The Commentary Magazine Podcast

Episode: The Podcastosphere and the Legacy Media
Date: January 7, 2026
Host: John Podhoretz (with Abe Greenwald, Seth Mandel, Christine Rosen, Eliana Johnson)

Episode Overview

This episode examines the evolving relationship between the new media landscape—specifically, the proliferation of video podcasts and substacks—and the traditional "legacy" media. The hosts discuss the Trump administration’s cultivation of its own media echo chamber, the mainstreaming of controversial voices, the fracturing within right-wing media, and the fate of established organizations such as CBS News under new leadership. Their candid conversation weaves through current political events, media transformations, public trust issues, and the implications for American democracy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Mainstreaming Fringe Voices and Vaccine Policy ([02:46]–[08:07])

• Katie Miller’s Podcast & Jenny McCarthy: John Podhoretz raises concerns about the Trump administration allowing controversial anti-vaccine activist Jenny McCarthy to be featured on Katie Miller’s podcast—Miller being the wife of senior Trump adviser Stephen Miller.
  • Podhoretz: “I am very alarmed by this effort to mainstream Jenny McCarthy... she is crazy ... a promulgator of deranged theories about her own child.” ([04:00])
• Administration Signaling: The panel discusses the implications of high-level connections blurring lines between official government messaging and fringe podcast content.
• Vaccine Policy Changes: Reference to HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s changes to the vaccine schedule and how the administration frames these decisions by referencing, for example, Denmark’s policies rather than explaining directly to the American public.
  • Christine Rosen: “We haven't seen that reassurance. What they're doing is saying this: You should be suspicious, you should believe the conspiracies. And by the way, here's Jenny McCarthy...” ([13:20])

2. The Rise of the Podcastosphere and Right-Wing Media Fracturing ([08:07]–[14:10])

• Podcasting as Power: Abe Greenwald and John Podhoretz note the phenomenon of podcasts acting as the “aftershow” to the Trump administration’s “reality show.”
  • Greenwald: “There’s also a third media ecosphere, which is actually the administration’s.” ([17:33])
• Loss of Control: Christine Rosen remarks on Trump’s inability to control the decentralized right-wing podcast-and-social-media universe. She notes that even apparently pro-Trump figures can become independent actors, potentially challenging Trump’s desired messaging.
• Structural Mirroring: Discussion of Trump allies building right-wing equivalents of mainstream platforms—including social network Truth Social, a Drudge-style .gov aggregator, and cabinet-level officials utilizing Substack.

3. Legacy Media in Crisis & The Barry Weiss Experiment at CBS ([24:03]–[39:23])

• CBS News Shakeup: The hosts analyze Barry Weiss’s attempt to revive CBS News by integrating new media sensibilities—like substacks and tough interviews—with old-school news standards.
  • Podhoretz on Mainstream Reaction: “The response from the mainstream inside is don't save us, let us drown ... we don't want you performing mouth-to-mouth resuscitation because you're gross.” ([31:52])
• Internal Resistance: Eliana Johnson and others dissect the legacy media’s hostility to change, quoting Oliver Darcy’s media newsletter: “Deep embarrassment occupied with growing alarm. A total shit show.” ([28:49])
• CBS’s Prior Failings: Discussion of old guard resistance to any attempt at genuine journalistic rigor, and the paradox that CBS is a hit network in prime time yet “stinks to high heaven” in news.
  • Eliana Johnson: “These people at CBS... are not giving you objective analysis ... They want her to fail. They are offering snide, nasty commentary, and they are rooting for failure.” ([32:36])

4. What News Organizations Actually Need ([36:20]–[39:23])

• Harder Work and Higher Standards: Abe Greenwald observes that what Barry Weiss is asking of CBS is simply more demanding—original reporting, nuanced interviews, following up on stories—not just translating administration talking points.
• Ideology vs. Journalism: Eliana Johnson, with her background in both mainstream and ideological media, notes the confusion between political commentary and unbiased reporting. CBS and similar outlets have lost sight of the distinction.
• Broadcast News as a Gamble: Christine Rosen praises Weiss’s gamble on reviving the 20th-century news format, pointing out most people now get news from social media. "If she can actually bring even a small percentage of viewers back ... that will be a huge coup.” ([38:12])

5. Collapse of Magazine and Newspaper Models ([39:23]–[43:20])

• Decline of Media Giants: John recounts his experience at Time magazine, which shrank from millions of subscribers to near irrelevance, and notes the New York Times’ digital transformation was kitchen-and-games led, not driven by news.

6. New Fractures in Right-Wing Media ([43:20]–[49:22])

• Dan Bongino’s Turn: The group discusses Dan Bongino’s public break with the most conspiratorial wing of MAGA media following his experience inside the administration.
  • Podhoretz: “He is staking his claim... ‘You people are all insane. Israel is our ally. America is a force for good. You're all conspiracy theorists, hucksters, grifters…’” ([43:22])
  • This signals new fissures and a potential “media war” among leading right-wing voices.
• Megan Kelly’s Turn: Podhoretz sharply criticizes Megyn Kelly for embracing anti-Semitic, conspiracy-driven content, going as far as to say: “I am ashamed to know you. And you should be ashamed of yourself ... It is whoredom at the best. At the worst ... you're a monster.” ([44:12])

7. The Insider-Outsider Reality Check ([44:49]–[55:46])

• Exposure to Reality: Bongino, and others like Pam Bondi and Kash Patel, upon joining the administration, realize conspiracy theories don't match government reality. This shift, the hosts suggest, could blunt some MAGA excesses—but only in certain quarters.
  • Abe Greenwald: “From the outside ... it's easy to get sucked into all this nonsense. Then he gets a glimpse from the inside and goes, oh, that's all silliness.” ([44:49])
• The Limits of Conspiracy: Christine Rosen notes that Trump—being a “deal maker”—can’t actually negotiate with hard-core conspiracy theorists or ideologues, producing instability in his coalition.

8. Real Threats vs. Paranoia ([54:11]–[60:01])

• Government Responsibility: Seth Mandel recounts AG Michael Mukasey's shock at the sheer magnitude of real daily threats. The contrast between those real dangers and conspiracy theorists’ fantasies is striking—and highlights why the administration must take actual threats seriously.
• Burden of Leadership: John Podhoretz draws an analogy to brain surgeons to illustrate the temperament required for high-stakes government roles: not intellect alone, but an ability to contain stress and persist under pressure.

9. Bringing It All Together ([60:21]–[62:59])

• Trump’s Media Dilemma: Podhoretz summarizes the tension at the heart of his second term—between taking real-world threats seriously and indulging in the old culture of conspiracy and denial. He notes Trump’s new reliance on former rivals such as Marco Rubio.
• The New Media’s Task: The hosts emphasize that, unlike legacy media, the new podcastosphere must synthesize these political, cultural, and media complexities—all at once.
  • Podhoretz: “The media actually prefer the caricature to the complication. Christine, you have a recommendation?” ([62:21])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the administration mainstreaming anti-vaccine conspiracy:
  • “Jenny McCarthy is among the worst people in the world when it comes to the question of vaccinating children... she is crazy.” —John Podhoretz ([04:00])
• On the proliferation of conservative media platforms:
  • “There's this very conscious effort to erect all these mirror image right-wing versions of mainstream products out there.” —Abe Greenwald ([17:33])
• On legacy media’s resistance to change:
  • “The response from the mainstream inside is don't save us, let us drown ... we don't want you performing mouth-to-mouth resuscitation because you're gross.” —John Podhoretz ([31:52])
• On the dynamic inside the White House:
  • “Trump is a deal maker... you cannot deal with genuinely hardcore conspiracy theorists, and you cannot really make a deal with hardcore ideology-based people. And he has both of those in his coalition right now.” —Christine Rosen ([52:51])
• On the collapse of the old media order:
  • “The collapse of the structure, the post-war structure of the American media is now ... about 75% of the way there.” —John Podhoretz ([24:03])
• On the “room of mirrors” in Trump media:
  • “You go in and you’re supposed to spin around and then find the door... That’s what Abe is describing. That’s what this sort of looks like... It becomes impossible to tell the difference between what’s real and what’s not.” —Seth Mandel ([22:30])
• On media transformation as generational:
  • “That's two generations. The collapse of an entire understanding of how to read the news.” —John Podhoretz ([39:23])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening discussion on Katie Miller & Jenny McCarthy: [02:46]
• MAGA podcastosphere and reality show analogy: [08:07]–[10:26]
• Podcasting's independence and potential for anti-Trump backlash: [10:26]–[13:20]
• Government use of Substack/unofficial channels: [12:03]
• CBS News, Barry Weiss, and legacy media resistance: [24:03]–[39:23]
• Dan Bongino’s course correction: [43:20]
• Conspiracies vs. government reality: [44:49]–[52:51]
• Actual vs. imagined threats and the “burden of leadership”: [54:11]–[60:01]
• Trump’s second term: old tensions and new alliances: [60:21]

Recommendation Segment

Christine Rosen’s Book Recommendation:
Strangers and Intimates: The Rise and Fall of Private Life by Tiffany Jenkins—a sweeping cultural history of privacy and public life. ([62:59])

Tone, Style, and Delivery

• The conversation is irreverent, sharp, and features biting humor alongside serious policy and media analysis.
• The hosts are candid about their personal perspectives and biases, openly critiquing both right- and left-wing voices in media and politics.
• The episode maintains an insider, sometimes gossipy, sometimes intellectual tone, with a keen awareness of the evolving nature of American media and its implications for politics and society.

This summary covers the core discussions, highlights notable exchanges and quotes, and structures the information for listeners seeking an in-depth overview without the extraneous material or advertisements.