The Commentary Magazine Podcast
Episode: "The Price of Chutzpah"
Date: February 11, 2026

Overview

In this episode, John Podhoretz and the Commentary Magazine panel delve into a wide range of political, intellectual, and cultural topics, focusing particularly on the controversy surrounding Israeli thinker Yoram Hazoni and his approach to nationalism, the ongoing challenges of American and Israeli policy in the Middle East, and the complexities of interpreting economic data in the current moment. They also touch on milestones in Jewish history and the ongoing discourse surrounding antisemitism. Notably, Jamie Kirchik joins as the new Washington Commentary columnist and offers sharp criticism of Hazoni’s recent speech and his intellectual trajectory.

Episode Highlights & Key Discussion Points

1. Previewing Commentary’s March Issue & New Contributions (02:13–07:05)

• John Podhoretz previews the March issue, noting several standout pieces:
  • Bret Stephens' "We Jews have the Honor of Being Hated" reflecting on fighting antisemitism.
  • David Christopher Kaufman's "Zio is the new N word," linking racial and antisemitic slurs.
  • Alan H. Rosenfeld's "The Pornography of Anti Semitism," about emotional parallels between Jew-hatred and pornography.
  • Discussion of Trump’s foreign policy realism, the US relationship with Greenland, and more.
• Welcomes new columnist Jamie Kirchik, who will later discuss Yoram Hazoni.

2. Interpreting the Economy in 2026 (07:33–16:58)

• Strong job numbers surprise commentators:
  • 133,000 jobs added in January, double expectations, despite economic anxieties about tariffs and AI.
• Podhoretz: "I don't know if economics works anymore. ... I don't think anybody has any understanding of an economy this vast, this complex." (09:03)
• Jamie Kirchik: Raises the question of how much better numbers might be without tariffs.
• Seth Mandel: Reminds listeners of the unreliability and frequent revisions of BLS data. "Cautiously optimistic about jobs is a good way to be." (12:24)
• Podhoretz critiques US economic data collection, noting outdated government tools and the country’s massive scale: "Our economy is just too big, too complicated. ... One thing is good for Texas, that would be terrible for Maine." (15:51)

3. Yoram Hazoni, Nationalism, and the Right (17:01–37:49)

Context & Jamie Kirchik’s Critique

• Podhoretz introduces Jamie Kirchik's first piece as Washington columnist, "The Chutzpah of Yoram Hazoni."
  • Hazoni led the "National Conservative Conference," pivoting from a scholarly focus on classic texts to leading a nationalist movement.
  • Hazoni has recently distanced himself from Commentary over ideological differences.

Kirchik’s Take on Hazoni’s ‘Chutzpah’

Jamie Kirchik (19:59):

• Criticizes Hazoni’s response to antisemitism on the right, especially figures like Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens: "He had really nothing negative to say about Tucker, [or] Candace Owens. All of his hatred was reserved for what he described as liberal Republicans."
• Kirchik: "It's just a very clear example of someone being unable to have any sort of self reflection ... I’m the one who screwed up here. I’m the one who thought stupidly that assembling a coalition of European style blood and soil nationalists would be good for the Jews. That was a dumb idea, Yoram." (20:28)

Hazoni’s Language and Intellectual Project

• Podhoretz (22:00): Highlights Hazoni’s complaint about "the entire antisemitism industrial complex," a phrase often used by antisemites.
• The panel discusses Hazoni’s goal of downplaying universalism in American founding ideals to make nationalism attractive—mirroring Israel’s model of a particularist Jewish state.
  • Christine Rosen (25:42): Hazoni wants to "deny the universalism of the American founding... He wants [America] to be as national [as Israel]."
  • Hazoni divides thinkers into “nationalists” (good) and “imperialists” (bad), even lumping together the European Union, Nazi Germany, and Charles Krauthammer.

Counter-Enlightenment and Intellectual Scaffolding

• Seth Mandel (26:31): Asks if Hazoni’s "counter Enlightenment" project is just intellectual cover for blood-and-soil nationalism.
• Panel consensus: Hazoni’s project serves to provide intellectual justification or “cover” for right-wing nationalist movements that have a history of antisemitism.

Chutzpah and Outsider Critiques

• Christine Rosen (30:06): Notes the chutzpah of "an Israeli Jew lecturing American Jews on whom they should be allying with politically… It’s like, you’re an Israeli citizen, you know, like, stay in your lane."
• Jamie Kirchik (30:57): "It's also the chutzpah. It's like, from our perspective, you got us into this."

Universalism vs. Particularism in Jewish Tradition

• Podhoretz (31:32–36:30): Explains how Judaism is both particularist (a people with specific obligations and a land) and universalist (the idea that all are created in God’s image), and how Hazoni’s project cuts out the universalist element vital to Jewish safety in the diaspora.

Hazoni’s Influence

• Seth Mandel (36:51): Pushes back on the idea that Hazoni is a minor figure, arguing he provides critical "intellectual cover" to more prominent anti-Semitic or nationalist figures.

• Christine Rosen (37:17): Compares Hazoni to left-wing Jews who excuse antisemitism from political comrades, dubbing him "the right wing version."

• Kirchik (37:49): "What do his friends Candace and Tucker say about American Jews and Zionists? That we don't care about America, we only care about Israel ... Isn't Yoram's project here an announcement that he couldn't care less what happens to America?"

4. US-Israel-Iran Dynamics, Trump, and Incoherent Policy (41:55–64:29)

• Netanyahu’s visit to Washington discussed in the context of mixed messaging on Iran and Israel.
  • Noah Rothman (44:00): Notes Iran publicly refuses to halt missile or nuclear programs, undermining negotiations.
  • Seth Mandel (45:58): Points out conflicting administration signals about regime change, nuclear negotiations, and military support.
• Podhoretz (47:15): Critiques Trump’s shifting Iran policies and the dangerous precedent of encouraging dissidents, then backing off: "One thing that we learned was, don't make promises to brave people ... that you can't keep, because then they just become ... cannon fodder."
• Kirchik (50:39): Argues Trump has no consistent Iran policy—"he's started vamping, improvising, and this has led him into this trap of his own making."
• Noah Rothman (57:07): Analyzes Trump’s obsession with deal-making, noting "there is no deal to be had with Iran ... or Hamas."
• Jamie Kirchik (59:07): Points out Trump made big threats to both Iranian dissidents and Hamas but failed to follow through.
• Christine Rosen: Recaps Trump's tendency toward performative, boardroom-style initiatives lacking strategic follow-through (63:12).

5. Historical Reflection: Natan Sharansky’s Release (64:29–68:19)

• Podhoretz (64:29): Tells the moving story of Natan Sharansky’s release from Soviet imprisonment 40 years ago, highlighting his defiance: "He walked serpentine ... because they told him to walk straight. And it was the last thing that a Soviet official was ever going to say to him."
• Christine Rosen (66:34): Corrects the record ("It wasn't on the tarmac … It was at the Glienicke Bridge ... The Bridge of Spies.")
• Podhoretz (66:51): Recommends Sharansky’s memoir Fear No Evil as essential reading and hopes for today's leaders to show similar moral courage.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Podhoretz (09:03): "I don't know if economics works anymore. ... I don't think anybody has any understanding of an economy this vast, this complex."
• Kirchik (20:28): "I’m the one who screwed up here. I’m the one who thought stupidly that assembling a coalition of European style blood and soil nationalists would be good for the Jews. That was a dumb idea, Yoram."
• Christine Rosen (25:42): "[Hazoni's] main plank ... is to deny the universalism of the American founding ... America is the global state. It's the apotheosis of human achievement and state making. ... He wants it to be as national [as Israel]."
• Podhoretz (31:32): "Judaism is unique ... in that it is particularist and universalist at the same time."
• Seth Mandel (36:51): "What he does is quite despicable because he provides intellectual cover to, to some very well known people who can point to him and say, look, even this Jewish guy's on our side."
• Podhoretz (47:15): "Don't make promises to brave people ... that you can't keep, because then they just become ... cannon fodder."
• Podhoretz (64:29): "Today is the 40th anniversary of one of the greatest moments in human history ... Anatoly Shachuransky, now Natan Sharansky, was released from captivity."
• Christine Rosen (66:34): "It wasn’t on the tarmac … It was at the Glienicke Bridge ... The Bridge of Spies."

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Commentary March Issue Preview: 02:13–07:05
• Economic Discussion & Job Numbers: 07:33–16:58
• Hazoni, Nationalism & Antisemitism on the Right: 17:01–37:49
• US/Israel/Iran & Trump’s Foreign Policy: 41:55–64:29
• Natan Sharansky’s Release Story: 64:29–68:19

Summary

This episode offers a rich, in-depth exploration of contemporary political dilemmas facing American Jews, the intricacies of economic data in a complex modern economy, and the enduring legacies of intellectual projects on both left and right. Jamie Kirchik’s debut as Washington columnist brings a blistering critique of Yoram Hazoni’s support for blood-and-soil nationalism, which is seen as both misguided and dangerous, especially in the current climate of rising antisemitism. The panelists stress the tension between universalism and particularism in Jewish and American identity, and the dangers of providing intellectual justification to movements historically hostile to the Jews. The conversation is framed by an ongoing sense of uncertainty—about economy, policy, and the future—but closes on a hopeful note, invoking the enduring example of human courage in the figure of Natan Sharansky.