The Commentary Magazine Podcast

Episode Title: An American War Crime?
Date: December 1, 2025
Host: John Podhoretz with Abe Greenwald, Seth Mandel, Christine Rosen, Eliana Johnson
Theme: Investigating allegations of an American war crime, the complexity of foreign policy towards Venezuela, assimilation and immigration challenges in the U.S., and political reverberations at home and abroad.

Episode Overview

This episode opens with a searing discussion of breaking news: an alleged American war crime in Venezuela under the Trump administration, as reported by multiple media outlets. The hosts grapple with the veracity, implications, and political fallout of both the strike and the administration’s foreign policy, moving on to the ripple effects seen in Congress, immigration policy, and the current state of American assimilation. The conversation also touches upon the COVID fraud scandal in Minnesota, the complexities of NATO ally Israel’s politics, and ends with a tribute to Tom Stoppard, the legendary playwright.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Allegations of a U.S. War Crime in Venezuela

[00:34–07:55]

• The Incident: On Sept. 2, a U.S. military strike destroyed a suspected drug boat out of Venezuela. According to reports, when survivors were left in the water, a second strike was ordered by Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth to "take them out,” allegedly violating the Geneva Convention—a possible war crime.
  • John Podhoretz, summarizing the report:
    “If true, is apparently an open and shut violation of the Geneva Convention and a war crime.” [00:54]
• Political Fallout: The story is based on anonymous sources reported by the Intercept and confirmed by WaPo. Trump, Hegseth, and their defenders call it fake news; others want answers.
• Hegseth’s Reaction: Instead of outrage, the Secretary of Defense tweeted a meme making light of the incident, which the panel found disturbing.
  • Podhoretz’s reaction:
    “That is serious as a heart attack...making jokes about it...just revolting.” [07:03]

2. Congress and the Military “Don’t Obey Unlawful Orders” Ad

[07:55–13:19]

• Context: Shortly before allegations surfaced, a group of Congressional veterans released an ad reminding the military not to obey unlawful orders.
• Speculation: Did the creators of the ad know about the coming Venezuela allegations, preparing a narrative for political fallout?
• Diverging Views:
  • Eliana Johnson: “I do think we're going to find out the truth of the matter. The Republicans...have open investigations.” [08:38]
  • Christine Rosen counters: “Count me a skeptic…not going to attribute to genius what could be attributed to…just bumbling, you know, like some kind of chaos.” [13:19]

3. Venezuela Policy: Strategy or Aimless Drift?

[13:19–24:30]

• Lack of Clarity: The administration has not clearly articulated a Venezuela strategy—is it regime change, border protection, something else?
• Pressure Tactics: Strikes on drug boats, diplomatic isolation, and a military buildup in the Caribbean are described as “regime change on the cheap.” [35:54]
• Historical Insight:
  • Podhoretz on the U.S. approach: “When we talk about regime change, the successful regime changes were Germany and Japan...we do regime change when we commit full military resources...” [29:46]
• The Monroe Doctrine Redux: Discussion of Trump’s revival of hemispheric dominance to address border/fentanyl crises:
  "...a kind of reimplementation of the Monroe Doctrine. This is our hemisphere. We get to say how things work..." [18:10]

4. Discussion of Cabinet Competence and Congressional Oversight

[27:59–29:46]

• Eliana Johnson criticizes cabinet picks:
  “Pete Hegseth and Kash Patel are example A and B of that...Patel is a disaster...a lot of people in this administration play to the social media crowd, who play to Trump's vanity and ego...” [27:59]
• Congressional Disengagement: The administration faces growing irritation from congressional Republicans over lack of communication and dismissiveness.

5. Assimilation, Immigration, and Refugee Policy

[35:18–54:03]

• Afghan National Guard Shooting — Policy Breakdown?
  • Biden’s Afghan refugee resettlement is scrutinized after a refugee allegedly kills a National Guardswoman.
  • Seth Mandel: “You can't have a policy of if you've worked with us, we’ll throw you to the Taliban...it's simply impossible to conduct yourself as a military with legitimacy in foreign countries... if you don't support those who’ve helped you.” [40:55]
  • Christine Rosen broadens to assimilation: “We have issues in this country with the assimilation of Muslim immigrants, whether they're refugees or not. We have major issues.” [44:13]
• Historical and Educational Perspective
  • “Since the 1970s, assimilation or acculturation simply stopped being practiced...now, we're bringing in hundreds of thousands...and nobody attends to their moral education as Americans.” – John Podhoretz [46:27]
• Multiculturalism’s Failure?
  • Christine Rosen: “The wolf in sheep's clothing here was multiculturalism, which actually was taught as the New iteration...and it didn’t work.” [49:23]
  • Role of Technology: Eliana Johnson points out that today’s immigrants can stay connected to their homeland, making integration harder.

6. Minnesota COVID Fraud Scandal and Political Consequences

[55:51–60:53]

• Massive Fraud: Nearly $2 billion in pandemic relief was defrauded in Minnesota, mostly through Somali-American organizations, with over 59 people convicted, almost all Somali or Somali American.
• Political Fallout:
  • Christine Rosen: "Walls...is not acquitting himself well...it will have to see whether he pays any price. And...nobody was covering in the mainstream media...when he was on the Democratic ticket..." [58:22]
  • Podhoretz predicts ramifications for Governor Tim Walz and perhaps broader accountability for COVID-related fraud.

7. Israeli Politics: Netanyahu’s Pardon Request

[60:53–68:39]

• Status: PM Netanyahu has requested a formal pardon from President Herzog amidst trial fatigue, ongoing war, and internal divisions. Most major charges are dropped or dismissed; the main remaining charge is taking gifts.
  • Seth Mandel: “Exhaustion with the trial is…the best way to describe it…Israelis are basically just like, ah, fine, so pardon him.” [64:36]
• Trump’s Influence: Trump is actively lobbying for the pardon, deepening the oddity given ongoing war and Netanyahu’s duties.

8. Tribute to Tom Stoppard

[68:39–End]

• Podhoretz eulogizes Tom Stoppard, "the greatest English playwright of our time," highlighting his Jewish heritage, assimilation, and his late-life masterpiece, Leopoldstadt, which explores Jewish identity, tragedy, and Zionist themes.
  • “It is the greatest theatrical work of my lifetime…the most Zionist work of art ever produced.” [68:39–End]

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Hegseth’s meme:
  “That’s just revolting. I don’t know how else to describe it.” – John Podhoretz [07:03]
• On Regime Change:
  “If you’re going to be serious about [regime change], the only way to do it is some form of military action...I don’t think there’s an American stomach to go into Venezuela.” – John Podhoretz [29:46]
• On Assimilation:
  “Multiculturalism...didn’t work. Conservatives were always suspicious of it, because it was undermining exactly what you’re pointing out, John, which is...we are a country built on an idea, and to defend that idea...is actually required. You cannot rely on...more ancient countries...” – Eliana Johnson [49:23]
• On the Minnesota fraud’s impact:
  “This scandal is a way bigger story than people realize...this could be the beginning of dozens of, finally dozens of investigations of COVID fraud all across the country.” – John Podhoretz [55:51]
• On Stoppard’s legacy:
  “The greatest English play written...not coincidentally fundamentally the most Zionist work of art ever produced...the stage is crowded with people at the beginning and denuded of people at the end...the story of European Jewry.” – John Podhoretz [68:39]

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:34–07:55: Alleged U.S. war crime in Venezuela & fallout
• 07:55–13:19: Congressional ad on unlawful orders & political speculation
• 13:19–24:30: Lack of clarity in Venezuela policy
• 27:59–29:46: Congressional relations, Cabinet competence
• 35:18–54:03: Afghan repatriation, assimilation, and immigration
• 55:51–60:53: Minnesota COVID fraud scandal and its consequences
• 60:53–68:39: Netanyahu’s trial, pardon request, and Trump’s influence
• 68:39–End: Tom Stoppard tribute

Summary Takeaway

This episode dissects a fraught period in American politics and global affairs: a possible war crime by the U.S., muddled foreign policy objectives, the pitfalls of identity politics and institutional multiculturalism, and the far-reaching consequences of fraud, both financial and political. The panel’s incisive, skeptical, sometimes wry exchanges deliver a sense of urgency and gravity appropriate to the moment, all while keeping a close eye on the lessons of history—personal, national, and cultural.

For further exploration:

• [Referenced article on the Venezuela strike (The Intercept)]
• [NYT coverage of Minnesota COVID fraud]
• [Elliott Abrams’ essay on regime change strategy]
• Tom Stoppard’s Leopoldstadt