Transcript

A (0:00)

Foreign. Hey, we want to welcome everybody to another edition of the collage podcast today. Hope you are having a great day. It is good to be here today. We have got Nancy in here and we are going to have a. We're just going to get straight into it. I'm not in the mood to play around today. So, like, we are just going to go straight into it. So first off, Nancy, how are you today?

B (0:49)

I'm great.

A (0:49)

Blah, blah, blah.

B (0:50)

How are you, Jeff?

A (0:51)

Oh, thank you for asking.

B (0:52)

I'm very wonderful.

A (0:52)

Okay, so. So we're going to actually get into it. So the discussion we're going to have today, it's going to start at a biblical story that Nancy has brought forth and she wants to go this direction. And then we're looking at today a little bit of a continuation of what we've been talking about. Like sort of. We look back and whether you heard it or not doesn't matter. We're looking back at Brian and some of the discussions we had there about really the business we are in is. Hold on. Nancy's got something to do here.

B (1:36)

No, I'm looking up the scripture so that I can read it to people because they may not be familiar with the story.

A (1:43)

They're not familiar with the story. I promise you that, because it's in the Old Testament. Well, no offense if you are, but we're going to look at how help looks and kind of along the lines. What Brian Hawkins brought up is how sometimes we think help should look a certain way and then go along the lines of we're really dealing in a world of limited resource. And then if you're trying to pour help where it is not wanted, or they do not believe it is needed, or it is not in the form that they desire, that you're spinning your wheels. So that's kind of the topic that we're going to get at today. You can kind of see that we are not in a rut. But these are complicated deals. There's a huge topics to discuss in so many different levels about helping others and what does it look like and does there come a point in time that you're like, I'm not helping anymore? Okay, so give us, Nancy, the biblical principle that we are starting with and where we're going from. From here. Yeah.

B (3:05)

Okay, so the story that we're pondering Today is from Second Kings, chapter 5, verses 1 through 15, and I'll just read it real quick. Now, Naaman was commander of the army of the king of Aram. He was a great man. In the sight of his master and highly regarded, because through him the Lord had given victory to Aram. He was a valiant soldier, but he had leprosy. Now bands of raiders from Aram had gone out and had taken captive a young girl from Israel. She served Naaman's wife. She said to her mistress, if only my master would see the prophet who is in Samaria, he would cure him of his leprosy. Naaman went to his master and told him what the girl from Israel had said. By all means go. The king of Aram replied, I will send a letter to the king of Israel. So Naaman left, taking with him 10 talents of silver, 6,000 shekels of gold, and 10 sets of clothing. The letter that he took to the king of Israel read, with this letter I am sending my servant Naaman to you so that you may cure him of his leprosy. As soon as the king of Israel read the letter, he tore his robes and said, am I God? Can I kill and bring back to life? Why does this fellow send someone to me to be cured of his leprosy? See, now he is trying to pick a quarrel with me. When Elisha, the man of God, heard that the king of Israel had torn his robes, he sent this message, why have you torn your robes? Have the man come to me, and he will know that there is a prophet in Israel. So Naaman went with his horses and chariots and stopped at the door of Elisha's house. Elisheva. Elisha sent a messenger to say to him, go wash yourself seven times in the Jordan, and your flesh will be restored, and you will be cleansed. But Naaman went away angry and said, I thought that he would surely come out to me and stand and call on the name of the Lord, his God, wave his hand over the spot and cure me of my leprosy. Are not Abana and Farper the rivers of Damascus better than all of the waters of Israel? Couldn't I wash in them and be cleansed? So he turned and went off in a rage. Naaman's servants went to him and said, my father, if the prophet had told you to do something great, would you not have done it? How much more then, when he tells you, wash and be cleansed? So he went down and dipped himself in the Jordan seven times as the man of God had told him, and his flesh was restored and became clean like that of a young boy. Then Naaman and all of his attendants went back to the man of God. He stood before him and said, now I know that there is no God in all the world except in Israel. Please accept a gift from your servant. So from that, I think we can pull several things to ponder. Okay, first of all, the. The fact that he got mad when Alicia didn't come out and talk to him. Like, he, he showed up and he was expecting things to happen in a certain way, and it didn't happen that way. He was just sent a message by some other guy. Didn't even have the. The, I guess, the honor of having someone actually come and talk to him. But he's. He got this message to go and do this simple t. And it didn't meet with his expectations of what he thought was going to cure him. Right. So I think for us, when we look at something like that, we. There. The. The answer is some sometimes so simple that it almost seems too simple. So was listening to the podcast with you and Brian Hawkins that y' all did, which was released yesterday, which is really great. And if the people who are listening to this haven't listened to that one, you need to go back and listen to it and then listen to this one. But one of the things that Brian was saying was that we can only help someone as much as they want to be helped.

Summary

The Collage Podcast

Episode: Support Systems: The Backbone of Recovery

Host: Feed My Sheep

Guest: Nancy

Date: March 15, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the complexities of helping others in their recovery journey, examining how support systems act as the backbone of true healing. Using the biblical story of Naaman and his experience with leprosy as a metaphor, the conversation explores the nuances of offering and receiving help, how expectations and trauma shape responses, and the vital but often overlooked role of community support. The episode also challenges service providers to consider whether their efforts genuinely foster healing or merely perpetuate the status quo.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: The Problem of Help and Healing

Timestamps: 00:52–03:05

The host introduces the ongoing discussion about how help is offered, received, and sometimes rejected if it doesn't match expectations.
Revisits a previous episode with Brian Hawkins: “We can only help someone as much as they want to be helped.” (Nancy, 07:45)
The conversation will use the story of Naaman from 2 Kings 5 as a metaphor for modern recovery and support systems.

2. Naaman’s Story: Expectations vs. Reality

Timestamps: 03:05–08:37

Nancy recounts the story of Naaman, a respected military leader with leprosy, who seeks healing from the prophet Elisha.
Naaman expects a grand gesture but is offered a simple solution—washing in the Jordan River seven times—which offends him.
”He wanted help, but in a certain way...he didn’t feel like it was being delivered in the way that he wanted it.” (Nancy, 07:55)
Key insight: “Sometimes the answer is so simple that it almost seems too simple.” (Nancy, 06:30)

3. Modern Parallels: Barriers to Receiving Help

Timestamps: 08:28–15:14

Discussion connects the biblical narrative to real-life experiences at Feed My Sheep, highlighting how people seeking help often leave when initial interactions aren’t what they expect.
Example: Clients upset about only speaking with a receptionist, not the “big boss,” and subsequently storming out, walking away from potential help.
“They were so close, but they just leave…that's how a lot of stories end here.” (Host, 13:50)
Emotional trauma and repeated rejection fuel sensitivity and defensive responses to help offered.

4. Pride, Trauma, and Support System Dynamics

Timestamps: 15:15–25:37

Analysis of Naaman’s prideful, trauma-informed reaction, drawing parallels with people who are “super sensitive” from repeated social rejection.
“He is so accustomed to being turned away.” (Host, 16:16)
Emphasizes that providers should not rescind offers of help after a poor initial response.
“The true healing offered did not get taken off the table because of his initial poor response.” (Host, 21:33)

5. The Critical Role of Support Systems

Timestamps: 24:34–32:23

Key moment: Naaman’s support system—his friends—convince him to accept the simple solution, providing the push he couldn’t muster alone.
“Somebody just needed to help him for a second to get out of his own way.” (Nancy, 29:30)
Lack of support often leads to people abandoning help and “storming out,” with no one to encourage a different perspective.
“So many times, people will get upset at different junctures, and then guess what? There is no support system for them to fall back on.” (Host, 32:16)

6. Complicating Factors: Damaging Peer Influence or Broken Support

Timestamps: 35:19–38:08

Reflection on how support systems might undermine healing—sometimes friends or peers give advice from their own dysfunction, functioning as a negative or enabling influence.
“They’re giving advice ... from a broken place that doesn’t lead to positive change.” (Nancy, 37:49)
Recognizing the complexity of participating in another’s recovery—simple solutions aren’t always easy in practice.

7. Agency, Dignity, and the Limits of Help

Timestamps: 46:03–54:43

Affirmation of personal agency: individuals have the right to refuse help, even when it’s in their best interest.
“He is now in charge of his own life as he should be. We all are.” (Host, 46:51)
Providing ongoing hope and options without enabling continued sickness: “Healing is still right there. Love to help you go to the river. I’m not the river, but I'd love to walk with you there.” (Host, 55:04)

8. Implications for Service Providers and Systems

Timestamps: 48:58–52:14

Commentary on how broader systems may inadvertently benefit from people remaining “sick” or dependent.
“If you’re in the leper business, you ain’t got a customer anymore (if healed).” (Host, 49:43)
Service models should aim for true healing, not just managing symptoms or sustaining participation.
“We should all as service agencies be all about going out of business.” (Nancy, 50:04)
Reiterate: agencies act best as companions along the healing journey, not as “miracle workers.”

9. Closing Reflections: Keeping Healing on the Table

Timestamps: 54:43–end

The offer of healing—practical, emotional, spiritual—should never be taken off the table, nor should it be forced.
“We had to be a support system that would encourage him... But at the end of the day, I can't jump in the river for him.” (Host, 59:55)
Success is leading people to real healing, not simply supporting them in stagnation or sickness.
Call for dignity and respect for choices, even when they lead to disappointing outcomes, but always with the door to healing open.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“[We] can only help someone as much as they want to be helped.” (Nancy, 07:45)
“He wanted help, but in a certain way...he didn’t feel like it was being delivered in the way that he wanted it.” (Nancy, 07:55)
“He is so accustomed to being turned away.” (Host, 16:16)
“Somebody just needed to help him for a second to get out of his own way.” (Nancy, 29:30)
“So many times, people will get upset at different junctures, and then guess what? There is no support system for them to fall back on.” (Host, 32:16)
“They’re giving advice ... from a broken place that doesn’t lead to positive change.” (Nancy, 37:49)
“We should all as service agencies be all about going out of business.” (Nancy, 50:04)
“Healing is still right there. Love to help you go to the river. I’m not the river, but I'd love to walk with you there.” (Host, 55:04)
“We had to be a support system that would encourage him... But at the end of the day, I can't jump in the river for him.” (Host, 59:55)

Segment Timestamps Overview

Biblical Story Introduction & Reading: 03:05–07:50
Application to Modern Help-Seeking: 13:50–17:00
Prideful & Trauma-Informed Reactions: 15:14–21:34
Role of Support Systems: 24:34–32:23
Broken or Enabling Support Structures: 35:19–38:08
Individual Agency and Support: 46:03–54:43
Systems and True Healing: 48:58–52:14
Closing Summary & Takeaways: 54:43–end

Episode Tone & Style

The episode maintains a candid, conversational, and compassionate tone, mixing personal anecdotes and practical examples with spiritual insights. The hosts offer deep empathy for people struggling with trauma, addiction, or homelessness while challenging listeners—and themselves—to always keep healing and dignity at the center of their work.

Summary Takeaway

Support systems—genuine, healthy relationships—are essential for recovery and restoration. Providers and communities must strike a careful balance: offering consistent, dignified support and hope for healing without enabling stagnation, always empowering the individual as the agent of their own change. The real challenge is not only to keep help on the table, but to create environments where true transformation is possible, always anchored in respect and hope.