A (1:55)

Yes, that's exactly the point that my friend's rabbi friend was making, that God was sending a message to Robert Kraft to maybe make a better commercial next year. So if you didn't watch the commercial very briefly, a kid walks down the.

B (2:12)

Hallway in a school.

A (2:14)

Very unprepossessing, dirty.

E (2:18)

Nebuchy.

A (2:19)

Nebuchy. Right. A Nebuchy kid walks down a hallway in school. But, you know, someone tries to hip check him into the locker. He opens his locker and there he.

B (2:31)

Sees the words dirty Jew on, on his book. And then a hand comes and puts.

A (2:37)

A blue sticky on top of the sticky that said dirty Jew. And he said, don't believe that.

B (2:44)

And then he looks over and there's.

A (2:46)

This nice black kid. And they, he says, thanks, man.

B (2:52)

And then it says, you know, blue Square initiative.

A (2:55)

Because what you're supposed to do, not that the ad explains this, by the.

B (2:59)

Way, which is another really wonderful quality.

A (3:00)

Of the ad, is you're supposed to go on Instagram and put up a blue square. Because remember when after Black Lives Matter.

B (3:09)

Everybody was told to put up a.

A (3:11)

Black square on a certain Tuesday to.

B (3:13)

Show that you were in solidarity With Black Lives Matter.

A (3:17)

Well, now you're supposed to put up a blue square to show you're in solidarity with. I don't even even know what is it. Don't call a kid a dirty Jew. Fine. Okay, great.

B (3:28)

Mazel tov to you, Yashuko. That's really great.

A (3:31)

Okay, so there are 10,000 ways in.

B (3:34)

Which we can interpret this ad.

A (3:36)

I don't know anybody. That's the weird part is I don't know. It's hardly anybody that I know that was not puzzled, offended, or grossed out.

B (3:47)

Or made angry by this ad.

A (3:50)

So anybody want to go with why?

B (3:52)

Can we start with the why?

A (3:54)

The ad hit people viscerally as exactly.

B (3:58)

The wrong message at this moment.

C (4:00)

There's so many reasons. I'll just go with one.

E (4:03)

Like, did they screen it to a group of people?

A (4:06)

I'm going to talk about that. I'm going to.

E (4:09)

And who approved this?

A (4:10)

I'm gonna talk about that.

E (4:12)

Okay.

B (4:12)

Okay.

A (4:13)

So I want to just have the reaction. Then I'll tell you what the reaction of the blue square people has been.

B (4:19)

To the criticism, because it's very interesting. But, Abe, what's wrong with it?

E (4:23)

I. I'll.

C (4:24)

I'll just go with one and we, we can go around. Okay. I'm sorry if I'm yelling. My dog is going crazy, so I'm trying.

A (4:30)

Can hear. Can hear.

B (4:32)

Can't hear.

D (4:34)

She didn't like the ad either.

C (4:35)

Yeah, exactly, because it shows the kid with no ability to defend himself at all. That's merely one aspect of the horror. Relying on someone else, or not even having someone else come in to sort of, you know, just console him. The other is that this is not really how antisemitism functions out there among American students and on campuses today. It's. It's not about that.

F (5:10)

So it struck me as being really boomerish, because if. If you really wanted to show what would happen to a Nebuchadnezzi Jewish high school boy, he would be getting attacked on social media platforms by people who he knew. And everybody would walk down the hallway like nothing had happened. But I'm with Abe. No, no agency, as they say. For the victim, it was just, I have to go to my locker and wait for someone to rescue me. And that is not. That's not an appropriate message.

E (5:35)

I'm going to try it in a more sensitive area. I'm not sure. I haven't followed the online discourse about this, but the kid who comes in and puts the blue square over the dirty Jew sticker is a black kid. And that struck me as a poor reflection of the reality that we've seen play out since 2023, when we, I think a lot of Jews, including the adl, the Anti Defamation League, realized that most of the Jews, 85, 90% of the Jews, had been for DEI for the past 15 years, but that after October 7, DEI was not actually for the Jews. DEI was against the Jews and part of the complex promoting anti Semitism. And so that struck me as a pretty poor choice for this ad. I also think the ad was. It hit the wrong notes because there's a real debate among Jews right now about whether we should actually be continuing the fight against antisemitism in these ways. And, you know, Bret Stephens just gave these remarks about the state of world Jewry that I.

A (7:07)

Which will be Commentary's cover story in the March issue, which we will be closing tomorrow, and we'll be online on Wednesday.

B (7:14)

Okay, go ahead.

E (7:15)

I thought, like, we should. Should we print the transcript of these.

A (7:20)

Remarks and we are.

E (7:21)

Okay. And the upshot is we should not be trying to fight antisemitism, because the best way to fight antisemitism is to recommit ourselves to Judaism, to practice Judaism and to be more Jewish. And that is the agency that this kid would have had put on a yarmulke, practice Judaism, practice marry somebody Jewish, raise Jewish children. And the end.

D (7:50)

Seth, there's an AI. Somebody made an AI version of the commercial where the story continues. Instead of somebody coming up and saying, don't listen to them, he tears the dirty Jew sticky note off his bag. And then you see him go through life as he grows up and he goes to college and, and then he has a family, and you see him, you know, at Friday night Shabbat dinner, and then you see him in grad school, and then you see him become this, like, kind of incredible brain surgeon or, you know, something. And at the end of the commercial, he saves the guy, the life of the guy who, way back in high school, put the dirty juice sticky on him. And the guy, the patient, writes thank you on a sticky note and hands it to him very, very much like the plot of, you know, Israel and Yaya Sinwar, I guess. But. But the, but like, you know, you could. You could do all these different things with it. But, you know, the. The basic problem is that nobody, I mean, I, I agree with Abe on this in the. In the sense that the biggest problem is that who see nobody sees this in their daily lives. And so it's kind of like, sure, it's like People. It got people's attention in focus groups and stuff like that because it's weird and unusual, not because it's really move. That's my feeling about it. Which is like, people watch this and said, is that what happens? Or the kids get a dirty Jew sticky note, you know, put on their backpack. What he could have done is shown, you know, a Columbia encampment on the quad, and that would have shown. That would have taken some real guts. And that was something that included what the ADL as well agreed was anti Semitism. Like, there's a. There's a consensus that these pro Hamas nicks, you know, somebody on campus wearing an Abu Obeida hoodie and chanting for the next attack to be in Tel Aviv is not something that could be misinterpreted by anybody. And there were all these scenes of absolute, you know, just insanity that weren't like, well, we can argue over whether from the river to the Sea is a call for this or a call for that. There were all these explicit scenes of like, genocidal, psychotic anti Semitism that he could have shown real people. And maybe he doesn't want to do that for legal liability. But it's like, that's what we encountered. Okay, that's what. In high school.

F (10:26)

But in high school, what he should have shown is a bunch of young friends, men hanging around, talking and then showing each other, you know, something they see on TikTok or Instagram Reels. That's a. That's a very anti Semitic bit of information. And the kid having to decide whether to say something or to just accept that kind of ambient antisemitism that is seeped into culture for young men at the high school level. It's the jokes, it's the references. It's the Carl, it's, you know, it's the Tucker Carlson Fuente stuff. Do you sit by and just kind of smile and nod and don't rock the boat, or do you stand up? And as Eliana said, be. We say, no, that's. That's not right. Because that's actually where I think the young men in high school, they're not getting sticky notes put on their backpacks. They are having to tolerate a certain level of antisemitism that is accepted among their peers as normal when it shouldn't be.

A (11:12)

Okay, here's my problem. The problem is not that somebody goes and there's a message, an anonymous message in their, you know, private. In their drawer, in their locker, or like in the mail or on their front door with a sticky note.

B (11:29)

That says dirty Jew.

A (11:32)

The thing that made the response to 10-7-DENT is that it was full frontal. And everybody who is doing it, we know their names. They're not hiding. They're not like, oh, you're a dirty Jew. I'm not even going to say who I am because I don't want to get into trouble. They're like, my name is Phil Smith and you're a dirty Jew. My name is Mohammed Atta and you're a dirty Jew. My name is Francesca Albanese and you're a dirty Jew. My name is Kenneth Roth and you're a dirty Jew. It's not that there. It's an anonymous whispering campaign that makes Jews feel less than. It is a straight on head on attack on our legitimacy as people, on our existence, and on everything that we believe and stand for and saying that. The problem is that it's making people feel bad. The issue isn't that it's making people feel bad. It's that universities and workplaces and other places, or particularly universities are, are denying Jews their civil rights under the Civil Rights act by treating them differently and allowing people to treat them differently and not intervening and interceding. So this ad is about, how can you people out there be nicer to us because you're making us feel bad. And so here's what you should do. And this is the other weird incompetency.

B (13:14)

Of the ad, though.

A (13:15)

I don't care. It's like, so the black kid puts the sticker on top of the dirty juice sticker and it's the blue sticker. And then you're supposed to put up a blue square on your Instagram. It doesn't say.

C (13:30)

But John, don't forget, he puts it also. He puts it on himself, right?

B (13:34)

Yeah.

A (13:34)

Doesn't say, hey, put a blue sticker on your Instagram. The whole thing is about creating consciousness of the idea of the Blue Square because the organization, which used to be called the Fight Against Antisemitism, rebranded itself as the Blue Square Initiative. So in fact, it's not an ad about antisemitism. It's an ad about raising the profile of the Blue Square Initiative. It is a solipsistic effort to gain market share for your organization to combat antisemitism as opposed to the ADL or other or other organizations. That's actually what's going on in my view, sub rosa. Now, why would they do this ad, Particularly as Elian One of the other things is we've been spending two and a half years now, or almost two and a half years after October 7th, talking about how Jews should respond. And the general feeling in the Jewish community is not only that it turns out that all these people on the.

B (14:43)

Left aren't allies, but that they're enemies.

A (14:46)

And then what are we supposed to do?

B (14:47)

Are we supposed to arm ourselves? There's the whole, there's the whole idea.

A (14:51)

That Jews should go and like basically turn them, turn the entire American jurisdiction, turn itself into a self defense organization that is willing to, you know, like, not only stand up, but like fight back in some fashion against these acts.

B (15:07)

Of aggression that sometimes are really are physical. Like the kind of like punching incidents in Borough park and places like that.

A (15:14)

That's where the conversation has headed in the Jewish community.

E (15:19)

So yeah, who was it who said, hey, the black square posting on Instagram was really great and we should have a parallel movement in the Jewish community because that did a lot.

A (15:35)

You know who. Dumb nonprofit Jews who work in the nonprofit Jewish community, all of whom are focused on dumb horse performative.

D (15:48)

There's a really, there's a really interesting answer to that. There's a really interesting answer to that, which is that they. The answer is that they, they. The ad, the ad is appreciated, whatever you want to call it, by non Jews and hated by Jews. That's, that's.

A (16:08)

We have no evidence that it's appreciated by non Jews. That. I want to go into the response. I want to go into.

D (16:13)

All right, well, I, I'm, I mean, they, they're, from their perspective, they ran focus groups and they came out and said, this is what happened when they ran the focus groups. And the ADL came out and said.

A (16:24)

Hold on, let me, let me, let me.

D (16:26)

I'm dealing with their claim. Their response is right.

A (16:29)

So let's talk about their claim.

B (16:31)

Okay.

A (16:32)

The head of the Blue Square Alliance Against Hate, by the way, let me point out, this was called the Group to Combat Anti Semitism. They changed the name to the Blue Square Alliance against hate. Remember after October 7th, the idea what the problem is not hate. It's Jew hatred. It's not hate. We're not against hate. You can't be against hate. Hate is a human emotion. This was about hating Jews. And if you are universalizing the idea of hate, you are already conceding horribly that the problem is not specific targeted efforts against the Jewish people, but an atmosphere of hate. And that is deeply offensive, period. And it's a shonda that it was done in the first place, that they backed off, calling things anti Semitism or Jew hatred instead to universalize it. Which they did probably because they went and they had focus groups. And when they said, do you care? Do you hate hate or do you hate anti Semitism? And six people in the focus group said, we hate hate. And three people said, we hate anti Semitism. And three people drooled and then they had, oh, my God, it's a 60% support for the hate as opposed to anti Semitism. I've been. I've done a lot of focus groups. I've been involved in a lot of focus groups. And the idea that you glean actual information from focus group responses to things is so comic that it beggars description. Like, if you watch focus groups of people who are not involved in the issue that they're being asked to, they. Their opinions are very, very thin or very, you know, it's like, do you like this or do you like that? Well, I guess I like that one a little more than this one, but it's like, I wouldn't have anything to do with either. What happens is that people. People want something and they use focus groups and they. And they ask questions in certain ways in focus groups to get the response that they need. So that the patrons, like, this is the people who run the Blue Square initiative, the people who are giving them money, they can go to and say, look, we have all this data that shows this is how we should do it. It's the way they want it to do it in the first place. Because what do they want to do? Do they want to fight anti Semitism? No, they have some deranged idea in their head that they can reignite the Jewish black allyship system. And that by showing this black kid being nice to a Jewish kid, suddenly now will all be friends again. And it's okay. Ayanna Pressley doesn't exist and Cori Bush doesn't exist and the world of black antisemitism doesn't exist. And you know what's. What really, what's really nice is the tall. You know, it's like my bodyguard. So it's my bodyguard, only instead of Adam Baldwin being. It's a nice tall black kid with a fro who seems very gentle and lovely protecting the Jewish kid.

E (19:35)

Kraft was. Kraft actually did like a press tour about this. He was on CBS in a segment that I watched. And this is what I mean about it not reflecting reality. He says, like we're sponsoring. I might get some of this wrong because I don't remember exactly, but it's fakacta. Like, he says, oh, we're Sponsoring dinners. And we're getting, you know, we're gonna have Jews talking to black people, and they're gonna start understanding each other. Like, he's the first person to ever come up with this idea. And then the interviewer, who's, like, so credulous, oh, what a wonderful idea, asks and would you invite Palestinians to this dinner? And he's like, oh, I'd love to. It would be so great because we just get people with different views sitting around a table and starting to understand each other. Like, it is just. It is so ridiculous. So ridiculous and so not the way that the world actually is.

A (20:31)

And that is why God breathed in air into the nostrils of the Seattle Seahawks defense and sacked and sacked Drake May seven times. I mean, there's that.

D (20:43)

That response, though, even if we, I mean, I think we should take. Their response is interesting in its own right, which is, I think, the debate in miniature, right? They say non Jews, like the. I'm going to use like, instead of appreciate. But you know, you know what I mean when I say, like, that it's effective on them or it hits the right notes or it tugs at their heartstrings, or they have the right response afterwards, the next time they see anti Semitism, whatever you want to say, let's call it like, non Jews like it, Jews hate it. This is the ongoing, you know, Dar Horn people love dead Jews concept, right? I mean, the fact that non Jews. And I'm going to say this, and I know they're going to hate hearing this, but the fact that non Jews liked or appreciated the ad should set off alarm bells because there is this dichotomy. There is this that. That Jews don't like the idea that they are fish out of water, flopping around until some nice gentile picks them up and puts them back in the lake or something. That. But that the, the. Everybody appreciates the weak Jew. Everybody has a special place in their heart for Tevye the Dairy Man. And, you know, the Jews who get their homes burned down and, you know, run out of, you know, Eastern Europe in pogroms and stuff like that. They don't love the Jews who, you know, have a really powerful army, which I don't like. The Jews that, you know, have influence and all this other stuff. But that's what I think is the, the key is that they should. They should flags in their own research, because however they're testing it, is testing it in a way that is reinforced.

A (22:30)

I don't trust the testing is my point.

B (22:32)

I'm now going to go to an important piece by Haley Cohen, which is.

A (22:36)

An e. Jewish philanthropy. She's a. Which is. Which the. Explains the. The idea behind the ad. Okay, so here's what Adam Katz, who.

B (22:53)

Runs the Blue Square alliance, said.

A (22:57)

He said the group conducted a randomized controlled experiment between February 5 and February 6, where about a thousand viewers saw the group's ad and a control group.

B (23:06)

That saw an unrelated ad.

A (23:07)

The survey research, according to the ADL, which helped do this research, found that the group that saw the antisemitism ad said they were more notably likely to, quote, think anti Semitism is a serious problem, interrupt friends or family who make anti Semitic comments and feel more motivated to fight anti Semitism.

B (23:28)

Katz told Jewish Philanthropy that the commercial.

A (23:31)

Was also tested for audience reaction by.

B (23:33)

The Blue Square Lounge before it aired.

A (23:35)

They made tweaks to the ad so it resonate more closely to viewers disengaged with the issue of anti Semitism. Quote, our research goes very deep into who the super bowl audience is. What do they know? What do they not know? And we see very concerning data points.

B (23:48)

Around the awareness, visibility, and concern about anti Semitism.

A (23:51)

It's just not on their radar. We're Talking about over 100 million Americans classified as unengaged on the topic who just don't see anti Semitism as a.

B (23:59)

Significant problem, as their problem to solve, or something they can have an impact on.

A (24:03)

That's our audience. We start by coming up with lots of different content and put those concepts in front of a testing audience, which.

B (24:11)

Is representative of our target audience of unengaged.

A (24:14)

And by the time the ad was finished, it was, quote, tested many times in raising awareness, empathy, and ultimately raising attention to become an ally. It was an effort to create allyship that feels approachable, such as in a school setting. And that the phrase dirty Jew has now been used a lot more on social media. Okay, you know what? Here's my point. First of all, this is a fishy explanation. The ADL survey is done on the 5th and 6th of February. Today is the 9th of February. The ad was already in the ether, I think on YouTube and stuff the day the ADL tested it. So do you test an ad that you've already booked on the super bowl, two days before the super bowl, when you've already released it to the public to see you're not testing anything. I don't know what they tested or didn't test. It didn't matter. The test wasn't going to have any effect on the ad. And if it did, it was only Going to tweak two seconds of the ad because the ad was done, it was finished, I saw it on the 6th of February or something like that. So this doesn't pass. There's a smell test that this doesn't pass, Number one. Number two, who's asking for allyship? The word allyship is the red flag. It's not that the viewers liked it or didn't like it. It's that their goal is allyship because people are unengaged and we need to make them allies. Allyship is a bull word which is all about how Jews should go help other people and use all their money and give it to non Jews to show that we're allies or that people who are unenlightened should go and, you know, people, we should go and support other people. Allyship never goes the other way because that's not what the doctrine is. The allyship is leftists saying, you give us money to be leftists. And you know what the leftist cause is? It's not Zionism. The leftist cause is. Let's try to remake this alliance. The alliance from the 1950s and 60s between African Americans and Jews. What a glorious moment in our history. That was when we were all together, walking in lockstep.

B (27:02)

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A (29:58)

Quince.com/comply Commentary There's a, there's another aspect.

F (30:04)

Of this though that I think speaks to what Eliana cited Robert Kraft saying on cbs. And it's, it's a dilettante effort. It's a wealthy Aspen ideas type thing of we're all going to have dinners together. We're going to, we're going to cultivate allies, we're going to put this stuff on Instagram and this will have an impact on antisemitism. I don't question their motives trying to raise awareness and whatnot, but the means they choose and the way they talk about this problem shows absolute disregard for real life and also a disregard for, as you say, John, what actual Jews would say to the problem of anti Semitism, how it's defined by them. But it's the having dinners with lots of people around the table and you know, the virtue signaling of putting this square everywhere that strikes me as the effort of a well intentioned but bungling dilettante who doesn't really understand the really, the deep and disturbing nature of this.

C (30:59)

Problem, I just want to point out there's something else. I mean this is all to sort of emerge from what everyone is saying here, but another aspect of this very anachronistic spot because to me it sort of looks like like a special episode of Happy Days. You know, like Fonzie helps out the Jewish boomer.

A (31:20)

Christine said it had a boomer. Like there's no 15 year old like this in the world.

F (31:24)

I would like that if it had the Fonz as a cameo.

C (31:28)

Another, so another aspect of how this gets the, the present moment so wrong. John, as you say correctly, the anti Semites are not anonymous at all. They're in, they're in your face. They do, however, sometimes disguise their anti Semitism as anti Zionism. That's a massive issue here. Completely goes untouched by this campaign, by this commercial. It's just not on their radar at all. And it's a huge part of the actual problem as it now is manifested.

F (32:06)

This is such an important point because if it was a more accurate ad, the sticky note wouldn't have said dirty Jew. It would have said stop the genocide.

A (32:15)

Right? Or, or, or, or it would have said no. Or, you know, there weren't, weren't enough, you know, there weren't enough of you in the camps.

D (32:24)

Or go into, I would have said child murderer.

A (32:28)

Or.

D (32:30)

They go, they go to the APAC executive's house and they throw red paint and, and baby dolls. You're a child murderer. This is, this is what Jews have had to deal with. You can call it whatever you want, but they, that, that this, this whole like the blood of non Jewish children has been at the center of this whole thing. And you could, yes, Christine's right, you could have taken a moment to even just have an accurate insult on the card and the Jews watching would have gone, yes, that I see every day.

A (33:00)

Okay, let's go back to the explanation by the Blue Square Alliance Against Hate and what they, what they learned from their focus groups.

B (33:14)

According to the ADL, on the 5th and 6th of February. Okay.

A (33:20)

They found, remember this is last week, this is the 9th of February that we're talking. So the 5th and 6th was Thursday and Friday. Okay. They found the group that saw the antisemit Semitism ad said they were more notably more likely to, quote, think anti Semitism is a serious problem, interrupt friends or family who make anti Semitic comments and feel more motivated to fight antisemitism. How do they know that? They asked this question on Thursday and Friday is There any evidence that they. What was the question? Will you interrupt your friends and family when they say something anti Semitic? Yes, yes, I will. I will interrupt my friends and family when they say something anti Semitic. What kind of horseshit is that? I'm sorry to keep saying horseshit and bullshit, but like, my head is coming off. That is not real. That is garbage, nonsense research where you are asking phrasing a question. What are people supposed to say? No, I'm not going to interrupt my friends and family when they say something anti Semitic in front of me. Who wouldn't say no, they know.

D (34:33)

They, because they follow that they follow them around with those creepy ring dog cameras that, that scan.

A (34:41)

Okay, you're now making it. Yes, reference to one of the weird.

F (34:44)

Weirdest ad on the Super Bowl. Thank you.

A (34:47)

Okay, let's. We'll interrupt this for a second. So ring cameras is like if you lose your dog, you know, we do, we use the image of the dog and then we look for your dog through our ring camera all over your neighborhood and find it the way we'll find you.

F (35:06)

Well, so two of my neighbors didn't.

A (35:08)

Realize on where to put the garbage.

F (35:11)

This is your. Everybody who I know on my block who has a ring camera went and reread their terms and conditions. They're like, wait, they can search through our cameras without us agreeing. I'm like, oh, you agreed. You agreed.

A (35:24)

I mean, the advertising on this, on this super bowl was so Aldous Huxley terrifying that I can't, you know, the. There were 70. You know, every year there's some industry, new industry that like spends $100 million on Super bowl ads and then disappears the next year. There was a lot of crypto advertising a couple of years ago, you know.

B (35:49)

So that people then I sue, bought a lot of crypto and just had their shirts like, lost their shirts last week in the crypto crash.

A (35:56)

But so this week, this, this time.

B (35:58)

It was AI you know, advertising about AI and what AI can do for you.

A (36:02)

And it was, you know, I wouldn't say that what it did was make me a lot more comfortable with A.I. i, I, maybe I come at this, you know, with already inherent bias against. But if that's what.

D (36:17)

No, if we've already skipped ahead to dog facial recognition, then we've skipped a step that I was afraid of was coming.

A (36:25)

That's not even the, the AI stuff was like, don't worry, our AI isn't going to feed you to a cougar prostitution website because we won't have ads the other AIs you've also never heard of. They're going to have ads and when you ask a question, they're going to send you to a website with a 60 year old prostitute. I'm like, what? So I'm supposed to go to you in order to prevent this thing?

F (36:55)

Ageism is a real problem in our society. You should not mock it.

A (36:58)

Okay, I'm not saying it's not anyway. But just so just to close the circle on the Blue Square Initiative, here's what they want.

B (37:07)

They want allyship.

A (37:11)

They want the world to understand that Jews are feeble, incapable of self defense, don't know how to stand up for themselves and need somebody else who's taller and better looking and more socially acceptable to serve as their blocking tackle. Now I'm glad that it's called the Blue Square Initiative Against Hate because I don't want the word Jew anywhere near this. And I don't want these people speaking for me or my people. And I don't want them to have any idea. I don't care what focus groups they do and what nonsense they peddle in these focus groups which as I say are incredibly twistable. Like any push poll to make, they are peddling an agenda that is an effort to strengthen the Jewish left's idea that what we need to do is go into alliance with left, other left wing activists and therefore what we're going to end up doing is not talking about Israel, not talking about anti Semitism, but talking about allyship. And Adam Katz, the head of the Blue Square Alliance Against Hate. Was appointed last year. And the announcement of his appointment tells me that what he is, is a classic corporate TED Talk. You know, Go is on a lot of committees where they discuss what proper good HR rules should be type of person. Because he, he was at Wayfair before he did this.

B (39:07)

So he isn't like actually he's a Wayfarer, which of course makes crappy furniture. I'm sitting at a Wayfair desk right now. So I'm allowed to say this because I bought a Wayfair desk.

A (39:21)

And then before that he was at the Boston Consulting Group and then before that he was the manager of football administration for the Philadelphia Eagles where he helped manage.

B (39:32)

The franchise's salary cap and player contracts. He has an MBA from the Wharton School. So is this a person?

A (39:44)

I believe no problem is unsolvable, not even hate. But solving the world's oldest hatred and achieving meaningful social impact requires more than good intentions. It requires a modern data driven approach. With my broad experience in the private sector, I understand how to maximize resources, measure outcomes, and scale solutions effectively. In the nonprofit world, these business fundamentals aren't just helpful. They're essential for transforming our mission into sustainable action that encourages and empowers Americans to stand up to hate in ways large and small. We don't care about standing up to hate. This is not about standing up to hate. It's about standing up to people who want to destroy the Jewish community to sideline us, to marginalize us, and to destroy Israel. Hate is not the enemy. Hate is a human emotion. And this guy is full of shit, and this organization is full of shit. And anybody who gives it money should immediately send the money somewhere else because this is disgrace and it hurts more than it helps. And the fact that they peddle this social science nonsense research that is totally corrupted is. You know, I mean, some people fall for it. People fall for this kind of thing every.

B (41:01)

All the. Every time.

A (41:03)

But the problem is not hate. The problem is hatred of Jews. It's specific. It's very specific. And you know what's unsolvable? Hate. You know what is not unsolvable? The security of the Jewish people in the United States and Israel. Because the security in the United States involves the enforcement of laws and the aggressive effort to aggressively stand up against actions against Jews that are harmful, not to wait for somebody to come help.

D (41:38)

And the way I just said, I mean, that was. That is. That is the. That is the point. And just we should spell it out, which is, you know, people going, what do you want? What do we want? The point of combating hate or anything like that is that the targets should just be able to live their lives normally. Nobody's actually asking for. So when you brought up before the. The debate in the community, should Jews be armed? Why is there a debate about Jews being armed? Not because Jews want to go out and put on a sheriff vest and strut around with a handgun, but because they want to counteract and counterbalance the thing that's making it less safe for them to go around. In other words, you add something that puts you back at zero at the normal. We're normal citizens. So if we need, you know, to carry a gun to feel safe, fine. But we're carrying the gun to feel safe, not because, you know, we're going, you know, to shoot fish in a barrel. And the same thing is true with the civil rights stuff. How have we, you know, was. Is the. Is the. Is the black square on Instagram what got, you know, Civil Rights act passed or whatever? Is that, you know, is that like. Is that what broke down the. The. The schoolhouse door that was being blocked by race? Is that what integrated busing is that? Yeah, it's not. It's not a picture of something. The government has laws that you can't violate people's civil rights, so apply those rights to everybody. That's literally all it is and part of. And that, again, it gets us back to zero. It's normal. Nobody's asking for anything special. What we want is to be able to go to school, whether it's a public school or our own private school, whatever it is, our own, you know, Jewish school, and have the same experience as everybody else. Not a sort of elevated sense of, you know, protectiveness, but just totally normal. And the civil rights laws were made to make things totally normal. You, a young black child, could go to school here, or you could go to school here, and nobody was allowed to throw you out of the building for it. And, you know, all this other stuff, you. That's. That's the essence of all this. And one of the reasons that certain parts of the Jewish community are uneasy about this is because they are uneasy about Trump, and they don't like being on Trump's quote, unquote side, and they don't like being associated with the bad press of, you know, the person who got deported for writing an op ed alongside the person who really needed to get deported, which was Mahmoud Khalil, you know, and all this stuff, the casting a wide net and all this, the fight with the. With the universities, all that stuff. But it all comes down to either you believe in federal enforcement of the rules on the books, or you don't. And if you believe in the. In the enforcement, you believe in them for everyone, or you believe in them for no one. You can take a libertarian approach and say, you know, I'm Rand Paul and I don't really like the Civil Rights Act. Actually, I've had misgivings about it, and here's why. But otherwise, everything is about bringing things back to an equal playing field. It is not about some kind of, you know, some kind of.

B (45:05)

Of.

D (45:05)

Of war at which different groups are battling for the upper hand. And the Jews have it now, and that stuff.

B (45:15)

Little bit of history for you. It took us a long time to decide to do this podcast. Our old colleague Noah Rothman wanted to. I did want to. I was very skeptical. I was nervous about starting a new effort at Commentary. How would we do it? Is it the right decision? What if it doesn't go? What if it makes us look foolish, all that uncertainty. But making that leap was one of the best decisions we ever made here. And you know what? Over time, Shopify has helped ease some of our worries with its expertise, helpful tools and and easy to use platform that has helped us so much in our e commerce. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names to Commentary magazine, which of course is a household name for you. Get started with your own design studio. Accelerate your efficiency. Get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you. Best yet, Shop. Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. It's time to turn those what ifs into Ka Ching Shopify. Today is your way to do that. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com commentary go to shopify.com commentary that's shopify.com commentary did you.

G (46:46)

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A (47:42)

Let me just amend this a little.

B (47:44)

Bit because okay, you're saying a level playing field or like getting back to zero if there ever was a zero. But let's say there was basically a mo.

A (47:53)

You know where like that's what the.

B (47:55)

Shift was after October 7th was suddenly this atmosphere in the United States that was unlike any atmosphere that I've felt in my 64 years. Fine. Okay.

A (48:07)

Jewish self defense is about deterrence. In order to get back to zero, there have to be two things.

B (48:15)

One of which is this.

A (48:16)

You know, this. The fact that these attitudes like whatever the, this, this population of anti Semites.

B (48:24)

Crawled out from under a rock from either where they've been hiding or, or they've been brainwashed over 20 years or something like that.

A (48:31)

So what do you do with that? Well, you, you can try to change.

B (48:34)

That, which is the.

A (48:35)

Let's fight hate and we'll, we'll teach.

B (48:38)

People to feel better about Jews.

A (48:41)

How likely is that to happen, really?

B (48:44)

I don't know.

A (48:46)

But that's where Jewish self defense stuff comes in. If you deter not only organizations, but people.

B (48:57)

If the idea is Jews make up a very small amount number of the.

A (49:03)

Population in the United States, but they are not going to put up with being treated this way.

B (49:08)

So they. We have what resources we have to hand. We have a lot of lawyers and.

A (49:14)

We can sue people who do X, Y and Z.

B (49:17)

And we can, you know, we have the federal government which is right now.

A (49:23)

Congruent, has a congruent opinion to our.

B (49:26)

Opinion that it is not right to.

A (49:28)

Treat kids on campus this way.

B (49:30)

So we're going to, you know, encourage.

A (49:32)

Them and work with them to enforce.

B (49:34)

These civil rights laws.

A (49:37)

And it gets down to this question.

B (49:39)

Of honest on this.

A (49:40)

At the street level. Do people want to think twice about going and punching a guy with a keeper in the back of his head because he might have a gun? Which is what the idea of the second amendment is about in many ways. Concealed carry laws which have shown, which are data to suggest that they have.

B (50:04)

That they have lowered crime rates in various places.

A (50:07)

Don't you think that. You think that haredi that you're walking behind is like an easy target? You don't think he's an easy target. You have no idea whether he's an easy target or not. Because he might be. He might be a neurasthenic yeshiva bacher.

B (50:22)

Who does nothing but study all day.

A (50:25)

Or he might have a gun. So you know what you do? Don't punch him in the back of the head.

C (50:30)

That would have been a good commercial.

A (50:33)

Thank you.

C (50:34)

The yeshiva student with the gun.

A (50:35)

Yeah. I'm just saying deterrence. If hate is the problem.

D (50:40)

And you'd call new square, not blue square.

A (50:46)

I just did a rim shot.

F (50:49)

I don't wanna that.

A (50:50)

Okay.

F (50:51)

That was the best joke.

A (50:52)

Yeah.

D (50:53)

Okay.

F (50:53)

Can I want to stand up? Actually it's not to hate, but maybe it is because I want to get. We started this conversation on our text chain and then we had to break it off to come here and record which is the super bowl halftime show. Because I'm very conflicted about this particular halftime show. And as grateful as I am not to see a woman my Age spinning around a stripper pole this year and I'm learning Spanish. So I was kind of happy to see what words I could pick up from Bad Bunnies Act. I also realized that our country has become, with the super bowl halftime show, way too polarized. I mean, look, I would. If it was. If I was the designer of the show, I would just have Fugazi reunite and do an entire set, and half the country would hate that too. But what I really dislike is that now there's this alternative.

A (51:38)

90% of the country would hate that.

F (51:40)

Okay, well, they're just wrong. But there's now this alternative super bowl show, which is like the respondent to the State of the Union address, where it's become totally politicized. And, you know, good on Kid Rock for getting up there and trying to rally the crowd. But I hate that it's become so divisive. And I guess that's why I either bring back the marching bands and the variety show type thing they used to do, but I don't know, maybe you guys loved it. It was just. It became instantly political the moment he started singing.

C (52:11)

I think Bad Bunny might have turned around the midterms for the Republicans.

F (52:19)

Okay, so you're on the.

A (52:20)

Didn't like that. It's like, I thought it was fantastic. And you want to know why I thought it was fantastic? I sort of know. I know Spanish a little bit. I couldn't make out any of it. So I assume that even Spanish speakers can't necessarily make out a lot of it. I just thought it's the first time they made a halftime show that was actually created for the audience at home. They didn't care about the stadium. The whole thing is taking place in this cornfield down on. I'm sure no one who was actually in Levi's Stadium in San Francisco.

D (53:03)

Sugar cane, I think.

F (53:03)

I think it's sugarcane.

A (53:04)

Sugar cane. I'm sorry, sugar cane. Anyway. But it was like no one could have seen anything because it was all done to a handheld, you know, aimed at a close up handheld camera as he walked through the sugarcane maze. And there were various, you know, bodegas and paragua ice stands and stuff like that. And I loved it. And my thing is, you are hearkening back to an age that does not exist. Because what made the super bowl halftime show a legend, do you remember? It was nothing. And then they started having slightly. Then they decided to have you two.

B (53:46)

Do a show in tribute to 9 11.

A (53:50)

That was before that.

B (53:51)

It was like there was like a.

A (53:52)

Motown medley and there was this, and there was that. So what was the thing that made.

B (53:56)

The Super Time Show, super bowl show, like, a legend?

A (54:00)

It was the wardrobe malfunction. It was when Justin Timberlake tore off Jennifer Lopez's outfit and her nipple was Janet Jackson.

F (54:10)

Janet.

A (54:10)

Janet Jackson. Excuse me.

B (54:12)

Not Jennifer Lopez.

A (54:12)

Okay, so that was 23 years ago. So it's never. It's always been a subject of social controversy, as has the super bowl, because remember how dirty the ads used to be? Remember, the ads were like, nearly pornography for years. Like, the way they would sell these ads was they were sort of nearly pornographic because they knew the audience was, like 80% male and stuff like that. So whether. Whether it was excessively political may be another question. I mean, but it was better than Kendrick Lamar.

B (54:53)

I'm saying, was better than Kendrick Lamar show last year.

A (54:57)

But Abe didn't like it, so. Abe. Abe didn't like it.

B (55:01)

I loved it.

A (55:02)

Seth, boy, can you say something?

C (55:04)

I agree that it was an unbelievable undertaking. Like, you know, it was, you know, incredible feat. It just. It just did nothing for. I'm not mad about it either. I just did nothing for him.

A (55:15)

Okay, but. No, but you said it. You made the joke that it's gonna win the Republicans the midterms.

C (55:21)

Oh, because I think other people are mad about it. I'm.

A (55:23)

Yeah, I don't think anybody who is mad about it hasn't already. Isn't already aligned with voting for the Republicans in the midterms.

B (55:31)

And the polling suggests that there aren't enough of them yet.

A (55:33)

But. Eliana, what did you think?

E (55:40)

I was really much more focused on, you know, the people I was with and the food I was eating. And I don't feel that strongly one way or the other. I will say my mom's from Peru, I speak Spanish, but my general feeling about this was, is it really too much for these people to put on a halftime show in English? Like, that annoyed me.

D (56:08)

And.

E (56:08)

And then to have. I understand Puerto Rico is technically part of America. I get that. I'm not hostile to Puerto Ricans, but, like, wave an American flag and. And then to mention America, the Americas, and. And, like, America is just one of all these other countries and Peru and Chile and Ecuador and America and. No, the super bowl is, like, a big event in the United States of America, which is the greatest country in the world. And I thought that was, like, a tacit political statement that was intended to annoy people like me, and it succeeded.

A (56:47)

Okay, fair enough.

E (56:48)

That bothered me, by the way.

A (56:51)

I noted because, of course, the Olympics.

B (56:53)

Started right on Friday night, and they had the Olympic ceremony. And I gathered. This is. I'd never noticed this before, but they did the parade of the athletes of all the nations.

E (57:02)

Yes.

A (57:03)

And Puerto Rico has its own Olympic team that is separate from the United States Olympic team. They only have one athlete or two.

B (57:14)

Or something like that.

A (57:15)

But every Puerto Rico was its own march by itself. So it is part of the United States or it's not part of the United States.

E (57:28)

I mean, that's their own flag.

A (57:30)

Well, every state has its own flag.

E (57:32)

Yeah.

A (57:34)

I'm just saying. Apparently they've had a basketball team for. For. There's a Puerto Rican basketball team that has played in the Olympics before. But I mean, I was struck by that because of this whole conversation where I also. Very pretty. Said, well, it's part of America, so you can pay tribute to Puerto Rico and all that. It's fine with me. But they have their own Olympic team.

B (57:55)

That's.

D (57:56)

I was always more surprised. I was always more surprised that Canada has its own team.

F (58:02)

Yeah, but we beat him in curling.

A (58:04)

Does Greenland have a team separate from Denmark? That's what I want to know. Because, you know, when we take over Greenland, they are not going to have their own Olympic team that is going to be, you know, and whatever Nook turns into Trumpville, you know, it's.

B (58:17)

They're gonna.

A (58:18)

They're gonna be carrying the Trump flag.

B (58:20)

That's. That's all I can. That's all I can say.

A (58:22)

All right, so we have.

E (58:24)

I should say I was equally. Just as much as the performance itself annoyed me, everybody who loved it so much annoyed me just as much. Starting from a place of total indifference, I just thought it was, oh, my gosh, so great. It was so amazing. I shouldn't care that the guy doesn't speak English and did his thing in sp. And it's so wonderful. And that bothered me just as much as everything else.

A (58:53)

I just thought it was.

F (58:55)

At least he ended with a message as bland and useless as the one that the anti hate campaign. It's like it's all about love.

A (59:03)

Yeah.

E (59:03)

Oh, and love.

A (59:04)

We're all America together.

D (59:07)

Well, there was one. There was one test of. There was one real test during the show of who was. Who loved it and who was virtue signaling. And that was at the. At one point in the show, he hands his Grammy to a small child. And there was a. There were several large accounts on Twitter who spread the idea that the kid who was handed the Grammy during the show was the kid who was in the Famous arrested photo last week or the week before who was separated from his parent and was seen sort of being hustled into almost like perp walked or whatever, you know, into a car. And it turned out that wasn't the real story, whatever. But this. But there was just like this.

A (59:52)

Oh, look.

D (59:53)

Can you believe that? What a stroke of genius. He gave it to that boy. And apparently the. The boy was nowhere near California. No, it wasn't that kid last night, people. So I. I just thought it was funny that like, the people who were really into the political symbolism of it all were like, oh, look, there's a Hispanic kid. It must be the one Hispanic kid whose name I know who was in an ice truck two weeks ago or something. That's how you could tell the difference between people who were watching it for like, this is enjoyable no matter what language it's in or I don't like the music. And the people who were looking who were like putting it under, you know, a microscope to find something that they could consider some sort of political or ideological triumph. And anybody looking that closely at the thing was doing it wrong to begin with. I didn't actually have strong feelings about the show either way. And that made me feel weird because everybody in my timeline seemed to think one way or the other.

A (60:56)

But okay, I enjoyed it. I thought it was fun. I liked the camera work. I liked Lady Gaga doing the Bruno.

B (61:05)

Mars song, which was sort of interesting. In the middle. There was a moment where there was English when Lady Gaga was singing a Bruno Mars Omar song. And then Ricky Martin. Ricky Martin looks really good, by the way. For he's like 55. He looked fantastic.

D (61:18)

That was AI too, probably.

F (61:21)

No, Ricky Martin really does.

A (61:23)

Another thing to point out about the ads. So there were. There were these various AI ads that featured de aging. There was one with the got people from Jurassic park and then there was one with Ben Affleck.

F (61:36)

The Dunkin Donuts ad.

A (61:38)

Yeah, Matt LeBlanc. It was very bizarre. It sort of mixed friends and goodwill hun together. It made no sense. Fresh Prince. But the de aging was horrible. It was like the war. It was like. Talk about not selling a product well. It was like he. Let's show you the uncanny valley. That will mean that you will never actually want to use AI. Here's us trying to make Ben Affleck look like he's 25 years old again.

B (62:11)

Yeesh.

A (62:12)

Or like Sam Neill from Jurassic park, who really.

D (62:16)

That's.

A (62:16)

That was.

D (62:17)

That's what I was going to say.

A (62:18)

The D age.

D (62:18)

Sam Neill was more terrifying than anything in the original Jurassic park movie.

A (62:25)

Yeah, it was just awful. Recommendation before we go Movie out second weekend. Send help. It is a revenge action. It takes a lot of stuff and throws it into a blender.

B (62:44)

Rachel McAdams and a young actor named Dylan O' Brien that probably most of.

A (62:48)

Us haven't heard of end up basically.

B (62:51)

On a deserted island together because they're in a plane crash.

A (62:54)

So it's like Cast Away and Swept Away and Overboard and 10 other different movies. So it's a survival thriller, but mostly.

B (63:06)

It'S a story about what happens when a toxic boss ends up on a.

A (63:11)

Desert island with the employee that he has ritually humiliated.

B (63:17)

And it turns out that she is.

A (63:18)

Far more able as a person on.

B (63:23)

A deserted desert island with no help coming than he is.

A (63:28)

And she has every reason to make life as difficult as possible for him. And it goes in all kinds of wildly unexpected directions. It is really funny.

B (63:43)

It is a black comedy, really. It's also quite thrilling and it's got.

A (63:49)

Some real violence in it, but it is great. It's like the first genuinely, like, wildly.

B (63:58)

Enjoyable movie that I've seen in a long time. And so I really heart. And Rachel McAdams is dazzling and this guy, Dylan O' Brien is dazzling. And so I heartily recommend Send Help at your movie theater right now. So we'll be back tomorrow and I'll curse less.

A (64:21)

I hope so. For Eliana, Abe, Christine and Seth, I'm John Pod Horiz. Keep the candle burning.