The Commentary Magazine Podcast

Episode: The Ballroom, the Beef, and the Base

Date: October 23, 2025
Host: John Podhoretz, with Abe Greenwald, Christine Rosen, and Eli Lake

Overview

This episode critically examines three headline topics: President Trump's controversial White House ballroom renovation, the political fallout from his Argentine beef trade maneuver, and the left-populist realignment in US (and specifically New York) politics. The roundtable applies a signature blend of humor and seriousness, blending historical analogies, architectural philosophies, and trenchant analysis of political theatrics and coalition dynamics.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The White House Ballroom Renovation Controversy

• Why it’s a Frenzy: The media and political left are fixated on Trump’s demolition of the East Wing for a new ostentatious ballroom—seen by critics as a metaphor for attacks on democracy, by supporters as political trolling, and by the hosts as an ultimately superficial issue.
• Historical Context (04:16): Previous White House renovations cited (Truman’s complete gutting, Obama’s $300 million overhaul) to argue this isn’t unprecedented.
• Aesthetics vs. Symbolism:
  • John: “If you want me to take seriously the idea that Trump is threatening our democracy, the fact that he's making changes in the White House is not the way to convince me.” (06:07)
  • Christine: Argues that the left's visual culture and the lack of clear communication from Trump exacerbates the uproar.
  • Abe: Trump’s aesthetic is "old school showy—gilt gold, throw everything at it." (08:31)
• Populism & Elitism:
  • Eli draws a parallel to Andrew Jackson's rowdy inauguration and notes the recurring outrage when populists leave visible marks on the nation’s seat of government (13:18).
  • Trump’s approach is likened to trolling the establishment, deliberately aggravating elites while not truly threatening institutional norms.
• Polls & Public Indifference:
  • Christine notes efforts by political elites to stoke mass outrage fall flat, with the public largely unmoved outside the Beltway (25:43).

2. Trump’s “America First” Trade Contradictions: The Argentine Beef Policy

• Soft Power in Action:
  • The decision to buy Argentine beef is analyzed as classic presidential diplomacy—a favor to ally Javier Milei, despite potential harm to US beef producers.
  • John: “No matter who the President is, they're always going to default...to the tools of soft power to help them along the way in the world, because you can't withdraw from the world...” (31:27–34:01)
• Inconsistencies in Populism:
  • Abe: Trump has always framed trade as a stick, but here uses it as a carrot, exposing contradiction in his rhetorical stance. (34:10)
  • Consumer benefit vs. farmer support: brings down beef prices, angers traditional agricultural supporters (35:47).
  • Eli: “Trump is not ideological...he sees his job as President...like the mayor of the world,” helping useful allies when opportune (36:31).
• Political Maneuvering:
  • The roundtable argues Trump’s personalist, deal-making style mirrors old-school New York mayoral politics: transactional, pragmatic, attention-getting.

3. Realignments in the Left, NYC Politics, and the DSA

• NYC’s New Political Order:
  • Preview of a likely new mayor—a Democratic Socialist—sparks concerns about governance, radical purity, and practicality in office (38:48; 43:09).
  • Eli: The Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) are “Leninists, kind of ideologue extremists that can tolerate no compromise. They are not really a political party that is compatible with our system, which demands a kind of compromise in order to govern.” (45:09)
• Party (and Base) Pressures:
  • Internal splits in the DSA and speculation about the mayoral candidate’s ability to satisfy radicals while governing a city with enormous practical problems.
  • “The only way to build affordable housing that's actually genuinely affordable in New York is deregulation...nowhere in the [campaign].” (56:01)
• Identity & Governance:
  • Symbolic politics (renaming airports, holidays) may be deployed to placate leftist activists without legislative overreach (52:10–53:46).

4. Political Decay & Accidents

• Convoluted Hierarchy:
  • John laments how New York’s political order is the result of “blunders and accidents and mishaps...It's like duck soup...It's an embarrassment.” (60:16–61:34)
  • Successive accidental leaders and unanticipated consequences have produced a situation where practical governance is threatened by ideological zeal and demographic shifts (population exodus).

5. Notable Pop Cultural and Media References

• Architecture as Politics: Vietnam War Memorial controversy cited as emblematic of how public structures become political symbols (17:08).
• Media Personalities: The “rat czar” of NYC and shifting political appointments offer lighter moments amid the critique of New York’s crumbling politics.
• TV Recommendation: John and Christine agree—the new season of Slow Horses is a highlight, with more of Gary Oldman’s Jackson Lamb returning to center stage (64:15–65:00).

Memorable Quotes

• On the White House Changes:
  • John: “It's like the ship of Theseus, you know, like eventually the White House will not have a single nail from the original White House.” (09:30)
• On Polling and Outrage:
  • John: “If you said Trump just took in some oxygen and then he expelled CO2 in his outbreath, do you approve or disapprove?...50% would say no.” (26:40)
• On Trump’s Trade Policy:
  • Abe: “He thinks of trade as a stick... Except it's too valuable not to be used as a carrot.” (34:55)
  • Christine: “It's a juggling act, right? Who does he need to satisfy in...these midterm elections more? The farmers...or the American consumer?” (35:47)
  • Eli: “He sees his job...as kind of like the mayor of the world, because what he understands is New York politics.” (36:31)
• On DSA-style Politics:
  • Eli: “They are not really a political party that is compatible with our system, which demands a kind of compromise in order to govern.” (45:09)
• On NYC’s Dysfunction:
  • John: “The whole thing is a horror show. And it will be, you know, 10 times worse than it is even now.” (48:30)
  • Eli: “But there is a way that he can appease the radical base...just symbolic stuff. Like, I'm changing the name of, you know, LaGuardia Airport to Leonard Peltier Airport.” (52:10)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• White House Ballroom Debate: 03:12–22:02
• Architecture and Politics: 16:54–19:44
• Populist/Elite Divide—Ballroom as Metaphor: 13:17–22:02
• Media and Public Reaction: 25:43–28:34
• Argentine Beef Controversy & Trade Policy: 30:28–38:37
• NYC Mayoral Politics, DSA Tensions: 38:37–53:46
• Political Decay in NY & Leadership as Accident: 58:57–61:34
• Culture Corner: Slow Horses: 64:15–66:12

Tone & Style

The episode is highly discursive—intellectual but irreverent, often self-deprecating, blending the hosts' quirky personal tastes (architecture, historical analogies, TV commentary) with pointed political analysis. The language is razor-sharp and often satirical, with plenty of "inside baseball" on both New York and national politics.

Closing Thoughts

This installment illustrates how architectural disputes become cultural flashpoints, how populist and elite politics interact, and how even mundane governmental decisions are captured by symbolic and partisan interpretation. The team’s back-and-forth—especially on Trump’s personalist, transactional leadership style and the contradictions of “America First” trade—is especially timely for a fraught political moment in both Washington and New York.

For further listening:

• Eli Lake’s podcast: On British free speech and upcoming DSA episode (66:39)
• Slow Horses Season 5 praised: John and Christine recommend (64:15)

End of summary.