The Commentary Magazine Podcast

Episode: The Final Battle in Gaza

Date: September 16, 2025
Host: Jon Podhoretz, with Abe Greenwald, Christine Rosen, and Seth Mandel
Main Theme: The implications of Israel’s all-out ground offensive against Hamas in Gaza, the evolving narrative around Israel’s strength, American Jewish and political attitudes, and contemporary right-wing controversies following Charlie Kirk’s assassination.

Episode Overview

This episode opens with somber recognition of the intensity and gravity of Israel's conclusive military campaign against Hamas in Gaza, described as the "final battle." The hosts discuss the enduring shift in American and Jewish attitudes toward Israel’s identity—from scrappy underdog to regional powerhouse—and how this evolution shapes public discourse and alliances. The episode further explores internal American political challenges, including the aftermath and narrative battles following the assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk, tensions over antisemitism on the right, and debates about free speech versus hate speech in America.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Israel’s Ground Offensive in Gaza: “David is Goliath”

[00:57–09:08]

• Jon Podhoretz initiates discussion on the unprecedented and unambiguous Israeli military incursion into Gaza City, with a focus on urban warfare realities, hostages, and Israel’s goal to permanently dismantle Hamas:
  • “Israel has now conclusively begun an all out ground offensive in Gaza City and has said in no uncertain terms that it will reduce the city to rubble if the hostages are not released and it will destroy Hamas by doing so...” ([00:57])
• He also highlights how coverage of war casualties will contrast with previous accusations of “faked” or exaggerated images:
  • “Now they'll actually have real footage of dead and bleeding, you know, people in, in, in, in horrible circumstances, as is always the case with street warfare, tragically.” ([01:53])
• Seth Mandel (author of the magazine’s cover piece "David is Goliath") reframes Israel’s transformation, drawing on biblical and modern examples:
  • “The reason that Israel’s enemies have such trouble with it is because Israel combines the strength of, you know, a giant in the form of a nimble, you know, quick witted, you know, shepherd warrior...” ([06:33])
• Discussion around Western discomfort with Israel as a “Goliath,” and why strength is essential for survival—not just mythic heroism but enduring strategic necessity.

2. Netanyahu, Autarky, and the Athens/Super-Sparta Analogy

[09:08–15:34]

• The panel analyzes Prime Minister Netanyahu’s recent remarks about Israel pursuing “autarky,” or national self-sufficiency in defense and technology (sparking internal Israeli confusion and debate):
  • “Bibi yesterday said… We need to become an autarky. Which apparently terrified everybody in Israel who doesn’t know the meaning of the word autarky…” ([11:03])
  • “He said we need to be Athens and a super Sparta…” ([11:44])
• Christine Rosen and Jon Podhoretz note how this shift reflects lessons learned from episodes when U.S. weapons resupply was delayed, emphasizing Israel’s need for survival independent of outside aid.
• Abe Greenwald: “The fact that Israel isn’t completely self-sufficient is not because Israel couldn’t build those weapons… it makes more sense to do it this way for both countries, right. The US and Israel.” ([14:34])
• Broader implications for Israel’s psyche and American Jewish attitudes are discussed, as well as the shifting political ground in the U.S. regarding Israel.

3. Generational and Ideological Shifts in U.S. Discourse About Israel

[15:34–18:39]

• Seth Mandel details how an older generation of American liberals supported Israel “as long as it remained the underdog,” whereas newer progressives are hostile regardless of Israel’s status.
  • “It’s being replaced by a generation that doesn’t care if Israel is strong or weak. It still wants it gone.” ([15:34])
• The group discusses how international bodies (e.g., UN Human Rights Council) and current U.S. political attitudes have grown more adversarial, cementing Israel’s need for self-reliance.

4. Finality and Uncertainty in the Gaza War

[21:05–24:58]

• The hosts note that while Israel is poised to “win” the Gaza campaign militarily, the cost, timeline, and aftermath are uncertain.
  • “Israel will win. The question is what it will win and how things are going to look when it wins and how long it will take.” ([22:41])
• Christine Rosen references U.S.-Israel diplomatic alignment, especially regarding Hamas’s defeat and the fate of hostages:
  • “It sounds to me like they [U.S. and Israel] are on the exact same page on that.” ([24:08])

5. The Charlie Kirk Assassination, Right-Wing Antisemitism, and Political Schisms

[24:58–39:54]

• After summarizing developments in Gaza, the conversation pivots sharply to the assassination of Charlie Kirk, focusing on attempts by various factions to rewrite his legacy—especially regarding his support for Israel.
  • Jon Podhoretz: "The issue that seems to be the main collective focus of this group that is outside of MAGA or to the right of MAGA... is their hatred of Israel. So that's Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens..." ([25:47])
• The “woke right” is characterized as increasingly defined by antisemitic rhetoric, with fringe voices like Tucker Carlson pushing conspiracy theories that Kirk supported Israel due to secret funders.
• Christine Rosen: “He was highly critical of the antisemitism on the right. It wasn’t just that he was pro-Israel. It’s that he would point to his own side and say, this is not how we do things.” ([30:40])
• Discussion of right-wing political strategies: J.D. Vance’s attempts to tap into outsider/“fringe” political energy (e.g., collaborating with Tucker Carlson) for future Republican ambitions, and the risks inherent in empowering conspiratorial or antisemitic elements.
• Analysis of public mourning for Kirk and what it signals about political identity and the possible fragmentation or radicalization of the American right.

6. Free Speech, Hate Speech, and Cancel Culture After Charlie Kirk

[50:44–64:00]

• The fallout of Kirk’s assassination includes new debates about the limits of speech: Federal Attorney General Pam Bondi is criticized for suggesting prosecution of “hate speech” ([50:44]), which the panel notes is a clear First Amendment violation.
• Jon Podhoretz: “The Attorney General of the United States should not say, I will be prosecuting people for hate speech. Hate speech is protected by the First Amendment.” ([52:10])
• The hosts also explore the ethics of “cancel culture” versus legitimate grounds for workplace dismissal—especially for those openly endorsing political violence—using the example of Washington Post columnist Karen Attia’s firing after celebrating Kirk’s death.
• Extended discussion on workplace free speech, union protections, and the hypocrisy of those who promote censorious culture but resist personal consequences ([60:45–65:49]).

7. Cultural Epilogue: The Passing of Robert Redford

[65:53–72:17]

• The hosts conclude with a brief tribute to Robert Redford, reflecting on changing definitions of stardom and Redford’s unique place in Hollywood and American cultural memory.
  • “Redford held that position probably for 20, 25 years, and in a very interesting way... the name Robert Redford has a strange elevating valence.” ([65:53])
• Movie recommendations: Jeremiah Johnson, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, and The Sting (described as his “high water mark on screen”).
  • Noted anecdote: Redford’s failure to land “The Graduate” because "he admitted he had never been rejected by a woman," highlighting his “aloofness and exceptionality.”

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Seth Mandel: “The reason that Israel's enemies have such trouble with it is because Israel combines the strength of a giant in the form of a nimble, quick-witted, shepherd-warrior...” ([06:33])
• Jon Podhoretz: “It’s being replaced by a generation that doesn’t care if Israel is strong or weak. It still wants it gone.” ([15:34])
• Christine Rosen: “He was highly critical of the antisemitism on the right. ... He would point to his own side and say, this is not how we do things.” ([30:40])
• Jon Podhoretz: “The Attorney General, the United States should not say, I will be prosecuting people for hate speech. Hate speech is protected by the First Amendment.” ([52:10])
• Seth Mandel: “[On Redford’s Jeremiah Johnson GIF] There are an inordinate number of people who believe this is a GIF of Zach Galifianakis... Learn who it is that you're sending around, why it matters…” ([69:18])

Key Timestamps for Segments

• Opening and theme: [00:04–00:54]
• Israel’s Gaza Offensive / David is Goliath: [00:57–09:08]
• Netanyahu’s Autarky & “Super Sparta” remarks: [09:08–15:34]
• Generational Shift in U.S. Attitudes to Israel: [15:34–18:39]
• War in Gaza - Expectations and Stakes: [21:05–24:58]
• Charlie Kirk Assassination, Right-Wing Fissures, Antisemitism: [24:58–39:54]
• Populist Politics, Trump-Successor Dynamics: [36:05–39:54]
• Free Speech, Cancel Culture, Hate Speech Policies: [50:44–64:00]
• Cultural Farewell to Robert Redford: [65:53–72:17]

Memorable Moments

• Sharp rebuke of uncritical media citation of anti-Israel reports:
  “To quote from that [UN] report without qualification is like quoting Nazi propaganda. ... That is what the UN is to Israel.” (Jon Podhoretz, [02:52])

• Explaining Israel’s “super Sparta” debate:
  “He said we need to be Athens and a super Sparta. Why? Because Sparta loses to Athens... a super Sparta might win.” (Jon Podhoretz, [11:44])

• Reflection on martyrology and crisis culture:
  “It is rare in modern American history for there to be a martyr on the right... Does the martyrology lead to, we need to appeal to the better angels of our nature, or does it appeal to, we need to do to them what they’ve done to us?” (Jon Podhoretz, [52:10])

• On the American right’s current divisions:
  “Can you. Do you have to appeal to people of moderate temperament anymore? That is a highly concerning question.” (Seth Mandel, [48:58])

• On cancel culture and private employment:
  “Free speech means you can say anything you want. It doesn’t say you can say anything you want on someone else’s dime.” (Jon Podhoretz, [62:34])

Tone and Style

The episode is marked by frank, often urgent language—especially regarding Israel’s existential challenges and the “brutal” realities of the Gaza offensive. Discussion is intellectually rigorous and unsparing, with the hosts critiquing both the left and the right, challenging conventional wisdom, and bringing deep historical context to current events. Occasional flashes of humor and cultural reference (especially in the Redford segment) leaven the otherwise weighty conversation.

For Further Listening

This episode offers comprehensive analysis for listeners seeking context on the Gaza war, U.S.-Israel relations, internal U.S. political realignments (especially on the right), and the culture war dimensions of modern American life. The integration of contemporary events, historical analogy, and cultural reference makes it essential listening for anyone interested in the intersection of Middle Eastern conflict, Jewish identity, and American political transformation.