The Commentary Magazine Podcast

Episode: Dems vs DHS
Date: February 10, 2026
Host: Jon Podhoretz (Editor, Commentary Magazine)
Panelists: Abe Greenwald (Executive Editor), Christine Rosen (Columnist), Seth Mandel (Senior Editor), Eliana Johnson (Editor, Washington Free Beacon)

Overview

This episode dives deeply into the ongoing congressional conflict over Department of Homeland Security (DHS) funding, with a particular focus on reforms to ICE practices, political optics, and the broader immigration debate. From there, the panel explores how these issues reflect wider trends in American politics, government dysfunction, national division, and societal malaise. The discussion ends on themes of American pessimism and mistrust in institutions, touching on the role of elite corruption (with a long digression into the Epstein scandal), the soul sickness of modern America, and what cultural narratives resonate today.

DHS Funding Standoff & Immigration Politics

[02:39 - 18:44]

The Current Situation (Eliana Johnson)

• Congress faces another possible government shutdown centered on DHS funding, specifically a deadlock over funding ICE operations in Minnesota and demands for operational reforms.
  • ICE remains funded, but other DHS agencies (TSA, etc.) are at risk.
  • Eliana: "The disagreements at this point really seem to be over whether ICE officials will remove their masks...and whether ICE should have to get judicial warrants for their operations, which would essentially grind their operations to a halt." [03:46]
• Republicans resist demands to "unmask" ICE agents (fearing doxxing and safety threats) and to require judicial warrants for ICE actions (would bog down operations and flood courts).
• Body cameras on agents have already been agreed to by both parties, with some seeing this as positive for transparency and officer exoneration.

Notable Quote:

"Should ICE have to get judicial warrants for their operations, which would essentially grind their operations to a halt...it would really delay their actions and this would flood the courts."
— Eliana Johnson [03:47]

The Masking Debate

• Christine Rosen cites Democratic comparisons to FBI practices, suggesting the jobs are not really comparable due to the higher risks ICE agents face. She is ambivalent about mask removal:
  • "The masking thing to me is tough...they are getting doxed. But it also leads to a much different approach to civilian behavior." [06:48]
• Abe Greenwald frames masking as a charged, symbolic issue for ICE critics, but concludes:

  “If they're getting doxed, it's very serious. People are going after them with intended deadly force.” [08:01]

• Jon Podhoretz voices discomfort with masked federal law enforcement, emphasizing optics and the social trust consequences of face-covering:

  "Part of the role of law enforcement is to represent authority...when someone is masked, it makes you think there’s something untoward. It’s a little creepy." [08:35]

The Warrants Issue

• Podhoretz explains the difference between routine policing (where arrest without a warrant is often necessary) and the public unease with ICE's current, more aggressive approach.
• The contrast is established between the broad public support for deportation (polls say 60%) and discomfort with the aggressive, militarized ICE optics, as seen in Minneapolis.
  • "The combination of the confrontations with the public, the shootings, the masking...does not seem to be giving the American people confidence in the behavior of ICE and Border Patrol." [12:11]

Underlying Motives

• Eliana Johnson suggests Democrats’ real aim is obstructing deportations altogether:

  "The masks...we can have a debate about. The judicial warrant issue is about actually trying to stop these guys and making it much harder for them to deport immigrants, which is why Democrats are for them." [13:52]

• She summarizes media coverage: only 14% of those arrested by ICE in Trump’s first new year were violent criminals. Nearly 40% had no criminal record at all.
• Christine Rosen brings up identity theft by illegal immigrants, noting that nonviolent lawbreaking still harms citizens:

  "They stole Social Security numbers, used them as their ID the entire time they were here. That’s identity theft..." [17:19]

The American Immigration Rorschach Test

[21:43 - 35:12]

Lawbreaking and Immigration

• Abe: "The truth is, if you're here illegally, you can't make your way without committing follow on crimes...so you need to subvert the system to get by, and that...is not victimless." [21:43]
• Seth Mandel questions why additional criminality is even necessary as a threshold for deportation:

  "Why do we need a line about who to arrest if someone is here illegally? Why can't...the point of immigration enforcement is to enforce immigration law." [22:17]

• Podhoretz: Large-scale enforcement actions, like stop-and-frisk, produce diminishing returns and risk alienating regular citizens.

Political Optics and Shifting Attitudes

• Christine: Under Obama, millions were deported quietly; the process now looks military and confrontational largely due to deliberate choices by the MAGA movement:

  "...There are people in the Trump administration...who want it to be aggressive, who want it to look, you know, military, who like what that says about the strength of the country..." [26:48]

• Podhoretz: Aggressive action produces high-profile mistakes, which shift public sentiment even if the polls look superficially supportive ("This is a Rorschach test").

The Gridlock on Immigration Reform

• Christine: The parties' fight over masks and optics is a distraction that helps them evade tackling comprehensive reform.
• Podhoretz:

  "Republicans touched it [comprehensive reform] twice...The right doesn't like it anymore in any way, shape, or if it ever did...the Democrats on the left...are perfectly happy in a weird way with the system as it is because it demonizes Republicans and sufficient numbers of illegals keep their numbers up for the census." [32:57]

• The census "quiet issue": More non-citizens means more House seats and electoral votes for blue states.

Leftward Democratic Pressure & Primary Threats

[35:12 - 39:41]

• Podhoretz: Leftist insurgents are driving Democrats to radicalize on immigration to avoid primary challenges, referencing Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and the recent NJ Tom Malinowski primary loss.

  "Every standard issue Democrat is now afraid of their left, somebody in their district coming out of nowhere...and eating their lunch and you know, when they've never had to run before." [37:08]

• Seth: Example of AIPAC attacking Malinowski on pro-ICE positions, allowing an AOC-style progressive to win the Democratic primary.

American Malaise: Polling, Vice, and Soul Sickness

[41:49 - 59:54]

Plummeting Optimism

• Podhoretz summarizes the latest Gallup poll: Life satisfaction at 62% (previously close to 80%), expectations for future at 59%.
  • "We have the highest standard of living any humans have ever had...so something is going on here. The problem here is not material circumstance...it is soul sickness." [55:41]
• Abe: Finds it striking that only about half feel they're "thriving" (49%).

Searching for Causes—And the Vice Boom

• Christine links societal malaise ("mass flourishing in an era of plenty") to the abundance of vice (gambling, marijuana, pornography) and influence of populists with nihilistic messages.
• Podhoretz: "We are in a kind of Wild West of vice..." [47:21]
  • Notes increases in online gambling, drug use, and easy access to porn as societal destabilizers.
• Eliana adds compulsive social media to the list of vices:

  "The endless scrolling and TikToking...the combination of that with gambling, pornography...for young people, it's hugely damaging." [52:29]

• Abe reminds: "Don’t forget the admonition against covetousness...another huge issue now. What is inequity about? What is populism, you know, basically about?" [53:24]

Elite Corruption and the Epstein Scandal

[59:54 - 66:51]

• Christine: The public sense of an elite-rigged system is potent—"the Epstein scandal continues to dominate" because it confirms the worst suspicions.

  "It's this idea that the elites have the game rigged...the game itself is rigged." [58:20]

• Podhoretz reviews a 2015 Michael Wolff profile of Epstein that reveals the "demonic" culture of elite court society, which persisted post-conviction:

  "You read it and you’re like, this is demonic...you’re looking at a world...the mushy neoliberal Clintonian world...post-Cold War liberals who decided that they loved money." [62:30]

• The panel concludes that both left and right now seek to destroy this entrenched, corrupt elite, but is skeptical about who could or should reform it.

Cultural Moment & Recommendations

[67:36 - 71:10]

• Seth Mandel recommends the Netflix documentary Miracle (on the 1980 Lake Placid "Miracle on Ice"), arguing it offers a dose of American optimism, unity, and underdog triumph—much needed given the podcast’s themes.

  "My recommendation is the cure for pessimism and this feeling...the new Netflix documentary 'Miracle,' about the 1980 Lake Placid Olympics..." [67:36]

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Masking & Law Enforcement:

  "Part of the role of law enforcement is to represent authority...when someone is masked, it makes you think there’s something untoward. It’s a little creepy."
  — Jon Podhoretz [08:35]

• On Party Politics & Immigration:

  "For Democrats, it’s like, hey, let's throw sand in the gears and slow you guys down and make it harder because we want to keep these people here."
  — Eliana Johnson [13:52]

• On Social Malaise:

  "We are living in a world in which 96% of people in the US are employed...we have the highest standard of living any humans have ever had...The problem is not material circumstance—it is soul sickness."
  — Jon Podhoretz [55:41]

• On Gambling and Vice:

  "We are in a kind of wild west of vice where every..."
  — Jon Podhoretz [47:21]

• On the Rigged System:

  "It’s this idea that the elites have the game rigged...and that's dangerous for long term..."
  — Christine Rosen [58:20]

Key Timestamps

• [02:39] – DHS shutdown drama: what’s at stake
• [03:46] – Eliana details ICE/Republican-Democrat points of conflict (masks, warrants)
• [06:48] – Christine on Democrats' arguments and the masking dilemma
• [08:35] – Jon on the social harm of masking law enforcement
• [13:52] – Eliana on Democratic motives ("throw sand in the gears")
• [21:43] – Abe: Illegality breeds follow-on crime, not victimless
• [32:57] – Immigration reform gridlock, census politics
• [35:12] – Progressive pressure on Democrats via left-wing primaries
• [41:49] – Podhoretz: Gallup poll, dropping American optimism
• [47:21] – The wild west of vice and cultural decline
• [58:20] – Christine: The system feels rigged, feeding malaise
• [62:30] – Podhoretz: Michael Wolff's Epstein profile and elite rot
• [67:36] – Seth’s uplifting cultural recommendation (Miracle, Netflix)

Final Thoughts

The episode unpacks how competing interests in Congress are deadlocking over immigration enforcement and what that stalemate says about deeper American disillusionments—public weariness with both party platforms, distrust of institutions, and a growing sense that the American system is fundamentally unfair and unhealthy. Against this heavy backdrop, the hosts encourage seeking reminders of national unity and optimism—even through sports documentaries—while warning that the country’s current "soul sickness" will not be easy to cure.