The Commentary Magazine Podcast: The Demon Mangione
Episode Release Date: December 11, 2024
Hosts:
- John Podhoretz – Editor of Commentary Magazine
- Abe Greenwald – Executive Editor
- Seth Mandel – Senior Editor
- Christine Rosen – Media Commentary Columnist
- Matthew Continetti – Washington Commentary Columnist
1. Opening Remarks and Paul Krugman's Final Column
[00:04] John Podhoretz opens the episode with a light-hearted mention of Paul Krugman’s final column in The New York Times. Abe Greenwald expresses relief at no longer having to read Krugman’s "bitter partisan screeds" after 25 years of his commentary.
- Abe Greenwald [00:22]: "Hope for the best, expect the worst."
John Podhoretz humorously references a memorable scene from the musical movie Scrooge, drawing a parallel to Krugman's departure:
- Abe Greenwald [03:18]: “I don't have to not read Paul Krugman anymore.”
The hosts collectively wish for Krugman to return to his earlier, more accessible economic writings, sparking a brief and engaging discussion on his legacy and impact.
2. The Case of Luigi Mangione: Overview and Arrest
The conversation transitions to the central topic: the capture and arrest of Luigi Mangione, a 24-year-old from an affluent Baltimore family known for owning country clubs, hospitals, and nursing homes. Mangione was apprehended at a McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania, after a botched assassination attempt on the head of United Health Care Corporation.
- John Podhoretz [05:51]: "This is our Yelp reviews."
Christine Rosen highlights the societal irony of boycotting the hostel for cooperating with law enforcement:
- Christine Rosen [07:55]: "This is a very weird sort of super online period where people go after anything they can find online by any institution connected to the story."
The panel delves into Mangione’s motivations, possible mental health issues, and the broader implications of his actions.
3. Political and Social Implications of Mangione's Act
Matthew Continetti [11:13]: Discusses the online glorification of Mangione by certain left-leaning groups, contrasting it with the mainstream media’s more nuanced portrayal that acknowledges broader systemic issues.
- Continetti [12:34]: "Most people would say, yes, they did the right thing in helping capture an assassin."
Abe Greenwald [05:39]: Expresses skepticism about attributing Mangione’s actions solely to mental health or chronic pain, suggesting deeper ideological motivations:
- Greenwald [05:39]: "Maybe if I have my Christmas wish, that's what he will do and I can go back to enjoying him again."
The discussion underscores a perceived rise in left-wing extremism and its potential to inspire similar acts of political violence.
4. Historical Context: Dostoevsky’s "The Demons"
John Podhoretz [52:34]: Introduces Fyodor Dostoevsky’s novel The Demons as a framework for understanding contemporary political violence. The panel draws parallels between the novel’s portrayal of liberal intellectuals facilitating extremist actions and current liberal responses to terrorism.
- Abe Greenwald [15:13]: “It was nihilists and anarchists. And I would say observing his behavior... suggests that he's going to use his trial as further means to portray his message.”
Christine Rosen [42:15]: Critiques how left-wing violence is often portrayed as lone-wolf incidents, lacking the interconnected scrutiny typically given to right-wing extremism.
- Rosen [41:20]: "Right wing violence. Left wing violence is always lone wolf, is always a single event."
The hosts argue that liberal jurisprudence’s focus on underlying causes can inadvertently validate violent actions, echoing historical liberal failures to condemn extremism outright.
5. Extremism: Left vs. Right Dynamics
Seth Mandel [11:13]: Asserts that left-wing political violence is a significant and growing concern, citing examples from recent years such as the George Floyd riots and attacks on political figures.
- Mandel [11:13]: "Mangione has become a hero to a certain contingent of the online left."
Abe Greenwald [37:31]: Draws attention to the Unabomber manifesto’s influence, warning against allowing philosophical justifications for violence to proliferate.
- Greenwald [37:31]: "He is a very intelligent person. That's clear. And I don't think his writing should be allowed to be published."
Matthew Continetti [62:25]: Highlights a split within the Democratic Party between mainstream politicians condemning violence and progressive voices excusing it through systemic critiques.
- Continetti [62:25]: "The people we're talking about... are saying what's important here isn't the individual's action."
The panel emphasizes the dangers of political ideologies that sympathize with or excuse violent acts as responses to systemic failures.
6. Censorship and the Legacy of the Unabomber
John Podhoretz [55:28]: Discusses the federal government’s decision to publish the Unabomber manifesto to aid in his capture, drawing lessons for handling Mangione’s potential writings from prison.
- Podhoretz [55:28]: "He's a very intelligent person. That's clear. And I don't think his writing should be allowed to be published."
Abe Greenwald [54:03]: Criticizes modern media's handling of extremist publications, warning against enabling future terrorists through irresponsible dissemination of their ideas.
- Greenwald [54:03]: "They are the evildoers, and they are demons..."
The hosts debate the ethical implications of censorship versus the public's right to information, recalling historical instances where publication choices had long-lasting impacts.
7. Concluding Thoughts: The Fragility of Civil Society
John Podhoretz [70:14]: Reflects on Dostoevsky’s insights into human nature, emphasizing that impulses do not excuse actions like murder. He underscores the importance of personal responsibility within a civilized society.
- Podhoretz [70:14]: “Ultimately, there are no excuses. Ultimately, Raskolnikov doesn't have an excuse.”
Seth Mandel [53:09]: Commends political figures who resist radical pressures, implying that their resilience is crucial for maintaining societal stability.
- Mandel [53:09]: "What makes someone like John Fetterman great... he doesn't demonstrate the flunkyism of thought."
Christine Rosen [62:25]: Critiques the tendency to over-credit ideologues, portraying them as manipulators of public fear rather than genuine thinkers.
- Rosen [62:25]: "They are not deep thinkers who have really seen the future..."
Abe Greenwald [66:53]: Highlights Mangione’s possible psychological and physical struggles, pondering whether his actions stem from deeper mental health issues or ideological extremism.
- Greenwald [66:53]: "There's this issue that perhaps this is the physical was a manifestation of deep psychiatric problems."
The episode wraps up with a call to vigilance against both left and right-wing extremisms, advocating for a balanced approach that condemns violence while addressing legitimate systemic issues without justifying criminal actions.
Notable Quotes
- Abe Greenwald [00:22]: "Hope for the best, expect the worst."
- Matthew Continetti [42:15]: "Left wing violence is always lone wolf, is always a single event."
- John Podhoretz [70:14]: “Ultimately, there are no excuses. Ultimately, Raskolnikov doesn't have an excuse.”
Conclusion
In this episode of The Commentary Magazine Podcast, the panel provides a thorough analysis of the Luigi Mangione case, situating it within broader discussions of political extremism, historical parallels, and societal responses to violence. By invoking Dostoevsky’s literary insights and reflecting on contemporary political dynamics, the hosts offer a nuanced perspective on the challenges facing modern American society in maintaining order and accountability amidst ideological fervor.