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- [00:01]
A
Fox News is now streaming live on Fox 1. When it matters most, turn to the voices you trust. We go beyond the headlines, bringing you the stories you won't hear anywhere else. Live coverage, sharp analysis, real perspective at home or on the go. Stay connected when it counts. Stream Fox News on Fox 1. Download today.
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B
Hope for the best, expect the worst. Some drink champagne, some die at first no way of knowing which way it's going. Hope for the best, expect the worst. Welcome to the Commentary Magazine daily podcast. Today. Today is Thursday, March 5th, 2026. I'm Jon Van Horticz, the editor of Commentary magazine. With me, as always, executive editor Abe Greenwald. Hi, Abe. Hi, John. Social Commentary columnist Christine Rosen. Hi, Christine.
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C
Hi, John.
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B
Senior editor Seth Mandel. Hi, Seth.
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A
Hi, John.
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B
And Washington Free Beacon editor Eliana Johnson. Hi, Eliana.
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D
Hi, John.
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B
I got through an entire introduction without making a mistake. This is the first time in a week I'm very excited. One thing I wanted announced because people have been noticing if you are a subscriber and you should be a subscriber to Commentary and you get our monthly magazine, you may notice a difference in this issue as it hits your mailbox, which is that we have done a little bit of a redesign so your, your, your eyes are not deceiving you. Something is a little different. We have increased the point size of the type in the magazine. I've been getting emails about this all and texts for two days now. And I didn't put a note in the magazine about it. So I'm telling you now and I'm going to tell you why I did it. And it's a very sad story. And the story is that it was becoming increasingly difficult for me. I have lousy eyes. I've had bad eyes since I was like 9 years old. And my eyes are getting worse. I don't mean like I'm going to go blind or I have macular degeneration or anything, but my eyes are getting worse. And it's been increasingly difficult for me to read Commentary on paper because of the fact that the type was 9 1/2 point size in our typeface. MILLER and so we experimented with five or six different point sizes. We've gone up a couple of points. So the text is bigger in the magazine, the articles are the same length, nothing is different. But if you see a difference, that is the difference. And it's largely driven by the fact that I feel like I should be able to read the magazine physically that I am producing for our readers and, and therefore assuming that I am Kind of like a mid level or sort of median reader. The type needed to get bigger. So the type is now bigger. That's what's going on. And now we can talk about anti Semitism. By the way, one other note. At some point during this podcast, my sister, Ruthie Bloom, columnist for the Jewish News Syndicate, host of the podcast called Israel Undiplomatic, is going to join us again, as she did over the weekend, to give us an on the ground report from Tel Aviv about what life has been like over the last 124 hours or so since the war started. She was supposed to join us at the beginning, but as is part of the story, she is right now in the shelter because there was a, there was an alert and a warning and the siren went off and she had to leave her apartment and go next door into the basement to the shelter. So she will describe some of that at the time. So this anti Semitism surge that was around for 10 years before October 7, but of course accelerated wildly after October 7, has now morphed into a different direction. And the different direction is direct engagement and involvement in the Democratic Party's political process and the choices that Democratic politicians seem to be making as they look forward not only to the 2026 elections and to the primaries that they are still going to engage in in 2026, but also to 2028. And Seth Mandel, you've been covering this a lot for the blog, and we have sort of two major possible contenders in 2028, Ruben Gallego and Gavin Newsom, who have in the last three or four days done some pretty startling things. That one would have seemed unimaginable even 12 months ago, oddly enough. So can you tell us a little about what that is?
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A
Sure, yeah, I agree. It would have been unthinkable, especially for Gavin Newsom, who, you know, is a bit of a weather vane. So he's valuable insofar as it tells you the direction that things are going. So Gavin Newsom, the governor of California, decided that he would go on the Pod Save America podcast, which is the former Obama advisors and speech writers, the popular, you know, sort of left wing podcast. And they've become this kind of, they've become the kind of place where you go and you have to bash Israel. It's, it's just, you know, they sort of give you that bullhorn. And Newsom did so, feeling that he had to keep up with the rest of his party, which is very quickly moving further and in more extreme ways against Israel. And the thing that he was playing catch up from was Ruben Gallego, who's an Arizona senator who is testing the waters for a presidential run in 2028, officially endorsed Graham Platner. We talked about him just the other day. Otherwise known as Nazi tattoo guy. And. And so Gallegos is running for senator
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B
in Maine in a pr. He is wildly ahead in this primary against the sitting governor, Janet Mills in the Democratic primary. And he is. Not only does he have a Nazi tattoo, but he is a far left wing Bernie Sanders is a little too conservative for him type. So he has not only got a Nazi and he recently
- [06:58]
A
went on an anti Semite podcast and told him he was a longtime fan. He retweeted approvingly. Stu Peters, who I've written about, but I don't know people really know him very well, but he is a white nationalist, you know, another sort of alternative podcaster on the right and Gavin Newsom is now going on another show that he's going on a it left podcaster show.
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B
But we should tell people, tell people what Newsom.
- [07:28]
A
So Newsom's big moment was he went on Pod Save America after Gallego endorsed Platner and he put his finger to the wind and he went on Positive America. And they said, don't you think it's time to cut military aid to Israel? And Newsom essentially said, yes. He said, it breaks my heart. You know, you could see that. You could see it in his eyes. It breaks his heart. But he, he feels that Bibi Netanyahu is making it unavoidable and this is where we're headed. And later in the interview, that's not the.
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B
Yeah, go ahead, go ahead.
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E
Yeah.
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A
And then also in the interview, also in the interview was, was he said that, you know, he brought up Tom Friedman's recent column and he said that people like Tom Friedman who call Israel an apartheid are doing so justly and understand there. So essentially he's calling Israel an apartheid state and saying, yes, we're going to have to cut military cooperation with Israel.
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F
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B
Right. So the governor of the largest state in the country, who is viewed as one of the top two or three candidates as we look at the field right now, has said explicitly that Israel is an apartheid state and by the way, is also questioning our conduct of the war and Israel's conduct of the war by saying that we are committing war crimes. We need to reconcile the fact that our bombs are being used to blow up Iranian schoolgirls. He said of an incident that we still don't quite understand what happened. There's a school. It seems to have been a school. Supposedly 57 schoolgirls were killed. There's something weird about this story. The school seems to be cheek by jowl with a nuke, with a nuclear facility or, or an air force base. And it was a. It was not a school day. So there's something fishy about the whole thing. And we don't know who hit what or whether it was a misfire. What we know is right, nobody knows. And he basically endorsed the idea that an American bomb had been used by Israel to kill Iranian school children. So he is saying Israel's an apartheid state. He's saying we need to revisit our financial commitment to Israel and that Israel is committing war crimes with American bombs. And he is supposedly the establishment candidate for 2020 moderates.
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A
Here's your moderate.
- [10:43]
B
I don't even know if people would call him a moderate per se, because I don't know that moderate fits in these categories anymore. But he is certainly, as the guy who is the governor of the largest state of the country, he is like. And a slick guy, right? His whole thing is that he's slick and polished and very performative in trying to make himself appealing to the widest number of people, has decided to jump into the fever swamp.
- [11:15]
C
It's interesting, isn't it? I think the weathervane term that Seth used is accurate for Newsom. He doesn't seem to have any core principles and that does make him an interesting person to follow on the national stage right now with regard to anti Semitism because he wasn't using words like apartheid or genocide or, or any of the terms that he's now liberally sprinkling around all these right wing podcasts. And that suggests that he, in his effort to elevate his national visibility, he sees that as necessary for the base. And I recall how for decades now we've been schooled largely by legacy media about looking for all the dog whistling on the right that suggests racism or sexism or Whatever ism is being disapproved of at the time. And I think there is some similarity here on the left now with regard to anti Semitism. All of these terms are used with a deliberately knowing wink for a group of people, all the podcast guys. But I think actually a lot of Gen Z voters in the Democratic and Progressive coalition to signal. Now, I might have said this stuff about Israel in the past. It might be technically our ally, but wink, wink. You know what I'm talking about when I talk about apartheid or genocide.
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B
Do you think that there's a. Do you think there's a wink? I don't even know that that goes. That that qualifies.
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C
There used to be a wink. Now, I guess it's like.
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B
It's like giant flags are being waved. Pay attention to me. I am willing to say very outlandish things about Israel in order to get your attention and support in one of the two major American political parties.
- [12:52]
D
I. This is noteworthy in the sense of it tells you where the Democratic base is. But we already knew that, right? I think this is gonna be difficult for Newsom to pull off in that the Democratic primary is gonna feature the genuine article. There are gonna be people who have been consistent on their view of hating Israel. And they're going to point out that Newsom was not long ago a pro Israel Democrat. And he's on the record having visited Israel on October 20, 2023, and spoken of the wonderful people he met and talked about the deep connections between California and Israel. And by the way, Bibi Netanyahu was the prime minister of Israel at that time. They were under the same leadership. He took heat in California for vetoing an ethnic studies mandate that was put up by the legislature because of concerns voiced by critics of its treatment of Israel and Jews. And he is on the record having praised a memorandum of understanding passed by his, Signed by his predecessor, deepening ties between California and Israel. His predecessor is Jerry Brown. And so Newsom's record doesn't sustain what he's saying now. It's obvious what he's doing. And Gallego, by the way, was a member. Oh, hi, Ruthie.
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B
Hi, Ruthie.
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D
I'll finish my point quick. Yes, Gallego was a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus. He actually does come from this camp who ditched the Progressive Caucus when he ran for Senate because Arizona is a more centrist state. And he claimed at the time, oh, they're increasing dues. You know, he wasn't honest about his reasons why. And he's someone who's actually returning to once, you know, from where he came. But these guys are all dishonest and they're going to have to face up to the, you know, the AOCs of she run and the Bernie Sanders wing of the party have been entirely consistent on this stuff.
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B
Okay, we're going to get back to this. Excited to get back to this, but Ruthie Blum, my sister columnist with jns, co host of the Israel Undiplomatic podcast with her friend Mark Regev, which everybody should subscribe to, joining us from Tel Aviv. You were supposed to start with us at 9:30 Eastern and the alert came and you had to go next door into your shelter, which is one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you today for many reasons but and I talk to every day. And one of the things that has happened over the last 120, you know, 24 hours or whatever it's been since the war started is these texts coming over our family WhatsApp chat going back in the shelter. Oi. I just got back from Jerusalem and now I have to go into the shelter back again. Four o' clock in the morning, two o' clock in the morning, 2 o' clock in the afternoon, 6 o' clock in the afternoon. The shelter, the disruption of life by this war, the civilian disruption of life. So significant that and I want to try to get, make draw this little picture. Your daughter, my niece Avital, lives near Jerusalem. Her husband is in the reserves, so he's not there. She has a five year old and a two year old, four year old, two year old, five year old.
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E
Five and two.
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B
Yeah, five and two. Okay. And during the, during the Gaza war when she was living elsewhere and not near Jerusalem and he was in the reserves, she would have to, when there was a siren, she would have to. And her 2 year old was a newborn, she would have to run at 1:00 clock in the morning out of her house, you know, to get into the shelter and you have a 90 second warning. And so this was, you know, this was her life and it was starting up again because she doesn't have a safe room in her house and the shelter is a little nearby. And so for the purposes of living a life in which she could get two hours of sleep, she went north. She went to three miles from the border in Lebanon to her in law's house. Because getting to the shelter is easier.
- [17:23]
E
No, she can sleep in the shelter. That's the whole point.
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B
She can sleep in the shelter, excuse
- [17:28]
E
me, and sleep through the night, not have to run when There was a siren, they could just stay there.
- [17:34]
B
But so as we know now, the war has expanded to include Lebanon and Hezbollah and all of that. So she essentially drove into the war zone in order to get some sleep. This is, this is what life is like during this three way war between Israel, Iran and, and, and the United States. So how has it been for. Just describe, like, are you, are you like zoned out? Are you like exhausted? Are you nervous? What?
- [18:14]
E
Yeah, not nervous. I gotta tell you, I think everybody's sort of used to it. Some people are nervous. When you hear that siren, it's very, it's sort of scary even when you know it's coming in, even though you're used to it, because the noise is very disconcerting. But I would say most people are very cheerful here and like Israelis tend to do, they're all leaving the shelters before the all clear is, you know, final because they say, okay, we've had enough, we're going. And, But I'll tell you something interesting. There are many apps that have been created since Saturday. The latest is something that calculates for you. You type in how, where you are in Israel and it'll tell you how many hours so far total you have spent in the bomb shelter.
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B
It's like the online. It's like the thing where it says you've been eight hours today on your
- [19:04]
C
phone or how many steps did you take today to the shelter.
- [19:08]
E
Yes, I have so far, maybe this last siren, I don't know, have been 15 hours total in the bomb shelter. But also there's another one. There's an app that tells you where there are singles, single people in which bomb shelters. So singles can hook up in the bomb shelters. And then there's a third, but this is more of a joke, except everybody's talking about it, that tells you what the risk is at a given hour of the day to take a shower because the last thing you want is to be caught like with shampoo on your hair and have to rush out and get dressed and all that. So I mean, those are the kind of things that are going on. There's a lot of joking going on also. And so it's not scary, but it is exhausting when you lack sleep like that. And you know, so I, for example, won't sleep in my bed. I sleep on the couch because I'm afraid to get to fall too deeply asleep. And then I'm afraid I won't wake up in time. So that's, that's what it feels like.
- [20:13]
G
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- [22:21]
B
Okay, so the other thing to point out here is that when, if you describe this to an American, right, They're like, oh my God, this is hell on earth. Oh dear God. Like, how can people live like this? You know, people are constantly emailing about, texting about you, texting me about you. I can't imagine what you're going through. I can't imagine what you're going through knowing that you're family is like this. But not only your family, but the. Pretty much the entire nation is wildly supportive of this war. And so if the civilian sacrifice in this war, aside from having family who are in the reserves, is. And obviously the occasional hit, I mean, the sort of. The hit in Beth Shemesh and others, which are, of course, lead to tragic loss of life, but people are not begrudging the effect. Like, this is something for two decades, you have almost, unlike on Palestinian matters, you have an almost total national consensus that this is good and just and necessary and in fact, possibly kind of whatever the adjective would be for salvation.
- [23:41]
C
Can I add that this is. This is something Americans should really note, which is that Israelis have lived next door to an existential threat to the nation and the people's existence for a very long time. And, Ruthie, the fact that you can talk about the humor and like the hilarious apps that are developed, that is exactly the kind of metal m E T T L E that Americans too rarely understand or demonstrate ourselves because. Because we have not been tested in quite the same way. And I think it's admirable, obviously, nerve wracking for those of us who have friends and loved ones. If you get the app here and you can see where the alarms are of a friend with a child in Jerusalem, that's also very terrifying to track. But the resilience and the humor and the sensibility is just completely admirable, and I salute it. I just think more Americans should recognize that resilience, too.
- [24:33]
E
Well, maybe it's because.
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C
What?
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E
Yeah, well, I was gonna. First of all. First of all, you're right, John. Everybody here supports this. You know, maybe there are a few people who don't, and there are a few Arab Israelis who don't, let's say. But in general, everybody is for this. So what do they do? What are the Israelis who are on the left who hate Netanyahu? Do they champion Trump? This has been happening all along, and it was during the hostage crisis as well. The way you can support the move is to say, well, it's not really Netanyahu. Netanyahu is just, you know, he's lucky he has Trump, and he's only doing things because an election is coming up. So you have this funny situation where Trump is the rock,
- [25:24]
B
right? Okay, so. So you got. So you don't have the ordinary political divide. What you're talking about is happening here. That is to say, because Trump's a rock star there. It's fine. Here. The polling continues to track Trump's approval rating. If you approve of Trump, you approve of the war. If you disapprove of Trump, you disapprove of the war, except for 12 podcasters who are in the pay of the Qataris, who are themselves, by the way, now approving the war because the Qataris are now shooting at Iran. So you know when this afternoon, the entire politics of podcast bros may change when their paymasters start telling them to shift their tone. But I digress. Or do I? But this idea, in other words, there is. There is from again, maybe Arab Israelis not. But like everyone, there's going to be a. There is going. There's an election coming in the fall and there are, I don't know, six or seven serious candidates for prime minister and everyone's on board. Imagine, just stop for a minute here. Israel is as fractious a country as the United States. And people in Israel hate Bibi the way people in America hate Trump. Enormous numbers of people hate Bibi in almost exactly the same way. And yet imagine a country in which everybody comes together on this one thing. Like we, we can't even imagine that. I don't think there's no way for us to even conceive of America having that kind of unity any longer.
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E
And it doesn't even feel like unity here. That's the funny part, in a way, okay, in the public it does, because
- [27:10]
B
real unity means that you don't feel it. In other words, it's like breathing. Unity is like gravity exists, you know, okay, yeah, right.
- [27:21]
E
But alongside this. So you have the Attorney general who is really, you know, we're trying to fire her since. Since the get go, and she just says, no, sorry. I mean, we have this judicial system here that is really draconian and runs the country. And in the middle of this with missiles flying, she says, okay, now it's time to say that Itamar Ben gvir, the public national security Minister, has to be fired. So that's the insane politics going on that is fractured. But the funny part here is that it doesn't work. I mean, when you hear politicians saying, when you heard three weeks ago when Netanyahu flew to Washington to meet with Trump and he only went with two people, he didn't go with his whole entourage. And they, oh, he's just trying to get Trump to force the President of Israel to give him a pardon, he was there planning this operation, this war. And you know, do you hear any of them saying, oops, we were wrong? No. So they're falling all over themselves to try to figure out how to support this, which they do, but also to attack Netanyahu. And one of the ways they're doing it is saying, oh, he's taking credit for this, but then he should take blame for October 7th.
- [28:39]
B
Right. Okay, but that's politics. I'm saying socially, you have a socially cohesive country that believes, unlike people in the United States, that Iran poses an existential threat to Israel, and that the destruction of the Iranian regime is a necessary step for Israel to secure its safety in the 21st century. And that is expressing an opinion otherwise would be the controversial opinion in Israel. Whether or not you like Bibi or you don't like Bibi or you want Ben GVIR fired and all of that, it doesn't matter who would be the prime minister or whatever. This is what they would. Everybody would believe. So it makes the shelter stuff. It's not like, why are we doing during COVID when a lot of Americans started to lose faith in the public health apparatus and what it was telling us about what was going on, nonetheless, we had to adhere to all of these draconian rules and principles in Zoom school and this and that. And there was this horrible cognitive dissonance, which is, I'm doing all this because it's how you do things now. But I don't believe it. I don't believe my children are at
- [29:54]
G
risk from getting Covid.
- [29:55]
B
I don't believe that it's as dangerous as it was. I don't believe that Rents should be suspended because of this. I don't believe in all of this stuff, but you kind of have to go along with it because it's the. Because it's being imposed on you from above. And that is just. That's where this mission, which you would think it's very dangerous, missiles are flying at Israel, all of that, but there's none of that.
- [30:23]
E
Correct?
- [30:23]
B
Right.
- [30:23]
E
Absolutely correct.
- [30:25]
B
That's right.
- [30:26]
E
So I was just gonna say, you know, maybe if Americans. You know, I was thinking the American military, the people who serve in the US Military are gung ho. They seem to be gung ho about this. They're really good about their mission. They're doing amazing things. The fact that most Americans did not serve in the military and most and often Israelis do, other than, you know, accept certain exceptions, I think makes a big difference. There is a sense here of you're taking part in something that is necessary. And when you. You know, John, when I was growing up in America, I didn't know any soldiers. Okay. Like, that was.
- [31:05]
B
No, you knew a lot of draft dodgers. You knew a lot of draft dodgers and supporters and supporters of the North Vietnamese.
- [31:16]
C
Okay, I want to follow but maybe that's another podcast.
- [31:22]
E
Exactly. But anyway, that's the point. And so I'm wondering if, you know, as I said, America, I can understand why many Americans who don't even know who the vice president is, let's face it, the ignorance among many Americans is really shocking. So to expect them to understand the nature of the Iranian threat is going too far. I mean, I am sometimes I'm just shocked by the level of ignorance about the world and about America itself. And, you know, you ask college students, when was the civil war? And they don't know. I mean, how can they understand what's going on in Iran?
- [32:01]
B
Right? Okay, so let's. Now, this is something that you do. You don't just write about Israel. You write about Jewish life and you do write about America and you write about the threat of anti Semitism. And we were talking before you joined about the Democratic Party's shift in which the Democratic Party is now moving toward explicit, near explicit anti Zionism as represented by leading candidates for president, you know, testing out the Israel as an apartheid state message, which is fundamentally anti Zionist.
- [32:38]
G
Right.
- [32:38]
B
I mean, in the end, if you think that Israel is an apartheid state, Israel does not deserve to be supported and should not exist in its current configuration because apartheid is evil, and it's therefore institutionally and structurally evil. You can't say one without the logic being that Israel is. Israel does not have a right to exist in its current form. You would need some kind of regime change to term of the moment to. To get Israel to stop being the apartheid state. And if you have two major candidates, at least so far for president testing out this message, it. They believe that this is what they need to do to win a majority, you know, to win the nomination for. For the presidency or to win primaries in 2026. John, can I just interrupt there to say, you know, there are still people out there on the left, and this
- [33:36]
A
is part of why this is happening. You see them on social media all
- [33:39]
B
the time who argue that Kamala lost and that Biden would have lost because they let down their base by supporting, quote, the genocide. That. That. Well, there's a line. There's a line that there is a document somewhere, right? Eliano? There is a document somewhere in the. In the Democratic National Committee's headquarters that is under super secret lock and key in a, you know, in a room that you have to use an eye scanner to get into that shows that Kamala lost because the dnc, it's like the autopsy. It's the autop.
- [34:24]
D
The Democratic autopsy There is an Axios report indicating that top Democratic officials who worked on the party's still secret autopsy concluded that Harris lost significant support because of the administration's approach to the war in Gaza. So it's not even clear if this is in the report. It says the officials who worked on the report found this and it's the Jews fault that Harris lost.
- [34:57]
B
So this is interesting. And I mean it's the Plato's Cave problem that the Republican Party has always had, which is and John, can I
- [35:08]
D
just say, yeah, this is about probably about as credible as the Reince Priebus led RNC autopsy that found that the Republicans just didn't do enough on immigration reform to win in 2012.
- [35:25]
G
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- [36:47]
B
Look, I'm like you.
- [36:49]
G
I have too many logins. I have too many passwords.
- [36:51]
B
If I want to shop for something
- [36:53]
G
at a store I've already used and I go there and I know I have a login and it's going to store all my information that I can't remember did I use this email or did I use that email? Did I use this name that I use or did I use another? And then of course I Have no idea what the password is.
- [37:07]
B
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- [38:27]
B
Right? Okay, if it's, if it's even true, like, we don't, we don't know if it's true. But when I say I would believe
- [38:34]
D
that they would argue this and believe this, right?
- [38:37]
B
I'm saying the fact, whether or not there is data to support it, I mean there's, if you really were going to run data like that and try to regret regression analysis, I believe they believe it. Okay, Right.
- [38:47]
D
But that's what believes they believe it. Gallego believes they believe it.
- [38:51]
B
You know, in 2019, everybody in the Democratic Party knew that the way to win was to go insanely left. And there were 19 candidates in that race. And they were talking about, you know, how much how to make health care single payer and how to, I mean, I can't even remember the set of issues that these debates that the Democrats had where they were all like scrambling to get to each other's left, right? Were, you know, like ticking off a box. It was classic early social media domination of politics stuff where they were all online and they all thought that everything online was real life and all of that. And Biden sort of stood there and said, no, I'm not gonna add, I'm not gonna tax at a special tax for billionaires. No, we can't have this kind of health care. No. You know, I'm just going to be like, I'm very left wing, but I'm not crazy like you, Elizabeth Warren. And he won. Right. So similarly, Republicans in 2008 and 2012, particularly 2012, kept getting pushed to the right, like having to pay fealty to conservative groups and their issues. And they're all broken up into, you know, this issue about guns, this issue about abortion, this issue about health care, this issue on, you know, bathrooms, on, you know, whether bathrooms should be. Could be mixed gender and stuff like that. And all that stuff meant people were going to these debates and ticking off boxes to satisfy constituencies that a lot of Americans were like, I don't know what you people are even talking about. And that's what happens in this atomized atmosphere. My hope is. Yeah, go ahead.
- [40:58]
D
Yeah, go ahead, Christine.
- [41:00]
C
I was just going to add that the difference with anti Semitism now is that in the 18 to 34 year old demographic in this country, it is quite culturally rooted on the right and the left now in those very online 18 to 34 year old populations. So we just. There's just a story out of Miami about the county GOP having a WhatsApp chat group among, reaching out to college students in Florida to get them to, you know, support Republican candidates and whatnot. And it, it devolves into this esoteric Nazi nightmare of a great group chat. This has happened among so, and this is. So this is going on on the left and the right. And that's what concerns me about anti Semitism. Compared to some of the clear differences in policy and opinion on things like transgender and men and women's sports, there you have very clear divides, right versus left. But the anti Semitism is a through line, unfortunately, now in this younger demographic on both sides of the aisle.
- [41:52]
B
Right. My hope, though, the only, the only hope that I have about this is that it is a wild overestimation of the importance of this issue relative to other issues to vote to actual voters. And that we look at these politicians and we think, well, they know what they're doing. They're spending tens of millions of dollars on research and polling and focus groups, and they know what's pushing people's buttons. But then when we learn what happens when these campaigns fail, it turns out that the campaign manager is spending 14 hours a day on Twitter and is in fact. Or the candidate and is in fact being consciously guided by that mood. Like we knew, for example, that the DeSantis campaign, which probably didn't really have a chance, but there was given everything that happened with Trump and the indictments and things like that after 2021. But you know, DeSantis and Trump were like neck and neck and that DeSantis kept making these weird mistakes because he had ceded his public messaging to very online folk in his communication shop who thought that Twitter was real life and so weren't talking about anything that actual real people cared about. And that's one of the weird things about anti Semitism. And you can talk about it and 18 to 34 year olds are anti Semitic and that's awful and everything. But again, don't they, they also want to buy a house and it's too expensive. Like is anti Semitism a tenth as important to them as the price of as rent or their mortgage? I doubt it.
- [43:34]
A
Well, that's, I mean that's the question is whether the messaging that is the art, your money is going to Israel is going to resonate. That's why that particular talking point is used and why that particular talking points effect has to be tracked, which is, you know, like yesterday Marjorie Taylor Greene said, you know, oh, we're spending a billion dollars a day to help Israel fight a regime change war in Iran and you don't have health care like that. That is the message. If that is getting through to people, then they're making the connection between I can't buy a house and I hate the Jews. Like that's the, blame the Jews for virtually everything. And that's what Mamdani utilized. Also remember that, that video, that clip of Mamdani a couple of years ago came out where he said, you know, you have to be able to explain to people that when the, when the, the NYPD boot is on your neck, that boot has been laced by the idf, right? And he was explaining like, here's how you make it all about Israel and make everything about Israel and you know, for, find a way to connect it all and blame the Jews. So that's, that's, that's the, that's the sort of nexus point that really can make convince people even though somewhere deep inside they must know that Israel's not the reason they can't buy a house. You hope that somewhere they, they have this like, you know, spidey sense of this alarm that's going off. Saying like this sounds like a logical fallacy, but it's getting buried by all the, you know, the online noise.
- [45:09]
C
But it's a very dangerous cultural and political and historical moment in this country when the kind of nihilism is expressed through this anti Semitism. I think that's what you're describing, Seth. They don't feel, they don't think that there's a cynicism that can curdle into nihilism about our institutions, about our politics. And when it starts to become expressed through antisemitism as a shared understanding, that can become quite dangerous, not just for Jews, but for an entire society. And I think that that's the point where we're not there yet. But that common language and the fact that it is bipartisan now is, is, is something that I think we should be, continue to be worried about.
- [45:46]
B
I mean, I'm, I'm terrified about it. I'm, I'm, I'm. I mean, aside from everything else, I'm heartsick about it. You know, we could sit here for days and say we told you so. You know, like last 30 years we've been saying, you know, Democrats are going back. Jesse Jackson just died last week. Jesse Jackson was the harbinger, was the harbinger of this move on the part of the Democratic Party when he ran for president, that the intersectionality that he basically gave birth to, right, the Rainbow coalition idea. That idea has two faces, right? That they're all minority groups are oppressed in the same way depending on where they are or who they are. Except for the Jews. Jews aren't part of the Jews who make up 0.2% of the population of the planet Earth and 2% of population United States don't constitute minority group. They are part of the oppressor class and the, and the, and the colonial class. And that idea birthed in the 1980s by Jesse Jackson and then academically by Kimberle Crenshaw and others and Commentary and various other publications including the Weekly Standard, which I saw. And what the Free Beacon has been doing since the Free Beacon started. We have been sounding the alarm bell about the left and anti Semitism and campuses and all of that for almost two generation. So I could say I told you so, but even so, you know, I don't want to say I told you so because I don't want it to be true that the message has had this positive effect or has had this success. I still want to believe that my country is not the country that is going to take this lying down. And I don't know that it is as my point. That is, these polling, these polls and stuff like that are in part push polls intended to make people feel that everybody's turning on Israel. And they are getting that result. But you know, there was a poll there, you know, that that could be very soft, insanely soft, and could turn in a week. The way opinion about our involvement in the Middle east in 2013, when 64% of people said we should get out of the Middle east, the United States, it turned on a dime when two people got beheaded by ISIS. And then a week after the beheadings, 64% of Americans said we should go into the Middle east and destroy isis. That was one. That's literally, oh, two weeks.
- [48:39]
A
That's what's behind, that's what's behind the Gavin Newsom, our bombs are helping Israelis kill little schoolgirls in Iran type of rhetoric, right? Because if Israel, if the nexus between the way to connect your unhappiness with whatever's going on in America to the Jews, if the connecting point is Israel, then you, then the next logical step is to, you know, shine a spotlight on what that money is being used for. And so that's why, and that's why the lies come out at a blistering pace. And that's why nobody, they're so popular when they first come out that nobody even corrects themselves later on because it's like, well, everybody said the same thing. And so you can't even point at one person. You're like, hey, Gavin, remember when you said this? It turned out not to be true. Literally everybody says, oh, I read in the New York Times, whatever. But that is why the Israel stuff cannot be ignored. That's why the, you know, anti Zion, just anti Zionism stuff cannot be ignored because the fight is over Israel. Israel is what people in the United States and elsewhere are using to foment anti Semitism. So that is the battlefield we fight on.
- [50:03]
B
Just to let people know we're on a platform that records our podcast and we're having various ABEs disappeared.
- [50:11]
C
We call it Disappearing Abe Day.
- [50:14]
B
Disappearing Abe has been in and out. Ruthie is now back. I'm just saying, like we there, there are. If you're watching this on YouTube, I don't even know how the YouTube cameras work exactly. So but we are having a lot of weird instability here, like the American opinion of the Jewish people and Israel. But I do think it's striking that we're having this conversation about the Democratic Party. And of course you mentioned this horrible Republican chat group and of course the weird, you know, look smacking incelish weird, you know, closet cult of boy loving boys who hate women on the right and all of that. Who are also anti Semites. And this weird, you know, all. All that stuff going on on the right that makes us nervous. And Tucker and Megan Kelly's whoredom as she slavers after Tucker's audience. All that stuff. Meanwhile, the United States is treating Israel as though it were Great Britain in this war. The word is partner. Trump has said Israel is our partner. Hegseth has said, Israel is our partner. We are fighting this war together almost as equals. This is the closest coordination relationship that Israel and the United States have ever had and that. That America has had with a single ally in a gigantic struggle since the Second World War. Like when we fought in the Gulf wars and all that, and we had people on our side, they were on our side, but we were like 50, you know, 80% of everything that was happening. And NATO was 20%. Right. In Afghanistan, in Iraq, or 9010 or something like that. This is close to a 50, 50 split. And every morning, Hegseth says, I'm blown away by the Israelis. They're so such great partners. Look what they're doing. We're in lockstep together, all of that. And so there is an irony that the Democrats are spinning off into, you know, Nazi land while the supposed Nazi party and, you know, Trump is so terrible and he's a Nazi and all that, are, you know, basically announcing to the world that the only reliable ally that the United States has when push comes to shove and the chips are down is this 10 million person Jewish state. This tiny little place in the speck in the middle of a sea of hostility. Pretty astonishing that this is happening at the. I think it's no accident that it's happening at the same time.
- [53:18]
E
No. By the way, I would just like to add, I said to you before how Trump is experienced in Israel. Well, Hegseth, oh, my God, he might as well be Elvis because he's also handsome. And all this. It's like, wow, we need to be. This guy is amazing. And you know, also Rubio, by the way, both of them. And there is talk about how it's interesting that Trump seems to have sidelined J.D. vance in favor of Rubio, et cetera. And there's hope for that. And a lot of Israelis saying, can you imagine? Oh, my God, can you imagine if Kamala had won that election? Oh, my God, do you know where we would be right now? Oh, my God. Like that. That's the talk around.
- [54:03]
B
But.
- [54:04]
A
But we'll have his own gas station in Israel the way Elvis does.
- [54:10]
B
That's.
- [54:10]
A
That's the real Elvis test.
- [54:12]
E
He might. He might. And even get some hamburgers named after him. He might give it some, give it some time.
- [54:18]
B
Yeah. This, by the way, is one of the great tourist attractions in Israel. If you go to Israel, on the road to Jerusalem, there is a, an Elvis gas station restaurant, which I think. Is it owned by Drews? It's actually. Is it Jewish owned? Isn't it. Is it an Arab village? I think it's in, I think it was in an Arab village. Right. Am I wrong? Anyway, but you drive down the highway and there's this giant painting of Elvis. Anyway, it is worth, it's worth. Did you go? Well, it's not kosher, so you probably didn't go there, Seth.
- [54:58]
A
But we, we stopped there to get, you know, at least to get, to get the experience and to, you know, grab a, a bottle, you know, one of when I, when I went, I was on the teen group, so they still, Israel was still selling the old Coca Cola bottles with Hebrew writing on the Hebrew script. Script on it. Everybody wanted one. So that's, yeah, we killed two birds with one stone Elvis and got the Coke bottles.
- [55:21]
B
Yeah, it is, it is a hilarious, it is hilarious way station. It's like Israel's a version of one of those plate where, you know, it's like the world's largest ball of twine. You know, when you're driving across country, you know, it's like, come, come see the largest, the world's largest ball of twine or the world's largest, you know, rubber band ball or something. That's the Elvis. That's the Elvis restaurant. Okay, Eliana, this is something.
- [55:46]
E
Wait, this, I have a question for you guys about this overshoot because you get into the weeds about the midterms, et cetera. Now there are two polls, there are several polls that put Republican support for this war in the 80%. This one's 84%. That poll says, you know, Fox, CNN, all of those polls put Republican support for the war very high. Then there's another poll that says, or Reuters, I think that said only one in four Americans support the war. So I'm trying to understand what this means. Is the Republican Party really not going with the Tucker people? And what does that mean in general?
- [56:27]
B
Eliana, do you want to take that?
- [56:32]
D
So sorry, I had to look away for a second.
- [56:33]
B
Can you repeat that? So the polling says the last, I mean, obviously polls have different Results. Somewhere between 80 and 90% of people who identify as Republicans are supportive of the war.
- [56:47]
D
Yeah.
- [56:48]
B
And are not and therefore the Tucker Megan, this is a war for Mark Levin. This is how it's like. I want. Don't take my audience. I'm gonna take your audience. You know, you're not the one who's gonna get Blue Bullet coffee. I'm gonna get the Blue Bullet coffee ad or whatever that ad, Blue Rifle or whatever the hell that that advertising is. Don't you think you're gonna get that, that, that discount customer code. My customer code, Levin. Get your hands off my customer code.
- [57:24]
D
I was struck. Sorry, go ahead.
- [57:26]
B
I'm sorry, I'm just, I'm just, you know.
- [57:28]
D
No, I was struck by the results of the CNN poll, which I don't have it in front of me, so I'm repeating from memory, which is that,
- [57:36]
C
you know, 86 in 10, 6 in 10Americans disapprove.
- [57:40]
D
And of the self identified MAGA Republicans, 80 plus percent approve. The number goes down when it's just folks who identify themselves as Republican, which I think. And then as Christine said, majority of Americans disapprove, which I think underscores the president's point that he is maga. His supporters are going to support whatever he does. Number two, I think it underscores a point that Karl Rove makes in the Wall Street Journal this morning and John, that we've talked about yesterday and the day before, which is that it would behoove the president. And it does have to be the president himself, though some of his cabinet members, including the Secretary of War, Pete Hegseth and the Secretary of State have been out there to make the public case for this a little bit more than he has been doing, though he has been out there. And by the way, Steve Wykoff did quite a compelling interview with Mark Levin that hasn't gotten very much attention talking about his experience at the table with Iranian negotiators. I think the president would do well to draw attention to that. So Karl Rove makes the point and he ends with the quote, with the Abraham Lincoln quote. Without public opinion, you know, nothing can succeed with it. Nothing can, can fail. And I think that's very true. And the final point I would make on this is that if overall this is a success, public opinion will be with the president. If it's viewed to be a failure, of course public opinion will be against it. So I think there's a risk in putting too much stock in public opinion five or six days into something that is very much in the making. Like. And I think the president has been wise to make these decisions without looking at polls he's done, he has done what he thinks is right. I think that's commendable and admirable and courageous and public opinion will be shaped by the outcome of this war. And there's a whole lot of uncertainty about how things will end.
- [60:05]
C
You know, there, this is such, this is such an important point because I think the only poll that matters is, has been consistent over time for quite some time, which is that most Americans have viewed Iran as a threat, an unfriendly country, slash enemy, something like seven or eight out of ten. Those are consistent numbers. So Eliana is absolutely right that if this is a success, I think you will see that shift to, okay, we've taken care of an enemy of the United States, but I am a little concerned about it, says independent voters. I don't think this is going to be a huge midterm election issue unless it's. It continues to drag on. But those independent voters are very careful in terms of their support of Trump, even though a lot of them brought him back in in 2024. So watching, I'll watch closely those numbers because we know Maga, as you said, will be with him no matter what. Democrats will be against him no matter what. It's that, it's that broader middle that I always find worth watching.
- [61:03]
A
And they're also at a disadvantage, messaging wise, because if they're successful, we won't know the extent of this success for a while because for decades, the reason America has been pulled back into some of these conflicts in the Middle east is Iran. So a truly successful stomping of the Iranian threat would mean that in the future we don't get pulled into as many crises. We don't have to go solve as many crises. We don't have, you know, all these. And we don't have, you know, our kind of our bandwidth, our political bandwidth taken up with Middle east stuff and Iranian proxies and all that stuff. As much as we do now in the general conversation, that's not something you're going to be able the day after to say, look what we did for you. It's just the sort of thing that will have great long term benefits to America's, you know, psychiatric health.
- [61:59]
B
And we have, among other things, we have an object lesson in this, in the most unpopular thing that happened in the 21st century, supposedly, which is Trump doesn't want anyone to associate this with the Iraq War. The Iraq war was terrible, was so stupid. It was the dumbest thing we ever did. Right? Terrible. 20 years, 20, 23 years since the Iraq War began. It is hard to remember what a central figure Saddam Hussein was in the forelobe of the world's brain from about 1980 until he was deposed in 2003, a quarter century. He was one of the most important, disruptive and obsessional figures on the planet Earth. And the threat from Iraq taking over Kuwait, developing chemical weapons, was it going to. It tried to develop a nuclear weapon, and Israel took out the reactor in 1981. So Iraq was a terrible failure. Right. Does anybody think about Iraq today? Iraq sitting there, Baghdad, Basra, you know, this country sitting there in the middle, you know, next to the Levant and near Turkey and all of that. Iraq is off the world's map. It's off the consciousness. And no one is worried about Iraq. Everybody on the planet was worried about Iraq for a quarter century. Imagine 2050 when the. When the nation. Iran is not anything that we talk about or think about. I mean, or we're visiting or we're going there to the beaches or whatever.
- [63:57]
E
Right?
- [63:58]
A
We're going to. In 2050, they're going to host the. The Tehran International Film Festival, and we're going to go. Remember how we.
- [64:06]
B
Three of the world's greatest filmmakers, by the way, are Iranian. And one of the, you know, there's an Iranian dissident filmmaker currently under arrest in absentia, Jafar Banahi, who was up for an Oscar both for screenplay and for Best International Feature at the, at the Academy awards in two weeks, having won one 20 years ago. There are two other. Abbas Kirastami and others. Like this is no joke. Like, this is, you know, this is. Iran is a country that was halted in its move into the first world by this regressive revolution in 1979. I'm just saying that I will say we will be.
- [64:45]
A
And by the way, Panahi's film is on Hulu. Just.
- [64:48]
B
Just.
- [64:49]
A
You want to support Panahi and the film.
- [64:51]
B
It was just. It's on Hulu.
- [64:52]
A
So if you have a subscription, you.
- [64:54]
B
Yeah, free on Hulu. Yeah.
- [64:55]
C
I was just that we will be talking more about Iraq because we're going to be talking about the Kurds going forward and their involvement in this.
- [65:02]
B
But I just mean. I just mean geopolitically, Iraq was at the forefront of the world's conversation about geopolitics, and we took it off the map. Whatever. Whatever you say, this wasn't worth it or it was stupid. Go ahead. You go right ahead. I don't think that's true. By the fact that we. It's like, you Forgot that you had this horrible kidney stone for 25 years because you finally got it cleared out of your system. And pain, you don't have a memory of pain. And the absence of a rock from the world's brain is something that we simply now take for granted. And I think that's what Seth's analysis of what it means to win this conflict and to end Iran's international ambitions and its nuclear ambitions and its ambitions to destroy Israel would mean. So. All right, quick final, quick recommendation. Last night, out of nowhere, I watched on Netflix a movie called Sovereign, which I'd heard about. I just popped up. It was there. Turn it on at 10:30 at night. It is a. A movie about a real life event, which was this West Texas police shooting in 2010 by a father, involving a father and a son. And the father was part of the sovereign movement. That is this idea. The most famous expostulator of which was Wesley Snipes, the actor that, you know, every person is a unique sovereign unto himself in the United States. And the government has no call on your money, has no call, has no right to tax you. It has no right to make you have a driver's license. You can do whatever you want. And it's the story of the sort of this month in which this father and son descend into kind of barbarism and a nightmare as all of their ideas start to crash in on them. And. And it's really, really brilliant and devastating. It's brilliant about this world of weird. It's weird because the podcast bros, these people who use like Tucker Carlson's experts, talk in highly sounding, educated ways about the tax system and money and this and that, only everything that they're saying is gibberish and makes no sense. And every time they have to come in contact with an authority figure and explain what it is that they're doing, judges and policemen go, what are you. What are you talking about? That. You, you, you. You're. There's a person. There's a person that has your Social Security number. That's not you. That's only your strawman, but you're a real person. This is a true thing. This is a true thing that happened. Offerman is astonishing in it. The actor Jacob Tremblay, who was in Room, is his son Dennis Quaid plays a sheriff very brilliantly. It is a devastating. It's a real emotionally wrenching, devastating movie, but it is really brilliant. And, and I think it's important because as I was looking up reviews in the middle of the night when I couldn't sleep. There was a lot of effort to connect this movie to Trump and MAGA and all of this. And it's just important to note that this actually happened in 2010. The sovereign movement was very active in the early 15, 20 years ago, before Trump arose and did not. It really was very extreme. And so it's really a portrait of this thing. And you can, you can watch it without saying, unless you're, you know, a TDS movie critic who doesn't know anything about anything. You could just look at it and say, well, you know, it's obviously a portrait of MAGA and life under Trump, which, which it's not. But that's sovereign. It's on Netflix. And, and as, as, as Seth said, you can now watch this Iranian, which I have not seen, but which everyone says is brilliant. It was just an accident by Jafar Panahi. It'll be very interesting to see what happens with that at the Oscars. You would think, because Oscar voting is all this week, perversely, because, of course, the left hate, you know, the left gave a big award, you know, at the Oscars to this Gaza propaganda, Palestinian propaganda movie, no Other Land last year. You would think that they would want to maybe express support for freeing Iran from its evil tyranny by voting for Panahi's movie.
- [70:02]
G
And they're not going to because, in
- [70:03]
B
fact, they don't care about Iran and they don't care about anything except hating Israel. So that's what's going on there. Ruthie, Israel undiplomatic. You and Mark talked this week about, obviously. Gee, I wonder what you talk about this week.
- [70:21]
E
We did. And I've got to tell you, it just, I mean, in my opinion, as I tell him this all the time, he's hopelessly, he still thinks that Trump is, would prefer a deal with who? They're all dead. But anyway, that was our main argument. I said that's insane.
- [70:40]
B
And anyway, okay, anyway, so you want to hear a sprightly conversation between two Anglo Israelis, Mark, a former diplomat. Ruthie, of course, Ruthie, sharing the same Zionist views, both right of center, though Ruthie is far to the right of center, further to the right than Mark.
- [71:09]
E
Yeah, I'm not in that anyway.
- [71:11]
B
But in other words, it's a friendly conversation with disagreement. And it is great. And it's, it's, it's a must. Listen. So go subscribe to Israel Undiplomatic. And Ruthie, I'm excited that you were able to be on here for 45 minutes without being summoned back into the shelter. So at least you got 45 minutes again.
- [71:31]
E
Thank you.
- [71:32]
B
Okay, and as it happens, everyone first. Everyone else is gone but Ruthie and Seth. Abe's. Abe's Internet collapsed. Christine and Eliana had to go off to meetings. So for Seth and me, John Pot Horace, keep the kettle bur.
- [72:08]
H
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- [72:36]
E
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