The Commentary Magazine Podcast
Episode: "A Heritage of Shame"
Date: November 3, 2025
Host: John Podhoretz
Panelists: Abe Greenwald, Christine Rosen, Eliana Johnson
Special Context: Episode marks Eliana Johnson’s debut as a regular panelist
Main Theme / Purpose
This episode addresses the eruption of open and ideological antisemitism on the American Right, focusing specifically on the Heritage Foundation’s recent defense of Tucker Carlson following his interview with Nick Fuentes—a notorious neo-Nazi—on Carlson’s podcast. The group explores how supposed “mainstream” conservative institutions like Heritage now appear to be lending credence to the normalization of Jew-hatred, the resulting crisis within American conservatism, and the parallels to both historical and contemporary left-wing antisemitism. The conversation is sparked by Heritage Foundation president Kevin Roberts’s provocative statements and expands into questions of the future of conservatism, the role of Christian Zionists, and what this moment means for Jews, conservatives, and America.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Eliana Johnson’s Background & the Conservative Media Landscape
- Eliana shares her professional journey: from the New York Sun, to Fox News, to Politico, and now the Washington Free Beacon (04:45-08:58).
- Reflection on the difference between mainstream and conservative journalism, and why she returns to conservative outlets.
- Touches on conservatism's shifting media alliances and the importance of institutional memory.
2. The Heritage Foundation’s Crisis & the Normalization of Antisemitism
- John introduces the crisis: Heritage’s Kevin Roberts releases a video perceived as defending not just Tucker Carlson but also the alt-right’s antisemitic talking points (08:58-13:40).
- Christine: Heritage, once merely a “hill-oriented, activist policy institution” (11:03), is now chasing online relevance and radical right-wing audiences.
- John details Heritage’s historical role in providing policy ballast to Republicans – now subverted by Roberts’s culture war posturing (11:30-13:40).
Notable Quote:
"The idea that there is a venomous coalition of people who put the interests of another country, that is Israel, over the interests of the United States... by that he means me and he means you, Eliana, it means Abe and Christine."
— John Podhoretz (09:40)
3. The Myth of ‘Cancellation’ and Dangerous Equivalences
- Eliana: Heritage’s statements are less reaction to real pressure and more a bid for relevance with Tucker Carlson's and Nick Fuentes’s young, overwhelmingly male audiences (16:53-18:29).
- Abe Greenwald: Breaks down two “tactical lies” being weaponized by the antisemitic right (22:48-26:44):
- That any criticism of Israel is instantly labeled antisemitism.
- That platforms like Commentary are trying to "cancel" people like Tucker or Fuentes for speech.
- The reality: criticism of Israel is routine, and what’s objected to is outright antisemitism and dangerous conspiracy-mongering, not dissent.
Memorable Explanation:
"When you say that Israel is running a spy program against the US and hunting down enemies of Zionism, that's not a criticism of Israel. That's a wholesale antisemitic fantasy."
— Abe Greenwald (23:28)
4. The New Right: Platforming Hate for Power and Profit
- Consensus that Heritage and Roberts are courting rising right-wing personalities (Tucker, Fuentes) for political and financial advantage, not genuine ideas (18:29-22:48).
- Discuss how these actors seek to destroy (not build) conservative institutions as part of their anti-establishment pitch (16:53-18:29).
- The “One Voice Policy” at Heritage: once a means to unified messaging, now ironically used to enforce radicalization and drive out dissenters (18:29-19:31).
- John underscores personal disappointment: mother served on Heritage’s board for decades and would have quit over this betrayal (19:31-22:48).
5. The Buchanan Connection & Historical Parallels
- John situates the current crisis as part of a lineage from Patrick J. Buchanan’s 1990s presidential campaigns—a direct pipeline from “paleocon” antisemitism to today’s “New Right” (19:31-22:48, 43:06-46:35).
- Anti-Israel talking points (e.g., America fights wars “for Israel”) were demonstrably false but persist as zombie ideas, reshaping a new right-wing consensus.
Notable Quote:
“Nick Fuentes is a Nazi. ... He says he’s a Nazi.”
— John Podhoretz (21:41) "This is literally an eight-alarm fire ... because it is being set off on all sides. On all sides."
— John Podhoretz (35:17)
6. J.D. Vance, Tucker Carlson, and Coddling of Extremists
- Vance’s response to direct antisemitic and racist attacks isn’t strong condemnation, but a tepid, political hedging (50:43-55:03).
- Panel is aghast that Vance—potential 2028 GOP frontrunner—won't firmly reject antisemitic lies or insults to his own wife.
- The threat: candidates attempting to “thread the needle” legitimizing extremist questions and rhetoric.
"So to sacrifice his wife on the altar of false charges about Jewish control of the presidency..."
— John Podhoretz (55:03)
7. Contrast With the Mainstream and Anti-Americanism
- Tucker’s ideological through-line: anti-Americanism, now fused with antisemitism and anti-Zionism (38:25-39:08).
- Historical analogies: Gore Vidal and left-author critiques of America via Israel.
- Christian Zionism and American Exceptionalism: the philosophical roots and how both are now considered “diseased” by the far right (39:08-43:06).
- The effort to excise “Judeo-” from “Judeo-Christian” tradition.
8. How Should the Right Respond?
- Importance of calling out not just obvious extremists (Fuentes) but also establishment figures enabling this rhetoric (e.g., Carlson) (36:32-38:20).
- Cultural vs. institutional antisemitism: the left’s grew from institutions, the right’s today is anti-institutional, making counter-strategies more complex (63:13-64:37).
- Hope for the conservative grassroots: Trump’s coalition still includes many pro-Israel evangelical voters, a potential brake on further radicalization (64:37-65:38).
Optimistic Notes:
“I was actually pretty heartened by the response to this. ... Many of the major institutions of the Republican Party, many of them and many of the major figures, [were] saying ‘go pound sand’ [to Roberts and the antisemitic fringe].”
— Eliana Johnson (58:09)
9. What Happens Next?
- Real test will be in the next 2–3 years as aspiring leaders like Vance choose which constituencies to serve (71:13-72:49).
- Whether Roberts keeps his job at Heritage will signal how deeply this rot has penetrated the institutional right (72:05-74:31).
- The stakes: potential for a mainstreaming of antisemitic, anti-American positions in a future GOP presidential platform.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (With Timestamps)
-
On the new toxicity:
“This is the survival of the Jewish people in the United States we’re talking about here.”
— John Podhoretz (32:13) -
On what “cancellation” really means:
"I don't want them canceled, I want them ostracized. ... They are trying to mainstream and legitimize discussion points that literally led to the near destruction of my and our people."
— John Podhoretz (32:10) -
On institutional failure:
“If any of [the Heritage Board] are listening—you knew my mother. Think about her… then do the right thing.”
— John Podhoretz (71:13) -
On the misplaced bid for relevance:
“He saw it as a bid for relevance with the young, largely male Republican leaning types who admire Tucker...”
— Christine Rosen (16:53) -
On coddling extremists:
“He [Vance] instantly ceded. They didn’t make demands. And he responded by saying, let's hear ‘em. He actually is on their side.”
— Christine Rosen (54:52) -
On the enduring power of the actual Right:
“The pushback against Heritage... came obviously from all the Jewish Zionists we know, but just from an army of Gentile conservative allies and friends as well. ...I think that is the real American Right still.”
— Abe Greenwald (77:06)
Important Timestamps & Segments
- 04:45—Eliana Johnson’s bio and journey in journalism
- 08:58—Introduction to the Heritage Foundation controversy
- 13:40—Historical overview: Heritage Foundation, Buchanan, paleoconservatism
- 16:53—Motivations behind Roberts/Heritage Foundation’s tactics
- 22:48—Abe’s breakdown of the “two tactical lies” of the anti-Israel right
- 32:10—John’s distinction: ostracizing vs. canceling
- 36:32–38:20—Right’s refusal to criticize Tucker, importance of naming names
- 43:06–46:35—Rewriting Iraq war history, Buchananism, Israel’s role
- 50:43–55:03—J.D. Vance’s troubling response to antisemitic questioners
- 58:09–58:39—Positive: GOP leadership and institutions push back on Heritage/antisemitism
- 63:13–65:38—Institutional vs. anti-institutional antisemitism, implications for the Right’s future
- 71:13–74:31—Will Heritage’s board hold Roberts accountable?
Closing and Recommendations
- Recommendation (74:31): Eliana recommends Scott Jennings’ (CNN commentator) speech to the Republican Jewish Coalition (RJC) as a model for forceful, constructive conservative rhetoric—urges listeners to seek it out online.
- Closing segment reflects mixture of hope and vigilance—pride in the pushback from most of the Right, but concern about the normalization and testing of limits by opportunists like Vance and media figures like Carlson.
Final Takeaways
- The normalization of antisemitism on the Right is at a crisis point, catalyzed by Heritage’s defense of Carlson/Fuentes, but pushback from much of mainstream conservative America offers reason for hope.
- The battle is both institutional (boards, donors, electeds) and cultural (online personalities, influencers).
- The outcome in the next political cycle may determine the direction of American conservatism—and how safe Jewish citizens remain within it.
For further listening:
- Scott Jennings at the Republican Jewish Coalition event (search “Scott Jennings RJC speech”)
Tone: Urgent, unsparing, but ultimately determined and at times optimistic.
Style: Forthright, combative, analytic, occasionally personal.