The Commentary Magazine Podcast: "Taylor Kelce: Dawn of a New America?"
August 27, 2025
Podcast Participants: John Podhoretz (Host), Abe Greenwald, Seth Mandel, Matt Lewis, Unidentified Female Contributor

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the headline engagement between NFL star Travis Kelce and pop icon Taylor Swift, exploring its cultural significance, what it reveals about American society’s shifting attitudes toward marriage and adulthood, and its reflections and ramifications across politics, pop culture, and tradition. The hosts also tackle the recent “Cracker Barrel” branding controversy as a lens on the culture wars, and round out with analysis of current Democratic Party dynamics, particularly internal disputes about Israel and generational shifts.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Travis Kelce and Taylor Swift Engagement: A New Era?

Timestamp: 01:16 – 15:01

• Prediction Fulfilled & Celebrity Logic
  • Abe Greenwald takes a victory lap, having predicted the engagement:
    “I have predicted this engagement from the start…this type of celebrity relationship has a logic to it.” (01:34)
  • Swift’s self-narrative and Kelce’s transition from athlete to “retirement mode” mesh for a power-couple logic. (01:34–04:18)
• Celebrity Couples in Historical Context
  • Matt Lewis draws parallels to iconic sport-entertainment pairings (e.g., Monroe & DiMaggio, Halle Berry & David Justice), noting this is a time-worn formula. (05:04–06:52)
• Optimism vs. Inevitable Heartbreak
  • Matt jokes about the inevitable “Divorce Album” for Taylor, representing the narrative arc for celeb romances.
    “We are going to have to have a divorce five to ten years from now so there can be a Divorce Heartbreak album, that will be my album.” (06:06)
  • Abe counters: upbeat, “Happy Taylor Swift” yields better, more commercially viable music; expects this era will prove musically fruitful. (06:52–07:57)
• The “Marriage of Equals” Problem
  • The hosts discuss “equal” and “unequal” pairings (Tom Hanks/Rita Wilson vs. Paul Newman/Joanne Woodward vs. Jay Z/Beyoncé), and speculate on power dynamics in the Kelce-Swift union. (08:20–10:57)
  • Noting Kelce’s lucrative post-football podcasting, “the transition is uncommonly smooth.” No need to compete on the same stage. (09:58–10:57)
  • Quote: “One should not presume that what we are used to is going to happen here.” (Matt Lewis, 10:57)

2. Cultural Impact of the Engagement

Timestamp: 11:31 – 19:30

• Modern Marriage: New Data, New Happiness
  • Matt Lewis introduces a revealing YouGov survey: young married people today report much higher happiness than singles, counter to traditional social science claims. (12:06–13:39)
  • Importance of connection and relationships in an increasingly disconnected, isolated, and digitally mediated world. (13:39–15:01)
• Symbol of Traditional Revival
  • Abe sees the engagement as a “sign of the revival of traditional culture,” with marriage between high-profile, successful, “good-looking people.” (15:01)
  • Noted in the same breath as "the day we won the war against Cracker Barrel"—a tongue-in-cheek celebration of American revival and end of ‘wokeness.’ (15:01)
• Changing Landscape of Social Connection
  • Discussion of how socializing and forming connections is more difficult now (Zoom, phones, post-COVID isolation), exacerbating the need for “real-life” unions/marriages. (18:33–19:30)

3. Adulthood, Happiness, and Cultural Shifts

Timestamp: 16:31 – 27:12

• Adulting, Responsibility and Happiness
  • Seth Mandel theorizes much of reported unhappiness comes from general life progression, not marriage and parenting per se:
    “I just think there’s a progression to life that makes people…a bit more tired, a bit more responsibility, a bit more stress…” (16:58)
  • Abe references Jonathan Rauch’s work on midlife happiness curves and life’s dynamic, non-linear satisfaction. (17:30)
• Loneliness and Covid’s Acceleration
  • The era of mass singleness, COVID isolation, and the shift from substantial in-person connections to virtual, shallow (and often masked) ones.
    “Covid really blew that up…But total freedom, especially during COVID was sitting in your apartment alone.” (Seth Mandel, 19:30)
• Post-1960s Cultural Youth-centrism
  • John Podhoretz traces the shift from “growing up” as a social goal toward the pleasures and idolization of youth, freedom, and individual autonomy over familial obligation. (22:45–27:12)
  • The engagement is seen, in this context, as possibly signaling a (re)turn toward connection, commitment, and adulthood.

4. Engagement’s Political and Cultural Reverberations

Timestamp: 28:09 – 36:14

• Celebrity Influence: Are They Trendsetters or Outliers?
  • Debate over whether celebrity marriages genuinely influence the public or just serve as tabloid fodder.
    “What we think about the Roman…[men] do nothing but think about the Roman Empire…” (Matt Lewis, 31:21)
  • John Podhoretz insists: “If Taylor Swift is getting married, that makes getting married thinkable to a great many people.” (30:48)
• Generational Zeitgeist & Political Drift
  • Abe flags trend of Zoomers gravitating rightward (“breaking out Bush/Reagan 84 T-shirts”)—signaling possible interconnectedness of cultural and political change (31:50–32:55)
• Celebrity Politics Side Note
  • Discussion of Taylor Swift’s ambiguous political positioning (“Michael Jordan–style apolitical”) and brief commentary on how her choices could subtly signal or shift the culture. (33:01–34:23)

5. Cracker Barrel and the Culture War

Timestamp: 36:14 – 46:29

• The “Cracker Barrel” Logo Controversy
  • Used as a case study in how seemingly trivial branding changes become proxies for the culture war.
  • Abe: Even minor, non-woke rebrands trigger a political response because people perceive intrusion into tradition and personal space. (38:54–40:09)
  • Unidentified Female Contributor: The real story is “American people are eager to fight about anything and to politicize everything”—it’s a phenomenon amplified by media and social networks. (41:05)
• The Power & Limits of Outrage
  • Discussion on why some “fights” catch fire (Bud Light, Cracker Barrel), while others don’t.
  • Quote: “Some fights don’t catch and some fights do. And the very fact that the stock price was affected means that the fight caught in this case.” (Matt Lewis, 41:48)
  • Acknowledgement that “the slippery slope is real”—the right is learning to push back and “tilt the angle of the slope.” (Abe, 45:36)

6. Political Analysis: DNC and the State of the Democrats

Timestamp: 54:10 – 73:48

• Democrats and the “Fascism” Charge
  • Democratic rhetoric increasingly frames Trump/the GOP as fascist and authoritarian, but with little further argument beyond this assertion. (54:10)
• Israel, Gaza, and Generational Party Divides
  • Internal struggle over party resolutions on Israel/Gaza: young activists push for an arms embargo on Israel, while the establishment tries to moderate.
    “This is a huge change...there isn’t really an establishment and a base anymore…” (Seth Mandel, 60:19)
  • Seth Mandel parallels this to past DNC battles (see 2012 convention “God and Jerusalem” platform fight), noting the escalating influence and confidence of the activist “base.” (60:19–64:39)
• Democratic Leadership and Electoral Implications
  • Discussion of possible outcomes in major upcoming elections (NYC mayoral, Virginia, NJ governorships), and what these would indicate about the jockeying factions within the party. (64:53–68:11)
  • Abe identifies Biden’s primary calendar changes (boosting SC) as “unnecessary and done for selfish and identity politics reasons”—potentially backfiring. (68:11–71:21)
  • The hosts speculate about the increasing disconnect between party leadership and grassroots, exacerbated by aging leadership and health concerns. (71:21–73:48)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “I have predicted this engagement from the start…this type of celebrity relationship has a logic to it.”
  – Abe Greenwald (01:34)
• “We are going to have to have a divorce five to ten years from now so there can be a Divorce Heartbreak album, that will be my album.”
  – Matt Lewis (06:06)
• “Happy Taylor Swift is one, more commercially viable, and two, more musically satisfying than sad Taylor Swift.”
  – Abe Greenwald (06:52)
• “If Taylor Swift is getting married, that makes getting married thinkable to a great many people.”
  – John Podhoretz (30:48)
• “Covid really blew that up… total freedom, especially during COVID, was sitting in your apartment alone.”
  – Seth Mandel (19:30)
• “The American people are eager to fight about anything and to politicize everything.”
  – Unidentified Female Contributor (41:05)
• “Some fights don’t catch and some fights do. And the very fact that the stock price was affected means that the fight caught in this case.”
  – Matt Lewis (41:48)
• “The right is beginning to… tilt the angle of the [slippery] slope so that for decades, the slippery slope just ran downhill toward the left.”
  – Abe Greenwald (45:36)

Segment Timestamps

• Intro / Cast Introductions: 00:29 – 01:15
• Kelce/Swift Engagement Analysis: 01:16 – 15:01
• Marriage, Happiness & Modern Disconnection: 12:02 – 19:30
• Adulting, Cultural Shifts: 16:31 – 27:12
• Celebrity Influence / Political Drift: 28:09 – 36:14
• Cracker Barrel Culture War: 36:14 – 46:29
• Political Analysis, DNC & Democratic Party: 54:10 – 73:48

Final Thoughts

This episode deftly weaves together celebrity news, cultural analysis, and political commentary. The hosts use the Kelce-Swift engagement as a portal to discuss broader changes in social norms, the renewed importance of connection, the pitfalls and promise of contemporary marriage, and reflections on the persistence and absurdity of the American culture wars. The dynamic interplay between pop culture and politics, especially as it relates to trends among younger Americans and the growing polarization on even the smallest fronts (like Cracker Barrel), underscores how deeply interconnected every corner of the cultural landscape has become.

Listeners come away with a rich understanding not just of Swift and Kelce’s engagement, but the anxieties, hopes, and ironies that define American life in 2025.