The Commentary Magazine Podcast
Episode: The Next Great Awakening?
Date: December 10, 2025
Host: Jon Podhoretz
Panelists: Abe Greenwald, Seth Mandel, Eli Lake
Overview:
This episode delves into the prospect of a possible religious revival—"The Next Great Awakening"—in America, situating the discussion amidst cultural decay, plummeting birth rates, secularization, surges of antisemitism, and the search for meaning in a fragmented society. The panel traces cultural history from Christmas music and assimilation, to waves of American religious revivals, to the pitfalls of modern nihilism, social media addiction, conspiracy thinking, and the renewed appeal (and danger) of transcendent purpose.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Jews & The Creation of American Christmas Traditions
- Christmas’ Secular Roots & Jewish Contribution
- Eli Lake reintroduces his podcast episode about Jewish musicians’ role in “Christmas music”—“the music we hear incessantly…from pretty much Halloween until the present” [02:08].
- Eli highlights the irony of modern antisemitic complaints that Jews have "deracinated" Christmas, when the holiday has long held a secular, inclusive tinge, rooted as much in social as religious custom [03:21-05:17].
“If you’re worried about the war on Christmas, take it up with the Puritans…” -- Eli Lake [03:21]
- Inclusivity of American Christmas
- The “attack” that White Christmas and other classic songs are insufficiently religious misses that such songs foster a broad, ecumenical culture [08:02-09:30].
“What Christmas means to different sects of Christianity…these songs avoid anybody having to take a stand on the ultimate meaning of Christmas.” — Jon Podhoretz [09:30]
- The “attack” that White Christmas and other classic songs are insufficiently religious misses that such songs foster a broad, ecumenical culture [08:02-09:30].
- Cultural Myths and American Dream
- Many American myths—including Christmas pop culture and Hollywood—were created by grateful immigrant Jews, offering an “unabashedly elevating and supportive” portrait of the U.S. [11:38].
2. Was America Always a “White Christian Nation”? Revisiting Identity and Assimilation
- Complexity & Myths of “Whiteness” and “Christian Nation”
- The panel rejects right- and left-wing nostalgia for a monolithic white Christian America, citing religious wars in Europe, historical nativism against Catholics and Jews, and ongoing intra-white, intra-Christian ethnic differences in American history [13:10-18:37].
"...my grandfather, the milkman in Brooklyn was not white. If John D. Rockefeller was white, he was not whatever he was..." — Jon Podhoretz [16:21]
- The panel rejects right- and left-wing nostalgia for a monolithic white Christian America, citing religious wars in Europe, historical nativism against Catholics and Jews, and ongoing intra-white, intra-Christian ethnic differences in American history [13:10-18:37].
- World War II as Melting Pot
- The draft and WWII experience intermixed Americans as never before, serving as a social crucible [20:04].
- Sinatra as Assimilation Icon
- Frank Sinatra’s trajectory (from cultural liberal to Nixon/Reagan supporter) mirrors the path of “white ethnics,” negotiating identity, aspiration, and assimilation [24:29-25:59].
3. Secularization, Meaning, and the Prospect for a “Great Awakening”
- Decline of Christianity & Weakness in Religious Life
- America is demographically still Christian, but culturally in religious decline—panel asserts that the “weakness in Christianity is…not a weakness by others” [27:22].
"It's up to the Christians to define how Christian a nation it is. ... they're the ones who are falling away from religion." — Jon Podhoretz [27:22]
- America is demographically still Christian, but culturally in religious decline—panel asserts that the “weakness in Christianity is…not a weakness by others” [27:22].
- The Search for Meaning Amidst Nihilism
- With technology, social media, and AI threatening communal and transcendent meaning, the panel wonders if conditions are ripe for a new spiritual revival [28:47-29:45].
"If these aren't... the conditions for a fourth great awakening, I don't know that there will ever be, you know, that people cannot live without meaning." — Jon Podhoretz [29:36]
- With technology, social media, and AI threatening communal and transcendent meaning, the panel wonders if conditions are ripe for a new spiritual revival [28:47-29:45].
- Modern “Performative” Revivalism
- Abe points to a paradox: online “revivals” (tradwives, performative Christianity) often lack authentic commitment to faith or community, illustrating the difficulty of genuine renewal in the digital age [30:48-35:24].
“There is this sort of…outward manifestation of returning to faith. I'm not sure how much of an actual return to church pews we have seen yet.” — Abe Greenwald [31:03]
- Abe points to a paradox: online “revivals” (tradwives, performative Christianity) often lack authentic commitment to faith or community, illustrating the difficulty of genuine renewal in the digital age [30:48-35:24].
4. Crisis of Purpose: Futility, Conspiracy, and the Allure of Reaction
- From Revivals to Resentment
- Figures like Charlie Kirk and the “manosphere” promote restoration of meaning through family, marriage, faith—contrasted with nihilist figures (Nick Fuentes, Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson) who offer only scapegoats and grievance, especially targeting Jews [38:38-44:01].
"Fuentes and Tucker and Candace are about how there is no good future for you. Everything stinks. The Jews are doing it to you. So go kill Jews or something." — Jon Podhoretz [43:44]
- Figures like Charlie Kirk and the “manosphere” promote restoration of meaning through family, marriage, faith—contrasted with nihilist figures (Nick Fuentes, Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson) who offer only scapegoats and grievance, especially targeting Jews [38:38-44:01].
- Personal Agency vs. Conspiracy
- The embrace of conspiracy theories signals resignation of agency—panel argues that real revivalism is about empowerment, not grievance [47:27-49:19].
"When you believe in conspiracy theories, you are…acknowledging that you do not have any kind of self empowerment." — Eli Lake [48:07]
- The embrace of conspiracy theories signals resignation of agency—panel argues that real revivalism is about empowerment, not grievance [47:27-49:19].
- The Need for Transcendence
- True revivals, vs. Jordan Peterson-style self-help, must offer spiritual transcendence—not just self-improvement [50:57-51:29].
“…what was always missing from Jordan Peterson…was this lack of transcendence.” — Jon Podhoretz [50:57]
- True revivals, vs. Jordan Peterson-style self-help, must offer spiritual transcendence—not just self-improvement [50:57-51:29].
- Role of Charismatic Leaders & Communal Experience
- Revivals depend on charismatic leaders and collective, in-person experiences—challenges in today's digital, atomized society [52:16-53:16].
5. Meaning, Community, Family, and the Jewish Example
- Modern “Nones” and Loss of Transcendence
- U.S. faces unprecedented levels of irreligion; secular substitutes (politics, activism, addiction) fail to give purpose [54:24-56:42].
“…what it means to live in a world without meaning…people can’t live like this.” — Jon Podhoretz [55:29]
- U.S. faces unprecedented levels of irreligion; secular substitutes (politics, activism, addiction) fail to give purpose [54:24-56:42].
- Family Life, Birthrates, and Cultural Renewal
- The Jewish tradition’s focus on family and continuity is contrasted with Europe’s childlessness and parts of American culture hostile to large families [71:44-74:18].
“The act of having lots of children is greeted as an ideological assault on feminine and female autonomy…here in the media elite…you are doing something wrong.” — Jon Podhoretz [74:18]
- The Jewish tradition’s focus on family and continuity is contrasted with Europe’s childlessness and parts of American culture hostile to large families [71:44-74:18].
- The “Jewish Secret” & Antisemitism's Roots
- The panel discusses how Jews’ tenacity and transmission of meaning draw both admiration and resentment—“his survival smells of the devil” [65:06].
"If you want to destroy the Jewish people…marry us, allow us into all of your universities and Clubs and just love us. … The more you try to destroy us, the stronger the Jewish identity will become." — Eli Lake [64:24]
- The panel discusses how Jews’ tenacity and transmission of meaning draw both admiration and resentment—“his survival smells of the devil” [65:06].
6. Final Reflections: Will There Be a New Awakening?
- Can a New Awakening Arise?
- Despite distractions and the digital fragmentation of meaning, the hosts argue that Americans fundamentally “cannot live without meaning”—suggesting a spiritual return, whether through religion or revived community, is inevitable, if not already underway [55:29-56:42, 62:22].
“…people can’t live like this. Which is the only reason that I think that there will be a religious revival…” — Jon Podhoretz [55:29]
- Despite distractions and the digital fragmentation of meaning, the hosts argue that Americans fundamentally “cannot live without meaning”—suggesting a spiritual return, whether through religion or revived community, is inevitable, if not already underway [55:29-56:42, 62:22].
- Emulation vs. Annihilation
- The non-Jewish world, facing its own crisis of meaning, can either emulate the Jewish tradition of meaning and resilience, leave Jews alone, or seek their destruction—history warns about which path is more destructive [66:47-67:45].
- Concrete Takeaways: The Importance of Family & Community
- Whatever the form, building family and seeking communal, transcendental purpose is depicted as the only sustainable path forward.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |-----------|-------|---------| | 03:21 | “If you’re worried about the war on Christmas, take it up with the Puritans...” | Eli Lake | | 09:30 | “These songs avoid anybody having to take a stand on the ultimate meaning of Christmas.” | Jon Podhoretz | | 16:21 | “...my grandfather, the milkman in Brooklyn was not white. If John D. Rockefeller was white, he was not whatever he was..." | Jon Podhoretz | | 27:22 | "It's up to the Christians to define how Christian a nation it is. ... they're the ones who are falling away from religion." | Jon Podhoretz | | 29:36 | "If these aren't... the conditions for a fourth great awakening, I don't know that there will ever be, you know, that people cannot live without meaning." | Jon Podhoretz | | 30:58 | "There is this sort of…outward manifestation of returning to faith. I'm not sure how much of an actual return to church pews we have seen yet." | Abe Greenwald | | 43:44 | "Fuentes and Tucker and Candace are about how there is no good future for you. Everything stinks. The Jews are doing it to you. So go kill Jews or something." | Jon Podhoretz | | 48:07 | "When you believe in conspiracy theories, you are…acknowledging that you do not have any kind of self empowerment." | Eli Lake | | 50:57 | “…what was always missing from Jordan Peterson…was this lack of transcendence.” | Jon Podhoretz | | 55:29 | “…what it means to live in a world without meaning…people can’t live like this.” | Jon Podhoretz | | 64:24 | "If you want to destroy the Jewish people…marry us, allow us into all of your universities and Clubs and just love us. … The more you try to destroy us, the stronger the Jewish identity will become." | Eli Lake | | 65:06 | “…the shuddering hatred that men always feel for that which they cannot kill. The amazing vitality of the Jew is sufficient reason for believing any tale…” | Seth Mandel, quoting Ralph Philip Boas | | 70:09 | “From the eighth day of a child's life…[the child] is assigned the task of getting married and having children…and all of that…That's how central this idea is. And why is it central? Because that's the only way you go forward.” | Jon Podhoretz |
Timestamps for Key Segments
- (02:08): Christmas music and Jewish contribution
- (08:02-09:30): The ecumenical nature of Christmas traditions
- (13:10-18:37): The myth and reality of “white Christian America”
- (20:04): WWII and social integration
- (24:29): Sinatra, assimilation, and white ethnics
- (27:22-29:36): Secularization and the decline of communal meaning
- (30:58-35:24): Performative revivals and the “tradwife” phenomenon
- (38:38-44:01): Kirk vs. Fuentes: revivalism vs. grievance
- (47:27-49:19): Conspiracy, agency, and antisemitism
- (50:57-52:16): The essential role of transcendence
- (54:24-56:42): The failure of substitutes for meaning
- (65:06): The Jewish “secret” and antisemitism’s roots
- (70:09-74:18): The Jewish model of family and birthrate, contrasted with modern Europe
- (76:08): The necessity of communal gathering in revival
Tone: The episode is both sober and playful, full of historical references, personal anecdotes, and sharp-tongued debate, weaving together philosophy, history, religion, and contemporary political critique.
Recommended Reading (Humorously):
- The Bible (76:04)
Summary by [Your Summarizer] for The Commentary Magazine Podcast