Bungling the Good Things

Summary

The Commentary Magazine Podcast: "Bungling the Good Things" Release Date: April 11, 2025
Host/Authors: Jon Horowitz (Editor), Abe Greenwald (Executive Editor), Christine Rosen (Social Commentary Columnist), Seth Mandel (Senior Editor), and John Podhoretz

---

1. Introduction to Current Events and Hostage Negotiations

Timestamp: [02:07] – [05:46]

The episode begins with Jon Horowitz addressing the imminent holiday of Passover and delving into the complex and evolving situation regarding hostages held by Hamas. He highlights a rare moment of alignment between Israeli and U.S. officials, suggesting a potential breakthrough in negotiations.

Notable Quote:
Jon Horowitz: “There might be a breakthrough with Hamas on hostages. It seems both Israelis and Americans are sensing a shift in Hamas’s approach.” [02:07]

---

2. Internal Pressures on Israel and the U.S. Affecting Hostage Negotiations

Timestamp: [03:07] – [05:46]

Abe Greenwald discusses the increased internal pressures within Israel, influenced by dissent among Air Force reservists who criticized the ongoing war as counterproductive for hostage recovery. He also touches upon U.S. internal pressures, particularly focusing on Steve Witkoff, the Trump administration's envoy, whose primary role is to facilitate deals, often struggling to justify his position.

Notable Quote:
Abe Greenwald: “There’s increased pressure from inside Israel, the U.S., and likely Hamas itself, which may influence the public stance that negotiations are progressing.” [03:07]

---

3. Critique of Steve Witkoff’s Negotiation Tactics with Iran

Timestamp: [06:51] – [08:30]

Jon Horowitz criticizes Steve Witkoff's approach to negotiations, especially his handling of Iran-related discussions. He argues that Witkoff lacks the necessary expertise in nuclear matters, undermining the effectiveness of talks aimed at resolving hostage issues.

Notable Quote:
Jon Horowitz: “Witkoff literally knows nothing about Iran or nukes, which are critical to these negotiations. It’s a recipe for failure.” [06:51]

---

4. The Flawed New York Times Report on Hostage Negotiations

Timestamp: [09:01] – [12:32]

Horowitz condemns a New York Times report allegedly influenced by Adam Borer, Steve Witkoff’s sidelined number two. The report portrayed failed negotiations with Hamas in a derogatory light, emphasizing trivial details like sharing a pastry, thereby undermining the seriousness of the situation.

Notable Quote:
Jon Horowitz: “The New York Times published a disgraceful story fed by Adam Borer, framing failed negotiations over something as trivial as a pastry meeting.” [09:01]

---

5. Future Negotiations and the Risks of Using Witkoff with Iran

Timestamp: [12:32] – [20:12]

Seth Mandel and Abe Greenwald discuss the likelihood of future failed negotiations if Witkoff continues to be the envoy to Iran. Mandel emphasizes that Witkoff’s lack of understanding of Iran’s nuclear capabilities and strategic positioning makes any potential negotiation futile, inching the administration closer to further conflicts.

Notable Quote:
Seth Mandel: “Iran would rather be bombed than give up the bomb. Witkoff’s inexperience with Iran only exacerbates the situation.” [14:03]

---

6. Legal Battles Over Trump’s Immigration Policies

Timestamp: [19:36] – [27:18]

The hosts analyze the Trump administration’s attempts to use the Alien Enemies Act of 1798 to deport criminals, which faced setbacks in the Supreme Court. Abe Greenwald explains that the administration’s strategy involved misfiling cases to gain ideological victories, but the courts have consistently ruled against executive overreach, emphasizing due process.

Notable Quote:
Seth Mandel: “The Supreme Court’s unanimous decisions affirm that due process matters, even for non-citizens. The administration’s use of outdated acts is fundamentally flawed.” [20:12]

---

7. Failures of Trump’s Tariff Policies and Economic Consequences

Timestamp: [27:18] – [38:21]

Jon Horowitz provides a comprehensive critique of President Trump’s tariff policies, labeling them as strategically disastrous. He argues that the tariffs have destabilized the global economic system, causing market turmoil and hampering long-term economic growth. The discussion extends to the impractical goal of restoring heavy U.S. manufacturing, which Horowitz deems obsolete in the 21st-century economy.

Notable Quote:
Jon Horowitz: “The tariffs are a desperately stupid policy with an illusory goal of restoring heavy U.S. manufacturing, ignoring the need to advance into a high-tech, highly productive economy.” [35:05]

---

8. The Impact of Trump’s Policies on National Security and Universities

Timestamp: [39:14] – [54:47]

Christine Rosen and Abe Greenwald explore the Trump administration’s attempts to influence academic institutions, particularly targeting universities like Columbia and Yale. They discuss lawsuits against Palestinian financier Mr. Masri and the termination of Iranian national Helia Dugati from Yale Law School for alleged ties to terrorist organizations. The hosts argue that these actions reflect a broader strategy of undermining academic freedom and national security by targeting perceived sympathetic entities.

Notable Quote:
Christine Rosen: “The mass class-action lawsuit against Mr. Masri and the firing of Helia Dugati illustrate a systemic effort to corrupt and control academic institutions.” [47:01]

---

9. Conclusion: The Administration’s Bungling of Policy Initiatives

Timestamp: [57:18] – [63:11]

The hosts conclude by summarizing the Trump administration's failures across various policy areas, from foreign negotiations and immigration to economic policies and academic integrity. They emphasize the cumulative effect of these bungled initiatives, leading to frustration among the American public and weakening the administration's credibility.

Notable Quote:
Jon Horowitz: “Trump’s administration has bungled everything from hostage negotiations to tariffs, leaving the American public frustrated and policies in disarray.” [57:18]

---

Overall Insights and Conclusions

The episode "Bungling the Good Things" presents a critical examination of the Trump administration’s handling of key national and international issues. The hosts collectively argue that mismanagement in hostage negotiations, flawed economic policies, overreaching immigration strategies, and attempts to control academic institutions have led to significant setbacks. They highlight the role of internal and external pressures, legal challenges, and ineffective leadership in exacerbating these problems. The discussion underscores a pervasive theme of incompetence and strategic failures, suggesting a bleak outlook for the administration’s ability to effectively govern and address pressing challenges.

Key Takeaways:

• Hostage Negotiations: Internal dissent within Israel and the U.S. is affecting diplomatic efforts with Hamas, with envoys like Steve Witkoff lacking necessary expertise.
• Economic Policies: Tariffs imposed by the Trump administration are destabilizing global markets and failing to achieve their intended economic resurgence.
• Immigration and Legal Battles: The administration's use of outdated legal acts for immigration enforcement is consistently being overturned by the Supreme Court, emphasizing the importance of due process.
• Academic and National Security: Efforts to influence and control academic institutions are met with resistance and highlight underlying national security concerns.
• Overall Administration Critique: A pattern of policy mismanagement and bungling undermines the administration’s objectives and erodes public trust.

---

Note: This summary focuses solely on the substantive content of the podcast episode, omitting advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections as per the provided guidelines.

Transcript

[John Podhoretz]

What does the future hold for business?

[Jon Horowitz]

You know, if you ask nine experts, you're going to get 10 answers.

[John Podhoretz]

A bull market, a bear market, rates rising, rates falling, inflation's going up, inflation's going down. You need a crystal ball. But of course, there is no crystal ball. And that's why 41,000 businesses have future proof their business with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one Cloud ERP, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory and HR into one fluid platform with one unified business management suite. There's one source of truth giving you the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. With real time insights and forecasting, you're peering into the future with actionable data. When you're closing your books in days, not weeks, you're spending less time looking backwards, more time on what's next. If this were the kind of product commentary needed, we would take it in a heartbeat. Whether your company is earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. And speaking of opportunity, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com Commentary the guide is free to you at netsuite.com Commentary netsuite.com Commentary.

[Jon Horowitz]

Hope for the best, Expect the worst Some preach and pain Some die at first the way of knowing which way it's going Hope for the best, Expect the worst Hope for the best welcome to.

[John Podhoretz]

The Commentary Magazine daily Podcast. Today is Friday, April 11, 2025.

[Jon Horowitz]

I am Jon Horowitz, the editor of Commentary Commentary magazine. With me as always, Executive Editor Abe Greenwald. Hi Abe.

[Christine Rosen]

Hi John.

[Jon Horowitz]

Social Commentary columnist Christine Rosen.

[John Podhoretz]

Hi Christine.

[Seth Mandel]

Hi John.

[John Podhoretz]

And Senior Editor Seth Mandel. Hi Seth.

[Abe Greenwald]

Hi John.

[Jon Horowitz]

We begin the holiday of Passover tomorrow night and there is some news or hopeful news or delusional news or penumbras and emanations that there might be a breakthrough with Hamas on hostages. The reason that I am reporting or talking about this at all is that it seems to be coming both from the Israelis and from the United States, thus making this an unusual moment of congruence on the idea that something has changed in the way Hamas is talking about this. Seth, do you have any thoughts or hopes or don't want to have all pulled away again?

[Abe Greenwald]

Yeah, look, Israel has had the pressure, internal pressure increased in recent days and I don't know if that is a factor at all, but there were Air Force reservists who didn't threaten not to show up for their reserve duty, but publicly criticized the continuation of the war and said this is counterproductive to getting the hostages home. And the new IDF chief of staff dismissed them from their reserve duty. It turned out that like 40 of the 700 were active reservists, and the rest were, like, retired or something like that. But the point is that there's. There's. After that happened, some other reservists said this is not a good direction to go in, and, you know, et cetera. And so there was a bit of opposition bubbling up, and I wonder if that has anything to do with it. But it's definitely more pressure from the inside on the Israelis as far as Trump is concerned. He's always wanted a deal. And I think that Witkoff, Steve Witkoff, the envoy, essentially, I think that he exists to have to make deals, and that's his sort of raison d'etre in the administration. And so he doesn't like to go too long without justifying his own existence, which is basically what I think he's trying to do. So I think that there's. There's been increased pressure on both the Israeli, internal Israeli pressure, internal American pressure, and we can assume internal Hamas pressure in Gaza on Hamas, because we've all seen the protests over the past few weeks against Hamas's rule, and we've watched Israel take out one by one again, whoever has inherited the various leadership mantles, whatever the Hamas cabinet looks like now, you know, they're also getting picked off, including the other day, somebody who participated in October 7th and one of the Hamas officials. So I think there's internal pressure on all three fronts, and that probably has something to do with the public posture that, you know, hey, guys were close. At least trying to reassure the public, hey, guys were close. Something's about to change.

[Jon Horowitz]

Well, that's disappointing, if your analysis is correct, because it does suggest that nothing has changed other than the decision to say that things have changed. Not that things have changed. And I was heartened because it sounded like things might have changed. But if you are inducing from internal Israeli domestic discord that the people who are leaking out about this are doing so in order to reassure the public in Israel that efforts are being made to release the hostages that really involve a change of heart or a. Or a desperation play on the part of Hamas to save itself from its utter destruction that we've seen fast approaching, then I would say there isn't much hope there. But who knows? And of course, the thing is, you mentioned Witkoff. Witkoff is not on the hostages this weekend. Witkoff is on Iran this weekend.

[Abe Greenwald]

Fresh from Ukraine Fresh from Ukraine, Saudi Arabia on Ukraine now on Tehran instead of on the hostages.

[Jon Horowitz]

So he is supposed to go to Oman. I mean, he's going to Oman this weekend. They have no agenda. They don't know what they're talking about with the Iranians. And Wyckoff literally knows nothing about Iran or nukes or nuclear energy or enrichment of plutonium and uranium and all of that. Things that a lot of us had to learn 10 years ago when the JCPOA, the Obama Iran deal took place, where suddenly we are all, like, taking Nuclear Physics 101 over. What it means to. To refine, refine uranium to 20% to 60% to 80%. What's the breakout time for. For refinement of uranium that could lead to its being put in a nuclear weapon. Do they have warheads? They have warheads that can fit. Have they tested anything? All of that, that suddenly, you know, in six months of intense reading, a lot of us ended up sounding extraordinarily tight about these matters. And Witkoff is not that person. And God knows who he's bringing with him, because for all we know, they fired everybody in the US Government who knows anything about nuclear weapons the way. The way the Doge firings have been, have been working. So I don't know what that.

[Abe Greenwald]

But to be clear, Witkoff is a major source for the hostage. He's. He's the source for a lot of the optimism on the hostage deal. So wherever he is this weekend, he told the families, we've got a serious deal on the table. You know, it's a few days away, whatever it is. So it's, you know, he, he's got his hands still in everything. Because I think Wyckoff is, is the main reason people think that the Trump administration is optimistic about a deal.

[Jon Horowitz]

Okay. And you know, that really, that the nickel will get you a cup of coffee with this guy as far as I can. There was a really. We didn't get a chance to talk about this. Earlier the week, there was an astoundingly disgraceful story in the New York Times that was clearly fed to them totally by Adam Borer, who was the sidelined number two, Steve Witkoff number two, who was. Who is the guy who was negotiating the last hostage deal. And the story was framed as the US And Hamas were close and Israel scuttled the deal on the hostages, according to six people named Adam Borer and his son Phil and his wife Judy and whoever else is in the Borer camp. And the, the details of the supposed deal were that they had coffee and they ate a pastry. And they were discussing how amazing it was that the US And Hamas were talking directly. And wasn't this piece of pastry that they had at midnight really delicious? But unfortunately, they couldn't come to terms because Israel got mad and Ron Dermer, Bibi's sort of alter ego, you know, yelled at Borer about, you know, sucking up to Hamas or something. And then it all just fell apart. This was an actual story peddled by an actual Trumpian shonda essentially propounding Hamas propaganda because he was humiliated by Hamas after they ate their pastry. Because Hamas is like, yeah, I'm sorry, you know what? We could let one guy out for 500, but you know what? And then he said, well, how about 2fe? They're like, well, you know, we can't do that. I'm just, I'm so sorry. Like, it's just not enough. You know, this is just our way. Our way is to take people, kidnap them, torture them, try to kill them, hope they die. And then if you come to come to us and say, we'll let 250 people make sure the Israelis let 250 people out.

[John Podhoretz]

Can't.

[Jon Horowitz]

Can't do it, Sally. I'm sorry. This is not personal. It's not personal. It's purely business. And by the way, Hamas also threw in for good measure that the United States States, in exchange for a Don Alexander, the, the last surviving American hostage, that, that we should release two officials of the Holy Land foundation, the Richardson, Texas Hamas funding front that was busted in 2007, and its leadership thrown in prison for the rest of their lives because they were raising money as a nonprofit and then funneling it to terrorists who were killing Jews and Americans. And so Hamas not only wouldn't accept 250 hostages for Aidan Alexander, it also upped the ante with the United States demanding that we release prisoners convicted in a court of law with a jury of the peers, 12 people, you know, like, so. And then we get this story in the New York Times that Israel scuttled the deal with Hamas. I mean, I really hope that that guy, if he ever goes to shul, has eggs thrown at him from the women's balcony is all I'm saying.

[Seth Mandel]

Well, we're gonna have, we're gonna have another version of this dance. If Witkoff sits down in Oman with the Iranians, we're gonna have another version of this dance with Iran. Because on Monday, Trump said if they don't make some sort of deal, we're gonna bomb them a Bombing like they'll never see. So, again, the threat is issued. All Iran needs to do is buy time, get some sort of delay on any sort of deal at all or any sort of negotiation. And our friend Royal Garecht, I think, put it succinctly in the Wall Street Journal today, where he said Iran would rather be bombed than give up the bomb. And if the Trump administration doesn't understand their position, which it sounds, I think, like they often don't, they're not dealmakers in the same sense that Trump, in the art of the deal, talks about deal making. If he doesn't understand where they're coming with this and the mistakes that American administrations have made in the past, most notably Obama, then they're going to eat our lunch again. And that's actually one of these situations. And he's done it with Xi, with tariffs. Trump thinks that strong men respect him, but that is not what's going on in these negotiations. And I think the fact that they're sending Witkoff is very worrisome. This guy. The charitable explanation would be that he's spreading himself too thin. The actual explanation is that he doesn't really understand the complicated give and take of these regions and their history. So we'll see what happens with Iran. That's a. You know, again, Trump loves to make the threat and then back off and say he won and made a good deal. That's not the way it works with Iran.

[Jon Horowitz]

I mean, he did say this is their last chance. And we will allow. We will. There'll be a bombing, will bomb them, but Israel will take the lead. So it's. It's funny. It's like, can we get confirmation from.

[Seth Mandel]

Israel on this strategy that Trump has publicly announced?

[Abe Greenwald]

America has the bombs that are needed. America has the bombs that are needed to actually do this, but Israel will show them how to get there, I think is what he was saying.

[Jon Horowitz]

Yeah.

[John Podhoretz]

Follow us.

[Jon Horowitz]

I'm sorry, didn't we just spend 15 years on the leading from behind strategy, making fun of Obama and the Obamas for talking about leading from behind? I mean, Trump literally said, we'll lead from behind.

[Christine Rosen]

Yeah, but I gotta say, yeah, go ahead. I mean, that would be. I'll take it if even that comes to fruition, you know, because, like, whatever he says doesn't mean, you know, the thing about Witkoff is whenever he goes and meets with a bad actor, he comes away completely gold. He fawns, he. Oh, my God. The painting that Putin commissioned for Trump and the Qataris are doing God's work. And you know, like, it's not even just that he doesn't know the details of a given situation. He's becomes enchanted with the halls of power, wherever those halls are, or he is you know, tasked with, as Seth has pointed out, bullying the weaker power, whoever they are, wherever he goes. And we just see the same dynamic play out over and over again. Like, Witkoff is sort of the Trump whisperer for the bad guys.

[Jon Horowitz]

Okay. I think that's a right. Or to be more cynical and not that he's necessarily gulled a. He's got business interests in gutter and he is not himself. He's doing this, you know, as a patriot to help the President of the United States, but, like, he's first and foremost a businessman who's kind of taken a king a leave from his business to do this and isn't going to screw up his future by getting aggressive with, you know, a country that, you know, in which he seems to have billions of dollars at stake. So that's number one. Number two, there is this theory was the, it was the Jesse Jackson, Bill Richardson theory of negotiating that you go somewhere to negotiate and then you suck up with the people you're negotiating with. You know, you go and you, you give them a. You give them a nice, you give them a nice. Thank you so much. You're so wonderful in every possible way. And your wife is so big. Like Jimmy Carr was always his lovely wife. You know, Bashar Al Assad's lovely wife. So, so, so lovely. Or Hafiz Al Assad. Excuse me. And, and, and Kim Jong Il. Beautiful. Their wives, beautiful. Just enchanting. So there is this idea that you go, that the, that the easiest commerce is to flatter somebody else and see if you can, like, get their wives to, you know, pillow talk them into helping whatever it is you're trying to negotiate with them. That's Jimmy Carter after the Carter presidency. I'm talking about when he would go and do this kind of Logan act, violating individual diplomacy game to get people out places or whatever. But, so you could say that that's a strategy that he is pursuing, that Wykoff is not a sentimental person who liked Putin's painting. He just thought that would be a, that would be a proper game to play. He just literally has had nothing to show for his negotiations now. We've now had like two or three major Witkoff negotiations. The situation between Russia and Ukraine is worse than it was before he started. Not that that's his fault, because Russia is just simply taking advantage of the administration's decision to make it clear that it doesn't really care what the outcome is here in Ukraine. And similarly with the negotiations with Hamas where he just started yelling at Bibi on Chavez and giving him a hard time. But the Trump administration has a lot on its plate and it is important to note that yesterday one of its it would now appear that its strategy to use the Alien enemies Act of 1798 as its modality for dealing with the deportation of criminals has basically come full bore smashed into the wall of the Supreme Court. Because the Supreme Court yesterday, in a, I guess a unanimous decision that there were not decision, but in which there were a couple of corroborating opinions written, insists that the in an unsigned order that Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the person that the administration acknowledges it has wrongly put on the plane to El Salvador that it must take steps to have him returned to the United States. The administration had taken this very peculiar line that it kind of acknowledged that it made the error, but now that.

[Seth Mandel]

This guy was called it an administrative error, which suggested that the underlying justification for picking him up and sending him off in the first place was still fine, which is what the court was saying is not true.

[Jon Horowitz]

Right. But also that you can't then say, well, we don't have any, we don't have custody over anymore. He's in an El Salvador in prison. What do you want us to do?

[Abe Greenwald]

And the attorney who wrote that brief for the attorney who admitted that was put on leave. Right. As far as I remember, yeah, they, they made it clear that we don't want people doing that again. Don't tell the court we made a mistake.

[Jon Horowitz]

The attorney who made that case in federal court was put on leave. Then somebody else basically said exactly the same thing either to the supreme like there was no choice, but they had to acknowledge that they'd made an error here. The question was that the error had been made, did not vitiate the policy. And effectively the Supreme Court is now saying, yes, the policy is compromised because it did say earlier in the week in a 9, 0 finding that these people who have been sent on the plane to have the right of habeas corpus like they, they, they, they can challenge their detention and deportation in a courtroom. And that the problem was that if that's the case, as Andy McCarthy explains in an extraordinarily, as you as usual, extraordinarily helpful piece, they filed in the wrong court. The, the, the immigration lawyers filed in the wrong court because they were judge shopping and they wanted to get Judge Boasberg because they knew he would do what they wanted. But they had to file in the court physically closest to where the body. Habeas corpus. Right. Have the body where the body is. And if the body is in El Salvador, you have to file in Southern Texas because that is the venue that is closest to where the body is if what you need to do is get the body back. Not a court in Washington where there is a conveniently ideologically friendly judge. And so that's sort of common law forever. And so the lawyers did something ideologically convenient to them, but juridically wrong. However, all of this is going the way against Trump.

[Seth Mandel]

Well, and I think we should. We should. It's worth pointing out because as conservatives, we often criticize Democrats for doing this, which is instead of trying to pass legislation or do things through Congress, they, they do whatever they want and then ask the courts to basically decide. Trump now has all kinds of different orders and appeals before courts, more than most presidents have had throughout their entire terms as president. They've already filed. So they are, they are using the courts to try to get away with more than certainly they could via legislation. And definitely what they should be trying to do with regard to due process, even of foreign nationals. And I think this in particular is a very strong. I'm very glad it was 9 oh for these decisions saying due process matters, even if you're not a citizen. We still in this country have a way of doing things and that cannot be disrupted by claims from the executive and overreach by the executive. So I think that's really, that's a very important and for me at least, reassuring example of the three branches doing their jobs, or at least one in particular. But we should, Trump should not be using the courts in this way. And I think there's going to be some fatigue with, with the administration if they continue to try to push through these, this executive overreach rather than seeking legislative remedy.

[Unknown]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Therapy can be a source of support for any area of your life. It could be time to shift the focus from doing it all to knowing that we're better when we ask for help. I've benefited from therapy several times in my life. I have no difficulty thanking my therapists for the help that they have given me. And I am proud to be someone to recommend therapy to people who are in need of help that they can't get anywhere else. BetterHelp is fully online, making therapy affordable and convenient. Serving over 5 million people worldwide, you can access a diverse network of more than 30,000 credentialed therapists with a wide range of specialties, and you can easily switch therapists anytime at no extra cost. Build your support system with Better help. Visit betterhelp.com commentary today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp H-E-L-P.com commentary hey everybody, vacation.

[John Podhoretz]

Season is upon us. Spring has hit New York. Got some warm weather, got some rain, but it's just making me think about the summer and the fun that I can have. Fun my wife and I can have. We got a trip planned for Wisconsin in July. Other stuff we're going to do with our family later in August. And this year I'm going to treat myself to the looks upgrades I deserve with Quince's high quality travel essentials at fair prices. And the premium luggage options and stylish tote bags they offer are perfect ways to carry all of my Quince goods. My sweaters, my polo shirts that I just got from Quince and those like everything else you get there, priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. How? By partnering directly with top factories, Quince cuts out the cost to the middleman and and passes the savings on to us. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. So for your next trip, treat yourself to the looks upgrades you deserve from quint. Go to quint.com commentary for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q-U I N C E.com commentary to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quint.com commentary.

[Jon Horowitz]

The central point of what Trump did is that he was attempting to follow along with his success in 2017 when he shut the immigration system down, as you'll recall. And then the Supreme Court found that under the terms of the 1952 National Security act, that the president had pretty much been granted this power by Congress to do this and that, saying that he didn't was a mistake. And this is the chutzpah of what they were doing in the last couple of months here, which is they're like, you know what, the National Security act said this. But there's this other act in 1978 that seems to give us another power and the Alien Enemies act. Let's try that too.

[Seth Mandel]

Well, they're snatching defeat from the jaws of victory because the American people are already on Trump's side with regard to the border, with regard to illegal immigration, and they again, if they would do more process oriented work that would have long term implications while also trying to get some sort of reform through Congress that would actually be beneficial. That's, that's not what they're doing.

[Jon Horowitz]

There's.

[Seth Mandel]

Sorry.

[Jon Horowitz]

I mean, I think that is a very important point and maybe we can delve into this. So, you know, Trump has these issues. He's 70, 30. So when all this started, particularly campus stuff and all of that, the idea is, look, he's, he's, he's asking the liberals to throw him in the briar patch. This is what, you know, this is what he wants. Because it, if they really push for Muhammad Khalil and all of this, it just like reinforces in the American people the idea that they are more on the side of the bad guys than the good guys and that will be politically helpful to them. But chaos is not helpful to politicians. I'm sorry. I know people seem to think that because Trump is an agent of chaos, chaos is good, but chaos is fine. Or Trump, whatever.

[Seth Mandel]

Trump uses chaos as a strategy, but they're wrong about that. It's just chaos, which is not good.

[Jon Horowitz]

Chaos is not a ladder. For those of you who are fans of Game of Thrones, chaos is not a ladder. And Littlefinger is killed because he thinks chaos is a ladder eventually. So chaos is the opposite of a ladder. And I think the problem that is now facing the administration, particularly in relation to the tariffs, all this is, everything is starting to blend together in the idea that my, you know what, I keep using these Jewy terms because I, because I am in Chicago for Passover with my wife's family. And so I'm very happy this. But it's like a bala gone. Everything is mushing together with everything else. The tariffs are a mess. There's 10, 15 different court cases. The Supreme Court is finding this, this is happening over here. And even the things that the public would support him on and does support him on, like the student visa stuff or even like the idea that you can deport a green card holder if he expresses, you know, if he seems to be providing material support to terrorist groups or whatever, it just all starts leeching together and it's like, this is all just a mess.

[Abe Greenwald]

Well, it feels a bit like if you watch the NBA, if you watch professional basketball these days, you will notice. And even if you saw it in the NCAA tournament, it creeped in there, too. The replay challenges have slowed down portions of games to where it's like watching golf at a certain point because they have increased the situation. The Game situations that require it. It's like, you know, if, if the court requires a recount in an election, if, you know, if the, if, if the difference is less than a half of 1% or whatever between the candidates, there are increased situations where you have to review it and whatever late. And so it started to feel like this really exciting game. Not exciting necessarily in a good or bad way. Just things were moving fast. The chaos, it feels a bit like the chaos has slowed down because every order that the Trump administration puts out goes to court and then is reviewed pretty quickly by the Supreme Court. And so it feels like we're getting a, you know, game time stoppage for replay review of almost anything he says now. And I don't know if that's ultimately going to end up helping him in a weird way, because it has slowed things, I think. And maybe the Americans would think, the other Americans would think I'm crazy, but I feel like things have slowed down because of the courts. And unless the administration really starts losing the cases. Not on habeas corpus, but, you know, if they lose the Khalil case, you know, that things. That will be a major setback for the administration and its policies if it slowed down. And then the court says, well, look, it's true what you say. You have wide discretion to revoke his, his status and send him back to Syria. Then in the end, all that's happened is the administration will get the end policies it was looking for. Things will have been slowed down in the meantime, and the courts will essentially have sanctioned some significant part of whatever is driving these policies.

[Seth Mandel]

Well, and politically, it doesn't make sense, for it's a conservative court. They're perceived by the public and certainly by the Democrats as already being on Trump's side. So repeatedly being told by the conservative court that actually, we have due process. No, you can't do things this way. No, this, this act does not apply to what you're trying to do here. It's a, it's a. I love it because they're scolding him in the way that the founders of this country wanted the court to do. They're reviewing these acts, but it's also sort of a shadow sideshow to what the court's usual work is. And so I think he's politically. And we saw this actually when Amy Coney Barrett did not rule with the conservative majority on a few of these cases, the attacks that she faced, the sort of vitriol online, which I hope she's not wasting her time reading, but was indicative I think of a, of a segment of the MAGA coalition that doesn't really understand where the court's coming from and what its role is. So just politically, it doesn't make sense to me that he keeps throwing stuff before the court this way.

[Christine Rosen]

I think if you look at it in its totality, even beginning with our opening discussion about Witkoff's various failed negotiations and the state of Russia and Ukraine, this tariff insanity that we just went through, the courts push back. If you look at it, if you sort of make a kind of scorecard. So far, Trump is suddenly having, or not so suddenly, but is, I think, you know, he's having problems in a lot of classes, you know, right now. Like he's, he's, I mean, what, what.

[Seth Mandel]

If you really take conference is going to have you.

[Christine Rosen]

The border stuff seems to be good, right? Like that, you know, he's, he's sort of cracked down in a way that's effective enough, you know, that you could say, okay, that's, you know, on, on the good, on the positive side of the ledger. Everywhere else he's, he's, it's kind of breaking down and it just looks like they don't know what they're doing. And don't forget the signal leak mess, which was just another sort of screaming sign of sloppiness and incompetence and amateur hour.

[Seth Mandel]

And add to that the fact that, can we just add that Elon Musk had to acknowledge that the savings of Doge are far, far less than he was boasting about at a previous cabinet meeting. So another area where they moved quickly, but actually and promised large things and have not yet been able to deliver.

[Abe Greenwald]

And then the public fighting over the tariffs too. Musk and you know, people, people with influence in the administration just on Twitter calling each other names.

[Jon Horowitz]

But I mean, the tariffs are the, the tariffs are the central matter here, by which I mean that it's the most significant thing the administration has done. By leap, leaps and bounds, he has thrown the world economic system into, into disarray. Maybe it's temporary, maybe it's permanent, maybe an entire age of world cooperation has ended. Maybe we're over reading this because, you know, it just happened. And he'll back down on this just the way on China, the way back down on everything else. And it'll slowly piddle out before because the consequences are just too, too, too great. And that, you know, he got to kind of play with the world economic system like it was a tinker toy set or like a big Lego and Then he didn't put, then couldn't figure out how to put it together. So he's just going to put it back in the box and sell it on ebay and go back to the way things were. However you slice is not good. And I hesitate to say this is not an ideological finding on my part. I mean, I think the tariffs are a desperately stupid policy. I mean, affirmatively stupid policy. But that's not ideological. It is practical in nature. The goal is illusory, which is somehow to restore, you know, heavy U.S. manufacturing, which we shouldn't want to do because we should want to lean into the 21st century as opposed to the 20th. And we should want to have the world's most advanced economy in terms of its extreme productivity and ability to interweave, you know, high tech with the, with, with how things are made and create a different kind of industrial economy that benefits us in the long run and might, might in fact be the kind of thing that revolutionizes China and the rest of the world simply because sort of like the Soviet Union in the 1980s, we're just going to so wildly out, out advance them in, in terms of innovation that they, that they'll have to cry uncle and give up. That's, that's a generational thing. That's one or two generations. It involves things we don't even understand, like AI and how AI is going to work with things. But that's the promise, right? So I think it's desperately stupid. I'm not, but my, my thing here is not ideological. It's like, congratulations, you did this. For two weeks. The market underwent gyrations of a kind that are incredibly destabilizing for a lot of people. And people start making big long term decisions in panic that they, that might be very injurious to them and they're gonna hold you responsible, well, for having done this to them.

[Seth Mandel]

This is actually where. Because on most of his policy matters, we are in ideological agreement with what he's trying to do. But it speaks to the, to Abe's consistent theme, which we have to figure out a way to turn into some pithy merchandise about how nothing works anymore. And he was brought back in. We did. The American public, I mean, I'm talking about people who voted for Trump, did a kind of trust fall exercise, expecting him to catch them and kind of shift things, just fix what wasn't working. And we are like flat on our backs with a broken tailbone right now going, why didn't you catch us? It's very frustrating because all of the stuff he. We knew he was going to do, tariffs, he campaigned on it. We knew a lot of this stuff. We knew his tough talk about the border. But all of it was expected to work. It's not working. And I think that's the frustration. And that's not ideological, as you say, John. That's just the frustration of an American public going, why doesn't anything we. We expect to have worked, that has worked in the past work now?

[Jon Horowitz]

See, I think going to war with the cultural elite is a winner, no matter what. Meaning, okay, so he says he wants to put Columbia University, the entirety of Columbia University, into some form of receivership. Now, on the one hand, that's bonkers, right? It's bonkers because Columbia is a private institution. Let it. It is going to collapse of its own weight. That's already happening. It's had three presidents in three in four days. You know, people can't go to class. The lunatics are running the asylum. Donations are way down. You know, people aren't going to want to go there because it's such a mess and all that. Like, then insisting that it, as opposed to just simply one department of it, goes into some form of receivership or, you know, supervision is a. Is a bridge too far. But I don't care. I'm. I don't care. Columbia is disgusting and it deserves everything it gets. And, and let them, you know, this is a. This is a power that he can sort of assert under. Under. Led for legislative reasons.

[Abe Greenwald]

But we should note, by the way, that Colombia would have to agree. I don't think he can force them into this type of receivership. So this is also, you know, in a way, there's a gun to their head, in a way. But Colombia will ultimately have to say, I'd rather go that route than continue being hounded by you, you know, week after week.

[Jon Horowitz]

We'll go that route so that you can continue to open, have the federal spigot of money open, pouring down on us. And rather than say, as conservative institutions have now said for 40 years, Hillsdale College being the primary example of this, the deal with the devil that involves federal money to our campus is a deal that is too injurious to what we believe to be our intellectual health. And so we're going to go it alone. And you know what? Columbia has a $20 billion endowment. Let it support itself. Let it say, the hell with you, the hell with your federal money. We don't need your money. That's why we have this emergency money in Case, you know, it's a rainy day fund, and the. And the monsoon and typhoon and tsunami have all hit at once. Goodbye.

[Seth Mandel]

You know, it's a sharknado, John.

[Jon Horowitz]

Right. But you don't get to say, we can't do this or that or the other thing because we're not under your. The threat that you pose to us no longer exists. Now, it does to some extent, because just because you don't take federal money doesn't mean you're allowed to violate Title 6 of the Civil Rights act, which is really the animating force behind a lot of this. But nonetheless, if they. They, it's. It's not. The deal with the devil is Trump wants them to do X, Y or Z. And they could tell him to go stuff it. Let's see if they tell him to go stuff it. Let's see if Claire Shipman, the new interim president of the university, says go stuff it. Or if she had.

[Seth Mandel]

She has already denied the appeal of a bunch of the students, which I think was the right move. She had this. She was this sort of place of final appeal, and she just said, nope, we're done.

[Abe Greenwald]

We've decided the Hamilton hall occupation.

[Seth Mandel]

Yes. Very, very well done on her part.

[Christine Rosen]

Right.

[Jon Horowitz]

So that's number two. Gets to Mohamed Khalil and some of these questions about the student visas and the green cards and all of that, which is, if you really want to play this out, this will be a huge victory for the administration in the right way, which is Marco Rubio's line as Secretary of State, even though this is like a domestic issue, is you do not have a right to be here as a student. It is a privilege. It is a grant. It is a gift that we're giving you. You apply, we say yes. You come in, you have to do. And we can take it away from you. It's like we're inviting you into our home. Come to our home. You pee on the bed. And then you say, you know what? Go home. Get out of here. It's like you came home drunk, you did something. You trashed our guest room. Sorry. Get out. You don't get to stay in my house anymore. Like, that is not.

[Abe Greenwald]

Mahmoud Khalil is not getting his deposit back.

[Jon Horowitz]

There you go.

[John Podhoretz]

It's my. And.

[Jon Horowitz]

And as somebody, as I said last week, but I can't remember who. Who made this point. But I thought it was so good. Is like I was sully magic. Like, you know, he's only in jail because he won't leave. If he left, if it's like, I don't want to be in jail in Louisiana. I'm going to get on a plane and go back to Lebanon where I'm a citizen. I'll go back where I came from so I don't have to be in this jail. It's not like he's in jail because he was arrested and has to go through our justice system. And we wouldn't let him out until he went through, you know, a criminal trial. All he has to do is say, I'm buying a plane ticket from Hartsfield Jackson Airport to be, you know, and I'll go through Madrid and then I'll go to Beirut, then I'll be home.

[Seth Mandel]

And many, many people who've received that notification have self deported. That has actually been one of the positive things about the crackdown is that plenty of people have decided I'm not going to stay. Well, he's now a martyr and a cause, so he's staying right where he is, obviously. But most, many, many other more rational people said, okay, I'm going to just leave. I'm off. I go with no consequences. They came, they broke the law, they stayed here, they profited at some level, whether educationally or financially. And then they went home and we did nothing. We just said, okay, there's the door.

[Abe Greenwald]

Yeah, he's right. He's writing his letters from Birmingham jail. Yeah, got like op EDS and stuff come out open letters to his supporters like Luigi Mangione.

[Jon Horowitz]

Anyway, not to, I mean, I'm only making an unfair comparison that Luigi Mangione shot people in the back and Mohamed Khalil supports the mass murder of Jews. So I don't know, maybe they're not really equivalent because he didn't take the gun and shoot the Jews in the back. But, but certainly he's waving. Both are bad in support of that. They're both bad. Thank you very much. Yes. Okay. One final point to be made is this very interesting lawsuit against the Palestinian billionaire Mr. Masri on the Harvard Board of Governors. Nonetheless, a mass class action lawsuit against him on the grounds that he is a financier of Hamas. And this is a very interesting thing that's happening here because until this week, the idea about this guy, to the extent that anybody knew about him, was that he was a Palestinian moderate, that he was a supporter not of Hamas, but of the Palestinian Authority. You know, which is like being, you know, supporting a child molester instead of a child serial killer. But okay, if that, you know, if you want to say one's better than the other, Congratulations to you. Nonetheless. He was supposedly.

[Seth Mandel]

Both are bad. Anyway.

[Jon Horowitz]

Thank you. You're. You're, you're. Yes, yes, yes. One is worse. Yes, some are worse than I. Right. So it's worse than that. Okay. Anyway, but. Okay, so he's a Palestinian monarch. Turns out he may not be a Palestinian monitor. There is sufficient information in this lawsuit that Harvard Corporation itself said there were significant worrisome questions being raised and he quit the Harvard Board of Governors. This is, could be a slow acting poison of a very, very large nature because it could mean that on American soil, an American citizen, just like the Holy Land Foundation. Now this is a civil suit, not a, not a criminal action. Although, you know, it could lead to criminal. I mean, if he's, if he's been hiding this fact. We are not Americans are not allowed to provide material support to terrorists. That is a criminal act. And under, under US law, it's pretty big. And, and, and it, it's, it's a, it's an extension of the stuff that has been going on where Jewish students have been suing universities for unequal treatment and viewpoint discrimination and various other things into a larger realm that starts getting into why. What are the, what is the funding mechanism that has made this happen on these campuses over the last generation? Is it simply the ideological extension of Edward Said's Orientalism ideas as laid out by Eli Lake's recent brilliant podcast on Edward Said, the Columbia professor who wrote the seminal book on how the west looks at the East? Or was that the kernel of a financial, political, geopolitical strategy on the part of bad actors in the world to affect the opinions of the American elites as regards the Middle east and the things that they want.

[John Podhoretz]

You know, for some, April is the cruelest month, but I don't think so. April is the month that we bring ourselves back to life. We put our old jackets away, we do a big spring cleaning, particularly if you're Jewish. You're cleaning up the house for Passover and when you finish that deep cleaning, you put the jackets away and you get your summer clothing ready for use. We're prepping for warmer days ahead and the most satisfying thing that you can do might be to refresh your bed. I have just done so with new bowl and branch signature sheets. Made with the finest 100% organic cotton, these sheets feel buttery to the touch, breathable to sleep in and get softer with every wash. They are the perfect foundation for your best sleep this season. A perfect accompaniment to that effort to restart, to renew, to revigorate, and to Restore yourself to the joys of outdoor life, summer living and a general sense of well being. And I can say this because I just got them and they're fantastic. They are really fantastic. I can tell you this because put.

[Jon Horowitz]

Them on the bed.

[John Podhoretz]

We used them for two days, my wife and I. Immediately we felt it difference, softer, better. Then gotta say, our cleaning lady came, did the wash, put the old sheets on and they weren't as nice, weren't as comfortable, weren't as fresh, weren't as weren't as soft. So they're made better, they're made different. So you can sleep better at night with that Hundred percent organic cotton. Finest on earth. Crafted by artisans who earn the pay and respect they deserve. Designs and colors for every bedroom style and mattress size. These all season sheets have a breathable, unmatched softness to start. They get softer with every single wash. Perfect foundation for ball and branches, airy bed blankets, cloud like duvets and so much more. And there's a 30 night worry free guarantee so you can try the sheets for an entire month. Seriously, wash style, feel them for yourself, risk free. And if they don't change the way you sleep, you can send them back for a full refund. So upgrade your sleep during Bowland Branch's annual spring event. For a limited time, get 20 off at bolandbranch.com commentary that's B O L L A N D B R-A N C-H.com commentary to take 20 off sidewide for a limited time. Exclusions apply. C site for details. You know, for some April is the cruelest month. But I don't think so. April is the month that we bring ourselves back to life. We put our old jackets away, we do a big spring cleaning. Particularly if you're Jewish, you're cleaning up the house for Passover and when you finish that deep cleaning, you put the jackets away and you get your summer clothing ready for use. We're prepping for warmer days ahead and the most satisfying thing that you can do might be to refresh your bed. I have just done so with new bowl and branch signature sheets. Made with the finest 100% organic cotton. These sheets feel buttery to the touch, breathable to sleep in and get softer with every wash. They are the perfect foundation for your best sleep this season. A perfect accompaniment to that effort to restart, to renew, to revigorate and to restore yourself to the joys of outdoor life, summer living and a general sense of well being. And I can say this because I just got them and they're fantastic. They are really fantastic. I can tell you this because put.

[Jon Horowitz]

Them on the bed.

[John Podhoretz]

We use them for two days. My wife and I immediately we felt the difference. Softer, better. Then gotta say our cleaning lady came, did the wash, put the old sheets on and they weren't as nice, weren't as comfortable, weren't as fresh, weren't as worn, as soft. So they're made better, they're made different so you can sleep better at night with that Hundred percent organic cotton. Finest on earth. Crafted by artisans who earn the pay and respect they deserve. Designs and colors for every bedroom style and mattress size. These all season sheets have a breathable unmatched softness to start. They get softer with every single wash. Perfect foundation for ball and branches, airy bed blankets, cotton cloud like duvets and so much more. And there's a 30 night worry free guarantee so you can try the sheets for an entire month. Seriously, wash style, feel them for yourself risk free. And if they don't change the way you sleep, you can send them back for a full refund. So upgrade your sleep during Bowland branches annual spring event for a limited time, get 20% off at bowl and branch.com commentary that's B O L L A N--B-R-A-N-C-H.com commentary to take 20 off site wide for a limited time. Exclusions apply. See site for details.

[Abe Greenwald]

And a key part here is the is what we find out along the way in these lawsuits. Right. Discovery has been.

[Seth Mandel]

They always settle before discovery.

[Abe Greenwald]

Well so but the thing is that, I mean that's true that eventually especially somebody like Mastery. Yeah, I agree. But right. And also the AP yesterday, right. There was a story that the ap, the Associated Press was sued by victims families, families of victims over its supposed complicity in the October 7 attacks because Hassan Islaya in particular was a freelancer that they had used before and used again. And we know that he was inside the Gaza envelope where the attacks were going on on October 7th. We know that he was taking pictures and riding with Hamas essentially. He does not. Nobody has shown him wearing a press vest in any of these images. He's just a guy with Hamas and all that stuff. And so yesterday we found out that the Associated Press through discovery emails came out that they were told that they internally had been notified in 2018 that Hasan Islaya had these connections. Right. I mean that picture of Hassan Islaya and Yaya Sinwar hugging, that went around a year and a half ago, that wasn't taken recently. So in 2018 they had information that he was a bit too close buddy, buddy with Hamas, and specifically in the emails that they had reason maybe to doubt his reporting and his, you know, reporting of the facts in his photojournalism. And they stuck with him. And there it was, you know, five years later, and this happened. And so whatever happens in terms of a ruling on the AP's liability in the attack, we now know that news agencies knew there were red flags and kept using these guys all along. And so we're finding out things along the way that the problem, the rot is deeper and the problem is deeper and the problem is, you know, systemic. And that it's. It's institutionalized across all these places, institutionalized at the universities, it's institutionalized at the wire services and other news agencies. It's something that is, you know, inside and going to take a lot more to clean up than, you know, promising we won't use this one guy as a freelancer anymore.

[Christine Rosen]

Yeah, it's. It's completely diffuse, you know, and it. You have all these various arms sort of helping each other out. You know, there's the academic sort of groundwork. You know, that's the, there's the Saeed stuff. Yeah. And then, but then you have, you know, all these nonprofits that kick into action and these legal funds, and then you have administration, I mean, government administration, you know, on the Democratic side, administration. People always getting involved and helping out. And, you know, it's like what we hear about Khalil's security clearance in England or wherever else. You know, it really is this vast architecture that has been built up over years in order to sort of establish facts on the ground, to sort of put people and institutions in places that make it hard to just bring a sledgehammer to. And we see it. We see all of it kicking in, and it's amazing how lax the US Sort of Homeland Security has gotten on this issue over the years. I mean, you would think, I mean, I know 911 was a long time ago, but that long ago, it wasn't World War II. Like, you know, shouldn't we still kind of be vigilant about this kind of thing?

[Abe Greenwald]

John made the point a few weeks ago when we were talking about the lawsuits that, like, it's taken the lawsuits to learn things that Abe, as you say, maybe our, our security agencies should.

[Jon Horowitz]

Have picked up on right now, by the way, one last point on the, on. On the university front and things that you learn over time that are very revelatory of what's been going on over the last 20 years. Is that Yale this week or maybe last week or the end of last week? Fired a scholar at the Yale Law School. Her name is Helia Dugati or Dutaghi. So she is an Iranian national. And she was terminated on March 28 after refusing for several weeks to appear in person to answer questions about serious allegations that included a possible connection to the Samidoun Palestinian Prisoner Solidarity Work, which is a sham charity. We have declared the United States and Canada both serving as a fundraiser for the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, which is like, which is like the Beatles of. It's like a 60 year old organization. One of the earliest Palestinian terrorist organizations still kicking, still there. PFLP despite the death of its longtime founder. Crazy. What's interesting about this is that the question is, so how did Helia Dugatti get to Dotaghi. Get to Yale Law School? Well, she's not only at Yale Law School. She runs or co runs a program on imperialism and colonialism and at Yale Law School. And if you read her resume and the organizations that she's been involved with and look at some of the things that she has done on YouTube, including participating in a trial of the United States for being a colonial oppressor, it's clear that she's at Yale Law School because she is a fundraiser for Sami Dune. I don't mean that they hired her because it's like great fundraiser, terrorist organization. I mean they hired her and gave her this position or she assumed this position of co chairman of this committee inside Yale Law School because she is a radical, anti American, anti Israel, left wing supporter of terrorist causes and is an Iranian national. She's not a dissident. She's not like out there, you know, with the purple revolution with her finger. And she's not like, you know, rioting in, you know, in the streets of calm and places like that. She is an Iranian national, anti American, anti Semitic, anti. And this is who Yale wants on its law school staff.

[Abe Greenwald]

And we should also note that Sami Dune is run by Charlotte Cates, who is the wife of, of a PFLP leader. So even before last year when the United States government listed Samidoon as an official front for the pflp, an official fundraising front for the PFLP and prescribed it even before that. You understood that this was part of the PFLP in a, in an essential way. Literally. This was the family business. This was the husband and wife. And Sami Dune was founded by that husband, by that PFLP official who then just, you know, handed it off to his wife.

[Jon Horowitz]

So just to bring this around full circle, and then we got to go. This is what the Trump administration should be. This is where it has the American people at its back. What's more, it has reason and common sense at its back. It has the possibility of uniting the entire right without. And, you know, 100% of the right agrees with all of this, unless your name is Tucker Carlson, apparently. And all of that is the case.

[Seth Mandel]

So it's a national security risk. Can we just state that? I mean, obviously, national security risk, foreign.

[Jon Horowitz]

Influence, everything, you know, improper foreign influence, the destruction of our universities, the corruption of our elites, all of that. This is like gold. It's gold, Jerry. And then he goes off and levies, you know, a 275,000% tariff on Lesotho and just mucks everything up. So stop mucking things up. Go with what wins. Go with what works. Be. Be rational. Don't have the Adam Borer talking to the New York Times about how he loved having a pastry with Hamas and, like, win things. And don't make the things that you should win on look like losers because you're poisoning them with your stupid, idiot, idiotic policies that are harming the planet. And now we gotta go. So we will not have a show on Monday as it is Passover. So we will be back on Tuesday for everybody. Have a Zis and Pesach. I hope. I hope all. All is the family enjoyed. And you have a Seder so thrilling that you stay up all night arguing like the rabbis in B'nai Brock and that you have to. Someone has to come and tell you that it's time for the morning prayers. And yes, I'm so pious today, it's crazy. That's a reference to a minor moment in the. In the Passover G. Anyway, for Christine, Abe and Seth, I'm John. Pod words, keep the camel burn.