The Commentary Magazine Podcast

Episode: Epstein and the Conspiracies
Date: September 9, 2025
Host: John Podhoretz
Panelists: Abe Greenwald, Seth Mandel, Christine Rosen

Overview

This episode delves deeply into the resurging public and media interest in Jeffrey Epstein’s connections to powerful figures, especially in light of Donald Trump’s recently resurfaced note in Epstein’s birthday book. The panel explores not only the current media obsession with these links, but also the wider culture of conspiracy thinking, the dynamics of elite self-protection, and the policy implications arising in adjacent issues like education reform. The discussion flows naturally between Epstein, conspiratorial mindsets, elite accountability, and the failures of American education—drawing connections between how societies process scandals and decline.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Resurgence of Epstein Coverage — The Trump Angle

• Media Analysis: Major outlets (NYT, WSJ) are heavily analyzing a birthday note from Trump to Epstein, focusing on forensic details and potential implications.
  • John Podhoretz (03:04): “I just think it’s interesting that this event that took place 20 years ago…is surfacing and resurfacing...with this one connection, that he and Trump were friendly or friends or Trump was at his birthday party or something like that. When that's it.”
• Elite Hypocrisy: The idea that Trump campaigned against the elites he was long part of; the potential double standards in accountability.
  • Christine Rosen (04:54): “He was part of that same elite…the water he swam in. And I think that's why he's so vehement about wanting it all to go away.”

2. What Do We Really Know About Epstein? (07:56–11:27)

• Epstein’s Crimes vs. Theories: Panelists separate known facts (Epstein’s and Maxwell’s convictions, relationships with power players like Gates and Clinton) from persistent gaps and conspiracy speculation.

  • Seth Mandel (07:56): “I just have this larger problem with the story…itself is sort of barely there.”
  • John Podhoretz (11:27): “Here’s what we know about Epstein…we know that he himself confessed to acts of sexual molestation of underage girls…We know Wexner of the Limited gave him a $70 million townhouse…Melinda Gates divorced Bill Gates based on his relationship with Epstein.”

• Institutional Cover-ups: Multiple powerful institutions (JP Morgan, Harvard, Apollo) that enabled or protected Epstein; broader questions of elite accountability.

3. The Culture of Conspiracy Theories (10:26–13:00)

• Trump’s Relationship with Conspiracy Culture: Trump both rode and fueled conspiracy thinking, which now turns against him.
  • Abe Greenwald (08:50): “He sort of opened the hellmouth of conspiracy theorists on the Right…It was really sticky, the idea that people in power were trafficking children.”
• Perpetual Motion of Conspiracies: The story persists because of ambiguity, lack of closure, and Trump’s combative denials.
  • Christine Rosen (10:26): “Part of why the story continues for Trump is his denial, is his belligerence…as Seth says, feeds the conspiracy.”

4. Elite Immunity, Retribution, and the Weaponization of Scandal (18:01–18:42)

• Pettiness and Weaponization: Both political rivals (e.g., Thomas Massie) and media make use of the Epstein story for their own ends.
  • Abe Greenwald (18:01): “This is all kind of the same elite pettiness…everybody is taking their shot.”
• Fracturing MAGA: Even among Trump’s base, these conspiracies sow division and doubts.
  • Christine Rosen (18:42): “…a splinter within MAGA that’s going ‘wait a minute’…this is raising questions for them too. And that’s…dangerous for him.”

5. Are We All Living in Conspiracy? (19:59–27:13)

• If Trump Sees Conspiracies Everywhere, Are They Real?
  • John Podhoretz (19:59): “If a person like this…says everything’s a conspiracy, doesn’t that maybe mean that everything is a conspiracy?...Either America is the fever swamps and we’re all in it...”
• Normalization of Conspiracy Thinking: The discussion draws connections to election denialism on both sides of the aisle and Trump’s lifelong sense of being in rigged systems.

6. From Conspiracy to Policy: Failures in Education (27:13–46:18)

• Educational Decline: John pivots to a “policy conspiracy”—the catastrophic drop in reading comprehension among American students despite massive spending increases.
  • John Podhoretz (31:55): “In 1982…there was an educational crisis…Since then we spent 300% more—and the educational performance…has been in severe decline.”
• Self-Interested Elites: He frames educational bureaucrats/teachers’ unions as self-perpetuating elites blocking reform and accountability.
  • Christine Rosen (34:16): “That group…are 100% in the pocket of the Democratic Party…They are using that political power to thwart…experiment in education.”
• Loss of Critical Thinking & Reading: Technology and fads actually hollow out essential skills; referencing personal stories and broader trends.
  • Abe Greenwald (36:07): “They are not reading…professors are…giving in to this idea that students don’t have the attention span to read long assignments.”
  • Seth Mandel (38:20): “If you graduate with marginal…reading skills, you could do just fine in life because that AI technology will be there for you…”
• The Vicious Cycle of Lowered Standards: The panel connects grade inflation and lack of rigor at even the top colleges (e.g., Harvard) to the broader rot.

7. Conspiracies Old and New: From RFK Jr. to “Everything is Rigged” (53:42–54:17)

• Modern Hyperconspiracy: Unlike in the past, the combination of elite acceptance and viral tech makes conspiracy beliefs much more pervasive and powerful.
  • Christine Rosen (53:42): “The rewards of conspiratorial thinking now are far, far greater…combination of its elite acceptance and technology’s ability to spread it makes it a kind of hyper-conspiratorial time.”
• RFK Jr. and the Search for Villains: A discussion of new conspiracy claims regarding autism and Tylenol, exemplifying the constant cycling of scapegoats in a society primed for such narratives.
  • John Podhoretz (54:17): “RFK Jr…he just flipped the script on what it was that he has been saying for much of his adult life was the cause…Now there’s a new thing.”

8. Brief Foray into Israel-Gaza Developments (59:21–62:33)

• The possible escalation of Israeli strikes targeting Hamas leaders in Qatar (reference to breaking news).
• Joking references about not wasting serious military assets on trivial figures (Greta Thunberg).

9. Closing Recommendation

• John recommends the Netflix animated series Long Story Short for its nuanced portrayal of a Jewish family (62:33).

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On the durability of the Epstein/elite conspiracy story:
  John Podhoretz (06:21): “If you were to blow the hinges off the Epstein story somehow and this file gets released and we know who everybody was...the discrediting of an entire elite really might happen.”

• On Trump’s relationship to conspiracy:
  Abe Greenwald (08:50): “The whole conspiracy culture is about, you know, this guy was obviously bad, he was obviously protected, some sort of code of silence. He had an island with a weird temple. What’s on the island? What’s in the temple?...it’s the kind of story that as soon as you’re able to connect the story in some way to the President...it’s not really going to go away...”

• On institutional self-dealing:
  John Podhoretz (39:25): “You are making it impossible for people to rise from a disadvantaged position without a moment at some point...where somebody looks at you, points at you, and says you can be more than you are now.”

• On conspiratorial mindsets in education:
  Christine Rosen (34:16): “They actually are behaving like a very aggressive monopoly industry…”

• On grade inflation and standards:
  John Podhoretz (48:55): "Harvard was always an easy A...the problem with not applying standards is that then there’s no way to apply standards."

• On the abundance of new, ever-shifting conspiracy targets:
  John Podhoretz (54:17): “Autism is caused by Tylenol...so the point is autism is caused by something. There’s some big company that is profiting from it, that is hiding this from us...”

• On the fragility of education’s value in the AI age:
  Seth Mandel (46:21): “Now that’s everything. When am I gonna need reading? When am I gonna need history? It’s all fake anyway..."

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:04] — Media’s forensic focus on Trump and Epstein; Trump’s ties to elite
• [04:54] — Elite hypocrisy and Trump’s performative populism
• [06:04] — Epstein’s other powerful connections (Clinton, Gates, Wexner, etc.)
• [07:56] — Limits of actual knowledge re: Epstein vs. social speculation
• [08:50] — Trump’s complicity in the rise of conspiracy culture
• [10:26] — How Trump could end the speculation, but refuses to
• [11:27] — Breaking down the known facts about Epstein, elite complicity
• [18:01] — The role of elite retribution and weaponization of scandal (Massie)
• [18:42] — How conspiracy culture fractures Trump’s own base
• [19:59] — Questioning if conspiracies are now the system; Trump’s conspiratorial worldview
• [27:13] — Transition to educational policy; massive spending and declining results
• [31:55] — Statistical proof of education spending vs outcomes
• [34:16] — Teachers’ unions and bureaucrats as self-interested elite blockades
• [38:20] — AI as a crutch; consequences for poorer students
• [48:55] — Grade inflation, the vanishing of standards, and university hollowing
• [53:42] — The hypercharged rewards of modern conspiracy theory
• [54:17] — The cycling of scapegoats in modern conspiracies (RFK Jr., Tylenol)
• [59:21] — Breaking news: possible Israeli escalation in Qatar; gallows humor
• [62:33] — Long Story Short recommended for its Jewish family portrayal

Tone and Language

The episode maintains the characteristic blend of irony, exasperation, and intellectual engagement typical of the Commentary Podcast. Panelists are thoughtful but critical, sometimes sarcastic, and invested in drawing historic and literary analogies to make sense of the current cultural malaise.

Summary

Listeners are taken on a nuanced journey from media and political exploitation of the Epstein saga, through the wider societal embrace of conspiracy thinking, to the systemic failures of American education and the consequences for the Republic. The episode closes with a satirical take on the endless hunt for new conspiratorial villains and the erosion of social trust, all while lacing in dry humor and pointed cultural references.