The Commentary Magazine Podcast

Episode: "John Talks About His Father"
Date: December 18, 2025
Theme: Remembering Norman Podhoretz — Intellectual Courage, Jewish Identity, and the Battle for Ideas

Episode Overview

This episode is a deeply personal, reflective roundtable centered on the life and recent passing of Norman Podhoretz, legendary editor of Commentary magazine and influential public intellectual. Host John Podhoretz, Norman’s son, shares memories and lessons from his father’s legacy—his intellectual courage, Jewish identity, and impact on American conservatism. The cast explores how Norman’s principled contrarianism shaped debates from the Cold War through today, and how his example remains relevant in current ideological struggles.

Key Discussion Points

1. The Public and Private Legacy of Norman Podhoretz

• John Podhoretz opens by thanking colleagues and the public for support after his father’s passing:
  • “The outpouring of sympathy and good wishes...has been overwhelming...so willing to risk and threaten...and expose himself to attack...for holding opinions that the people who he wanted to praise him most would subject him to.” (John, 02:06–06:40)
• Noteworthy tributes from various outlets (Jewish News Service, Wall Street Journal, National Review), including the respectful tone of mainstream obituaries.
• Norman's essential quality: a hunger for affirmation paired with the courage to endure ostracism for his convictions.

Notable Quote

“It was very costly to him emotionally, personally...but never regretted the fidelity that he showed to the ideas that he thought were important.”
— John (06:08)

2. Intellectual Integrity and Standing Alone

• The episode contrasts Norman’s steadfastness with contemporary trends of ideological conformity.
  • “Today, people are happy to change positions, change sides, to go with the current. Exactly the opposite of what you’re describing your father did.” (Abe, 08:46)
  • John invokes the risk of swimming against the current:

    “Bravery...is doing the thing that your instinct might tell you you shouldn't or you couldn't or you can't. Because everything in you says, protect yourself...and you do it anyway.”
    — John (07:27)

3. The Generational Influence: Shaping Future Thinkers

• Discussion explores how Norman’s writing (and Commentary magazine itself) altered the trajectories of many, including figures like Tom Cotton and Ben Shapiro.
  • Eliana Johnson recalls growing up surrounded by stacks of Commentary:

    “I wondered how many other people are there like that who came into contact with Norman Podhoretz’s writing...who never became a part of the left because of that.”
    — Eliana (12:21)

• The contrast between the intellectual rebelliousness Commentary once provided and today’s conformity on campuses, where students are often aligned with their professors’ leftist views.

4. Traditions of Core Curriculum and Intellectual Formation

• John highlights the importance of grounding in the Western canon—something Norman insisted on:

  • “He was a believer...that you can’t write free verse until you learn the rules of poetry...needed to be exposed sometimes to ideas that were bad, that were in fact pernicious, and that had bad consequences.”

  • (John, 14:15–19:59)
• Discussion of how dismantling core curricula at universities weakened students' ability to grapple with fundamental ideas, leaving them ill-equipped for nuanced debate.

Memorable Exchange

• Christine: “They were taught only the criticism of the core ideas...It was the demolition of any sort of core curriculum.” (23:53)
• Eliana: “When you mix into that the gospel of self-esteem, you get supremely confident morons…” (24:53)
  • Abe: “Such a good book title, supremely Confident morons.” (25:16)

5. Specialization vs. Generalist Knowledge

• Critique of modern academia’s hyper-specialization, diminishing generalist education needed to comprehend broad human affairs.
  • “Being a generalist is a good thing. Trying to understand the world is good...if you want to be a smart person...try to understand how every subject on earth collides.” (Eliana, 25:21–27:08)

6. Jewish Identity, Intellectual Honesty, and Key Editorial Moments

• Norman Podhoretz’s commitment to Jewish learning stemmed from a promise to his father and led to significant editorial achievements:
  • Publication of Emil Fackenheim’s essay on the “614th Commandment” — “let there be Jews.” (29:56–33:40)
  • Norman’s Jewish and Western educations provided a dual foundation—the “Athens and Jerusalem” dichotomy.

Notable Quote

“These two... Athens and Jerusalem, combined to make him a very, very serious person who took the world and everything in it with deadly seriousness.”
— John (37:54)

• Norman maintained a clear distinction between religious values and politics, never invoking God as a “trump card” in political debates.

7. Common Sense as a Principle of Neoconservatism

• John recounts his father’s “common sense” approach:

  “Crime’s bad, law and order is good. America is good. Because look at what America is compared to everywhere else.”
  (42:02–43:01)

• Recounts Norman’s disdain for opportunistic ideological shifts and for those who excuse anti-American or anti-Israel sentiment.

8. Intellectual Bravery and Modern Parallels

• Ben Shapiro’s recent confrontation with the New Right is framed as mirroring Norman’s example of intellectual courage:
  • “Ben said the right cannot have this and remain a force for good in American life...an act of bravery...he went at his audience and said, you are being taken down a road to evil and you... must oppose it.”
  • (John, 45:23–49:44)
• The episode draws lines from the 1960s left (anti-American, pro-totalitarian) to today’s right-wing excesses (“gripers,” Tucker Carlson) as part of an ongoing struggle for the soul of conservatism.

Memorable Quote

“Calling that [dangerous radicalism] out—very important. There is so little of it going on now.”
—John (49:44)

9. A Never-Ending Fight for Ideas

• “The fight will never end...the left and the right…we may be in that fight with the right in the same way for the next 40 years.” (John, 50:06–52:15)
• Warning that movements lacking historical grounding are easily manipulated and radicalized.

10. Reflections on Fatherhood, Loss, and Lasting Influence

• John shares his personal feelings on Norman’s passing: peace rather than devastation, gratitude for both love and intellectual legacy.
  • “I am not devastated...I got more from him as a father than most people could get from a father...I not only got love and support and remarkable kindness and generosity, but also the intellectual foundation that I mentioned.” (John, 58:25–60:18)
• Describes a family shaped by reading and conversation, and Norman’s rare, undiminished pride in his children’s intellectual pursuits.
• Honoring Norman’s spiritual generosity and principled loneliness—a cost of his dedication to ideals over comfort or popularity.

Notable Quote

“His pride in the work that I did at Commentary...were soul enhancing and a real example of what it means to be a genuinely spiritually generous person.”
—John (65:13)

• The episode closes with John explaining the Jewish mourning customs and why he chose to appear on the podcast just before beginning Shiva.

Memorable Quotes and Timestamps

• “Bravery…is doing the thing that your instinct might tell you you shouldn't or you couldn't or you can't…And you do it anyway.”
  — John (07:27)
• “Supremely confident morons who have only been taught how wonderful they are when they actually don't know anything.”
  — Eliana (24:53)
• “It is possible to be a normal, decent person and yet to be fully alive.” (Quoting Orwell)
  — John (43:01)
• “There is no common cause. They are poisoning the tent. They are poisoning the ground.”
  — John (49:44)
• “He was lonely, and he felt alone…it was…he was saddened by that and by the loss of the circle…in his 20s and his 30s. But…the level of his appreciation for our work…were soul enhancing…”
  — John (63:05–65:13)
• “He died peacefully, in no pain...he died knowing that he was loved by the people who deserve to know him and deserve to love him.”
  — John (60:18–66:31)

Key Timestamps for Segment Reference

• 02:06–08:45: John’s opening tribute to his father
• 12:20–14:15: Influence on young readers, like Tom Cotton and Ben Shapiro
• 14:15–19:59: The importance of the Core Curriculum and intellectual formation
• 29:56–37:54: Norman’s Jewish formation, editorial moments, the “614th commandment”
• 42:01–43:01: Common sense and neoconservatism
• 45:23–49:44: Ben Shapiro’s Heritage Foundation speech paralleled with Norman’s bravery
• 58:25–66:31: John’s personal reflections on loss, gratitude, and family legacy

Tone and Style

The conversation carries a tone of deep respect, humility, and bittersweet pride, blending intellectual analysis with heartfelt personal memoir. There is a clear sense of urgency about the continued fight for civilizational values, a commitment to honest debate, and a warning against complacency and radicalization—delivered with warmth, humor, and candor.