But this is just what the subject matter experts say. It's easier to get volunteers to dig a ditch in the middle of August than it is to sit down on someone's couch and talk to them for 15 minutes. And that's. Sadly, that's where we're at as a society. They want to just give and be done with it instead of taking on some sort of deeper conversation or relationship.
- [40:23]
A
And then I'm going to ask you this. Okay, so this puts you on the spot here because you can answer incorrectly. Okay. So that's an option. And I'm shivering. Like, let's make no doubt about that. Like, I am shivering at the moment trying not to look like a big baby here. So make no doubt about it. I just got a hoodie on. It's legit cold in here. Isaac did come in. We had the heater in this little one. We in theory took preparations, but it didn't work.
- [40:57]
B
Sounds good to dig a ditch in.
- [40:58]
A
The middle of August right now. Okay. But so in it, we'll kind of tie it back here and then we'll get on with it. Okay. If I said to Nancy Glover, I said, what's the number one need for the people that we are serving here? You would say the number one need, the thing that is lacking the most in the people that we are working with here. You would say, what?
- [41:23]
B
Community.
- [41:24]
A
But no, hold on. It's got to be money. Because the signs always say, give me money. No, it's what?
- [41:30]
B
Community.
- [41:31]
A
Community.
- [41:32]
B
Relationships.
- [41:33]
A
Relationship.
- [41:35]
B
Yeah.
- [41:36]
A
Community, relationship. The thing that we would say here, the number one thing. The number one thing.
- [41:44]
B
Yes.
- [41:45]
A
Is that. Okay. I would believe that with wholeheartedly serving food today, if. Okay, great. That's a good thing. We're not gonna stop. People need to eat. It's cold. You need calories. Okay. You need nutritional food. Not stopping that. Not even implying that. Okay. But if today we don't say a word to a person, give them the same food, and do nothing to nourish anything other than just that plate of food, we have not provided the thing that they truly need. Even put a dollar bill on the plate. Put a five dollar bill on the plate.
- [42:20]
B
Yeah.
- [42:21]
A
Okay, so we're going to serve food. And here's your $5 bill. Have we done what we need to do?
- [42:28]
B
No.
- [42:29]
A
Okay. That's the bottom line point of all this. Okay. Serve the food. Because that is a need. There's things that need to occur. People need groceries. I got texture. We're going to go deliver meals to people that are shut in These things need to occur. Okay? It's not solely enough if I just go, I wish, and we got one person we call or we're going to laugh at this, that I will go deliver food and we'll get chastised about what this or that I didn't do and that. Like, okay, I sometimes going, so hold on, just real quick. Or I don't call her, but I'm trying to see, I'm taking time out of my day to bring you the food every day. Nancy does it to come bring you to hear all the things that I'm doing wrong by you. Just making sure I'm the same page.
- [43:19]
B
In the house that you.
- [43:21]
A
In the house that we've got her, that we pay the rent for her, that she gets her utility bills paid for, that we make sure she's safe.
- [43:28]
B
The phone that we paid.
- [43:29]
A
The phone that we paid. Okay, so all of that little tidbit, yes, I'm sorry, I'm horrible. I'm sorry that I'm evil, that I know, I know that I'm rotten in hell and all this stuff. I got it. Sorry about that. Here's your pasta salad and I'm out of here. So I put so in it. I will say these meals that I deliver, if I just. The food is one thing. If I just drop it off at their porch, they still get the food. A knock on the hello, here's your food gone. Okay? They still ate. Even I did that with a five dollar bill on it. If I go take the food to the guys that have the sign that says, hey, we just want beer, okay, I just drop off their food to them, make sure they ate today. Okay? Not saying it's a wrong thing to do. That's not really helping them. No relational interactions. Yes and true ones. Okay, so like the guy who's got the sign on the corner, who, I don't know, what other relationship would I ever go to? Let's pretend I don't know Nancy. And I happen to see her, I don't know, get out of her car and I'm like, oh, look at Nancy. She needs help. And I go over and we've never met, and I'm going to proceed to tell you all the things that you need to do to make your life better. If y' all don't know Nancy, that ain't gonna go well. Okay, so ain't, nor would it go well for anybody.
- [45:01]
B
Right?
- [45:03]
A
So that's not what we're asking to see the guy with the sign. Hey, I want to tell you about, you need to get off of drugs, you need to do this, you need to do that. This is better. This is this, this is this, this is this. I'm going to tell you, you don't know the person. Right? I'm not saying that either. Okay, so what we're saying is the Good Samaritan guy, he didn't go, hey, you know why this happened? This bad street, you're stupid to be here. If you just wouldn't have come here, this wouldn't have happened. He didn't say that. He got him up, helped him, got him to real help. And then out of that, what's kind of cool is we don't know the guy's name. We don't know any more about the story other than he showed us. This is what help looks for. It wasn't, let's toss 10 bucks to him and say, good luck to you. He also didn't go up to him and say, I want to tell you, this is why it occurred to you, this is how you could get better. If you just live like me, none of this would have happened. Notice, look at me. Hey, look at me. I'm not beat up. Didn't happen to me. It's happening to you. So if you just listen to me, because I've got all the answers. Last time I checked, our lives are pretty screwed up too. Yeah, okay. No offense. Okay. So didn't happen that way. What he did was he took a personal interest into this person and cared about their individual well being as best they could. Right. Relational caring. Okay. And that's what we're kind of getting to in this point. Help whoever you want to help.
- [46:57]
B
But I think it's important though, to stress that it's if, if it's not your, if you don't feel called to, to relationship with folks that are in these situations, that is totally fine. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But be sure to give to organizations that, that could use that funding in a way that does create that relationship and help in the right way.
- [47:28]
A
Agreed.
- [47:30]
B
Just remember that there is, there is an opportunity for you to help. There is an opportunity for that relationship to be built, even if it's not with you personally. You can give to organizations like Feed My Sheep and rest assured that they are building those relationships. They are helping people in a profound way that isn't transactional. That is relational.
- [47:54]
A
Yeah. And like that, that is a good point. We're not saying don't give at all there. And again you go, some people, the homeless topic Is something they have a very soft spot in their heart for. And some people have a pretty callous place for that.
- [48:09]
B
And some are scared.
- [48:10]
A
Some are scared.
- [48:11]
B
And that's. That's dead reasonable.
- [48:14]
A
Reasonable, sure. Okay. But there's plenty of places to get even that place that has the super sad song with all the puppies come up on it. What is that? You can even give to that. You know, these horrible images of all the little puppy dogs and, oh, 17, 37 cents a day. Like, it worked. 30 less than a cup of coffee. You can save Fido over there from what in the world? Why in the world? But so all of that today, just to look, okay, because there's a lot of people out there, could really do a lot of help for a lot of other people.
- [49:01]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [49:02]
A
If we just had the two people listening to this. And now I lost one of them because she's gonna be all mad again. Talk about hotel rooms or whatever. So we're down to one visitor, like, so whatever. Okay. So I'm just kidding on that. But you know that.
- [49:22]
B
Imagine what we could do, though, with three or three to five hundred dollars a day that panhandlers are getting.
- [49:30]
A
Game changer.
- [49:31]
B
Game changer.
- [49:32]
A
Game changer.
- [49:32]
B
Game changer. And how many panhandlers are there in temple on any given day? I would say, I don't know, 20, 30, something like that. Do the math.
- [49:43]
A
I mean, no, agree, like here.
- [49:44]
B
A lot of money.
- [49:45]
A
Game changer. So, like, just to give perspective, let's pretend the dude over whatever. He has every right to get whatever. I'm not advocating for. If I got $200 a day that people that would normally give to the dude over there, we feed 175 people today. 175 people will eat.
- [50:09]
B
Yeah.
- [50:10]
A
Because of that. So then 175 times seven is what? Almost a thousand people. So if I got a week's worth of that, guys, that's almost a thousand people will eat this week. Tangible fact on what he now. Or. Or you can give it to the person and he goes and pays $60 to the Oasis Hotel and he buys $20 for whatever this. And some fast food. Either one. That's your choice. But I'm saying if you want to go, where could it go? And then out of all the meals, let's say a thousand meals. Nine, nine hundred, whatever. My math is 900. And you do that 52 times a year. That's 45,000 plus meals. And then every one of the meals will be served with an interaction of, hey, have you been down to the resource office today. They can get you a new id. They can get you a Social Security card, have you applied for the TBRA program because they get rent assistance can.
- [51:15]
B
Or even just a hug. I love you, and it's good to see you today.
- [51:20]
A
That's it. So that's tangible. And then let's just picture, like, let's say we got. I don't know what. Whatever we got. If the listeners that are listening for this, they want to take a personal interaction approach to help somebody. Maybe they're homeless, maybe they're not. Maybe they're this. But they take a personal interaction to help somebody. Okay. We've touched a ton of lives today in a deep, profound way. The Samaritan person on the side of the road was profoundly touched not just by the hotel room. He was profoundly touched by the person that cared for him, that really didn't have any reason to care for him.
- [52:02]
B
Yeah.
- [52:02]
A
I guarantee he told that story. I don't know him because I wasn't alive then. Okay. I guarantee the story was more focused on. I can't believe this guy helped me up and carried me to this place and he talked to me. He was so kind.
- [52:20]
B
Yeah.
- [52:21]
A
Not. The story was. And it was so awesome. He paid $62 for the hotel room and he never spoke to me.
- [52:30]
B
Yeah.
- [52:33]
A
No, no. So out of that, we did a whole lot of nothing. And there's a lot of stuff. But to. Look, giving is good. Relational. Giving is really good. Transactional. Giving is for the giver, not necessarily the receiver. Yes, it is for the giver. Okay. Not saying that's wrong. Whatever. I'm just. Just go ahead and call it what it is. Okay. And sometimes maybe that's needed. I've done it. I admit it. Okay. There's somebody stayed a hotel for a week, and all I did was made a hotel owner a little bit more.
- [53:12]
B
Money and let Nancy sleep for the weekend.
- [53:16]
A
Good point. That's worth 360 bucks right there. Okay. So I guarantee it. If we want nobody to sleep, put them in this room right here. Golly. So we hope everybody out there just look at this little jaunt into the helping and the transactional giving world and all this stuff. And then hopefully out of this, not saying you have to agree or don't agree. That's fine. Yeah, that's fine. Not claiming to be right. It's just a discussion. Because it is. Nancy and I have this discussion often, and it is now, at the end of the day, something that we will ask ourselves. Hundreds and hundreds and Hundreds of times this next year. Is this truly helping? Yeah, we must. We must. I have a moral obligation. I have people. The calendar is just starting to kick me in the rear end and drive me crazy. And that I have people that I now have known in this world that have been homeless 15 stinking years. We're 20, 25. We start in 2010. 15 years. Okay. I can't do anything for anybody that they don't want to do for themselves. But at some point, as a rational human being, it must cross my mind, and it does. Now, have I truly helped them in these last 15 years, allowing them to stay exactly where they are?
- [55:02]
B
Yeah.
- [55:04]
A
You know, and for me, I'm not claiming I know the answer and I get it. We're talking about human beings. Whatever. It's far easier for the little pets we talk about because we see them in a bad situation. And what do we do? We call the dog catcher. He comes and picks him up. It takes them to the dog pound and they get moved on to a new home. The dog doesn't make decisions for itself. We call James. James gets the dog. Dog goes to the pound. Somebody adopts the dog because they put it out on Facebook and it's in a new life. Pretty simple.
- [55:34]
B
Yeah.
- [55:35]
A
Humans are not that simple. Nope. Humans are not that simple. So I'm not claiming that, but I do find myself at some point, I'm have to be accountable for my actions and only mine. Okay. And to really look, if we desire to help, if that is truly what we're called to do, what does that truly mean? And to ask. Ask ourselves the tough questions over and over, is this really helping? And is this really showing care to this person? Okay. So all of that hope out there, we're going to wrap it up here because we have mild case of hypothermia setting in, and we hope you're having a good holiday season. If you're listening to this, it's not holiday season. If you're listening to it in March, how about pretend like it's Christmas right now and search out kindness and good that you could do today?
- [56:39]
B
Yes.
- [56:40]
A
Okay. And let's do that. If it's April, do the same thing. If it's June, do the same thing. Okay. And relational interactions is what we're looking for. That's how the world will be changed, Period. So appreciate it. Nancy, we're good to go on that. Yep. Okay. Thank you, Isaac.