The Commentary Magazine Podcast

Episode: Epsteinmania Returns
Date: November 12, 2025
Hosts: John Podhoretz, Abe Greenwald, Seth Mandel, Eliana Johnson

Episode Overview

In this episode, the Commentary team dives into the latest burst of "Epsteinmania," prompted by a New York Times report on new leaked emails allegedly linking Donald Trump more closely to Jeffrey Epstein’s predatory activities. The group evaluates what—if anything—these revelations change, the political motivations behind the renewed push for the release of Epstein-related files, and how the scandal intertwines with deeper currents of conspiracism in American culture and politics. The conversation expands into the failures of media gatekeeping, the proliferation of counter-narratives (including populist and conspiratorial ones), and the broader bankruptcy of public trust in American institutions.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “New” Epstein Revelations

• Main Story: The New York Times reports on emails from Jeffrey Epstein alleging Trump knowingly spent hours with one of Epstein’s victims. These are from between 2011–2019, involving exchanges with Michael Wolff and Ghislaine Maxwell.
  • [01:47] John Podhoretz introduces the story, emphasizing that, stylistically, calling Epstein “Mr.” is odd for a convicted felon.
• Does It Change Anything?
  • [04:13] John Podhoretz: “I don’t see how this changes anything…Trump said he knew Epstein…They had a falling out.”
  • [05:25] John points out a 2019 email referencing Trump: “Of course he knew about the girls. As he asked G. Lane to stop.” He reads this as possibly exculpatory for Trump, though admits its ambiguity.
  • [05:33] Abe Greenwald: “We don’t know what it means. But that’s how it lands with me."

2. Political Motives & Timing

• Procedural Dynamics in Congress:
  • [06:04] Discussion of a discharge petition in the House to release Epstein files, now possible with enough Republicans joining Democrats.
  • [06:21] Eliana Johnson explains the procedural triggers and how this new development puts pressure on Trump and the GOP at a sensitive time.
  • [07:56] Abe: “If you are a conspiracy theorist...everything relating to Epstein stinks to high heaven.”
• Both Sides Want the Files Out (For Opposite Reasons):
  • [08:00–10:00] The group describes how, depending on who’s in power, both left and right suspect the files are being withheld to protect political elites.

3. Why Does Epsteinmania Never Die?

• Cultural Gravity & Unanswered Mysteries:
  • [15:07] Abe: “The Epstein story…will remain a story as long as we are alive…and will be revived…by another book and another investigation…because of the circumstances surrounding his prosecution, his plea, his second prosecution, and then his death—all of which have mysteries…impossible to sort through. Right…nothing adds up.”
  • [19:04] Eliana: “It’s also the story of our time because our time just gets more conspiracist, right?...The public political discourse has become more conspiracist.”
• Comparisons to Historical Unsolved Mysteries:
  Judge Crater, Jack the Ripper, Lizzie Borden—all touchstones for how unsolved legend becomes cultural glue.

4. Conspiracism in Political and Media Culture

• Trump’s “Pot Stirring”:
  • [20:00] Eliana and John discuss Trump’s historic role as a mainstream instigator of conspiracy politics, referencing birtherism and the migration to QAnon and broader trafficking panics.
  • [21:53] John: “Since 1963, an enormous number of Americans believe they have been fed lies about unbelievably important things.”
  • [25:00] Examples given: 9/11 “trutherism,” Iraq-war lies, financial collapse, Pizzagate, and more.
  • [26:00] John: “My conspiracy that I believe in is that Epstein did not kill himself. I have no evidence...That’s my one. Everybody gets one.”
• Media Gatekeeping and Its Collapse:
  • [41:52] Abe: “A key moment in the destruction of the reputation of the News business came...when Walter Cronkite’s successor, Dan Rather, bought into a fabricated conspiracy theory…He was gone in 10 days.”
• The Importance of Narrative Control:
  • [47:26] Eliana: “If someone were going out through history to write this era and they went out on the Internet…they might reconstruct the exact same Russiagate story that turned out to be highly deficient…and that’s the thing…they’ve sort of left all this...It’s not even residue.”

5. Generational Shifts & Counter-Histories

• Rise of “Alternative Media” and Collapse of Trust:
  • [41:16] Seth: “There are people who grew up watching Walter Cronkite who are now on the Tucker Fuentes train…What about the people who grew up knowing nothing other than a world of counter history…Gen Alpha. As far as they’re concerned, this is the news.”
  • [38:18] Abe: “These stories rate and Tucker, look, Tucker Carlson’s entire career…is created on a platform…everything that they’ve been telling you…is a lie.”

6. Epstein Scandal as “Political Fun”

• [36:09] Abe admits it’s a perverse sort of “fun”: “Sheerly fun story in American politics…Everybody gets to play.”

7. Modern Media Failures (and BBC Scandal)

• [56:07] Eliana details recent BBC resignations over unethical editing and misleading news coverage—in both Trump and Gaza reporting.
• [60:00] Abe reads a quote from resigning BBC director general defending their journalism, even after internal reports found consistent deception.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On the Epstein Story’s Ambiguity
  • [04:13] John Podhoretz: “I don’t see how this changes anything. It doesn’t appear to me to contradict anything Trump has said previously.”
• The Enduring Allure of Epstein
  • [15:07] Abe Greenwald: “The Epstein story…will remain a story for as long as we are alive…because of the circumstances…all…have mysteries and weirdnesses…impossible to sort through.”
  • [15:49] Abe: “This story is…the story of our time. It is going to be the unsolved crime of our time.”
• On Conspiracism In Public Life
  • [19:04] Eliana Johnson: “The public political discourse has become more conspiracist…Trump is really at the center of it.”
  • [21:53] John Podhoretz: “Since 1963, an enormous number of American people believe…they have been fed lies about unbelievably important things.”
  • [26:00] John: “My conspiracy that I believe in is that Epstein did not kill himself.”
• Media and Gatekeeping
  • [41:52] Abe Greenwald: “A key moment in the destruction of…the News business came…when Dan Rather bought into a fabricated conspiracy theory…He was gone in 10 days.”
  • [52:54] Abe: “The gatekeepers got corrupted…They killed the gatekeepers, discredited gatekeeping, but without gatekeeping, we got nothing.”
• On Counter-Histories and the Decline of Trust
  • [38:18] Abe: “Come to me for a counter history of the world that we’re living in and I will supply you with endless amounts of information that say that everything you were ever told is untrue.”
  • [41:16] Seth Mandel: “There are people who grew up watching Walter Cronkite…now on the Tucker Fuentes train…Gen Alpha…as far as they’re concerned, this is the news.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:47] – Epstein emails news breaks, panel initial reactions
• [04:13] – Does this story change anything about Trump/Epstein?
• [06:04–07:56] – Congressional discharge petition; bipartisan political intrigues around releasing Epstein files
• [13:07] – Timing and “Epsteinmania” as perennial media event
• [15:07–19:04] – Epstein as perennial unsolved crime & magnet for conspiracy
• [19:04–21:53] – Trump’s conspiracist legacy & public appetite for conspiracy
• [25:00–27:30] – The “one conspiracy per person” quip; collapse of trust post-Cronkite
• [41:52–45:41] – The Dan Rather CBS scandal: gatekeeping and the decline of institutional trust
• [47:26] – The challenge of reconstructing factual history amid digital residue and media failures
• [56:07–61:51] – BBC resignations over manipulated coverage; why no one trusts gatekeepers anymore

Memorable Moments

• Abe’s “third camp” take on Epstein:
  "I'm in this weird third camp of extreme discomfort—I don't trust any of it, but I also don't think there's a smoking gun about Trump either." [14:46]
• Eliana imagines tabloid TV justice:
  "I want to see Ghislaine Maxwell pull a Wolf Blitzer in Mission Impossible, pull off the mask, let's see who's underneath!" [19:04]
• Meta-commentary on podcasting and generational news:
  "Gen Alpha…as far as they're concerned. This is the news." – Seth Mandel [41:16]

Conclusion & Takeaways

The Commentary team finds the renewed Epstein/Trump revelations unpersuasive as smoking-gun news—but completely logical as political dynamite and cultural conspiracy fuel. Their conversation is less about the fact pattern of Epstein’s crimes and more about how American society has lost trust in traditional arbiters of truth, leaving a vacuum filled by counter-narratives, conspiracy entrepreneurs, and a digital historical record that may be impossible to reliably sort out. The table is set for Epsteinmania to never end because, in media, politics, and public consciousness, uncertainty and intrigue now reign.

Further Reading & Recommendations

• Abe recommends: History of the Thirteen by Honoré de Balzac [69:45]
• For more on these topics, subscribe to Commentary Magazine’s YouTube or visit their website.

Hosted by:
John Podhoretz, Abe Greenwald, Seth Mandel, Eliana Johnson

Summary prepared for listeners who want a rich, chronological, and insightful overview of this episode’s debates on Epsteinmania, politics, conspiracy, and the failures of institutional media.