The Essence of Leadership: A Community Perspective

Summary

The Collage Podcast: Episode Summary Title: The Essence of Leadership: A Community Perspective
Host: Feed My Sheep
Release Date: May 11, 2025

---

Introduction and Context

In this heartfelt episode of The Collage Podcast, produced by Feed My Sheep in Temple, Texas, host Jeff engages in a profound conversation with three esteemed guests—Bryn Myers, Heather Bates, and Natalie McAdams—to explore the multifaceted nature of leadership within the community. The discussion is anchored in the belief that every individual matters, highlighting the intrinsic worth and dignity of each person.

---

Guest Introductions

Bryn Myers (00:02:37): Bryn, the City Manager of Temple, shares her journey from Killeen to Temple, emphasizing her long-term commitment and fulfillment in her role. She reflects on the importance of leadership in public service and her dedication to her community.

Heather Bates (00:05:26): Heather, the Director of Communications, Tourism, and Events, introduces herself and highlights her recent contributions, including organizing over 40 lunch boxes for the community. Her role underscores the significance of effective communication in leadership.

Natalie McAdams (00:06:50): Natalie, the Director of Libraries and Museums, announces her departure from Temple to pursue opportunities elsewhere. Her contributions to the Temple Public Library and the Railroad Heritage Museum are lauded by her peers, illustrating the impact of dedicated leadership.

---

Defining Leadership

The conversation delves into the essence of leadership, with each guest providing their unique perspectives:

Natalie McAdams (09:37): "Leadership is a role that you typically are forced to fulfill because you are seeing that no one else is doing it. So it's a calling that people have to not only pave a way for others to be able to do something, but also to pull them through that, knowing that they have that capability."

Bryn Myers (10:31): "Leadership is casting a vision. So folks want to go with you where you're going and then helping to make that journey possible. So clearing hurdles, making sure that resources are available to accomplish, you know, get to the vision."

Heather Bates (05:45): Highlights the importance of communication in leadership, emphasizing her role in managing communications, tourism, and events to support the community effectively.

---

Requirements of Leadership

The discussion transitions to the essential qualities every leader should possess:

Jeff (13:23): Proposes that "good communication skills" are fundamental for leadership.

Bryn Myers (13:48): "If you don't have people following you, you're just going on a nice long walk by yourself. It is about being able to influence people and take people with you."

Natalie McAdams (15:05): "To be a good leader, you need to have empathy because you need to be able to understand that we are not at work in, in this microcosm, that there are things going on in our lives all the time that could affect where we are mentally, physically."

Heather Bates (13:30): Underscores the necessity of effective communication and people skills in leadership roles.

---

Good vs. Bad Leadership

Exploring the dichotomy between effective and ineffective leadership, the guests share their insights and personal experiences:

Bryn Myers (31:59): "When somebody cares way more about getting credit for something than that's a good one, than just doing than seeing the good thing get done, then you start having some really poor decisions being made in leadership."

Heather Bates (32:22): "Someone who can't communicate clearly and get people on board with them... it's not going to be fun."

Natalie McAdams (34:57): Reflects on a personal mistake where she prioritized tasks over her team's growth, emphasizing the importance of not being overly self-focused as a leader.

---

Personal Experiences and Anecdotes

The guests share poignant stories that illustrate the challenges and responsibilities inherent in leadership:

Jeff (19:16 - 21:55): Recounts a conversation with a General from Fort Hood, discussing the heavy burdens leaders bear, especially in high-stakes environments like the military. The General emphasizes the moral weight of decisions that can result in loss of life, highlighting the profound responsibility leaders hold.

Bryn Myers (27:57 - 29:51): Describes attending shift change briefings at the police department following a tragic event, witnessing the unwavering dedication of first responders. This experience underscores the selfless nature of true leadership.

Natalie McAdams (46:11 - 48:31): Shares her struggle in identifying great leaders due to their inherent flaws, ultimately highlighting the importance of grace and self-compassion in leadership roles.

---

Nature of Leadership: Born vs. Made

The conversation shifts to the debate on whether leaders are inherently born or developed through experience:

Bryn Myers (39:07): "It's a combination... you're born with some innate characteristics... but anyone is not born ready to lead with all the necessary skills. It has to be developed throughout life."

Heather Bates (40:39): Supports the idea of a combination, noting that personality traits are innate but leadership skills require continuous nurturing and growth.

Bryn Myers (42:35): "We are all leaders... it depends on the extent... sometimes I'm a leader in one area and not in another."

Jeff (43:19): Emphasizes that everyone leads in some capacity, regardless of their position, reinforcing the notion that leadership is a universal trait.

---

Sphere of Influence and Responsibility

The discussion highlights how leadership impacts various scales within the community and beyond:

Bryn Myers (43:47): "The more senior you get, the more responsibility you have for others. You don't really get to do what you just want to do."

Jeff (43:21): "Sphere of influence may be slightly different... but decisions in smaller spheres are just as important as those in larger ones."

Bryn Myers (44:10): Illustrates how small decisions can have far-reaching effects, akin to the butterfly effect, impacting individuals' lives in significant ways.

---

Concluding Insights

The episode wraps up with a reflection on the universal nature of leadership and its foundational principle:

Bryn Myers (54:31): Shares a metaphor about leading people to build a ship for an ocean journey, emphasizing the importance of casting a compelling vision rather than micromanaging the process.

Jeff (62:37): Concludes with a powerful statement: "If you are listening to this, you are a person. And then you must make the logical step to say you matter as well. It's that simple. And that is how a community changes."

Final Message: The episode reinforces the central belief that every individual plays a role in leading and shaping their community. By recognizing the inherent worth of each person and embracing the responsibilities of leadership, Temple continues to thrive and evolve.

---

Notable Quotes

• Bryn Myers (00:10:31): "Leadership is casting a vision. So folks want to go with you where you're going and then helping to make that journey possible."

• Natalie McAdams (00:09:37): "Leadership is a role that you typically are forced to fulfill because you are seeing that no one else is doing it."

• Jeff (19:16) [00:19:16]: "They must believe that I would never ask them to do something that I wouldn't do myself. And that the mission is bigger than them."

• Bryn Myers (31:59) [00:31:59]: "When somebody cares way more about getting credit for something than just doing and seeing the good thing get done, then you start having some really poor decisions being made in leadership."

• Jeff (62:37) [00:62:37]: "If you are listening to this, you are a person. And then you must make the logical step to say you matter as well. It's that simple. And that is how a community changes."

---

This episode of The Collage Podcast offers a deep and nuanced exploration of leadership, emphasizing empathy, vision, and the profound impact leaders have on their communities. Through personal stories and thoughtful discourse, Jeff and his guests illuminate the true essence of what it means to lead with integrity and purpose.

Transcript

[Jeff]

Foreign. Hey, we want to welcome everybody out there to another edition of the Collage Podcast. So for all of you out there that are familiar or not familiar, we are in a little town in the middle of central Texas. I say little. Been here a long time. I guess it's getting less and less little, but it's not as big as others. We're right in the central part of Texas, right off of I35 between, you know, right in between Dallas and Austin is our geographic location, specifically in that we are in a little place called Feed My Sheep in Temple, Texas. So we are in this location recording the Collage podcast. And I'm excited today because not do we just have one guest. We have three guests. And so we're just going to have a conversation. So there's a lot going on here that you all can't see. Nothing bad in the room. There's just a whole lot. There's just a whole lot of stuff. And we just found out one of the people in the podcast is leaving us. And we found out last night that one of the people we serve left in a whole other way. They're no longer living with us. And it's Sandra, somebody we've known for a lot of years that's been on the streets here in Temple. All I know since 2010, so a lot of years. A lot of years. So a lot of stuff going on when we're just going to have a conversation because we don't have the answers to everything, but just the basic premise that we always come back to here of this belief that people matter. They have worth, they have dignity. They matter. And so we're just going to talk about that and to see why that's such an arbitrary concept in this world that we live in now, because we seem to be steered towards this direction that nobody really matters other than the people that are important. They matter, but everybody else doesn't. Not true. Not true. And so we're just going to kind of go. So we'll go around the room, if you don't mind. Whatever you would like to introduce about yourself as much or as little. Your call. So we will just go. And whoever would like to start us. So we would say I'm terrible at this. How about Bren, you want to start us?

[Bryn Myers]

Thank you for having us.

[Jeff]

Thank you for being here.

[Bryn Myers]

I'm Bryn Myers. I am a lifelong resident of Bell County. Been living my childhood. I spent primarily in Killeen, the other side of our county here, which is where my dad was from. For those of you Guys who know Killeen, it's a military town. It's the host, the primary host of Fort what's now Fort Cavaso, so used to be Fort Hood. And my dad predated the military, which is. Or his family predated the military, which is a little bit unusual. Most people who are from Killeen have strong military ties. And then my mom was from Temple, so I spent the last almost 20 years living here in Temple. I came back home to work for the city and thought I'd be here for a few years. Wanted to be closer to my dad and family and thought I'd be able to be here for a few years before I had to go on for the next opportunity. And I've just been really lucky that the next opportunity has come here for me several times. And now I'm. I'm lucky enough to be my dream job here in the city of Temple, which is city manager. And I'm really, really have been blessed to be here for this long.

[Jeff]

Agreed. Agreed. And before we go, not cutting off. So really for all of y' all out there to hear, so Bryn and the leadership of Temple are here at Feed My Sheep. They're serving the meal to our community. That's what's occurring today. Okay. And so we're definitely not going to deviate off of that to look at what leadership truly means. And so like this, I would say wonderful, wonderful leadership exercise to come serve others. So great. So out of props to the leadership in temple that they're doing this and out of it. For all y' all to know there, if anybody's cynical, there's no media, there's no people. There will be no recognition of anything that's occurring other than group came and served. Okay. Really neat. So we're going to come back to that one on leadership because you can't not be talking to this group here and see what leadership means and the burdens that come with leading, the responsibilities that come with leading, the hurt that comes with having decisions that others will have ramifications for. The things you decide and never understood why you made that or why you were unable to make this leadership. It sucks. And it's a burden that few are willing to truly embrace. So. Okay.

[Heather Bates]

Well, thank you. Hi, everyone. I'm Heather Bates. I'm the city's director of new title. I'm hard launching on the podcast exclusive Director of Communications and marketing formally, but it's now Communications, tourism and events.

[Jeff]

Nice.

[Heather Bates]

So, yeah, thank you. So we're happy to be here. I'm Thankful to Bryn and her leadership and all the other leaders who are here today to serve. And we've already put together over 40 lunch boxes, and we had a full assembly line going. It was great.

[Jeff]

It did.

[Bryn Myers]

We tried to convince her to call her Department, Events, Tourism and Communications instead of Communications, Tourism and Events, so we could call her the et cetera department, but she didn't go for it, apparently.

[Jeff]

Why would you not?

[Heather Bates]

I don't know. I'm feeling like I should. There's a lot of pressure.

[Jeff]

I will. And then there's irony in this. So out of this group, the single person we had the most difficulty to come sit up here and talk is the communication director. I'm like, what in the world? Okay, so the communication definitely needs to be on the backside. So, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

[Heather Bates]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

We'll take a vote real quick. In this room. Do we think it should be, et cetera? We all vote aye. Aye.

[Heather Bates]

So, okay, fine. I'll change it. I'll submit the memo today.

[Jeff]

Well, it's nice to have you.

[Heather Bates]

Thank you.

[Natalie McAdams]

Hi, my name is Natalie McAdams, and I am the Director of Libraries and Museums for the City of Temple and Museum.

[Jeff]

Okay.

[Natalie McAdams]

Yeah, so that happened a little over. Oh, gosh, is it two. A year and a half ago? Something like that. And so I oversee the Temple Public Library and the Temple Railroad and Heritage Museum, and I've been here four years.

[Jeff]

Okay. And fresh on the podcast, what is the news?

[Natalie McAdams]

I am. I have accepted a job with another city. So this is actually my last week here in the city of Temple.

[Jeff]

Yeah.

[Bryn Myers]

Boo.

[Jeff]

Boo. We were given. Yeah, booed.

[Heather Bates]

Can we boo?

[Jeff]

Give it. Yeah, we just booed. Not you. But she has been an incredible asset to our town.

[Bryn Myers]

She really has. She really changed a lot about the library and really, really taken an already great place and program and really just done things I couldn't have even imagined when she started. So I'm not gonna cry, but we're.

[Jeff]

Definitely saying boo to San Marcos. Boo. San Marcos.

[Bryn Myers]

They're not better than us, you know.

[Natalie McAdams]

They never said they were.

[Jeff]

And I will tell you the difficult thing about Temple. You never get to leave. Isn't that correct? Like, you say this magical sentence. I said it in 1988. I'm never coming back to this town, ever. And I'm back.

[Heather Bates]

Like, I'm like, isn't there a name for those? Are they boomerangs?

[Bryn Myers]

Boomerangs.

[Jeff]

I think I thought I was going to go moron. Or, like, something like that would have been a word I would use. But. So, okay, so how about this launching point in this. Everybody out there, we've got our introductions. Out here, all of y' all are in positions of leadership, various forms. Okay, so all of us here. I am always intrigued. This is one that. The concept of leadership intrigues me to no end. Like it really does. And it's a word that gets thrown around all the time. So how about this? We go around the room. If I asked, you said, tell me, define what leadership means to you. So define the word leadership. What is leadership in the word definition? Librarians should knock this one out of the park. Ready?

[Natalie McAdams]

I mean, I read the Natural.

[Jeff]

Why did I just do that? Like, you're the only person that could have possibly read a book. Like, so what in the world? And I'm gonna be really proud on this because my son, he goes to the library.

[Natalie McAdams]

Oh, nice.

[Jeff]

Yeah. And, like, he did all his studying for the law exam and all this stuff. He'd always go to the library. And I'm like, nobody. Like, you're the only person there. Like. And he's like, his age. He loves it because it's quiet, and he goes and studies it. Okay, tell me the word definition of leadership. What is leadership, the definition to you?

[Natalie McAdams]

So this is not Merriam Webster, but leadership is a role that you typically are forced to fulfill because you are seeing that no one else is doing it. So it's a calling that people have to not only pave a way for others to be able to do something, but also to pull them through that, knowing that they have that capability. So you are both pushing and pulling and making a way for something to happen.

[Jeff]

Man, I'm glad I'm not following that one. Good luck. Tourism. Yeah, ditto. Says the communication person.

[Heather Bates]

No comment at this time.

[Jeff]

No comment. Yes. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

[Heather Bates]

Exactly.

[Jeff]

There you go. So agreed. Very different. Good. There were some big, big words that you had in your definition. We're going to look back. Bryn, tell me your definition.

[Bryn Myers]

I think it's similar to Natalie's. The way as you were asking the question, I was thinking about it. I think for me, leadership is casting a vision. So folks want to go with you where you're going and then helping to make that journey possible. So clearing hurdles, making sure that resources are available to accomplish, you know, get to the vision, get to the place that. That you're. You're going together. And, you know, I think as a leader, you have to make a difficult transition for some of us, it I found for Most people, it's difficult when you're. You're moving from, you know, what would be like an individual contributor role to where you're, you know, you're personally getting to do a lot of the work to a leadership role where you're really helping other people do what they do really well. And that's different words, but similar to Natalie, just casting a vision for where we're going and helping people get there.

[Heather Bates]

Can I just add something to that?

[Jeff]

Your terms over. Okay, so thank you.

[Bryn Myers]

Et cetera.

[Jeff]

I'm just kidding.

[Heather Bates]

Et cetera. That's all that's what I wanted to say. Et cetera, et cetera. No, so when you were asking the question, the word that popped into my mind was what these ladies, what these ladies have said. But what I would add is as a growing leader, if there's anybody listening who's kind of a newer leader, especially over large departments and lots of people and things like that that you have to work with. One of the things that I have found challenging as a new leader is what Bryn was talking about, about you go from doing the things to now you're directing the things and it's more people focused and then you're guiding them and helping them fulfill the vision. So that's really challenging as a new leader is I used to kind of be the go to person to say like, well, this is how you do that. This is how you do that. It was like, call Heather. Heather will know. And now I'm not really that person anymore. And it's hard to deal with the fact know how to do everything my team does. But that's okay because that's not my job anymore. My job is to inspire them and motivate them and grow them and lead them. So I wanted to add that. Thank you.

[Jeff]

Okay. I guess it's all right because you just did. No. Excellent. So this is intriguing. So then we're definitely going to stay on this topic. Okay. The one quick deal I'm going to say one word that would pop in your head if I say a requirement. A requirement all leaders must have is what? So ready? Tourism. Tell me A requirement that all leaders must have just pops in your head.

[Heather Bates]

You have to be good with people. You have to have people skills and you have to be able to communicate with them.

[Jeff]

I agree. Not there's nobody's going to have an answer. I'm going to go, nope, you're wrong. But it pops in here. You've got to be able to communicate with people. Leadership involves people. So you got to be able to communicate with them. Okay, so Bryn pops in your head requirement.

[Bryn Myers]

Well, before I answer that question, it just, it makes me think of a saying about leadership that, you know, if you don't, if you're, if you think you're a leader but nobody's following you, you're just going on a nice long walk by yourself. Right? So it is about being able to influence people and take people with you and help people to come along with you. Otherwise, you're just.

[Jeff]

You're just walking.

[Bryn Myers]

You're just on a walk, which is a nice thing to do.

[Jeff]

Nice thing, too.

[Bryn Myers]

Different than leadership.

[Jeff]

And we'll get onto that. But, like, that's my number one. If you just said, Jeff, what is leadership? You gotta have people following you. You're just walking. You're just walking. I mean, you can say you're a leader all you want. If nobody's following you, you're leading nothing. You lead nothing. At the end of the day. Okay, you could. Oh, I've got great communication skills. And, oh, I'm so good. I'm articulate. I'm this, I'm that, I'm this. Nobody's following you. You're not a leader. You know, some of the greatest leaders have not been the best communicators. Okay. People don't follow words. They follow heart. They follow consistency. They follow truth, they follow, follow something requirement.

[Natalie McAdams]

So I don't necessarily think this is required of all leaders because you can have bad leaders.

[Jeff]

Oh.

[Natalie McAdams]

But I think, interesting to be a good leader, you need to have empathy because you need to be able to understand that we are not at work in, in this microcosm, that there are things going on in our lives all the time that could affect where we are mentally, physically. And then also, you know, when you, when you can have that empathy for the people that you work with, they return that. Because you are going to need grace and empathy as well as a leader because you're going to make mistakes and you're going to have an off day and you're going to have to go and apologize. But if you haven't built up, you know, an atmosphere of empathy for each other and caring personally for each other, then you can't ask that from the people that you lead when you're having a hard time too.

[Jeff]

Double boo to San Marcos. Like double Buddha San Marcos.

[Heather Bates]

I was just saying she is so calming. Like, her voice.

[Jeff]

Agreed. I'm just like, talk some more.

[Heather Bates]

Like, please tell me I don't go.

[Jeff]

To apologize to somebody. No, say it ain't so agreed. And then you introduce like out of that great leader, empathetic, they got to feel. And one of my leadership deals that I just, I'll take to the grave. Leadership temple. I went through that little deal in temple. No offense, it was great. Great. Okay. Not necessarily where I understood about leadership. It was good. Okay. So no offense to that. I got the pure fluke of getting with the general. General Frog was his name at Fort Hood. At one time he and I got stuck at the back of the line as we went on this tour of Fort Hood and he and I, I don't know who he is. I don't understand all these different badges and stuff on people's jackets. Like I'm going, I don't know. He's got a bunch of them and he's old. He seems to be important of some sort. I don't know. So somehow at the end, we're both at the end of the line and we're proactively both trying to make sure that the other person goes last. Yeah, okay. Leaders eat last. Okay, that's number one. So he and I were both. And we kind of got. And he was like, yeah, you go ahead. And I'm like, oh, really? You go ahead. Oh, you go ahead. We played this game, ok? All of that we come to. And then I did end up going in front of him. He's like, no, he put the tray down and I went. Until we went together and we got stuck sitting together. Okay. And so then he introduced himself. Hey, I'm General So and so. And I'm like, ah, General's pretty big. I know that word. Okay, so then, so we're there. He stuck with me at a table. So I'm like, hey, I'd be amiss if I didn't ask you some questions I've been dying to ask somebody at Fort Hood in your position. Okay, ask away. So we start talking about leadership. I do like this stuff. And I said to this, I said to him, I said, I got to know. I got to know. You give orders that when people follow them, 18 year old young men will not come back alive. There'll be wives that will not have a father or a husband anymore, children that won't have a father because of something you've asked somebody to do. How do you do that? Okay. And he said, he said, well, I must believe with all my heart that what I'm asking them to sacrifice is worth the mission at hand. It's worth it, it's worth the cost that what's going to incur. And he said, you know, I do that. I must know that nobody would ask me to do something that was not worthy of that. Okay? And then on that same one, I said, then why does that person do what you ask them to do? Because they know full well, if you tell me to storm the beach, 18 year old men believe I'm going to be the one that makes it through. But they ain't always. They've watched their buddies die. Why do they do it? Why do they do the thing that you asked them to do, knowing I may die? And they go, because they must believe that the cause is greater than them. And they must believe that I would never ask them to do something that I wouldn't do myself. And that the mission is bigger than them.

[Bryn Myers]

They believe in the calling.

[Jeff]

That's it. And that there's something greater in this world that is worth dying for. And to find that you truly live, you know, great for that moment of, you know, William Wallace standing in front of all his guys in Braveheart, and they're about leaving, okay? And then, so then they're leaving and they go, you know, William Wallace, and if you haven't. But I love the movie. But he tells him, he said, hey, why do y' all leave? I'm not even gonna do Scottish stuff. Because that'd be. He said, why are you leaving? And one of the guys said, ah, I didn't come to fight for them. So they get more property. Go home, I'll live. And William Wallace says, I going home. You shall live. Stay, you may die. Yeah. He said, but would you not trade every day from this one to that to just have one chance to look your enemy in the eye and say, you may take my life, but you'll never take my freedom. There's things that are worth fighting for and dying for in this world that are bigger than us. And that guy said, you know what? A wood for this one opportunity. And so then out of that, back to the general, and then we'll get back to this, because I want to talk about bad leaders too, okay, General, I said to him, how do you handle it? Because some of our decisions, if you're an empathetic, good leader, the killer devastating like you go home. And you know that here in this world, okay, some of my decisions. Hey, sorry, but you don't have a place to stay tonight. I heard they're not arresting at the library in that area. Good luck. I've just told somebody good luck outside on the street. And I hope nothing bad Happens to you, you go home and you had to make a decision. There's no other choice. And there's nothing negative. It's just. And so I said, how do you sleep at night? To the general, knowing that there's a family that will never have a father again because they did what you asked them to do? He said, well, I don't sleep. He said, I don't sleep much at all. I feel the weight of all of my decisions often. And then just as a joke, and I'm not advocating this lifestyle, and he says, I drink a whole lot. Leadership. Who wants that?

[Bryn Myers]

Right.

[Jeff]

Who wants that? Okay. And so everybody wants power. Everybody wants authority. Everybody wants to have somebody. If I, I'm important, and when I say this, they all jump and do it. That's not leadership.

[Bryn Myers]

Yeah. I think if you're, if, if, if you're a good leader, to Natalie's point, one thing that you'll realize as you climb the ladder, if you will, as you get, you know, into a more and more senior position, is there may be kind of a logical thought process that, oh, that, that person, you know, gets to do whatever they want or they, they get to, you know, make the decision, all the decisions that they want to make. And, you know, it's a little bit. I found in my own life. It's. It's kind of the opposite. The more senior you get, the more responsibility you have for others. Well, being and there. And you don't really get to do what you just want to do. It just really doesn't work like that. And I think there's a misconception that, you know, if you're the, you're the boss, you just get to do what you want. And if you really are there for the right reasons and a true leader, you're doing things you probably don't want to do.

[Jeff]

Agree. In many cases, many, many times I have said the sentence here. Not that I claim to be a good. The last thing I want to do is. Is what I have to do.

[Bryn Myers]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

And even in right decisions, I want my spirit and my flesh wants to do this. I want to have wrath. I want to do this. I want to do that. I can't. Because I have responsibility to others. I am no longer free to truly do whatever I would like to do. And I find it interesting. I was having this discussion, didn't even know we were going here, but I've been having a biblical discussion with a friend of mine about Peter. Okay. So after we, and so we're based, our name is about when Jesus asked him the three times spiritual. But so then in it, we go on, now we know all of that stuff and we've gone down that path. But where I've been kind of stuck on is then Jesus tells Peter after this dialogue, and it's in the John version, he tells Peter, he says to him, when you were younger. This is paraphrasing when you were younger, you could go where you wanted to go and you could do what you wanted to do. We've all been there. And then he says to this to Peter, he says, but now I will lead you. I will lead you into the places you do not want to go.

[Bryn Myers]

And.

[Jeff]

You will extend your. And he tells Peter this, and he says, and you will extend out your arms, okay, and you will go to the place that you do not want at all, showing him exactly how he was going to die.

[Bryn Myers]

And going back to what you said about the General. I don't remember exactly when this was, but it was right after the horrible tragedy with the school shooting in Uvalde in South Texas. And I try to from time to time go to what they call shift change briefings at the police department and just check in, you know, say hi there, early in the morning. It's kind of a brutal. It's a brutal assignment. But I just happened to have that planned. And that shooting happened again. I don't remember the day of the week or whatever, but it was. It was a series of shifts, really, right after that. And so I had an opportunity to listen in to Chief Reynolds, who I think is an excellent leader, and his conversations with his department, with his officers, and just kind of the reflection on. I actually had to step out at some point to collect my composure because it just made me, as a mom of young kids, it just made me. It overwhelmed me with emotion at some point. But just the idea that these men and women have dedicated their lives to this calling, this purpose that's bigger than themselves individually and this resolve that they had that, you know, in the event that something like that happened in temple, they're going in, they're going in. They're going in immediately. They're not waiting, you know, just kind of. That they were having a check in point together. And I was a fly on the wall really, just because I was, you know, just happened to be there for a different reason. And so it was just a really interesting, very moving, emotional for me, opportunity to see them as, you know, folks that have dedicated their lives to potentially losing their lives for us, just have that. That check in with each other. Like, if that happened, you know, just kind of this moment of, hey, this was an example of something really bad happening. And, you know, we're going in, right? You're going in. I'm going in. We're going in. And just this, this idea that, you know, kind of, as you said with, with. With Peter just leading you where you, you may not. You probably don't want to go and you, and you may lose your life for it. But as leaders, whether it's chief leading the department or each individual officer serving as a leader in the community and in their role, it's not necessarily what you want to do, but it's what you're called for.

[Jeff]

I would agree. Could be totally wrong. But my opinion, like you said, any leader that cherishes all that comes along with it, they don't even understand what leadership is.

[Bryn Myers]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

And though a true leader understands the burden and it is what I mean, biblically, you are drug into these places that you do not want to go. Who would go, yeah, you know what, $79,000. That's pretty good salary. I'll go ahead and get shot for that.

[Bryn Myers]

Right.

[Jeff]

You know, and I don't know what. I made that number up in my head, but I've seen the billboard. So they work evidently. $15,000 signing bonus. You come to the city of temple right now. So 79, something something, etc.

[Natalie McAdams]

Is doing it well.

[Jeff]

Oh, invite you to reply, but you go, no, people don't do that for money.

[Bryn Myers]

Right.

[Jeff]

Okay. They can say whatever they want. In this world that we live in, it tries to become something. It's not people when it comes down to it, they want to have something to live for that is bigger than them. And the way you find out what that is, is what you're willing to die for, you know, and so like not going to say, but if you happen to have kids in your family and you truly love them, you probably wouldn't even flinch to sacrifice for them, right? Oh, yes, I'm going to that that's something more than yourself that you're willing to go, my life is not worth anything if I'm not willing to sacrifice it. That's leadership. And then to a bigger scale. And then what's really difficult on the good side. Many of those hard decisions, like we all would seem to believe in leadership, will make that heroic moment decision. Well, yes, I'm going to jump in front of the bullet and everybody's going to read about me in the paper and I'm going to do this. Because that's what leaders do. I'm that much of a hero. Much of the decisions of leadership that are of that scale, nobody even knows the sacrifice that was made.

[Bryn Myers]

Right.

[Jeff]

Nobody's even going to appreciate what occurred. But you still do it because it must have occurred for the people.

[Heather Bates]

Yeah.

[Bryn Myers]

And it's not always big or dramatic, but it's. It's probably. It's usually not big or dramatic. Right.

[Natalie McAdams]

But it's usually weekends or nights, you know, that you're. You're working late just trying to make sure that things get done, which, you know, is a sacrifice to yourself, to your family, that kind of thing. But then. Yeah. Those big moments.

[Jeff]

Yeah.

[Bryn Myers]

This rainy day. I remember another rainy day, not about a year ago, when we had a tornado here. As we're.

[Jeff]

When was that the date we gotta be?

[Bryn Myers]

May 22nd.

[Jeff]

22Nd. Okay. I was going. We gotta be getting.

[Bryn Myers]

Not that I remember exactly.

[Jeff]

Yeah.

[Heather Bates]

Roughly, we're on May 22nd.

[Natalie McAdams]

Where I was at 7pm May 22nd, 2024.

[Bryn Myers]

It actually also happened to be the anniversary of the really devastating tornado that happened. Joplin. Joplin. Which was Chief Randall's. Our fire chief was chief in Joplin when they had, I, you know, a tornado that essentially destroyed their community. Much more severe, widespread loss of life and loss of property in Joplin. And he lost his home in that event. They lost, you know, many fire stations.

[Jeff]

Good. Okay. So we'll just. How about where we were?

[Heather Bates]

Bryn was revisiting the May 22nd.

[Jeff]

Yeah.

[Bryn Myers]

So we're at May 22nd, and then I brought a power loss on us.

[Jeff]

Yeah. How about we switch topics? Okay. So what we're going to do now, we've talked about a little bit of good leaders. Didn't even think we're going to come back to visit you Senate. Because there's two forms of leadership. Okay. You're a good leader or you're a bad leader. So out of this, let's hear definition of what a bad leader. Tell me what a bad leader would look like to y' all. Not by name. Okay. But like, whatever. So, like, we all have those. But, like, tell me what a bad leader is and what that would embody. So tell me. Bad leader.

[Bryn Myers]

I think when somebody cares way more about getting credit for something than that's a good one. Than just doing than seeing the good thing get done, then you start having some really poor decisions being made in leadership.

[Jeff]

Fair. Good. Okay. Et cetera. What do you think?

[Heather Bates]

I love this. I'm changing my name. Officially. Mine are boring because they're kind of the opposite of what we already talked about. But I feel like someone, it's really difficult when you're working with a leader or for a leader who can't communicate their vision clearly and what, what they see as the direction. Like Bryn was saying earlier, what makes a good leader is someone who can communicate the vision and they're visionary and they can do all those things and bring people along with them. So I don't know. It's a boring answer, but I. I feel like someone who can't communicate clearly and get people on board with them.

[Jeff]

That's a good answer.

[Heather Bates]

Okay, thank you.

[Jeff]

No, really, because like that you're going to end up on a walk real quick. If nobody understands where you're going, why do they want to go?

[Heather Bates]

You're end up on a walk and all alone. Yeah, it's not going to be fun.

[Jeff]

Not fun.

[Heather Bates]

Not fun.

[Jeff]

Not fun.

[Heather Bates]

I'll let you know if something else pops into my head.

[Jeff]

Please do. That would be a wonderful moment. Awesome. Okay. What do you think? Bad leader?

[Natalie McAdams]

Very similar. I think it's being too inwardly focused. So there are moments in my career where I look back and I can see where I mishandled situations. One instance comes to mind where I got really annoyed with a staff member and so I took over a process and did it. And that staff member had the bravery and just the absolute strength to come to my office and say, you embarrassed me. I didn't appreciate that. Don't ever do that again. And I sat with that and I was like, I was more concerned about the process getting done than I was about the person learning the process and being able to, you know, complete the mission to get the work done and make it a smooth thing. I was just more concerned about like, oh, this is taking time. I need to do this. And so I think about that moment a lot because I don't want to repeat that ever again. And so I learned through that mistake. But at that time, you know, I was 27 years old running my first library and going, I don't know, I just need you to figure this out. And it was a really humbling experience. And I think about how I don't want to do that ever again. I don't want to put my need to get something else done ahead of teaching my team to put myself in a place of higher importance over the process and over what it is we're trying to do and just be that self absorbed and focused inwardly.

[Jeff]

Very nice.

[Heather Bates]

That's a good one.

[Jeff]

Very good.

[Heather Bates]

Good answer. Good answer.

[Jeff]

Oh, thank you, etc. That's good. So I got approval and I would agree, like, so if there's a commonality in people that I really respect and work well with, it comes to, like, a moment like that where somebody has enough guts and they sit me down and they would be able to explain, Jeff, here's why I think you're wrong, and here's why. And then even me, I love it. Like, there's a young lady here in temple, I think the world. She's grown adult now. God, makes me feel old. She was in my youth group long time ago. She was a sophomore in high school and made some generalities. Very quiet, tender young lady, sophomore, didn't say two words in anything. Long time ago. And she asked if she could have a meeting with me. And she came to the office. I didn't know what we were going to meet on. And she met with me and she sat me down. Young girl, I'm a grown adult. And she explained to me she didn't really like how I was leading and what I was allowing for some of the youth to do she thought was wrong. And she had some scripture and she showed me and I was sitting there and I Part of you, you're going, well, how dare you? I mean, because you're young, you don't know what you're talking about. But if you're able to really look at the courage it takes. If somebody's got enough courage to come sit with me, they're going to get an audience. I will listen to somebody goes, hey, I need to talk to you in the right way, you know, over Facebook or whatever. That's not the right way to tell me I'm wrong. Okay? And you're going to get no audience. But I need to. I got enough courage. I want to sit down with you. And they are expecting a negative outcome. I'm going to come tell you you're wrong, by the way, I think you disrespected me and you did this and that they may lose your job for all they know. But she sat me down and she said, this is why I think this is wrong. And I don't want to be part of a group that this is how things are handled. And we had a very good discussion. She did not leave, I think the world of her. And I said, I do not want to lead a group that somebody like you would not want to be part of. We need to learn together better how to do this. And I'm asking for this same amount of courage that you have. I want it all over the place. Let's lead, you know, and so out of this. Okay, so personally, what's the heaviest burden of being a leader like? And let me ask you, let's go back. Did when you were sitting, like, is it something that you're born into or is it made or combination there? And did you sit like when you were a kid and go, you know what? Someday I'm going to be a leader and I'm going to have to do really difficult, hard things and this is what it's going to be? Or are leaders made? Or are they born true good leaders? So not just people of position and power, they're a bunch of preachers who lead. They ain't good leaders. Okay, there's a bunch of executives who lead. They ain't good leaders. Are really truly good leaders. Are they born more born than made? Genetics, Is it more born than made or more made than born? What do you think and how rare, if you would say, how rare is the element of truly good leader? So how rare is a truly good leader in your experience? And you can count yourself as one. Okay, you don't have to say, well, counting me, I've seen two. But no, how rare is it to run across truly good leaders?

[Bryn Myers]

I think that, I believe that it's a combination, to answer your first question, that you're born with, you know, some innate characteristics of your personality, your skill set that God has given you that, you know, form some of the basis of your ability to want to be a leader, to take on that role. But I don't think that anyone is born ready to lead and with all of the necessary skills and insight and wisdom, and if you aren't, if you don't set your, you know, your mind and your life to honing your leadership skills at all times, realizing you've, you're. You're never arrived.

[Jeff]

It's.

[Bryn Myers]

You're never, you're never at, you know, it is. It's not a destination that you can arrive at to be a good leader. It's something that you have to develop your entire life. I think that it's a combination of something that's developed and something that, you know, you're born with with certain traits and, you know, personality or a skill set that helps you to. If you foster that and you. And you incubate it, that it will. So I think it's a combination in my mind, I'd agree.

[Jeff]

Et cetera. What do you think?

[Heather Bates]

I was also going to say combination.

[Jeff]

Oh, figures.

[Heather Bates]

Seriously, but yeah, I mean, I think that some. You have a per. My thing was personality type. I mean, that is something that I believe you're born with. Based on my two children who I've birthed both of them, me and my husband.

[Jeff]

That's helpful.

[Heather Bates]

And you know, we raised them exactly the same way.

[Jeff]

She just said I birthed both of them. Like if you've got two kids apart.

[Heather Bates]

A few years apart, so they're seven and a half years apart, they could be adopted, they could be a surrogate, various things.

[Jeff]

You're correct.

[Heather Bates]

But they were both incubated in my body. So genetics are the same. And both of them, we raised them both the same way. But the personalities from infantry that they were both born with, entirely different. So I do feel like from birth, because of your genetics, like what Bryn was saying, you can have different personalities, that maybe one is more suited for a leadership role than the other one. But yeah, I do think you have to, to nurture it and always keep growing and admit when you don't know something and you know, just keep learning as well.

[Bryn Myers]

I think it's kind of cliche, but I think we're all leaders and it depends on the maybe the extent, you know, you're, you're not. All of us obviously are leaders of large organizations or great movements, but I think every single person in a situation, in a time is a leader in their life. So I think, I guess maybe I'm going to amend to say we're all born leaders. It's just maybe a different extent. Sometimes I'm a leader in one area and absolutely not a leader in another area. I need to be led in that area. And I think, I kind of think we're all like that.

[Jeff]

That was the follow up question on this in that. And then we're going to keep going. There is not a person I believe that can say, nah, I'm not a leader. No, you choose not to be a leader. And matter of fact, I'm going to say you are leading whether you acknowledge it or not. I would say everybody is leading in some form or fashion one way or the other. Okay. And no level is more or less important. Some of the decisions by a leader can look to have more earthly ramifications. Like, I mean, not get political. President Trump, he can make a decision today that probably has more bearing on individual people than Jeff does today.

[Bryn Myers]

Spirit, influence is larger.

[Jeff]

Yeah, sphere of influence. Okay, very good way to put that. Not more important, the mother who has one single child in East Temple and is raising them and Makes a decision that impacts that single child. Today, the decision was just as equally as important and difficult. Sphere of influence may be slightly tainted, slightly different. Tighter, Tighter, Tighter.

[Bryn Myers]

Yeah, in the moment. But then that child, you know, really feel philosophical. That child could grow up to be the president. And so then that. With a very large sphere of influence. And so that mom, in making that small sphere of influence decision there, she may have influenced a much larger sphere of influence eventually. So you could really get.

[Jeff]

Oh, don't even deep. Oh, don't give me.

[Natalie McAdams]

You're going to butterfly effect the rest of it.

[Jeff]

I'm going the butterfly effect all of this stuff. Because it really. Because I'm always intrigued. We don't know the answer to this is there may have been. Outside of Jesus. We can't, because that was God made flesh. That would be the greatest leader, I would say, that's ever walked the earth. Okay, so then outside of that, we may have had some of maybe the greatest single leader that never stepped into that position, never got the opportunity, that never became what it could have been. Maybe there was a Martin Luther King times 10 out there. And you're going, never, Never came, you know, because of other things that impacted this. I don't know. Could be. I'm always intrigued by that. Of what potential is out there. Even in temple. There may be the answer to all these super questions that are out there. Nobody's bothered to even ask, you know. Okay, tell me, what do you think?

[Natalie McAdams]

Well, I think. I think they've really covered the topic pretty well. But it's made me think of something that we did recently, maybe eight months ago or so. We had a leadership training that city of Temple leadership staff went to, and one of the questions was, name a leader that you admire or name a great leader. And I struggled so hard with that question because I was like, well, most people say people like Steve Jobs or, you know, a president or something like that, but then they also have this very negative side to them. So Steve Jobs, you know, created all these jobs and all of these wonderful products, but he was a tyrant and people hated him. And so I sort of struggle with that dichotomy of like, yeah, you accomplished great things, but you. At what cost to the people that you worked with? And so I was like, the second one to go. The first person answered, Jesus. And I was like, well, there goes my.

[Jeff]

Oh, the Jesus.

[Natalie McAdams]

And I was like, I'm really, you know, I'm having a hard even thinking about, like, people in my family. And I was like, yeah, they've inspired me to do this, but then they also did this and the presenter was like, you know, that is interesting because when we think about leaders, we have to realize that nobody is perfect and so they can accomplish great things, but not everyone is going to be just all around great in every single way. And I was like, well, the first lady said, Jesus, so I think you're wrong, but we have one exception. But so that I, you know, I thought about that a lot because the rest of the answers in the room were, you know, people's fathers and their grandfathers and, you know, local titans of industry. And I was like, well, yeah, they. I'm sure they've also done, you know, things that they were not proud of to get to that point. And then I reflected back and I was like, that's the pressure I put on myself is like, to be good in all of the ways and not recognizing that grace for myself in a position of leadership, because I'm putting it. No great leader has to do all of this stuff. Why would I call them great? Then I realized, internalizing that is like, no, that empathy that I give for others, I also have to give to myself as well. So I think that that's the difficult thing is like, how do we quantify it? When we look at what makes a great leader or what makes a bad leader, is there some greater good that has to come out of that? Because we're all human beings, we're all going to make mistakes and we're all going to do things that we are not proud of. Circling back to the, are you born a leader or not? You know, you all discussed it earlier. We all have a particular sphere of influence where we are going to lead people in one way or another, whether positively or negatively. And so I think that that is a responsibility that we all need to be aware of and make sure that we understand how we're affecting other people. Even if we don't feel that we are leading them, we could just be creating an influence that is going to make them change their trajectory by what we do, what we say, how we interact with other people.

[Jeff]

Triple boo. Sam Marcus. Like, they stink in that. Like, what in the world?

[Natalie McAdams]

He doesn't mean it.

[Jeff]

No.

[Bryn Myers]

Actually, I think we do.

[Jeff]

Yeah, we do.

[Heather Bates]

No, Natalie, we actually do mean it, so.

[Jeff]

No, not the town, all that stuff. Whatever. Okay, very good. Interesting. Interesting concept as leaders, because one of the difficulties of being a leader, and we all are leaders, okay. Our sphere of influence may be different. Okay. One of the difficulties that we have as a leader is we know ourselves too well. And the harshest critic. I don't care A lot of people that really don't like a whole lot of Jeff. That's fine. The one who likes him the least is me. The one who second guessed my decisions the most is not anybody I work with that works for me is me. The one who knows and is scared to death. I don't have great skeletons in the closet. But. But whatever, okay? The one who's scared to death that stands in front of a group that you're called to be leading and you're going, oh, crap. If they just knew this about me, they wouldn't do this. Okay? And so you can get caught in that and to go, I can't. I don't have the right. I don't have the. And what I love. Like, and I'm not. I mean, I do. I like the Bible more for the leadership aspects of it. The eternal deal is cool. I mean, like that one. I'm going to give you that one too. But to look at the leaders that are in it and how they were chosen and what their skill sets were. And they were horrible.

[Natalie McAdams]

They were so flawed.

[Jeff]

So flawed. They were jacked up. Sorry, no count bad guy.

[Natalie McAdams]

But one of the greatest kings.

[Jeff]

That's right. And in the lineage, like, Jesus would point to him as this. That's how you knew who the chosen. He's in the lineage of David.

[Bryn Myers]

Right.

[Jeff]

You know, David did this. He sent somebody out to go die because he wanted his wife.

[Bryn Myers]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

You know, you got Moses. Moses said, no, no, not me. Killed somebody, you know, can't talk. I'll send you Aaron. Okay? You got Joshua. Joshua, God spoke to him, said to him, by like, whatever you do, I will be with you and you will succeed. Period. And then he says, be strong and courageous. Like you would think it wouldn't take much. You got. God's going to say, hey, I'm with you. You're going to win. You'll be just fine. Eight more times in that little passage, does he have to say, be strong and courageous. Be very strong and courageous. Be very, very strong and courageous. I'm with you, dude. I got you. And still he flinched. Still he flinched. Peter, man, whatever you do, dude, man, I got your back. I'm going to die with you. No, you're not. You're going to do this now. Never, never, never. You know, and we do.

[Bryn Myers]

Yeah.

[Jeff]

And we look at that. And then you got David. Even him, the God that we are. The what we serve in leadership. What does he do we forget this as human beings in the modern world? God chooses the weakest of the weak to show his strength. He doesn't pick us because we are perfect. He doesn't pick us because he said I, whew, man, I gifted a lot of stuff in this one that's going to be my leader. No, he gifts our strength, is our weakness. That. Jeff, I'm choosing you to do this because it will show everybody they know you are jacked up. No count. And they will have to attest this only occurred because God himself is the strength. David, it was God, it was this. I want you to stand and so you go. Leadership. And then as leaders we find ourselves, we are empathetic and we are caring to those that we lead. Not so much to us. Not so much to us. And you go, ah, crud. Maybe it's tomorrow they find out this. Maybe it's tomorrow they're going to find out I'm not a good leader. Maybe it's tomorrow.

[Bryn Myers]

The imposter syndrome, I think is often called.

[Jeff]

Yeah. So out of this. And we're going to end there. Anybody listening? Anybody listening? Okay. You would have to say that what you have heard today, you would go, those are some good leaders. Okay. May make. We may all guess what, we may walk out of this room. We're going to make decisions that we ain't proud of and they may not even be the right ones. That goes with the territory. Not saying we're going to make bad decisions, but how.

[Bryn Myers]

Not on purpose.

[Jeff]

Not on purpose. Not on purpose and not that we're going to. But out of this struggle of trying to lead others with empathy and care and vision and articulating that and greater purpose, you know, to get a bunch of people that follow you because they want this world that's so much better than the one we're in, you know, and to lead people to that, to be. Get them to understand there's more, there's a greater out there and to do that and then to understand we are not perfect, nor were we ever tasked to be.

[Bryn Myers]

That there's a really well written poem that I'm going to mess up completely. I'm just going to tell you, the gist of it is that if you want to get people to go on a journey across the ocean with you, you do not try to teach them how to build a ship. You cast a vision for the destination that you're going and they'll figure out how to build a ship with you. Your job as a leader is not to say okay, you take that board right there and you get those nails and you put it together. That's not really, at its highest form, the best way to be a leader. They'll figure out how to get the boards and the nails and put it together and make the ship. If you've cast the vision of where you're going together, and it's so exciting and it's so meaningful and it's so purpose giving to folks that they are going to do their life's work with you to get across that ocean. Because it's not because you taught them how to build the ship, but because you've shared the vision of where that journey will take you together. And then everybody's all in on it. And you don't. You don't need to teach people how to build a ship. They'll figure out how to build the ship because they're really excited to go with you, dad.

[Jeff]

Gummett, we're not stopped. Okay? We're gonna go a little bit longer.

[Bryn Myers]

You were wrapping us up and I wasn't. I'm sorry, you gotta give us a cue or something.

[Jeff]

No, you tapped into one of my, like, in leadership is one of the most intriguing moments and not okay in all leadership to me, which is like, you just said it right there, and we weren't even going to discuss it. 1491, so. 1491, okay. You had a dude over here, which. Whatever. I'm not going to get into, whether we can say him or not or whatever, but Christopher Columbus. Okay. Whether he was or wasn't this any.

[Bryn Myers]

Of that to the point of flawed leadership.

[Jeff]

Right, yeah, Agreed.

[Bryn Myers]

We don't have to get into all that.

[Jeff]

We're flawed people. This dude was so sure that the world was not flat, and everybody else was sure it was. And he never been there. It wasn't like Christopher Columbus was the only dude that ever been across this flat world. He was the only one that he was in the group that led that. I really, truly believe it's not flat. That we can get this place. And the world is not how everybody says it is. That's one thing. He hops in a lifeboat and he paddles himself across the Atlantic and he gets over here and does his stuff. They were like, that's a brave dude. Whoo. Man, look at him, man. He came. He got a group of people to believe that what he said was true. And they went. And the journey was terrible. You had to, but. And he got people to invest in that. Maybe selfish motives or whatever, but hey, you know What? Your life savings? It's all right, because I know this to be true. And now it's the world we live in. Like, it's this. It is common knowledge. He had to get a bunch of people to come along and go, yeah, I promise you it's true. It's true. Like, this stuff is not how we have to live, okay? And so he did leadership. I promise you, we can get over there. And he painted selfishness. There's street gold over there that you can't even imagine. We're going to make fortunes, and we're going to do this, we're going to do that. We're going to do. Okay.

[Bryn Myers]

He may have oversold a little bit.

[Jeff]

Maybe oversold a little bit. Okay. But he got him to go. And he was right. Okay? He was right. And didn't. Like you said, didn't say, hey, guys, we're gonna put this board right here and this board right here and this board right here, and we're gonna do this, this, this, and this. Because we're gonna go someplace that nobody ever thought was possible to go. I don't want to build that. Good luck with you. Here's what we're gonna do. And then a cause worth dying for. Those guys, they were all right with the fact of going, this thing goes down. I'm at least with the group that's going to this place and we say, the world doesn't have to end there. That's worth living for. It's worth living for, you know? So we are going to end with that. And then to go with that, this. This leadership deal, it's the confined. Like, I'm always on this journey of I've gotten to go, like, to places where we once believed the world ended. So I've been. There's a physical place that's on the Skeleton coast in Namibia, Africa, that they believe that was where the end of the Earth was. I had to go there, and I had to stand on the spot that once the world believed it could never go past this point. They were wrong. I had to go in the Arctic Circle because we once believed that you could not go into the Arctic Circle. There was no way doable. Ain't even nothing to it now. I mean, that was nothing, okay? But I had to go. How wrong the world. It was common knowledge not even that long ago, right? That, no, you can't go there. We did. Okay. I've gotten blessed. I've went to where the Incan civilization was that was the greatest that would never fall. I went on the trail where the Spanish came through and destroyed them, and they're gone. Been to the Mayans and seen that, because that was never going to fall. All of these things that we think are certainties, they don't have to be and they are not. And so we have many things in our world that just because we think they are, they don't have to be. The world doesn't have to end right there. And so I'm like, interesting journey. And so out of this good discussion and what we're doing today, leadership, serving others, caring for others, hopefully somebody out there and sphere of influence. If you're in your car right now and you don't have to be leading a Fortune 500 company to be a leader. Hope you hear nothing else. Everywhere you go, in every interaction, you are leading, you're leading. It's that simple. And then you are defining how your leadership looks every moment. So great discussion. We didn't. Not too bad. Like, didn't even know we were going that direction. I had no clue we were going to talk about that. Luckily, we had a communication director in here. Like, that really helped steer the ship right there.

[Heather Bates]

Oh, yeah, I'm here to support you.

[Jeff]

Et cetera, et cetera. Whatever.

[Heather Bates]

What she said, what she said.

[Jeff]

I would have answered better, but, oh, I'm not getting to go. Go first again. So it was a good discussion. And everybody out there, Temple's got some amazing things that we're going to do. We are not satisfied with what people say. The confines of where this world has to end. The boundaries that we think are impassable are not true. The civilization that we think that is unconquerable is not such. It is not such. Everything has a season. Everything has a time. And we are not satisfied with a world that's flat. And we will sail to this round Earth, and we know it is true. Even though now we got all this mambo jumbo that maybe not true, whatever, all that gibberish. So whatever.

[Heather Bates]

Pluto's not real.

[Jeff]

Pluto's not real.

[Heather Bates]

Then there's. I think there's a new planet. I don't know.

[Jeff]

That crushes me. We can't go down the Pluto deal. So out there, everybody, all of this discussion, and you hear, okay, everything we do, everything we're about, we will not deviate from one simple thing. We believe people matter, and they do. And then we would also say this. If you are listening to this, if you are hearing this, you are a person. And then you must make the logical step to say you matter as well. It's that simple. And that is how a community changes. That's how temple changes. Is one simple sentence is that people matter and we matter and we are all people here in temple. It's that simple.

[Bryn Myers]

Sam.