The Commentary Magazine Podcast

Episode: The Meaning of Norman Podhoretz

Date: December 17, 2025
Host: Commentary Magazine (Abe Greenwald, Christine Rosen, Eliana Johnson, John Podhoretz)

Episode Overview

This emotionally significant episode honors the life and legacy of Norman Podhoretz, the seminal editor of Commentary Magazine from 1960-1995 and a towering figure in American intellectual and Jewish life, who passed away at age 95. The co-hosts share personal reflections and professional appraisals of Podhoretz’s influence, both in their own lives and across the broader landscape of American political and cultural thought. Subsequent segments pivot to current news, including the Brown University shooting investigation and a Vanity Fair profile of Susie Wiles, providing Commentary’s trademark incisive and candid analysis.

Remembering Norman Podhoretz (00:49–18:08)

The Scope of Podhoretz's Impact

• Christine Rosen opens with a tribute, recognizing Norman Podhoretz as a “giant…at the center” of pivotal American intellectual movements:

  • New York intellectuals
  • The Jewish contribution to American life
  • Neoconservatism

• Core Courage: Rosen highlights Podhoretz’s reputation for challenging poor reasoning and motives—even among ideological allies.

  “He was my first exposure to neoconservatism… I would have to hide Norman’s brilliant writing from my liberal and leftist colleagues… He’s known for so many things, but…his framing of the post 9/11 world and what it meant for America had such an impact on me.” (04:20–06:17)

  • Cites his “World War Four” framing (West vs. Islamism post-9/11) as prescient.

Personal Memories and Intellectual Legacy

• Eliana Johnson recalls encountering Podhoretz’s work in graduate school, noting:

  • His exceptional writing skill compared to peers
  • Underrated talents as a critic (both literary and cultural)
  • Contrast between his pugnacious prose and "warm, gentle, hilariously funny" personality

  “His love of this country was so strong and so enthusiastic and so hopeful, even in times of great stress…he always spoke of ‘we’.” (07:30–09:09)

• The discussion underscores Podhoretz’s patriotism and insistence on collective national identity—not the polarized "us vs. them" that dominates today.

The Craft of Editing

• John Podhoretz explores his father’s editorial philosophy:

  • Commentary as an “editor’s magazine,” not a mere platform for writers.

  “The editor strives to make the article better and to reflect what the writer really wanted to say.” (10:35–11:13)

  • Heavy, transformative editing cited in landmark articles (e.g., Jeanne Kirkpatrick’s “Dictatorships and Double Standards,” Daniel Moynihan’s “The United States in Opposition”), which affected the course of US policy and history.

  • Willingness to labor anonymously so others receive credit.

  “To be willing and able to do work for which someone else will get the credit…was a true contribution to American history.” (13:15–13:53)

  • Podhoretz’s candor and honesty, particularly in his memoir Making It (1967), which scandalized contemporaries by pulling back the curtain on ambition in New York intellectual life.

The Arc of Opportunity

• Christine Rosen recalls Podhoretz’s oft-told story from his Yiddish-speaking Brooklyn childhood:

  “Where are you going, little boy?” ... “I’m going up the stairs”… “His life is all about ascendancy… using the opportunities granted in this country.” (15:22–16:41)

  • This anecdote becomes a metaphor for Podhoretz’s own rise—and the immigrant striving embodied in his work.

• Collective closing sentiment:
  The hosts express heartfelt condolences to the Podhoretz family and urge listeners to read current and classic Podhoretz essays to appreciate the full impact of his legacy.

Brown University Shooting Investigation & Institutional Trust (21:12–29:57)

Summary of Events & Response

• Latest Updates: New images and videos of the suspect were released, showing a masked, heavyset figure on campus from 2pm onward.

• Controversy: Brown University removed online content (writings/images) of a left-wing Palestinian student matching the suspect’s vague description, sparking suspicion.

  • Authorities and university defend this as “protecting an individual’s safety,” but the hosts criticize the move as drawing more attention and breeding mistrust.

  “My thought when I saw this from Brown… I never heard this person’s name or saw his images until Brown started pulling the web pages down. So that seemed entirely Brown University's doing and totally strange.” – John Podhoretz (22:45–23:53)

• Investigation Critique:

  • Arrest of a person whose name and image were publicized without explanation
  • Authorities offer little information on motive, targeting, or why certain actions were taken

  “It is one of those perfect storms... This is why people don’t trust institutions… The FBI has completely bungled this. Another investigation they’ve bungled.” – Eliana Johnson (25:14–26:05)

• Broader Implications:
  The incident illustrates the ongoing erosion of trust in institutions, fueled by inconsistent transparency and perceived political motivations in high-profile cases.

• Culture of Political Violence:
  Discussion connects this environment to “a new age of assassination,” with growing numbers of targeted attacks against leaders, students, professors, and corporate figures.

  “We have disturbing polls… increasing acceptance and tolerance and approval of political violence, particularly among younger Americans. That’s a change from previous generations.” – Eliana Johnson (28:06–29:07)

  • Lax institutional integrity and systemic failures contribute to this dangerous trend.

Media & Political Culture: Vanity Fair's Susie Wiles Profile (29:57–44:57)

The Wiles Profile and Its Fallout

• Vanity Fair Profile:
  The coverage of White House Chief of Staff Susie Wiles generated substantial intrigue for its candor and the exclusive access she granted.

  • Eliana Johnson takes exception to Donald Trump's response to the Rob Reiner murder, calling his comments "abhorrent" and beneath the office, finding solace that even MAGA loyalists objected. (30:04–31:38)

• Key Profile Revelations:
  Wiles granted 11 interviews, making unflattering or blunt observations:

  • On Trump: He “has the personality of an alcoholic.”
  • On J.D. Vance: A “conspiracy theorist… his support for Trump was for political convenience.”
  • On Elon Musk: “An avowed ketamine user and odd duck.”
  • On Pam Bondi: “Completely whiffed” on Epstein files.
  • On Russ Vogt: “A right-wing, absolute zealot.”

  “Did the President want her to do this? Like, are we dumb and not understanding that there’s something intentional happening here?” – John Podhoretz (35:40–36:05)

• Analysis of Intent:
  The hosts debate whether Wiles’ remarks were accidental, strategic, or a form of controlled candor.

  • Wiles is known for discretion and savvy. Some speculate deliberate signaling or inoculation against future criticisms (“getting ahead of what any disgruntled liberal reporter would write…” – Eliana Johnson, 36:38–38:10)

  “Coming in and winning in the second term meant there really were no rules or guardrails for Trump… He just does exactly what he wants. There are no limits for him.” – Eliana Johnson dispelling Wiles's remarks (38:40–39:35)

• Reinforcing—or Undermining?—the Administration's Public Image:

  • The hosts debate whether such frankness helps or hurts (41:17–42:54)
  • Wiles did not comment on Trump administration graft or financial dealings, focusing mainly on personalities.

  “Her transparency and her candor…are her superpower. When she walks in a room and Trump isn’t in that room, everyone knows she speaks for him.” – Christine Rosen (43:16–44:08)

  • On factual precision: The hosts clarify they rely on news aggregations and not all have read the Vanity Fair article due to paywall constraints; some advice on workarounds offered.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “He [Norman Podhoretz] wrote sort of page turners of ideas, which is not easy…an athletic prose style that you just…couldn’t put one of his books down.” – Christine Rosen, on Podhoretz’s writing (14:49–15:22)

• “This is why people don't trust institutions…The FBI has completely bungled this.” – Eliana Johnson, on the Brown investigation (25:14–26:05)

• “Coming in and winning in the second term meant there really were no rules or guardrails for Trump…He just doesn’t think there are rules for him.” – Eliana Johnson (38:40–39:35)

• “Her transparency and her candor, as you say…are her superpower.” – Christine Rosen (43:16–44:08)

• Final note: The episode closes with a recommendation for Norman Podhoretz's My Love Affair With America, especially poignant in the current climate, and a final expression of sympathy to the Podhoretz family (45:17).

Timestamps of Important Segments

• Norman Podhoretz Tribute: 00:49–18:08
• Brown University Shooting & Institutional Trust: 21:12–29:57
• Vanity Fair’s Susie Wiles Profile: 29:57–44:57
• Episode Wrap-up and Recommendations: 45:17–End

Tone & Takeaways

The episode balances deep reverence for Norman Podhoretz—intellectually rigorous, pugnacious yet personally warm—with the panel’s customary directness and skepticism when analyzing news cycles. The hosts express concern about eroding civic trust and political norms, ultimately reinforcing Commentary’s commitment to honest, patriotic, and unapologetically critical discussion.

For further insight:

• Read John Podhoretz’s just-published tribute on commentarymagazine.com
• Recommended: Making It, My Love Affair With America by Norman Podhoretz

End of summary.