Kicking the Oil Can

Summary

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The Commentary Magazine Podcast

Episode Title: Kicking the Oil Can
Date: May 21, 2026
Host: John Podhoretz
Panel: Abe Greenwald, Seth Mandel, Matt Continetti
Theme: Disarray over the White House ballroom funding, the consequences of Trump’s procedural shortcuts, the Iran war ceasefire, American and Israeli strategies toward regime change, and the muddy future of US foreign and domestic policy.

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the chaos stemming from Trump’s halted White House ballroom project and its intersection with congressional funding maneuvers, especially in the context of broader Republican messaging struggles during wartime economic headaches. The conversation then pivots to the ongoing Iran ceasefire: its uncertain strategic value, political cost, hawkish-drone Trump, and the elusive goal of regime change. The panel analyzes both Trump’s temperament and Washington’s procedural norms, alongside a dose of dark humor and characteristic banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The White House Ballroom Debacle

• Background: Trump’s plan to add a White House ballroom hit a legislative snag after he bulldozed the East Wing preemptively, assuming private funds would suffice.
• Congressional Wrangling: Senate Republicans sought to authorize $1 billion for Secret Service upgrades (including $200 million for the ballroom) inside a reconciliation bill, exploiting rules that allow budget-related items to bypass a filibuster with a simple majority ([02:00–04:29]).
• Obstruction and Reversal: Democrats seized on the “billion-dollar ballroom” as a symbol of Republican excess in wartime hardship, prompting GOP backpedaling and likely removal of funding from the final bill ([07:22–08:48]).
• Litigation and New York Parallels: Trump’s “fait accompli” demolition leaves a literal pit on the White House grounds, reminiscent of NYC’s half-finished development sites ([08:48–09:50]).
• Procedural Shortcuts Gone Awry: Trump’s disregard for congressional procedures—something also reflected in war conduct and trade policies—has created unnecessary headaches: “I think outfoxing himself is a phrase that can be applied to a lot that's going on in Washington right now.” – Abe ([09:50]).

Notable Quote:
“Trump did New York real estate game. It was like, I'm taking this out before you can even say boo. The East Wing will be gone. Now what you gonna do, stop me? Well, guess what? It turns out that maybe stopping him is a positive political play, that he has now outfoxed himself.”
— John Podhoretz ([09:09])

2. Republican Messaging Woes

• Ballroom as a Liability: The funding imbroglio gives Democrats a talking point amid public “pain at the pump” due to the Iran war, making squishy Republicans even more nervous about the upcoming midterms ([07:22–08:48], [25:06–26:53]).
• Broader Disarray: This is emblematic of how Trump’s big, theatrical gestures (from trade wars to military operations) can boomerang when they’re not anchored in procedural or political realities ([10:12–12:35]).

3. Wartime Political Dynamics and Congressional Disunity

• Primary Interference Backlash: Trump’s heavy-handed involvement in Republican primaries has bred intra-party resentment. Senators like Cassidy, Tillis, and possibly Cornyn may now defect on key war votes, jeopardizing the fragile majority ([15:50–17:41]).

Notable Quote:
“By interfering in the primaries, unlike really any other president I can think of since FDR, he's creating enemies within the party.”
— Abe Greenwald ([15:50])

4. Trump’s Handling of the Iran War and Ceasefire

• Ceasefire Outlasting Combat: The truce now exceeds the length of open operations; Iran is regrouping while still sporadically attacking targets ([20:54–21:14]).
• Strategic Dilemma: The panel speculates on reasons for America’s restraint—whether munitions shortages, fear of Iranian retaliation on Gulf energy infrastructure, or Trump’s hope for a grand deal.
• Blockade Politics: The ongoing blockade may be hurting Iran, but it also inflicts economic costs in America (notably spiking gas prices), without delivering a political reprieve. Panelists are puzzled why, if Trump’s paying the political price, he doesn’t just “send the planes in and finish the job” ([25:06–26:53]).
• Historical Patterns and Missed Opportunities: Trump’s hopes that popular revolt would topple Tehran have gone unfulfilled, partly due to brutal government crackdowns and the blackout of information ([39:22–43:18]).
• Cautious Hawks and Decision Paralysis: Trump is seen as his own hawk, but wastes momentum by failing to define or pursue clear strategic goals—oscillating between maximal demands and sudden restraint, leaving military brass and advisors guessing ([51:22–54:12]).

Notable Quote:
“I blew my rhetorical wad on how I'm wiping out your civilization. Now what do I do?”
— John Podhoretz ([44:13])

Notable Quote:
“He has staked his presidency on it. It's on him now entirely if he wins or loses. Cuz, can we win this? Of course we can win this... It's all in his head now.”
— John Podhoretz ([47:44])

5. Israel’s Shadow Strategies for Regime Change

• Leaked Operations: Israeli attempts to sow chaos inside Iran included a failed operation to free ex-president Ahmadinejad to lead a coup, plans to arm the Kurds, and other clandestine strategies ([34:48–38:18]).
• Contrasts in Approach: Israelis appear more committed to regime collapse—even embracing chaos—while Trump is wary of nation-building or state fragmentation, thus missing potential opportunities ([43:18–44:13]).

Notable Moment:
Jokes about Ahmadinejad’s well-known love for college football made the news of his possible alignment with Israel surreal, underlining the absurdity of Mideast intrigue ([35:03–35:30]).

6. Assessment of Trump’s Foreign Policy Style

• Temperament Over Tactics: Trump is willing to use force (and has done so against Iran), but his allergy to process, craving for drama, and frequent lack of follow-through muddles outcomes ([12:42], [44:13], [54:57]).
• Hawk-Dove Confusion: The panel debates whether Trump or his staff are the true hawks—ultimately agreeing that his desire for the “big boom” wars with his hope for a deal ([51:22–54:12]).

Notable Quote:
“Trump is a hawk...he destroyed the government of one country and then kidnapped the president of another one in two months.”
— Abe Greenwald ([51:24])

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• "That's kind of where we find ourselves in Iran, where he didn't proceed like other presidents have in making the public case and getting the congressional authorization and getting the allies lined up, he just built up his forces and then struck. So that kind of contempt for normal procedure, I think really does cost him."
  — Abe Greenwald ([12:42])

• “It is weird. It’s like a reverse Hamlet... Here we have Trump going all in. All in. All in. All in—to the point that he says, ‘I am going to destroy your civilization.’ And then something in him says, I believe, oops. I went too far. Ceasefire.” — John Podhoretz ([44:13])

• “We are sitting here without a strategy for regime change. Cuz Trump didn’t want to do regime change. He wanted the Iranians to do regime change.” — John Podhoretz ([37:27])

• “Other presidents have added to the White House complex. But I think in his kind of contempt for normal procedure, he has landed himself in this difficulty.” — Abe Greenwald ([11:11])

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Segment Timestamps

• [01:17–08:48]: Ballroom fiasco—explanation of reconciliation, funding tricks, courtroom obstacles, and political fallout.
• [08:48–12:35]: Analogies to New York real estate shenanigans, Trump’s procedural shortcuts, and impact on political fortunes.
• [15:50–17:41]: GOP intra-party fallout from Trump's primary meddling and shrinking margins in Congress.
• [20:54–26:53]: Iran war ceasefire, military assessments, costs of the blockade, and frustrations with the standoff.
• [34:48–39:22]: Israeli covert actions, regime change gambits, Ahmadinejad’s odd role, and skepticism over leaks.
• [43:18–44:13]: Trump’s strategic indecision, risks of endless waiting, missed opportunities for leverage.
• [51:22–54:57]: Hawkishness, Pentagon’s reluctance, and the burden of presidential direction.

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Recommendations (Quick Picks)

• Abe Greenwald ([59:56]): Life is Short (Netflix documentary about Martin Short) — “Very outrageous comedian, full of energy, very interesting life... it is remarkable the environment from which Martin Short emerged in the late 1970s, early 80s.”
• John Podhoretz ([63:43]): Becky Shaw (Broadway play, closing June 14th) — “The funniest American play that I have seen in 25 years at least.”

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

The conversation blends deep policy analysis with humor and personal anecdotes, marked by a skepticism of Trump’s unorthodox style and the unintended consequences of action without process. The panel sharply dissects the intersection of personality, institutional norms, and global conflict, underscoring that, in both the White House pit and the Persian Gulf, leadership choices are more decisive than any external challenge.

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For those who haven’t listened:
This episode provides a detailed, wryly entertaining diagnosis of Trump-era political and military decision-making, focusing on the messiness at home (the pit where a ballroom should be) and abroad (the limbo of the Iran war ceasefire). It's rich with procedural insights, sharp analogies, DC gossip, and some much-needed comic relief.

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Transcript

[Abe Greenwald]

Hope for the best, expect the worst. Some drinks and pain, Some die at first no way of knowing which way it's going.

[John Podhoritz]

Hope for the best, expect the worst,

[Abe Greenwald]

hope for the best.

[John Podhoritz]

Welcome to the Commentary magazine daily podcast. Today is Thursday, May 21, 2026. I am Jon Podhoritz, the editor of Commentary magazine. With me, as always, executive editor Abe Greenwald.

[Abe Greenwald]

Hi, Abe.

[Seth Mandel]

Hi, John.

[John Podhoritz]

Senior editor Seth Mandel. Hi, Seth.

[Matt Continetti]

Hi, John.

[John Podhoritz]

And with us this week, once again, AEI Honcho and columnist with the Wall Street Journal, Matt Continetti. Matthew Continetti. Hi, Matt.

[Abe Greenwald]

Hi, John.

[John Podhoritz]

Matthew or Matt, you can call him

[Abe Greenwald]

either way, I guess my friends call me Matt.

[John Podhoritz]

Yes. So everyone in this podcast audience is your friend?

[Abe Greenwald]

Yes, the Commentary audience are my friends.

[John Podhoritz]

Your friends, that's right, yeah. Okay. So, Matt, we had many topics we were thinking of starting with. You would like to start with the ballroom. So let's start with the ballroom.

[Abe Greenwald]

Yes, let's start. Well, why do I want to start with the ballroom today? It's because the ballroom is turning into a sort of mess. Very unusual at this point in the Trump administration for there to be a mess. But in this case, we have a new mess and that's the ballroom. So the Senate was intending to include quite a bit of money for the Secret Service in the reconciliation package that is very slowly making its way through Congress. Remember this reconciliation.

[John Podhoritz]

Can you quickly explain what a reconciliation package is? Just like 60 seconds.

[Abe Greenwald]

Okay, so as you know, to pass a bill through The Senate requires 60 votes. Any bill that is controversial, because if you don't have 60 votes, you can't break a potential filibuster on the bill unless you go through this legislative process called reconciliation. Reconciliation is a way of passing legislation through the Senate intended to be limited to debt, deficits, taxes, fellowship, fiscal policy budgets that does not require the 60 vote threshold. You can pass the reconciliation bill on a simple Senate majority. And indeed, as has been the case in recent administrations, this is the preferred way for an administration that has narrow control of the Senate to pass their legislative. Biden did this with his bills, including the so called Inflation Reduction Act. Trump did it last year with the one big beautiful bill, or as it's now called, the Working Families Tax cut. And thanks to the disaster of the government shutdown earlier this year, where the Department of Homeland Security wasn't funded, the Republicans have decided to fund ICE and Border Patrol for the rest of the Trump administration. So through the end of 2028, by passing a reconciliation bill now.

[John Podhoritz]

Which needs 51.

[Abe Greenwald]

Which needs 51 votes, and which exists

[John Podhoritz]

because it involves the spending of money. Often the way that the trick here is when administrations actually are trying to use the spending of money as a trick to pass policy. Massive policy changes.

[Abe Greenwald]

Yes.

[John Podhoritz]

And there is a whole ruling. The Senate parliamentarian decides whether or not this bill is actually about spending or about policy. Policy has to go through needs three fifths. But spending only 51 votes.

[Abe Greenwald]

That's right. And you're right to point out, John, that the decider, the person who judges whether something can be included in a reconciliation bill or not is the Senate parliamentarian. And the process by what is not

[John Podhoritz]

a senator, but is an official functionary functioning.

[Abe Greenwald]

Yeah.

[John Podhoritz]

Member of the Senate, deep state.

[Abe Greenwald]

Yeah. And the process by which the Senate parliamentarian calls or calls balls and strikes on whether something can be included in the reconciliation package that is called a birdbath, after America's most famous Klansmen.

[John Podhoritz]

Senator.

[Abe Greenwald]

Senator Bird. Bird.

[John Podhoritz]

Robert Bird.

[Abe Greenwald]

Robert Byrd of West Virginia.

[John Podhoritz]

So

[Abe Greenwald]

here's the problem. As we all know, there was the third attempt to kill Donald Trump in a year and a half at the recent White House Correspondent's Dinner. And after that event, Republicans and the Trump administration said that they want to increase the Secret Service budget in this reconciliation bill. They wanted to appropriate $1 billion in the reconciliation bill for the Secret Service, $200 million of which would be devoted to the construction of the new White House ballroom that will take over what was once the east. The east wing of the White House. Now, one might ask, I thought when Trump bulldozed the east wing for his ballroom, he said, don't worry, I've raised the private money to build the ballroom. So if that's the case, why would the Congress be appropriating $200 million for the ballroom? Well, my Wall Street Journal colleague and friend Kim Strassel has done some excellent reporting here. She found that the reason they need to have the money for the ballroom in the reconciliation package is because a judge has ruled that construction on the ballroom can't go forward because Congress did not authorize the new ballroom. So it's not really about passing the money for the ballroom. It's about passing congressional language saying Trump can build his ballroom.

[John Podhoritz]

Ah, but then it could be a dollar.

[Abe Greenwald]

It could be a dollar.

[John Podhoritz]

It could literally be a dollar.

[Abe Greenwald]

It could be a dollar for their ballroom. Yeah, well, I think no one has. I think that's a great idea. That's like the Price is Right option.

[John Podhoritz]

That's why it's not. That's why the money is involved. So we can get to that in a minute, too.

[Abe Greenwald]

Yes. In any case, this has become, like I say, a message because Democrats have seized on the issue and said they pounced. Democrats have pounced. And they're saying, why are Republicans spending a billion dollars? Again, the billion is for the Secret Service of the Lord. But they're saying, why are Republicans spending a billion dollars on the ballroom at a time when most Americans are feeling the pain at the pump from the Iran war and other costs? And Republicans, nervous Republicans have said, yeah, why are we saying that? We don't want to cast a vote for the ballroom now? And as a result, it looks like the ballroom funding will not be included in the reconciliation bill that was the headline this morning. And I have to say, this is profoundly frustrating because I don't know what the Trump administration does now. Right now, there's a big pit on the White House complex, and if the construction doesn't go forward, that pit's going to remain there until presumably there's a new occupant in the White House.

[John Podhoritz]

Welcome to New York City real estate. This is what happens. Developers buy a site and they try to create fet accompli. They knock the buildings down, and then there is a hole in the ground. And then the litigation begins. And you can, in the annals of New York City, right now, sitting right next to Congregation Sherith Israel, which is the congregation of Mayor Soloveitchik, Commentaries, Jewish commentary columnist. They tore down a building in order to build a new community building. The community does not want this and has been suing and for six, seven, eight years now, there is a hole in the ground. So Trump did New York real estate game. It was like, I'm taking this out before you can even say boo. The East Wing will be gone. Now what you gonna do, stop me? Well, guess what? It turns out that maybe stopping him is a positive political play, that he has now outfoxed himself.

[Abe Greenwald]

I think outfoxing himself is a phrase that can be applied to a lot that's going on in Washington right now.

[Seth Mandel]

Yeah, I was just gonna say, I mean, it's not just a New York real estate thing. This is a very Trump thing. I mean, with everything, he sort of breaks ground in a grand ceremony, and then before long, you go, wait, where

[John Podhoritz]

are we at with that now?

[Seth Mandel]

What's happening goes for the war, goes endlessly for tariffs, it goes for deportations, it goes for, you know, there's this very decisive

[John Podhoritz]

broadcast opening gambit.

[Seth Mandel]

Opening gambit. And then before long, you have no idea where project's at I think the

[John Podhoritz]

interesting aspect of the ballroom too, is that news came out, which by the way, makes perfect sense. And then Trump said he was angry and someone leaked it and it would be terrible. And the person who leaked it should go to jail. But the ballroom is apparently not just the ballroom, that there is an idea of play, of putting under the ballroom. Sort of like in the movie Dave, literally now, which is a comedy movie from 1994, a hospital and some, I assume, very high tech, surviving the nuclear war hardened silo or facility.

[Abe Greenwald]

And Trump also said that the roof will apparently be a drone pen that he said will be able to protect all of Washington, D.C. and I should also add that even though the judge said the construction can't go forward, it does appear that construction is still proceeding. And we know this because Trump recently held a press availability on the site of the ballroom. And in the background, you could hear the hammering and the drilling. And so again, he could just defy this level court, you know, and try to get his case knocked up to a higher level to allow him to do it without the congressional authorization. But what is a necessary idea? And again, right, this idea that we're broadening it out to all the Trump phenomenon. Trump was right to say the White House should have a ballroom. I've driven by the White House when they're holding a grand function and there are all these tents and it's a mess. And if it's raining, the White House should have a ballroom. Other presidents have added to the White House complex. But I think in his kind of contempt for normal procedure, he has landed himself in this difficulty.

[John Podhoritz]

Right.

[Abe Greenwald]

And that's the tariffs, like Abe said,

[John Podhoritz]

that's a whole other.

[Abe Greenwald]

That's kind of where we find ourselves in Iran, where he didn't proceed like other presidents have in making the public case and getting the congressional authorization and getting the allies lined up, he just built up his forces and then struck. So that kind of contempt for normal procedure, I think really does cost him. I should say, though, there are areas where the grand gesture does produce results. And I would point to the fountains, the fountains in Washington, D.C. they're running during the summer. They've been repaired.

[John Podhoritz]

They're beautiful.

[Abe Greenwald]

Near my office here in Dupont Circle, the fountains are running Meridian Hill park, which had been kind of a lackluster, dangerous place for a long time. It is in bloom and it's a beautiful fountain there. And of course, he, as Trump said just on Truth Social yesterday, the reflecting pool is coming along and it should be pretty spectacular. It seems like him and our favorite Trump official, Doug Burgum, are really cooking up some stuff with the reflecting pool or the special, you know, solutions or something to make it especially fabulous.

[John Podhoritz]

I want you to know that yesterday I had a long trip in very hot weather, you know, in New York. I had to go to Queens and everything. And I was wearing my. Doug Burgum for president.

[Abe Greenwald]

Yes, sir, as you used to call him. Governor Schmecky Schmeckstein.

[John Podhoritz]

Yeah, exactly. But he did have the best until Zoran Mamdani, I have to say, who had a fantastic logo. The only fantastic thing about him, Doug Burgum had the single best logo of any candidate in history. And therefore, I think aesthetically is an appropriate official to be fixing the reflecting pool. But to get back to this sort of larger point, then look, if Trump were at 48% approval rating, a lot of the troubles that he is having here would kind of go away because the Democrats would. Some of the Democrats would think, look, the people, you know, I don't want. But people like this is, he's trouble to get into a fight with. He's got resources that we don't really understand and that, you know, we better treat him as being formidable. They don't really think he's formidable. Republicans think he is incredibly formidable. And he just showed how formidable he is inside the Republican Party with these primary victories against the Republicans that he doesn't like. But Democrats are not scared of him, if they ever were anymore. And they see not only opposition to him, I think as the necessary, and they're turning back authoritarianism and all of that, but this is pure jiu jitsu. They are benefiting from striking at him when he does not have much in the way in the tank of throwing anything back to them that isn't simply a sop to his base, which he already has.

[Abe Greenwald]

Yeah. There's also the issue that by interfering in the primaries, unlike really any other president I can think of since fdr, he's creating enemies within the party. So what we find with the war authorization vote that just happened the other day, you know, ever since Operation Epic Fury began, the Democrats have bringing these War Powers act resolutions to the floor of the House and the Senate and they've usually been blocked, but in fact, in the Senate, it passed a cloture vote recently. Why? Well, because Senator Bill Cassidy of Louisiana, who had just lost a primary to a Trump backed candidate, is now going YOLO in his final months in the Senate.

[John Podhoritz]

And Thom Tillis.

[Abe Greenwald]

And Thom Tillis, who Trump essentially forced into retirement, he is becoming. He not only forced the Trump administration to drop that supercilious investigation indictment into Jerome Powell, the former Fed chair, but he is also becoming much more outward in his criticism. And next week, if John Cornyn loses the Senate primary in Texas to state Attorney General Ken Paxton, John Cornyn probably going to be more vocal in his. I mean, he's always been kind of independently minded and I mean, he's a team player, but we know he's not the die hard MAGA type and that would be more the case I think, if he loses next week. So when the Senate majority is this narrow, right, with only 53 senators, you're creating enemies. You are undermining your own position,

[John Podhoritz]

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[Abe Greenwald]

because it's about six. Right. It was about five weeks of Operation Epic Fury and now it's almost eight weeks of this ceasefire, which began in April 8th.

[John Podhoritz]

So it isn't really a ceasefire because Iran is of course firing.

[Abe Greenwald]

Well, it's an American ceasefire. It's like a unilateral ceasefire.

[John Podhoritz]

Right. But Iran, you know, nearly hit a nuclear. It's a stop.

[Matt Continetti]

When one car, when one car takes a break to get its tires changed and everything else, the race doesn't change.

[Abe Greenwald]

The race is still going. That's a great analogy.

[John Podhoritz]

Yeah. Okay. And we're getting weird. There are stories now coming out. CNN has a story that the Iranians are rebuilding their drone capacity. We hit them, we hit them. We hit. They really were out of commission on drones, but of course that's a very easy thing to get restarted. Drones are not hard to make as long as they can get the components. Missiles are hard to make. You know, like getting proper telemetry into a ballistic missile is no easy task, particularly if they're all buried or destroyed. But they're getting their drones back.

[Seth Mandel]

What's maddening about it though is that I'm sure, given where our intelligence and surveillance is on Iran at this point, I'm sure it's a very easy thing to prevent them from making drones. Were we still in firing mode?

[John Podhoritz]

Right. Well, that's, I think, the point, which is that the ceasefire has now, if you assume the ceasefire is part of a larger war, we have handed the enemy the rope with which to hang us. I mean, that is to say, like, even if we're also trying to manufacture munitions, I don't know how the pipeline works for American munitions and whether it's like a 24 hour system. We do spend a billion dollars a year on our military. So it's no joke that nothing is

[Abe Greenwald]

worth trillion Dollars a year.

[John Podhoritz]

Excuse me, A trillion dollars a year. Yeah, we said a billion dollars. We spend a billion dollars every eight hours or something.

[Abe Greenwald]

Like a billion dollars on the ballroom.

[John Podhoritz]

Yeah, right. Okay. So we're probably doing stuff to replenish our stocks, but you don't want to do this. You don't want to let the enemy get a break, take a breather, all of this. And then they're doing what people who are in a weaker position do. When you go to a negotiating table, oddly enough, you think it's the other way around, but they're saying no. They're at the negotiating table saying no. Then we come back, then we go back and we say something and then they say no again. And until we are ready to say we are done with you, the way Trump finally said, I'm done with you on the negotiations over Hamas and Gaza and basically said to Israel, okay, finish the job. Until he is ready and willing to do that, Iran is going to heal itself to some degree. And although part of obviously, which is the other point, I think we need to make the blockade that we are doing, which is an act of war, our blockading all Iranian shipping is a very big deal and I'm sure is having a very, very, very significant effect in, it's just a much longer term strategy than obviously kinetic involvement. And it all depends on whether or not we have the stomach to hold with that blockade, even if we're not firing through the summer and maybe into the fall to finally have Iran break. Right. But that's, you know, in Abe's analogy, that's the worst Trump. You're telling Trump to like pursue a long term game that will ultimately redound to your benefit. But you can't look for short term successes. You're talking about something to grind them down and impoverish them and end them that way. Also he likes a big boom.

[Matt Continetti]

We've got the, we're paying costs up front. So I'm not sure I understand politically the move of waiting and this amount of patience because politically one of the bigger problems with the war or the more tangible problems with the war at home is the, you know, the effect on gas prices and things like that. And of course we're seeing news reports about the effect it's going to have maybe on food prices and things like that, that there's, you know, there's down the road, knock on effects from these sorts of things. He's paying for that now because that's an attack line that is, you know, you can't deny that the price of gas, let's say, has gone up. When it has gone up. Even if we could put it in context historically and say it's not that, whatever. But the fact is they have a path of political attack against him that is making Republicans nervous, even more nervous about the midterms. So the blockade is a thing that can help us win the war and is a very big deal, but it is the thing that comes with upfront costs to him politically and spends his political capital. So I'm not sure I understand. You know, to me, if you're paying the. If the blowback is coming already from the blockade, send the planes in and finish the job because you're paying. You know, it's like, it's, it's, it's like dragging out your student loan payments or something. You're paying now and the interest is piling up. Just get it done. Because the reprieve is not a political reprieve. This, the ceasefire has not provided a political reprieve for Trump at all because of the blockade.

[Abe Greenwald]

I spend a lot of time wondering why we're in the ceasefire. And there are a few theories. One is, you know, is there a munition shortage? You know, we hit over 15,000 targets. US alone. Israel hit about 4,4500 on their part, so that's almost 19,000 targets. And, of course, we were defending ourselves and our allies from Iranian retaliation. So is it a question of the munitions aren't there, the interceptors and air defenses aren't there? Now, the Pentagon says that's not the case. Okay, so what's another theory? My theory is as costly as the ceasefire is, Trump believes that a resumption of conflict would be costlier. For this reason, Iran has shifted its target. At the outset of the conflict, Iran was directing most of its missiles toward Israel. But as the conflict has developed, and now even into the ceasefire, Israel is not Iran's target, it's the Gulf states. And I think that there is a deep fear that should the war resume, Iran will devote almost all its energies to destroying the Gulf state energy infrastructure. And this would be a suicidal move because it would mean that we would then destroy all the Iranian energy infrastructure. We'd either destroy Karg island and seize it, we'd go after their electric generators, the other dual use stuff. But as bad as the energy situation is now, and it's likely to grow, go, grow worse as the blockade continues, that scenario would send prices even higher. In Trump's mind. Now, this is a hypothetical situation. We really don't know, we don't know what Iran's capacities are. We know that they've been severely degraded. Right. But I think that's what's keeping Trump in this standoff. But he has to realize that it can't go on forever, because for this reason, the Iranians don't care about their population. This guy Vahedi doesn't care. I mean, what does he. He's a radical. He just wants to resist. And so we know what the Iranian government is getting from the ceasefire. They're getting survival and an opportunity to rebuild, like you say. But I'm not sure what we're getting from the ceasefire, other than, as Seth says, paying these upfront costs for, you know, downstream. Downstream effects. There's no question Iran is significantly weaker. And the whole mainstream media idea that they're more powerful than ever is baloney. The danger is that Trump grows tired of this situation and says, okay, we'll do what you want and we'll just punt everything and we'll give you sanctions relief. That, I think would be the worst outcome. But, you know, we're not there yet. And Trump has never really moved in that direction. And just my final point. Is this another reason I just don't. I spend a lot of time wondering why we're doing. What we're doing is. Trump says, well, you know, just yesterday he said, I want to give time for peace, I want to give time for peace. I want to let the negotiations play out. But he knows full well that negotiations are not the way to achieve your objectives with Iran. We had negotiations under Obama that resulted into the jcpoa, which Trump called the worst deal in American history. Rightly, I believe, right. Then Trump moved from negotiations in his first term to maximum pressure. That was getting real results. He withdrew from the jcpoa. He was kind of squeezing the economic vice around the Iranians. Biden then attempts to resume negotiations in his term. They went nowhere because the Iranians were intransigent. And when Trump comes back to office, he starts this negotiation dance. But he realizes the only way to stop Iran from getting a nuclear weapon is to bomb Iran. That's what he did in Operation Midnight Hammer, Right? And that's what he did with Operation Epic Fury. So I think he needs to kind of listen to himself here. If you want Iran to not get a nuclear weapon, you need to use force. And then, by the way, you can say, we're going to walk away. And if we see you attempting to resume the construction of the missile factories and the nuclear facilities, we'll just bomb you. Again,

[John Podhoritz]

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[Matt Continetti]

But so that's apparently an asset so much as they just, you know, they, it seems like they just back channel to him and said would you be interested in well, we don't.

[Abe Greenwald]

Do we even believe the story? Do we even believe the story?

[John Podhoritz]

We don't know.

[Matt Continetti]

But I will say one of the things that. One of the lessons I think from this is the moderating effect that college football fandom can have on a Persian autocrat. Because Ahmadinejad very famously got into American college football, specifically the Michigan Ohio State rivalry several years ago. And since then, you know, he's been. He's. He's obviously been more centered guy.

[Abe Greenwald]

So

[John Podhoritz]

as Matt has often said, football is the great unifier of America, and maybe it's a unifier worldwide. But either way, even if it's. So that's one story. Then there are two other stories. All three stories involve Israelis thinking through what the political next step is after the, you know, the war should be accompanied by. By a political strategy for the overthrow of the regime. There is the idea of arming the Kurds and having them come down from the north or. I'm blocking on the third right now, but there was a third. Anyway, the point is that the Israelis. Is the third leak.

[Abe Greenwald]

The Barak Ravid story.

[John Podhoritz]

Yeah, yeah. Which was. I'm sorry, like a phone call, another phone call between.

[Abe Greenwald]

Another tense phone call between Trump and Netanyahu the other day, right?

[John Podhoritz]

No, but there was another. There was a third strategy at the beginning.

[Matt Continetti]

There was talk of Pahlavi and all that.

[John Podhoritz]

Pahlavi. There's the Pahlavi, this Kurd strategy. Okay, so there were three or four strategies. The point is that the Israelis have been thinking long and hard and deep about what politically can be done to put pressure on the regime internally, to make it collapse from the inside while we're bombing from the outside. And we apparently negged all of those solutions, except if the Ahmadinejad thing happened, we didn't neg that. The thing is that he was either injured in the process of this liberation attempt or went into hiding or was taken prisoner, and he hasn't been seen since. So that didn't work. But we are sitting here.

[Matt Continetti]

Sorry, Mahmoud.

[John Podhoritz]

So we're sitting here without a strategy for regime change. Cuz Trump didn't want to do regime change. He wanted the Iranians to do regime change. And the Israelis are like, well, that's all well and good, but maybe regime change needs a little kick in the ass to get going or some kind of an accelerant to get going. Because there is no. There's also no historical precedent for, like, a national uprising that spontaneously combusts a government. That's not how regimes fall. That's not How Russia fell to Russia fell in 1917. It's not how it happens. It always happens in the capital with a coup or some version of a coup, even if it's the Orange Revolution or something like that. You get.

[Matt Continetti]

And Israelis in the region, the Israelis prefer stability, some. Some measure of stability, right? I mean, they were nervous about Syria because Assad's fall. Had Assad fallen in the early years of the war, it really could have meant, you know, ISIS on, you know, on the border of the Golan. They. So they. They do prefer Egypt was the same thing. So even if they want the Iranian regime gone, the Israelis are very clearly more paying more attention to who would govern the country than Trump is, or more concerned about who would govern the country than Trump. Israel, also.

[Seth Mandel]

Israel doesn't have the historical baggage that Trump is so understandably concerned about with nation building, picking success, or regime managing, rebuilding and all that. He wants the US to have no part of that. Israel has no reason at this point not to try its hand out at that process.

[Abe Greenwald]

I mean, just to go back to Trump's original declaration of war, so to speak, the video he dropped on the early morning of February 28th, you know, most of that text is kind of an indictment of the Iranian regime for its crimes against America, for sowing terrorism, oppressing its people, building this nuclear program, and an explanation that America is going to target its military capacity to remove its ability to threaten us and the region. And then at the end of it, he says, look to the Iranian people, this is your moment. Now, remember the context that we had, these massive protests in Iran beginning last November over the economic consequences of Iranian policy and the sanctions and also Midnight Hammer. And that resulted in one of the, what some experts say is the largest mass slaughtering of a population by a state in, you know, in modern times. Upward of 40,000 people killed by the Iranian government at the beginning of this year. So I think in Trump's mind, there was actually some precedent for kind of a mass mobilization against the government, like we saw with the Green Revolution, like we've seen in the Mahsa Amini protests. Like, you know, like we just saw this year. It didn't happen. And it's worth asking, why didn't it happen? I always thought it would be hard to expect people to come out in the streets en masse when bombs were falling everywhere. On the other hand, it could just be that the Iranian government has been very effective at killing all of the opposition. In fact, one of the downsides of the ceasefire is that the executions have resumed. Yeah, they just killed somebody yesterday.

[Matt Continetti]

The Internet blackout.

[Abe Greenwald]

Yeah, the Internet blackout is continuing the whole time.

[Matt Continetti]

We talk about, like, we've been in the ceasefire longer than the war, but they've been blackout.

[Abe Greenwald]

It's clear that the Iranian people have not seized this chance. Now, what the Israeli strategy seems to have been was, well, you know what? If we can't count on that mass mobilization, what we're going to do is we're going to sow chaos. So let's have the Kurds invade and distract the Iranian army. If Ahmadinejad's story is true, let's get him out, maybe there will be some say it right. And I think Trump is the one there who is very much reluctant to embrace kind of a strategy that would lead to state fragmentation and collapse. I mean, that's, again, why that's been limiting his military strategy. He hasn't taken out all the bridges, he hasn't taken out the power plants. We hit a lot of factories for sure, but we haven't gone after their economic, you know, the actual economic base. He always says, well, I don't want to hurt the normal Iranian people. Israel, on the other hand, I think, understands that if you want to collapse the regime, you need to create a lot of chaos. That's the way to do it. And so we had this missed opportunity because I think of a difference in aims by the two governments, just as right now, again, it's clear that if you want to open the Strait of Hormuz, you need to resume Project Freedom. And in order to do that, you're going to have to resume the military campaign for some period of time so that our naval forces have a envelope through which they can begin escorting ships out of the Strait. But Trump isn't doing that because he seems to believe the status quo is tolerable and the potential consequences of Iranian strikes on Gulf energy infrastructure are not.

[Seth Mandel]

I mean, the terrible irony here is that there were, what, five, six weeks of military operations. Everyone in the US or all the expected parties pronounced it a disaster. And we don't know what we're doing. We have no plan, and we haven't achieved this and we haven't achieved that. None of it was true. It was extraordinarily successful and effective. Then we have the ceasefire that is the source of all these problems. And Trump, I think, sort of just by virtue of who he is, has more tolerance for a messy ceasefire than a successful, aggressive military campaign. And that is why we are stuck here, I think, more than any other reason.

[John Podhoritz]

I mean, it's weird. It's like a reverse Hamlet, you know. The story of Hamlet, as Laurence Olivier said, is a tragedy about a man who could not make up his mind. And so finally, by Act 4 and 5, he starts the plan in motion to avenge his father's murder at the hands of his uncle and succeeds in the end, though he, of course, dies in the process. Here we have Trump going, spoilers, John. All in. All in. All in. All in. To the point that he says, I am going to destroy your civilization. And then something in him says, I believe, oops, I went too far. Ceasefire. Because there was no middle ground between destroying their civilization. And then a couple of, like, conventional strikes to show that you were angry. And now we are in the overhang of the. I blew my rhetorical wad on how I'm wiping out your civilization. Now what do I do? Anything that I restart. This is the other way of looking at. It is gonna look like an also ran. It's not gonna be like epic Fury. Epic Fury was like this day of shock and awe, like the world has never seen. That is not how the restarting of kinetic action against the Iranians will go. It is just essentially the beginning of a new battle. Epic Fury was one battle. Epic continuation will be the next battle. But it's another battle. It's new event. And either he can't wrap his mind around it, or he has decided that the status quo, or he hasn't decided anything. And he is so distractible that while he has staked his entire presidency and his entire historical legacy on securing an outcome in Iran that will look like an American victory, he's off with the ballroom. He's gotta endorse, you know, he's gotta endorse Paxton. He gets into a fight with this one. He's 47 tweets at night last week over. I don't even know what the hell he was doing on Trill Social in that, you know, so he is not focused on the thing. And I keep saying this is a war of choice. There's a whole argument to say it's not a war of choice because inevitably the world was gonna have to engage Iran to get it to end its nuclear program. But he had an opportunity. Their opportunity was handed them the riots inside Iran in November and December, this horrible massacre in early January, and the Israelis coming to him and saying, we have an opportunity to decapitate the regime on February 28th. Let's go. And he said, okay, we're gonna go. And now. So he took an opportunity and I Didn't tell him to take the. I'm happy he did. He did it. He chose to do this. He could have said, nah, we're not gonna do it. He chose to do it. He staked his presidency on it. It's on him now entirely if he wins or loses. Cuz, can we win this? Of course we can win this. We have the world's largest military. We've degraded their military, you know, down to the wires. They can't resist that. They'll fall. It's all in his head now.

[Abe Greenwald]

That's why I have a suggestion, which is, I think we need to make a formal request to Trump, because so far, all of his pivotal decisions on the ceasefire have come at the request of other parties, at the request of Pakistan. That was a couple times. Most recently it was at the conquest of Saudi Arabia and Qatar. And I want that tweet, I want that Truth social to read. At the request of the Commentary podcast, I have resumed Project Freedom and Operation Epic Fury in order to open up the Strait. Thank you for your attention to this matter. Just make the request. That's what we need to do.

[John Podhoritz]

I mean, it is interesting that he finds himself. I mean, I think that's a wonderful, wonderful idea and would do, obviously, would do really great wonders for our advertisers. You know, if you want a nice, you want a good mattress, you gotta. It's a whole new universe for our advertisers. But the point here is that this is so much on him that there isn't even any domestic pressure that we hawks can bring to bear on him to get him to restart. Like Tom Cotton, who I'm sure wants this war to restart. There's no populist force behind Tom Cotton that would let him say, let's go and finish this job, otherwise this country is gonna be humiliated. Like this is, you know, you are. You will be the greatest man in history if you do this. But if you don't, oh, boy, you know, like, goodbye to, you know.

[Matt Continetti]

Hawks around him are nervous at the prospect of seeming overly hawkish, being seen as over promising and talking and giving Trump a reason to say, you talked me into something that I said from the beginning of my presidency I wasn't gonna do, you know, because in terms of when we talk about appealing to Trump, I mean, Marco Rubio, I'm not sure there's anybody he listens to within the administration more than Marco Rubio, who is, you know, every position Waltz also at the UN has been in the inner circle, regardless of what his station is he's been in the inner circle. This has been the case from the beginning. So it's not like you could install someone who. With hawkish views, who could whisper in his ear. But I do think that there is a nervousness on the part of the hawks around him also, because they understand that this is that moment when everybody was like, oh, look, see, the neocons are running Trump, too, and he's going to do Iraq, too. And we noticed in the stories about the attacks that Marco Rubio was, you know, tepid on the idea of regime change and caught, you know, said of the four options, you know, we should really do these two. He agreed with Trump. We should really do these two. I think there's caution all around him and that the effect of having the hawks around him has not made him all that much.

[Abe Greenwald]

I disagree. Trump is a hawk.

[John Podhoritz]

Trump's the hawk.

[Abe Greenwald]

Trump's the hawk here, but the issue is he just thinks that he's gonna be able to get some deal. He thinks that he has the Iranians so dangling from the ledge that he's gonna get this deal after the military thing. And he does, like I've been saying, he's worried about the potential costs of Iranian drones and missile attacks on those energy facilities. But at the end of the day, he hasn't moved from the blockade, and he hasn't moved to give the Iranians the money that they want, because he is the hawk. He does not want Iran to get that nuclear weapon. And by the way, he destroyed the government of one country and then kidnapped the president of another one in two months. That's pretty. And now he's thinking about doing the same thing to a third. So he's definitely a hawk. It's just not just that.

[John Podhoritz]

It's not just that. Because he goes to the Pentagon, right, there's the possibility of military action against Iran. So he's like, basically, what plans do we have? And particularly if we involve the Israelis, what plans do we have? And the military in the person of. Forget Hagseth here, because he's a political actor, but basically, Kane and Cooper say we can do whatever you tell us to go. We go. Here's how we would do it. Do this, we do that, we do the other thing. They're now sitting there with the burden of winning the war, and they don't see the action happening outside of their ambit that is leading to a successful resolution. And they may not, particularly because of munitions and maybe because of just the general feeling that they don't quite know what the mission is. Now. They've probably got a slightly sour expression on their faces when these conversations happen about what to do next. The Pentagon is not what fantasy, leftist, deranged ideas are. The Pentagon is reluctant to use force because it is responsible for the lives of the people who go into battle. They are reluctant to use force. They always want to use overwhelming force because that's the best way to protect our men and women from being injured or hurt or captured or whatever. And I think he's the hawk, but he's also getting vibes from the people who he believes are great and relies on and trusts and even, like, Reveres, maybe like Kane and Cooper, that

[Abe Greenwald]

we'll

[John Podhoritz]

do whatever you want, but you're not telling us what you want. I don't know what you want. Here's a plan. We can destroy their infrastructure. Here's a plan. We can open up the strait. Here's a plan. We can take Tehran. I mean, in theory, here's a plan. We can blow up Pickaxe Mountain and go in and get the. You know, we have to establish a base. It's incredibly dangerous, but we can do it. We can go in and take the uranium out. What do you want? In order of difficulty? It's this, this, this, and this. So you might want to go with the first one instead of the fourth one, but you have to tell us what you want. And he can't make his mind up, as far as I can tell. And therefore, it's. I don't even think it's a hawk, dove thing or.

[Matt Continetti]

Well, I don't consider him a dog. I just mean in terms of what kind of advice he's, you know, who's appealing to him and why. I think that there's. There's plenty of hawkishness in and around him, but he just. This is a quirk of Trump, of Trump and his decision making. And, you know, it's. It's been all along. But the question also is it leaves us wondering, you know, when the first strikes happened last year on the Iranian nuclear sites on Fordow and Natanz, we had this thing where it was like, all right, you have two weeks to come back with a better offer. And then, like, 36 hours into the two weeks, the fighter jets went up. There were a couple times over the course of the past couple years where Trump signaled that he was being patient and waiting and during that period, attacked. And so there's almost been a Pavlovian effect of when he says, like, well, you know, let's have Another ceasefire, maybe we'll have a deal. There's, there's this part of my head that goes, oh, I guess that means we're, you know, bombing the hell out of them in 48 hours or something. Right. That is also part of the delay, which is that when he delays, it's often not been a real delay, it's often been preparations. And so we don't know if that's what he's doing. We, and we can't assume that, you know, he's, we're, you know, we're not saying he's playing 12 dimensional chess, but he has thrown the head fake twice in recent memory regarding Iran and there's no reason to think he wouldn't do it a third time. And that has created its own sort of stasis.

[John Podhoritz]

Listen, the Israelis think he is. I believe the Israelis believe there's a head fake going on because everybody I know in Israel seems to think that the war's about to restart. Maybe it is. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry.

[Seth Mandel]

Regarding Matt's point about these requests that he responds to for new talks, I think each time he gets a request that he grants for one of these resumptions, whoever is giving it to him adds some new sweetener that makes him think, this time they're putting, I hear they want to put this on the line or we're going to be speaking to this party who wasn't involved last time or something like that. Because there was that second Pakistan discussion that never happened.

[Abe Greenwald]

Right.

[Seth Mandel]

Because there was a request and he said, you know what, this is garbage.

[Abe Greenwald]

Well, because the Iranians basically gave us the bird, Arakchi went to Islamabad and then left before we had even taken off. He was like, you're staying home.

[Seth Mandel]

He knows enough, I think, to know, okay, you don't just talk to the Iranians for the sake of talking. But I don't think he is sort of quite hardened enough on the fact that you will never be able to get where you want to be with anyone representing the remnants of that regime.

[John Podhoritz]

Okay. But ultimately the thing is, the question that you have to ask yourself is, is there a bird? Is there something whispering in his ear where he's saying, I think there is a negotiating partner, there is a negotiating partner, but we don't know who that is. And he can't tell us who it is. And somebody is telling him that there can be a deal unless he's making this up in his own head to temporize. But it is possible because this regime is so fragmented, because Iraqi did go to Pakistan and then somebody else told him, get the hell out of there and come home or we'll kill your wife or whatever. We don't know. Vahidi is this. And Arakchi is this, and the elected ones and the IRGC and all of that.

[Abe Greenwald]

The ayatollah is missing.

[John Podhoritz]

The ayatollah's missing. The ayatollah either today declared that the uranium will never leave Iran or he didn't, and that story was made up.

[Abe Greenwald]

So maybe he thinks we do know he's gay. That's the. That's the one thing we don't seem

[John Podhoritz]

to know for sure. Okay.

[Matt Continetti]

Yeah. The Ayatollah. I picture the scene more like in the Princess Bride where Miracle Max puts the thing and shoves it in his throat, you know, and then he squeezes his vocal cords and he says, true love, right? That's.

[John Podhoritz]

Yeah, right.

[Matt Continetti]

So that's what Ayatollah. Uranium or no uranium. And then they throw the thing down his throat and they squeeze his.

[John Podhoritz]

And then he says, okay, well, Matt, you have a recommendation that weirdly ivorate. We're gonna do two recommendations, but we gotta do them fast.

[Abe Greenwald]

Sure, we'll do them fast. Thank you, John. Today I'd like to recommend a Netflix documentary, Life is Short. It's a film by Lawrence Kasdan, director, screenwriter, about his close friend Martin Short, actor and comedian. It's about an hour and a half long. It's worth your time. You learn a lot about Martin Short. I had not known about his marriage. He's a big and to a just a wonderful woman who died about a decade ago of cancer. Martin Short, for someone you know, it's a creator of these amazing characters. Ed Grimley, Franck from the Father of the Bride movies. You know, he starred with Chevy Chase and Steve Martin in Three Amigos. My favorite character of his, the talk show host, Jiminy Glick, a celebrity interviewer. Very outrageous comedian, full of energy, very interesting life. And my only other point about it is I'm fascinated by coterie, as I say often on the show. And it is remarkable the environment from which Martin Short emerged in the late 1970s, early 80s. He's Canadian. He was interested in singing at first, but then got into acting. And his major theatrical start was as part of this cast of Godspell in Toronto, a cast that featured Victor Garber, the Broadway performer Eugene Levy, who is Martin Short's best friend. Another great comic, Catherine o', Hara was involved.

[John Podhoritz]

Gilda Radner.

[Abe Greenwald]

Gilda Radner was involved.

[John Podhoritz]

Paul Schaeffer, Paul Schaefer.

[Abe Greenwald]

Was there. And then from there, from the Godspell crew kind of merged into the Toronto Second City improv troupe. And then sctv. And they incorporated figures like John Candy, Rick Moranis, Harold Ramis. And so you're just going through the list of these young people that were all working together and playing off of each other. And it's basically the roster of comic heroes of my life, all coming from this one place. And I think it's interesting to think about how in different cities, at different times, groups of people form who just. They establish a connection, and they are able to generate just either remarkable intellectual products or artistic products or even scientific products. So the power of coteries comes from the film, which is enjoyable because it's not simply a clip show. Martin Short has recorded hours of home movies, and so the documentary incorporates his home movies. He's just as funny at home as you'd imagine as he is on camera, though. My favorite part is when he's busy doing hijinks with his friend Tom Hanks. And so they give the camera to another one of Martin Short's friends, Steven Spielberg. And so you get to see Steven Spielberg record a home movie. And you will not be surprised. His home movies are better than everyone else's.

[John Podhoritz]

Martin Short also has this. The interesting, funniest guy in the world, tragic life. And he just had a huge tragedy. His oldest daughter died by suicide just, like, six weeks ago.

[Abe Greenwald]

The film is dedicated to her and to the memory of Catherine o'. Hara. So, yes, you can see he had just a remarkable way of kind of going through these tragedies. He lost his eldest brother and both his parents in the space of eight years. He lost his wife, as I said, 10 years ago now, his daughter and one of his closest friends. But he still keeps that smile and keeps us laughing. So he's a pretty remarkable man.

[John Podhoritz]

I just want to say it's the first time that I've seen the Thomas Kuhn theory applied to Canadian comedy.

[Abe Greenwald]

Yeah, well, I'm just.

[John Podhoritz]

Revolutions, you know, which literally comes from this same idea. How is it that this town. How is it this little provincial town in Italy called Florence created the world revolution? And it was because they actually all happened to be there at the same time. Anyway, my recommendation is Run, Don't Walk, because it right now has a closing date of June 14th. A play on Broadway called Becky Shaw. It is by Gina Gianfredo. It was first performed in 2008. So this is a revival. I had never heard of it before. It is the funniest American play that I have seen in 25 years at least, most brilliantly performed and just an absolute stunner of a theatrical experience with two amazing star performances from people you will know. One is, oh, my God, why am I blanking on his name? Patrick ball, who plays Dr. Langdon on the Pit, who plays a kind of unbelievably, utterly empathic, kind of like feminist man. So very different character from the character that he plays on the Pit. And Alden Ehrenreich, who has been like on the verge of stardom for 15 years as a young actor and was solo in the disastrous effort to do a prequel to the Star wars movies

[Abe Greenwald]

centric the Congressional Aiden Oppenheimer congratulating Oppenheimer.

[John Podhoritz]

And he's in Weapons. Anyway, this is his Broadway debut and it is literally one of the best performances I have ever seen. So I sound hyperbolic, but this is. So if you are a theatergoer and you are anywhere near, you run, do not walk. Because it's supposedly closing on June 14, but maybe if it wins the revival. Tony and Ehrenreich wins a Tony. He's also up for it. Maybe it'll. They'll extend its run. But anyway, so think that it's closing on June 14th. That's. What is that? That's like three weeks, four weeks from now. Becky Shaw,

[Abe Greenwald]

some of us will be attending the UFC fight on the White house lawn on June 14th. John. So we might not be able to make.

[John Podhoritz]

Well, then close, but then don't go on the closing date then.

[Abe Greenwald]

Yeah, right.

[Matt Continetti]

Okay.

[John Podhoritz]

So thank you, Matt. As ever, Happy Shabbos. To all who are expecting delicious cheesecake tonight and a night full of study, I will be myself speaking at the JCC in Manhattan at 12:30am on the subject, is America still the golden and Medina? So if you are going to the Tikkun at the JCC in Manhattan, you can come Hear me at 12:30am that's what it's like to do these things on Shavuot. And otherwise we will. So we're off tomorrow and we're off Monday for Memorial Day. So we'll be back on Tuesday. So for Abe and Seth, I'm John Pot Horitz. Keep the candle burning.

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