The Commentary Magazine Podcast: "Kingdom Comey"

Date: September 26, 2025
Hosts: John Podhoretz (Editor), Abe Greenwald (Executive Editor), Seth Mandel (Senior Editor)

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the recent indictment of former FBI Director James Comey, contextualizing it within concerns over the politicization of justice in America, the legacy of Comey’s actions during the 2016 election, and the tit-for-tat escalation of legal battles between political rivals. The hosts critically analyze both the specifics of the case and the wider implications for American political norms and institutions, while reflecting on the right and left’s treatment of their own transgressors.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Comey Indictment: Gravity and Skepticism

• John Podhoretz opens by describing the divided public and media response: some see the indictment as “absurd” while others label it “the beginning of the end of our republic.”
  • "[The idea] that the Justice Department is only just now being weaponized to punish the enemies of the sitting president is so preposterous..." (00:43)
• Views of legal experts, especially Andy McCarthy (National Review), influence the hosts’ wariness over the legitimacy of the charges.
• The unique process of the indictment is noted—Trump’s apparent maneuvering to secure a favorable prosecutor (05:13).
  • "You fired or pressured to...resign the attorney in place in that district and then replaced the prosecutor with...Trump’s personal lawyer...she scrambled to...secure the indictment and got, I guess she got two of the three, right?" (Seth Mandel, 05:13)
• The reliance on process crimes: Comey is indicted for allegedly lying on a federal form (1018), a broad charge many could be vulnerable to.
  • "It is the cheapest form of indictment...because...if you lie on your income tax form...or any form...so it’s like...we can indict you for anything." (John Podhoretz, 13:16)

The Legacy Of James Comey: Hero, Villain, or Martyr?

• Comey's conduct in 2016 is attacked by Podhoretz:
  • For announcing he could have indicted Hillary Clinton but decided not to, rather than simply closing the case or proceeding.
  • "He basically gave the Trump campaign a gigantic boost by saying, I, I'm not indicting her. Obviously it would be better for Trump if he had indicted her, but saying I could have. She's pretty guilty really. But I'm not indicting her because I don't want. Because the bureau needs to be pure, right? Like, are you effing kidding me?" (John Podhoretz, 10:08)
• The irony is noted: Democratic circles largely embraced Comey post-2016, despite his actions likely costing Clinton the election (12:04).
• Podhoretz reframes Comey as a self-serving, grandstanding figure—“must be an intolerable person...”
• Hosts discuss the inevitability of Comey becoming a martyr if the prosecution fails, despite his divisive record.

Weaponization of Process and Legal Norms

• All hosts agree on a trend: the legal process itself is often the punishment, regardless of conviction.
  • "The process is the punishment. So the process is the money. Processes the money. It's also, like, out. You know, it's like...an irresponsible and disgusting political persecution, like, it's the focus of your life. You can't think about anything else." (John Podhoretz, 23:09)
• They discuss how prosecutorial tactics originally reserved for criminals now target political adversaries.
• The escalating cycle is clear: Trump, having experienced the weaponization of legal processes, is now wielding them in return.
  • “Trump is weaponizing the process against his enemies because he experienced the weaponizing of the process against himself. And, boy, did he ever...” (John Podhoretz, 23:11)

Comparative Outrage and Partisan Double Standards

• The hosts point out the inconsistency of prosecuting Trump for mishandling classified documents while Biden escapes similar charges:
  • "So Trump is indicted for it, Biden isn't indicted for it." (John Podhoretz, 25:40)
• Parallels drawn to Comey's own exoneration of Clinton in 2016 and the recent Hur report on Biden.
• Abe Greenwald notes: "There's a kind of weird parallel in Comey's, 'I could have indicted Hillary but didn’t' with the Biden thing." (26:26)

The “Meta” Game of Virtue Signaling and Policing One’s Own Side

• Frustration is articulated over the recurring pressure for conservatives to loudly denounce their own, while the left is less often held to that standard.
  • "There's a fatigue in...feeling like everything Trump does...you know, while it's really good to see conservatives speaking up...it sort of gets tokenized and whatever...that conservatives have a responsibility every day to check in and see what they should denounce from their own side..." (Seth Mandel, 39:40)
• Podhoretz rails against what he calls "Jane Costenization"—the expectation that conservatives must constantly prove their virtue (41:40).
• "If you're not every third minute calling out anti Semites on your side, I'm not interested in getting a lecture from you..." (John Podhoretz, 42:30)

Examples of Policing Extremists: Right vs. Left

• They cite Steve King (R-IA) as an example of the right successfully expelling an antisemite, contrasted with Democratic support for Zoran Mamdani in NYC.
  • "The entire Republican leadership in the House and the Iowa Republican Party and everybody teamed up to get Steve King out of office." (John Podhoretz, 50:03)
  • "Zoram Mamdani is morally no different from being the head of the kkk, as far as I am concerned..." (John Podhoretz, 47:58)

The Perils of Escalating Retribution: Calvinball Politics

• Podhoretz frames the current climate as “Calvin Ball”—where rules are constantly rewritten by whoever is in power (51:40), warning of a dangerous precedent where both parties pursue their enemies with legal tools.
• Mandel worries about Trump’s rhetoric: by describing all prosecutions as partisan, he gives cover for future aggressive partisanship:
  • "Trump sort of paints this picture of this is all the Democrats ever do...which is exaggeration...Trump sort of presents as normal what his opponents are criticizing him of..." (Seth Mandel, 53:27)
• Podhoretz closes with the bleak prediction of escalating, normalized political weaponization, regardless of which party holds power.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the broken norms:
  • “It’s the Overton window question. President of the United States says, I’m going after my enemies. I’m using the powers of my office to go after my enemies openly, as opposed to...the hypocrisy is the tribute that vice pays to virtue quietly...” (John Podhoretz, 33:07)
• On Comey’s 2016 impact:
  • “Comey got Trump elected. He writes an incredibly self-serving book. He fiddle bitches around with the FBI...He’s terrible. Like they should drop him, you know, they should take him on a helicopter to the Aleutian Islands with a backpack...” (John Podhoretz, 10:31)
• On prosecutorial process as punishment:
  • "The process is the punishment. And that’s where we get to why this could be really bad that Trump is doing this. And it’s not just because he’s doing it to Comey, because maybe Comey deserves it..." (John Podhoretz, 23:11)
• On partisan fatigue:
  • "It’s not just horror fatigue, but a lecture fatigue. There’s a fatigue in, you know, feeling like everything Trump does..." (Seth Mandel, 39:40)
• On Calvin Ball politics:
  • “We’re now in Calvin Ball with...political power in the United States. You get it. You nail people for being your enemies. Everyone gets scared.” (John Podhoretz, 51:40)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening and Current Reaction to Comey Indictment – 00:43–03:00
• The Legal Debate: Is the Indictment Flimsy? – 03:00–06:52
• Comey’s 2016 Role and Self-Image – 06:52–14:47
• Wider Use of Process Crimes – 14:47–18:27
• Discussion on Weaponized Legal Process – 18:27–23:09
• Process as Punishment/Retaliation Cycle – 23:11–26:26
• Biden, Clinton, and Double Standards – 25:40–28:47
• Comey’s Weirdness and Cultural Image – 28:47–31:05
• Russiagate and the Unyielding Narrative – 31:05–33:07
• Overton Window: The New Normal in Political Prosecution – 33:07–36:38
• Meta Games, Policing Your Own, and Fatigue – 39:40–44:38
• Policing Extremists: Party Comparisons – 47:04–50:38
• Calvin Ball Politics and Future Dangers – 51:40–53:27

Tone and Style

The conversation is energetic, at times exasperated but always intellectually rigorous. The hosts use sharp, informal language and cultural references (e.g., "Calvin Ball," "Heaven’s Gate") to illustrate their points, with frequent sardonic asides and pop culture analogies. Their camaraderie and collective history provide a backdrop for open disagreements and robust debate.

Final Thoughts

The episode ultimately paints a pessimistic view of the future of American justice and political life, warning of a spiraling cycle of retribution and a loss of faith in institutions. While the Comey case stands at the center, its greatest import may be as a symbol of how far the process of politicizing justice has already gone—and how difficult it will be to steer back.