The Commentary Magazine Podcast

Episode: Charlie Kirk and the Turning Point
Date: September 11, 2025

Episode Overview

This urgent and somber episode of The Commentary Magazine Podcast is dedicated to making sense of the aftermath of the assassination of Charlie Kirk, the 31-year-old conservative activist and founder of Turning Point USA. Recorded on September 11th, the conversation is colored by the resonance with the 9/11 attacks, as the hosts reflect on the implications for American society, political violence, social media, and the nation’s collective psyche. Panelists include John Podhoretz (host/editor), Abe Greenwald (executive editor), Seth Mandel (senior editor), Matthew Continetti (Washington columnist), Christine Rosen (social commentary columnist), and Noah Rothman (author and former Commentary staffer), who has written extensively on political violence.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Assassination of Charlie Kirk: Immediate Impact

• Signal Event: Kirk’s killing is described as a watershed moment for American civil society, representing not just the loss of a political activist but an attack on free society and open debate.
  • “It was an attack on the free society.” (Matthew Continetti, 06:02)
• Chilling Effect: Discussion about how the event is already forcing the curtailment of freedoms, like public speech events moving indoors for security.
  • “This is going to be yet another moment at which certain types of freedoms are going to end up having to be curtailed for safety reasons.” (John, 05:05)
• Connection to 9/11: The symbolic resonance of the date and what it means for a shaken America.

2. The Role of Social Media and the Spread of Violence

• Immediate Circulation: The murder video was instantly posted and shared on social media, with both a numbing and dehumanizing effect.
  • “Within five seconds of the shooting of Charlie Kirk, I saw footage of the murder... It's a snuff film.” (John, 08:21)
• Toxic Reactions and Disinformation: Alongside genuine horror, some on social media celebrated Kirk’s death, made jokes, or spread conspiracy theories.
  • “A lot of people on the left celebrated the fact that he was shot. And that is horrifying.” (Christine, 10:53)
• Broader Implications: Reflecting on what 9/11 would have looked like in the social media age.
  • “Had there been social media on 9/11... all of that stuff that was kind of in the noxious subculture would have been right out in front of us.” (John, 09:45)

3. The Political and Ideological Roots of Violence

• Academic Radicalization: The panel identifies rising violence as stemming from ideological radicalization, particularly on college campuses.
  • “College campuses have become petri dishes of nihilism and radicalism... real fascism in this country.” (Matthew Continetti, 06:38)
• Multiple Targets, Omni-Cause Violence: Recent acts against healthcare executives and others show the broadening of acceptable targets by leftist radicals.
  • “There’s a broadening of targets... a growing list of leftist, exotic, violent political ideologies.” (Seth, 31:53)
• Political Response: Politicians’ rhetorical justifications (“but” statements) cited as providing dangerous solace for radicals.
  • “Elizabeth Warren, Chris Murphy, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, all of them deployed the very loaded butt...” (Noah, 15:51)

4. Personal Reflections on Charlie Kirk’s Legacy

• Influence on Youth: Kirk as a key figure for Gen Z conservatives, moving from meme politics to advocacy for open debate and against antisemitism.
• Growth and Change: His supporters note his maturation and willingness to stand up for Israel, even against surging anti-Israel sentiment in parts of the right.
  • “He decided to make his stand and pitch his tent... on the side of the righteousness and justice of Israel’s cause.” (John, 36:21)
• Personal Stories: Panelists reflect on their first impressions, regrets, and interactions with Kirk, drawing out his complexity and character.
  • “I want to mention another injustice that I did to Charlie Kirk that I deeply regret...” (John, 36:21)
  • “He had a specific way of talking about it from a non-Jewish perspective to other non Jews, that was extraordinarily valuable.” (Abe, 41:10)

5. Broader Context: Cycles of Political Violence in America

• Historical Echoes: Panelists draw parallels with past waves of political assassinations (JFK, RFK, MLK, 1960s-1980s), noting previous cycles of violence.
  • “We had this almost 20 year spasm of political violence aimed at people at the very top. And then ... it ended. Nobody knows why.” (John, 61:04)
• Societal Response: How past societies have responded—sometimes by rallying, other times by retreating or paving the way for authoritarian responses.
  • “The end result, as Matt said, is top down authoritarianism, not anarchy and chaos. Somebody will come in and clean things up in some fashion in a way that will be very un-American.” (John, 103:57)

6. The Role of Culture and the Glorification of Violence

• Hollywood and Pop Culture: Films and media increasingly normalize revolutionary violence against perceived oppressors.
  • “Culture is making the world safe for the idea that it is okay to parlay political violence as long as the violence is against people we don’t like.” (John, 46:38)
• Collapse of Civic Ideals: The dehumanization and nihilism fostered by both academic and pop cultural trends are seen as symptoms and drivers of violence.
  • “It’s dehumanizing. And it starts, I think, in the universities... then it’s present in the culture.” (Christine, 46:38)

7. Political and Social Fallout

• Security vs. Freedom: The panel debates the balance between increasing security and maintaining open civil society.
• Division and Lack of Consensus: The inability to come together, even for moments of silence in Congress, underscores deep national fractures.
  • “Big contrast to what happened on the floor of the House of Representatives...” (Christine, 89:38)
• Uncertain Future: Panelists express pessimism about the near future, with concerns that violence might breed further violence, and agree that even a small radical minority can upend society.
  • “You can't uncross a Rubicon... you get a dictator, not a right libertarian city-state.” (Abe, 103:57)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Spreading of Violence via Social Media
  “Within five seconds of the shooting of Charlie Kirk, I saw footage of the murder... It's a snuff film.”

  • John Podhoretz [08:21]

• On What the Assassination Means
  “It was an attack on the free society.”

  • Matthew Continetti [06:02]

• On the Change in Civic Culture
  “No one should get mugged. No one should, you know, be in a school shooting. But what are you gonna do? How can you stop it? You can't stop it. And we don't know how to stop it and we don't know how to stop these things.”

  • John Podhoretz [101:27]

• On the Political Division and Congress’s Response
  “If politics is downstream from culture... what would be important is if the politicians did a little more of what the Yankees did last night and a lot less of what they did in that eruption on the House floor.”

  • Christine Rosen [93:17]

• On the Broader Danger
  “It doesn't take a very large minority of people who believe that killing is good and cleansing and righteous to destroy life for the majority...if there are a few thousand Americans so inclined to ideological violence, that's more than enough to destroy everything.”

  • Seth Mandel [86:58]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Assassination, Immediate Response, and Social Media: [05:05] – [12:43]
• The Attack on Free Society and College Campuses: [06:02] – [07:46]
• Broader Context of Political Violence: [15:38] – [32:57]
• Charlie Kirk’s Legacy, Influence, and Stance on Antisemitism: [30:10] – [43:45]
• Culture, Media, and the Glorification of Violence: [46:38] – [58:12]
• Historical Waves of Violence: [60:48] – [64:49]
• Presidential Response, National Fracture, and Uncertainty: [64:49] – [71:04]
• Panel’s Outlook on the Future, Fear of Further Division: [95:58] – [104:11]

Tone and Language

The discussion is urgent, reflective, and at times elegiac. There are moments of personal confession, sorrow, and regret, particularly regarding perceptions of Charlie Kirk and anxieties over America’s direction. There is also an undercurrent of fear—both for the future and the potential for a cycle of retaliatory violence. The participants speak as friends, colleagues, and as keepers of the public trust, mourning not just a man but a moment, and what it may foretell.

Conclusion

This episode grapples intensely with what the assassination of Charlie Kirk means for America—with particular focus on the intersection of political radicalization, social media, and cultural change. The hosts agree that the threat is not just to individuals, but to the entire fabric of American civil society. While there are small glimmers of hope—a unifying moment at a Yankees game, perhaps—the panel is clear-eyed about the dangers ahead, calling for both vigilance and a reaffirmation of the values that once held the country together.