The Commentary Magazine Podcast: "New Twists in the Ukraine Saga"

Release Date: May 1, 2025
Host: John Podhoretz
Guests: Matthew Continetti, Christine Rosen, Abe Greenwald

1. Introduction

The episode begins with John Podhoretz welcoming listeners and introducing the panel: executive editor Abe Greenwald, Commentary columnist John Washington, Matthew Continetti from the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), and Social Commentary columnist Christine Rosen. The discussion swiftly moves to the latest developments in the Ukraine saga, particularly the recently signed U.S.-Ukraine minerals and rare earths agreement.

2. U.S.-Ukraine Minerals and Rare Earths Deal

Matthew Continetti opens the discussion by highlighting the significance of the deal between the United States and Ukraine concerning minerals and rare earths. Initially slated for signing in February, the agreement was delayed due to tensions following a contentious Oval Office meeting between Trump and Zelensky.

Continetti [02:02]: "The deal is not reparations. Earlier versions required Ukraine to use some resources to repay the U.S. for aid, but now it's a shared account where both America and Ukraine profit."

John Podhoretz interprets the deal as a potential Rorschach test of U.S. political factions:

Podhoretz [01:17]: "Hawks see this as possible backdoor funding for Ukraine's war effort through mineral deals, while others view it as straightforward repayment for aid provided."

Continetti emphasizes that the new agreement signifies a move towards a forward-looking partnership rather than reparations, suggesting a positive step for American supporters of Ukraine.

3. Russia-Ukraine War Dynamics

The conversation delves into the broader implications of the minerals deal on the Russia-Ukraine conflict. John Podhoretz references insights from Tar General Keith Kellogg, who outlined Ukraine's realistic conditions for a ceasefire and underscored the immense human cost of the war.

Podhoretz [04:50]: "Kellogg stated that more than 1.2 million have died over the last three years, making this an unsustainable conflict for Russia."

Christine Rosen agrees, noting that both nations have suffered devastating losses, leaving neither side with a clear victory.

Rosen [07:00]: "If this were our war, we wouldn't see it as a victory. It's a historical disaster for both Ukraine and Russia."

Continetti points out that Ukraine's military strength has grown, posing a significant challenge to Putin. He also discusses the expansion of NATO with Sweden and Finland joining, and anticipates that Putin is unlikely to seek peace, prompting suggestions for further sanctions.

Continetti [09:42]: "Ukraine now has the largest army in Europe, and an independent Ukraine will continue to bolster its defense capabilities."

4. U.S. Internal Policy on Immigration and National Security

The discussion shifts to internal U.S. policies under the Trump administration, focusing on student visas, green cards, and the legal status of foreign nationals in the United States. The panel examines the case of Mohsen Madawi, a green card holder facing deportation despite controversial statements and legal challenges.

Podhoretz [21:12]: "Madawi was allowing to contest his arrest, treated as a hero by some on social media for standing up against Trump, but the judge highlighted his inflammatory rhetoric."

Abe Greenwald critiques the administration's approach, arguing that the real issue is national security rather than free speech.

Greenwald [24:12]: "The Secretary of State has the right to deport individuals who incite violence and pose a threat, beyond just free speech concerns."

Rosen draws parallels to post-9/11 policies, emphasizing the necessity of differentiating between free speech and actions that threaten national security.

Rosen [28:48]: "Tolerance is essential, but when it crosses into threats and violence, protection must begin."

5. Notable Case: Mohsen Madawi

The panel delves deeper into Madawi's case, discussing the legal intricacies and the broader implications for immigration policy. Podhoretz highlights the judge's dismissal of allegations against Madawi due to a lack of sufficient evidence and questions the thoroughness of the FBI's investigation.

Podhoretz [31:59]: "The judge indicated that the FBI found no basis to act on Madawi's alleged threats, raising concerns about procedural integrity."

Continetti reinforces the need for stringent measures against individuals who pose security threats, regardless of their citizenship status.

Continetti [34:47]: "Every major attack has involved individuals who were already on the FBI's radar. We need robust systems to prevent such threats."

6. Political Analysis of Democratic Party Strategies

The conversation transitions to a critique of the Democratic Party's strategies, particularly regarding their stance on immigration and voter inclusivity.

Podhoretz [44:31]: "Democratic initiatives to allow non-citizens to vote in municipal elections are unconstitutional and threaten the fabric of American democracy."

Continetti expresses concern over the party's alignment with the far left, citing Vice President Kamala Harris's recent speeches and endorsements of progressive figures.

Continetti [48:25]: "Kamala Harris's alignment with the far left undermines the Democratic Party's national viability and disconnects it from working-class voters."

Greenwald echoes the sentiment, emphasizing the need for the party to address antisemitism without conflating it with unfounded claims of Islamophobia.

Greenwald [37:26]: "Tolerance should not come at the expense of ignoring genuine threats. Antisemitism and incitement to violence must be addressed distinctly."

7. Conclusion and Insights

In closing, the panel reflects on the current geopolitical and domestic challenges facing the United States. The U.S.-Ukraine minerals deal represents a strategic pivot in supporting Ukraine while navigating complex international relations with Russia. Domestically, the administration's immigration policies and the Democratic Party's strategies underscore the ongoing debates about national security, citizenship, and party identity.

Podhoretz [42:15]: "If Democrats continue down this path, they risk becoming unelectable on a national scale, undermining the two-party system."

Continetti concludes with a call for the Democratic Party to realign its strategies to better resonate with the working class and restore democratic integrity.

Continetti [51:37]: "The working class sees the Democrats as out of touch. The party must rebuild its connection to these voters to ensure future viability."

Notable Quotes

• John Podhoretz [01:17]: "Hawks see this as possible backdoor funding for Ukraine's war effort through mineral deals, while others view it as straightforward repayment for aid provided."
• Matthew Continetti [02:02]: "The deal is not reparations. Earlier versions required Ukraine to use some resources to repay the U.S. for aid, but now it's a shared account where both America and Ukraine profit."
• Keith Kellogg [04:50]: "More than 1.2 million have died over the last three years, making this an unsustainable conflict for Russia."
• Christine Rosen [07:00]: "If this were our war, we wouldn't see it as a victory. It's a historical disaster for both Ukraine and Russia."
• Abe Greenwald [24:12]: "The Secretary of State has the right to deport individuals who incite violence and pose a threat, beyond just free speech concerns."
• John Podhoretz [44:31]: "Democratic initiatives to allow non-citizens to vote in municipal elections are unconstitutional and threaten the fabric of American democracy."

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from "New Twists in the Ukraine Saga," providing listeners with a detailed overview of the episode's primary themes and arguments.